In Part 2 of this series about Bill Campbell (business coach for Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, etc) Clay and Dr. Z break down his principles in the new book about him called Trillion Dollar Coach: The Leadership Playbook of Silicon Valley’s Bill Campbell.
On today’s show, we break down the life and times of the world’s best business coach. Bill Campbell, who’s Bill Campbell? Well, Bill Campbell is the subject of the new book called trillion dollar coach. Yes, that’s right. Trillion dollar coach. The leadership playbook of Silicone Valley’s Bill Campbell, written by Eric Schmidt, Jonathan Rosenberg, and Alan Eagle. You might be asking, well, who are some of Bill Campbell’s coaching clients? Well, Bill Campbell was the business coach of choice for Jeff Bezos, the founder of a little company called Amazon Steve Jobs, the founder of that little startup called Apple. Sheryl Sandberg, the COO of Facebook, Eric Schmidt, the CEO of Google, Larry Page, and Sergey Brin, the cofounders of Google and many other top companies and combined the companies that Bill Campbell coached grew into eight $2 trillion valuation. That’s right, folks. He is the trillion dollar business coach. His life and times are documented in the book trillion dollar coach. His name is none other than Bill Campbell.
Yes, yes, yes and yes. Thrive nation. Welcome back to other exciting edition of the thrive time show on your radio and podcast downloads and Dr Z. Before we get into the life and times of Bill Campbell, the world’s best business coach, a man who coached, I don’t know, Steve Jobs with apple, Sheryl Sandberg with Facebook. Eric Schmidt of Google, Jeff Bezos of Amazon. I just want to start by asking you the tough questions. Okay. When was the last time you used Google? Uh, this morning. Really? Yeah. What was the last time you used Amazon? Oh, it’s probably been within the last month. What was the last time you went on the, uh, bookface Facebook? I don’t do, I don’t do Facebook. No. Okay. Ever had it at Facebook? Well, apparently he’s not doing very well as a coach because you’re not using all the products that he’s, Oh, wow. Have you used a youtube in the last day or two? I used you to buy last week. So think about this. $2 trillion of market value. 2 million. That’s crazy, bro. Facebook, Google, Amazon, all of these got all of the heads of all these companies all said tip number one, to be able to successful company, you need to hire a coach. All of them, all of them. And Bill Campbell
unfortunately passed away recently. And so Eric Schmidt, the CEO of Google, the former CEO of Google, has decided to write a book called trillion dollar coach. I’ve got it pulled up in front of you, a trillion dollar coach train and our coach.com you gotta get the book Trillion Dollar Coach right now where he interviews the 80 people that were coached directly by Bill Campbell and Z. Bill Campbell had a rule, has had rule number one of coaching when he was first rule. Yes. It says he’s, his rule was this, I don’t take stock, I don’t take cash and I don’t take that rhymes with a ship kind of. Oh, okay. Yeah. So like a hit with a little bit more to it I’d like to ask you is I’d like to dig deep into your principles and get your take on the bill Campbell principles. Okay. So, uh, let’s go with the principle number one from Bill Campbell.
I’d like to get your take as to what this means to you. Okay. Here we go. Principle number one from Bill Campbell, the world’s best business coach. A lot of pressure. I’ve got a wiser buffets. Can you handle it? You handle it. Hard. Act to follow. Harness energy. Wow. Okay. Prince will number one. Okay. No, that great products drive success. Everything else is just a supporting function. Oh, that’s very deep. That’s very good though. Um, and that is why, that’s why it’s so funny when someone comes at once started your business like, what are you going to sell? What are you gonna do? And they have some, and you’re like, dude, do you think people want that? Okay. So here’s an example. This is Bill Campbell himself. I’m quoting Bill Campbell. He says, first of all, I really don’t take a company as a client unless the founder is passionate and really wants to create something durable, Aka that’s going to last over time, