Mark Batterson | NY Times Best-Selling Author, Pastor & Speaker of Choice for the NBA, NFL & MLB Shares About tje Power of Persistence & His New Book Gradually Then Suddenly: How to Dream Bigger & Decide Better

Audio Transcription

Transcribed with Cockatoo

(Speaker 1)
Our first year, our monthly income as a church was $2 ,000 a month, and it cost $1 ,600 to rent the school where we met. You can do that math. That is not adding up. Twenty -nine years later, we own seven properties on a 4 .7 -mile prayer circle that I prayed August 16, 1996, worth about $100 million debt -free, including a city block that we’ve now developed into what’s called the capital turnaround. If you had said any of that to me, even 10 or 20 years ago, I would have said, you’re crazy. There’s no way.

(Speaker 1)
And so what I’m getting at is, I just think he’s able to do immeasurably more than all we can ask or imagine according to his power that’s at work within us. And I think our biggest problem is our small view of God. Listen, You better operate in the spirit of humility, one of our core values. If you stay humble and stay hungry, nothing God can’t do in you or through you. You got to stay on your knees. But if you do, look out.

(Speaker 1)
God’s vision for your life, for your business, for your church, whatever it is you set your hand to, God’s vision is bigger than yours. You are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works prepared for you in advance.

(Speaker 5)
Some shows don’t need a celebrity narrator to introduce the show, but this show does. In a world filled with endless opportunities, why would two men who have built 13 multi -million dollar businesses altruistically invest five hours per day to teach you the best practice business systems and moves that you can use? Because they believe in you, and they have a lot of time on their hands. They started from the bottom, now they’re here. It’s the Thrive Time Show starring the former U .

(Speaker 20)
S.

(Speaker 4)
Small Business Administration’s Entrepreneur of the Year, Clay Clark, and the entrepreneur trapped inside an optometrist’s

(Speaker 12)
body.

(Speaker 4)
Dr. Robert Zilner, two men, eight kids co -created by two different women, 13 multimillion dollar businesses. Now we’re at the top, teaching you the systems to get what we got. Colton Dixon’s on the hoops. I break down the books. Seeds bringing some wisdom and the good roots. As the father of apps, so if you see my wife and kids, please, it’s the CNC up on your right, D -O.

(Speaker 4)
Well folks, on today’s show we’re interviewing a New York Times best -selling author who routinely speaks to professional sports teams about a concept that Pastor Jackson, to my right, Pastor Jackson, you often talk about this. You say from the pulpit often at your church, Sheridan Church, you talk about gradually, then suddenly.

(Speaker 2)
Can you explain what you mean when you talk from the pulpit about gradually then suddenly, Jackson? Oh yeah, it’s like the kingdom principle. The kingdom of God is not a microwave, which so many of us Americans, we want it to be. The kingdom of God is like an oven. And so everything is gradually, and then boom, all of a sudden, it’s ready. And so yeah, today’s going to be great.

(Speaker 1)
So if you’re watching today’s show and you want to dream bigger, you want to achieve bigger goals, you want to turn your goals into reality, I encourage you to grab a pen and a pad, and as you prepare to enter into the lab in the dojo of Mojo Fosho with our interview with Mark Batterson.

(Speaker 4)
Welcome onto The Thrive Time Show.

(Speaker 1)
Hey, I can already tell we’re going to have a ton of fun today.

(Speaker 19)
I love it.

(Speaker 1)
So first off, this new book, I’m going to pull it up on the screen so our listeners can see it. They can get a mental picture of it here. Let me pull it up real quick here. Here’s the book, Gradually Then Suddenly. I’ve also got a copy right here in the studio. What inspired you to write this book?

(Speaker 1)
What inspired you to write Gradually Then Suddenly? Well, I’m going to date myself, but we’re almost celebrating 30 years of pastoring a church here in D . C. , and I guess that means what I’m saying is I’m old. But I also believe you overestimate what you can do in a year or two, but you underestimate what God can do in 10 or 20 or 30. And we want things to happen at the speed of light, but They happen at the speed of a seed, a mustard seed, but that mustard seed can move mountains.

(Speaker 1)
And so the title actually is from an Ernest Hemingway novel. He posed the question, how did you go bankrupt? And the rather infamous reply is two ways, gradually, then suddenly, of course. That’s also how you get out of debt, how you write a book, run a marathon, start a business, fall in love, overcome an addiction, and a thousand other things. Everything happens two ways, gradually, then suddenly. Now, for anybody who wants to look up your church to verify that you do, in fact, have a real church and that you’re not just a hologram, what is the web address for your church?

(Speaker 1)
Where can people go to find that thing? Absolutely. It’s national . cc, National Community Church right on Capitol Hill. And we’ve been doing what we’ve been doing for 29 years and change. Now, Pastor Jackson, you often go up to D .

(Speaker 1)
C. You serve on the White House Faith Council group there. So I’ll let you go first here.

(Speaker 2)
What question would you have for Pastor Mark Batterson about his new book here, Gradually Then Suddenly? Yeah, yeah. So kind of you brought up the story of Ernest Hemingway, and I think that principle is so true, right? You know, people look at themselves and they wonder, how did I go from a size 32 to a size 36, right? And it was like gradually, and then all of a sudden you realize it, but the reverse is, you know, a lot of times we look at it in the negatives, but the reverse is true as well. Anything worthwhile typically doesn’t just boom.

(Speaker 2)
you know, just all of a sudden happened. In fact, I always say sudden success is like something you probably don’t want. So I’m assuming your backstory is you, did you plant this church? Is that, uh, and so it was probably a gradually then suddenly you saw God move.

(Speaker 18)
Is that, you know, what’s kind of the backstory there?

(Speaker 1)
Yes. very gradually. We started of 19 people and average first year. Uh, we, we h first easter and to be ho the moon because we had n let alone 40. Uh, and, a slow. You know, it took 19 people to 250 people.

(Speaker 1)
joy of hosting the Easter Let’s just say it’s a few more than 43 people. And we plant water, but God gives the increase and God gets the glory for it. And so almost everything I’ve done has taken longer than I would like and been harder than I hoped for. I felt called to write when I was 22, but I didn’t write a book until 35. I’ve written 25 books since then. But it took 13 years to even get to that first book.

(Speaker 1)
So I think that’s a word of encouragement. Because a lot of us, we give up on gradually, don’t we? We just, we get stuck and we quit too easily. We quit too quickly. You know, what if those Israelites had quit circling Jericho on day six? Well, nothing would have happened.

(Speaker 1)
They would have forfeited the miracle one day before it happened. Now, I want to really drill in and dial into the five concepts in the book here. I don’t want to steal all the book’s thunder. But again, folks, this is gradually, then suddenly. And I don’t want to gradually, then suddenly give the whole book away. But I’ll try to chip away at it a little bit here.

(Speaker 1)
OK, so first up in your book, you talk about the power of persistence. And I think that a lot of folks, we watch Rocky.

(Speaker 2)
Yes, I’m going to do it.

(Speaker 11)
And then the second day in the gym, OK, I’m out.

(Speaker 1)
I’m out. Let’s talk about the power of persistence. What does your book talk about as it relates to the power of persistence? Yeah, well, I share a lot of stories and studies. But one of my favorites, Rowdy Gaines won the gold medal 100 meter freestyle in the Olympic Games 84. And I love what he shared.

(Speaker 1)
He said, I swam 20 ,000 miles and just newsflash. That’s one lap around the entire planet. He said, I swam 20 ,000 miles for a race that lasted less than one minute. So here’s the thing. All of us would love a gold medal, but are we willing to put on a Speedo, jump into a freezing cold pool at the crack of dawn and swim laps for, in his case, eight years because we boycotted Moscow. That’s where I think it’s going to take blood, sweat, and tears, and years.

(Speaker 1)
And I think we have to not just pray like it depends on God, we have to work like it depends on us. And so persistence is just, man, there’s no quit in grit. You literally keep on keeping on. It’s the Apostle Paul. I have fought the good fight. I have run the race, having done all to stand firm.

(Speaker 1)
It’s this idea of just, you got to keep on keeping on. Now, cathedral thinking in your book, you talk about cathedral thinking, Jackson at Sheridan Church, you’re renovating your building.

(Speaker 2)
Are you in the process of building a cathedral over there at Sheridan Church? Well, we took a nightclub and we turned it into a church. I guess you could call it that. So I mean, you know, but it is a clay, as you know, it’s been a gradual process. And then suddenly, though, it’s like, oh, this is no longer a nightclub.

(Speaker 1)
It’s a church, but it took time. So what is this cathedral thinking that you speak of in your book? Tell us, what is cathedral thinking? Well, it’s thinking long. So the Cologne Cathedral is a great example of cathedral thinking. I mean, 600 years, they started building that thing in the 13th century.

(Speaker 1)
And most of us, we’re just aiming at 15 minutes of fame. We have a hard time of thinking about anything two years or five years or 10 years out. Cathedral thinking is this ability to think beyond your lifetime, because here’s the reality. We drink from wells we didn’t dig. We eat from fields we didn’t plant. We live in houses we didn’t build.

(Speaker 1)
It’s our job to then return that favor. It’s doing what we do, I think, to the third and fourth generation. Pastor Jackson, I’m gonna go back to you for a follow -up question for, again, Pastor Mark Batterson. The book here, folks, is called Gradually, Then Suddenly.

(Speaker 4)
And over the course of this interview, I’m gonna gradually, then suddenly just take all the content of the book out and give it to you.

(Speaker 17)
But you should still buy the book.

(Speaker 2)
Here we go. Quick question for you. How do you get people, because you’re pastoring, so you’re dealing with people, and so much of it is a mindset, right? It’s mindset. And I don’t think our American culture necessarily helps in this type of mindset.

(Speaker 18)
How do you help people break through the mindset of like instant gratification and to the perspective of what you’re talking about, cathedral -like thinking?

(Speaker 1)
Yeah. Well, part of our theology of the city is we’re not just trying to build a church. We’re trying to bless a city to the third and fourth generation. And the city happens to be the nation’s capital. And it really comes from Jeremiah 29. Now, we love verse 11.

(Speaker 1)
I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you, not to harm you, give you a hope and a future. But a few verses before that, there was a false prophet, Hananiah, who said, you’re only going to be in captivity two years. And Jeremiah said, no, you’re going to be there 70 years. Well, what’s the big deal? Well, if you have a two -year mindset, you’re not even going to unpack your suitcase. You’re going to rent the city.

(Speaker 1)
But Jeremiah says, no, you’re going to be there 70 years. He said, plant gardens, build houses. In other words, do things for that third and fourth generation. And so I think this mindset of Like, we got to kneel down so the next generation can stand on our shoulders. This is a relay race. And in a culture where things happen at the speed of light, it’s really hard to have that kind of patience.

(Speaker 1)
But last time I checked, patience was one of the fruit of the spirit. And it’s one of the harder ones to grow, I think. Now in your book, you talk about the compound effect, the compound effect. Again, if you’re watching this today, folks, and you’re trying to grow a business, you’re trying to grow a family, you’re trying to grow a church, you’re trying to grow an organization. Eventually you want to get that compounding effect. You grow from two customers.

(Speaker 1)
Maybe those two happy customers tell two more people. Now you got four. Now those four customers tell people maybe you’re at 16 or eight. Talk about the compound effect. What does your book teach readers about the compound effect? Well, I’ll just, you know, I’ll put it in these terms.

(Speaker 1)
Um, last time I checked five plus two equals seven in your hands. But if you take your five loaves and 2 fish, put them in the hands of Jesus, it doesn’t add up anymore. Now it multiplies. 5 plus 2, if my math is right, equals 5 ,000 remainder 12. I mean, this little boy just gave what he had, and in God’s hands, he can compound double it.

(Speaker 1)
He can exponentially do something with it. If we do little things like they’re big things, God has a way of doing big things like they’re little things. So part of it is, man, I’m going to live by the law of measures. Given it will be given unto you a good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be poured into your lap, or with the measure you use, it will be measured unto you. This is a little bit of a sidebar, but I’m a guy that happens to believe God can do more with 90 % than I can do with 100%. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and the compound effect is not just monetary or financial.

(Speaker 1)
It’s long obedience in the same direction. And that is what I think we’ve got to recapture in our generation. A guy named Eugene Peterson wrote a book by that title. And I think that idea has fallen out of favor a little bit, especially in the day and age of social media, because I think things just happen in real time all the time. I think this is about playing the long game and living for the applause of nail -scarred hands, living for those words, well done, good and faithful servant. It’s about living for eternity, not just time.

(Speaker 1)
Now, Mark, you have been asked to be the keynote speaker of choice for professional sports teams.

(Speaker 17)
And Jackson, I’m not sure if you’re familiar, but there’s a pro sport called slap.

(Speaker 2)
Oh, yeah.

(Speaker 1)
Yeah, I’ve seen some of those videos. There’s also professional curling, where you’re pushing an object down the ice and you buffer it. Oh, yeah. You’re buffering, you know, uh, there’s a lot of pro sports out there that are pretty obscure, right? There’s a lot of them. So, uh, Mark, what kind of professional sports teams have reached out to you?

(Speaker 1)
Is it primarily the slap teams or what teams have reached out to you? That is, listen, I’m a turn -the -other -cheek guy. I don’t do the slap stuff, in all seriousness. For whatever reason, NBA, NFL, MLB. Like, I love two things. I love Jesus and I love sports.

(Speaker 1)
And I kind of like it when those two things come together. So, you know, when you write a book, and I really mean this, when you write a book, people think you know more than you do, and you really don’t. But you start getting invitations to speak at training camps or chapels before games. And you know what I’ve learned? Yes. An NFL chapel, for example, very large men.

(Speaker 1)
It can be a little intimidating. preaching to that particular group. But the truth is, all of us are trying to make sense of our faith. All of us are trying to figure out the meaning of life. And the truth is, I don’t think God just wants to anoint preachers in a pulpit. I think he can anoint quarterbacks in a huddle and everything in between.

(Speaker 1)
So I think it’s just about applying biblical principles to our Monday to Friday, whatever that is, whatever anybody does that’s listening right now. It’s whether you’re a professional athlete, musician, artist, whatever, um, it’s cultivating that gradually then suddenly mindset. It’s, it’s just getting better. 1 % every day playing the long game. Uh, Jackson, uh, you, you’re a guy who also likes professional basketball, professional baseball. I want to show you guys what you’re missing out on.

(Speaker 1)
This right here is power slap. There’s 208 ,000 people on rumble . com that go up there and they watch.

(Speaker 15)
this and it’s, it’s two, this guy, he just slapping that guy. And

(Speaker 1)
And I know Pastor Jack is a little unfair. He’s huge. Pastor Jack, you’ve never referenced this. Over the years I’ve known you, you’ve never said, I’m going to go watch power slapping. And Mark over here, I mean, he’s settling for being a New York Times bestselling author and working with professional baseball and basketball players.

(Speaker 16)
He’s missing the mark here.

(Speaker 1)
Maybe you want to educate him about the potentials of power slapping. Have you thought about that? I mean, you know, the slap team, they need Jesus as well. Well, yep. I mean, Jackson, you love pro sports. What is it that attracts you as a pastor to looking at professional sports?

(Speaker 1)
You’re a competitive guy. What is the draws you to that? Oh my goodness. There’s the team aspect. There’s the, uh, long haul aspect. It’s, you know, there’s leading up to what we, we see the glory side of things, but you know, being an athlete, you know, that it’s the ordinary stuff that day in that everyone wants to be LeBron James or Kobe Bryant or whoever, but they don’t realize all the ordinary day in day out grind that it takes for that, you know, 12 minute quarter, four quarters, 48 minutes of basketball.

(Speaker 1)
And so, but that’s life, isn’t it? We want to do the glory stuff, but that comes after you do the ordinary stuff continually. And so, you know, to your point, it’s just so true. Mark, if you’re, if someone’s watching this right now and they say, okay, I, uh, Clay, I’m pretty excited about power slap. I’m going to go watch that for a few hours and then I’m going to go get the book here. If someone says, I’m thinking about getting the book or I’m thinking about, you know, go into the convenience store and they always like to say the convenience store, would you like anything else?

(Speaker 1)
And so instead of buying like a regrettable burrito or supersizing something, you know, you’re talking about $25 ish to buy the book here. Why should somebody buy the book gradually, then suddenly, or maybe what’s the value somebody gets at a gradually then suddenly versus that of a regrettable burrito impulse purchase at a gas station? Well, I think your question answered itself. Those burritos are regrettable. But I would say this.

(Speaker 1)
You know, as someone who has led a church for almost 30 years, written 25 books, and I mean, I just biked a century with my son -in -law because I like staying in shape, like doing things that kind of challenge me or push me, played basketball in college. So sports is a big part of my background. I just know that whatever it is that you’re doing, you need constant encouragement. I’m a little tired of the shortcuts and cheat codes because they don’t work. No one gets a 20 % discount on the 10 ,000 hour rule. So what I would encourage people, I think people want to be great.

(Speaker 1)
want to be great at parent or a great communicator o it really doesn’t matter. the same. And so really t a simple equation, long v which is really lacking these days. Long vision times long obedience equals long legacy. And legacy is not what you accomplish. Legacy is what others accomplish because of you.

(Speaker 1)
And so it’s a book that’s going to aim people, I think, towards a life of impact that is going to make their lives a lot more meaningful in the long run. Now, you write your book about the law of requisite variety. uh yeah variety this idea that okay you’re going to be diligent consistent application of effort over time but we need a little variety in there to keep people engaged. Tell us what the book teaches about requisite variety. Yeah, it’s a fun, it’s a fun principle from physiology that if you go to the gym and you work out the same way, same sequence, same exercise, same reps, it will lose effectiveness because your body will adapt to that routine.

(Speaker 1)
So once a routine becomes routine, you have to change the routine. And this is what great trainers do, right? They uh instead of instead of b pressing, they’ll put some you got to lift up and th Variety is not just the spice of life. Variety is what forces our body to continually adapt. And that’s why every year I try to have a challenge and an adventure. So it might be hiking the Grand Canyon rim to rim.

(Speaker 1)
It might be a bike century like I mentioned, but something that kind of gets me out of my routine. In fact, I try to read the Bible cover to cover every year with the help of a Bible reading plan, but I change translations. So I might go from an NIV to a Shakespearean King James Version to an Amplified Bible, because what I’m trying to do is almost confuse my mind the way you have to confuse your muscles so that you can’t maintain the status quo.

(Speaker 2)
So that law of requisite variety, leadership starts with self -leadership, and great leaders are great at that law of requisite variety. Pastor Jackson, back to you for a follow -up question. Oh, that was so good, though, because even as a preacher, right, sometimes you can just get in the routine of what you’re preaching or you’re teaching, and then you just get so accustomed to it that you actually kind of get a little, and it’s not boring, but you can get a little bored to it. And if you are, what is your audience? And so, uh, what a great principle.

(Speaker 2)
So a question for you in regards to say, somebody is a business owner or wanting to launch a business or running their family or whatever, how do they come up with ways to add in that type of variety? Is it something personal that, like you said, go to the Grand Canyon?

(Speaker 1)
What does that mean? look like in regards to leading a business organization family? Yeah. Well, if you’re leading something, it’s hard because you get into the day to day stuff and your email, your meetings. If you aren’t careful, you never elevate to 30 ,000 feet. and see the big picture.

(Speaker 1)
It’s kind of like the old analogy of some people are so busy climbing the ladder of success, they fail to realize it’s leaning against the wrong wall. And so I think leaders have a way of just continuing to ideate. I always have three or four books in my reading rotation, and it might be a science, it might be a history, it might be a biography. I’m a guy that believes all truth is God’s truth. Everyology is a branch of theology. So I always want new inputs into the system.

(Speaker 1)
But here’s one fun little equation, and I’ve practiced this for years. Change of pace plus change of place equals change of perspective. And so what you have to do is change your pace. I think that’s called the Sabbath. Once a week, really good idea to unplug and obey, by the way, what is the longest of the Ten Commandments. And then change of place is just, What your brain thinks in part depends on where your butt sits.

(Speaker 1)
And so what you need to do is get out of your normal routines and then you can kind of begin to have that different perspective. And so I think, I think great leaders are really good at that equation. Now, folks, for anybody out there who says, please tell me more about power slap. Well, folks, you go to rumble and you look up power slap, that’s going to change your, imagine you could be, we could be one of the five or six fans that’s at these events.

(Speaker 2)
And you can be there and you can watch people competing for dozens of dollars.

(Speaker 1)
You can change your space, your place.

(Speaker 2)
You’re going to view the world differently.

(Speaker 1)
Do they sell tickets to this? Once you get slapped, you’re going to look at the world differently. That is true. That’s something that is true. That’s something that I am. I’m just getting that out there.

(Speaker 1)
Now, in the final five minutes, we have you here again, gradually, then suddenly. You’re a New York Times bestselling author. Esther Federkevich, a great, great friend of mine. Esther speaks super highly of you. Tim Tebow. comes to our business workshops.

(Speaker 1)
So a lot of people that I know, know you. And so I’m trying to introduce our listeners to you. I’ve known you from afar. What is it that on this interview that maybe I did not ask you, but you’re going, man, I want to communicate that to the Thrive Time audience. Is there any message that’s on your heart right now where you’re going, if this guy was a decent interviewer, he would have asked me this. Is there any question you want to really get out there to the people?

(Speaker 1)
Oh, man. Well, I love that. You just kind of put the ball on the tee for me, didn’t you? I would say that, listen, almost anyone can accomplish almost anything if they work at it long enough, hard enough and smart enough. I really believe that. If you’re 5 ‘3″, the chances of playing in the NBA are stacked against you. But don’t tell me it can’t be done. Muggsy Bogues did it, and I think he had 146 double -doubles and 39 blocked shots at 5 ‘3″, over 14 seasons in the NBA.

(Speaker 1)
So what I’m getting at is, God doesn’t just call the qualified, He qualifies the called. He wants to help you do what you do beyond your ability. I think His anointing is the X Factor, the It Factor, and so I’m a guy that Without the Holy Spirit, below average. With the Holy Spirit, game on, let’s go. The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in us and I think wants to help us do whatever it is we do. For me, writing books is not a natural gifting.

(Speaker 1)
I probably shouldn’t even come on this podcast and say that, should I? But I read 3 ,000 books before I wrote one. gradually, then suddenly had to really put in the effort. So no one can shortcut or cheat code the process, but don’t be discouraged. You know, it’s going to take longer than you like, but I think he began a good work really good at carrying it to completion. Now, folks, we have interviewed Muggsy Bogues here on The Thrive Time Show.

(Speaker 1)
That is a true statement. We’ve interviewed Muggsy. For anybody out there, if somebody out there says, Clay, I can’t stop thinking about Power Slap, but I want you to stop it just for a second. You want to look up Muggsy Bogues and then The Thrive Time Show. And we interviewed Muggsy. There he is.

(Speaker 1)
Small beginnings and a big success with Muggsy Bogues. We interviewed him years ago. Great guest. Power Slap. Don’t know a lot about it, but we’ll move on. Pastor Jackson, you’ve got the final question here, sir.

(Speaker 1)
What gave you the, we’ll call it inspiration idea, to write this book? Was it looking out at the world that we live in and realizing this is for such a time as this? What was the motivating factor to get this out? Well, I think it does have a lot to do for such a time as this, such a place as this. But I think as we were approaching 30 years into this, our first year, our monthly income as a church was $2 ,000 a month and it cost $1 ,600 to rent the school where we met.

(Speaker 1)
You can do that math. That is not adding up. 29 years later. We own seven properties on a 4 .7 mile prayer circle that I prayed August 16, 1996, worth about $100 million debt -free, including a city block that we’ve now developed into what’s called the capital turnaround. If you had said any of that to me, even 10 or 20 years ago, I would have said, you’re crazy. There’s no way.

(Speaker 1)
And so what I’m getting at is, I just think He’s able to do immeasurably more than all we can ask or imagine according to His power that’s at work within us. And I think our biggest problem is our small view of God. Listen. You better operate in a spirit of humility, one of our core values. If you stay humble and stay hungry, nothing God can’t do in you or through you. You’ve got to stay on your knees.

(Speaker 1)
But if you do, look out. God’s vision for your life, for your business, for your church, whatever it is you set your hand to, God’s vision is bigger than yours. You are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, prepared for you in advance. That’s kind of what’s in my heart that this book is a little bit of. It’s kind of the a little infusion to keep on keeping on. Don’t give up on it unless God’s released you from it.

(Speaker 1)
And if he hasn’t, it’s never too little and it’s never too late. Folks, let me pull this up real quick here. Someone says, please tell me where I can watch Power Slap. Okay, it’s rumble . com. Look for Power Slap.

(Speaker 1)
Someone says, what’s Mark’s website? It’s markbatterson . com. Someone says, please shamelessly plug your Mugsy Bogues interview. Okay, I’ll do that. There it is.

(Speaker 1)
And then you got the book here, Gradually Then Suddenly.

(Speaker 11)
That’s where you go.

(Speaker 15)
I could not be more excited for everybody out there to check out the book, Gradually

(Speaker 1)
Then Suddenly, How to Dream Bigger, Decide Better, and Leave a Lasting Legacy. Folks, buy the book, buy the book now, and then you got Christmas coming up. Yeah. Buy the book for you. Buy the book for someone who’s not you. Buy it for me, we, everybody.

(Speaker 1)
Get the book. Don’t get left out in the cold this holiday season. Get the book.

(Speaker 14)
Gradually, then suddenly.

(Speaker 1)
Mark Batterson, we really do appreciate you joining us here on The Thrive Time Show. We encourage everyone to check out national . cc.

(Speaker 3)
You’re a great American.

(Speaker 10)
Thank you for being here.

(Speaker 13)
Hey, thanks so much.

(Speaker 9)
And we did design the book so it fits in every stocking and chimney.

(Speaker 3)
Just putting that out there. Awesome. character. It’s a good word for character. Yeah, that is it. Good, driven, smart.

(Speaker 3)
And I’ve never met a guy who was so hyper all the time. He’s doing so much good. And then I met his mother.

(Speaker 13)
And she just says, she just lets him be Clay Clark.

(Speaker 10)
I mean, so he’s endorsed by his mother. And he’s doing magnificent work.

(Speaker 1)
So it was great meeting you out there and all the people that he surrounds himself with.

(Speaker 12)
His client Clark starts his days at five o ‘clock in the morning.

(Speaker 3)
Oh, it’s incredible. Yeah. He’s, he’s like, he’s, he’s a machine.

(Speaker 11)
He’s a machine, but his, you know, I could, I have problems with my company starting at nine o ‘clock.

(Speaker 10)
Yes.

(Speaker 9)
Hundreds of people showing up at 5.

(Speaker 6)
In Tulsa, Oklahoma, man, he’s a leader of a leader. He’s fantastic. Yeah, man. No, he is.

(Speaker 8)
You could be anywhere doing a lot of different things, but you chose to be here.

(Speaker 7)
I met his goats today.

(Speaker 6)
I met his dogs. I met his chickens. I saw his compound. He’s like the greatest guy. I ran from his goats, his chickens, his dogs. So this guy’s like the greatest marketer you’ve ever seen, right?

His entire life, Clay Clark, his entire life is marketing.

Transcribed with Cockatoo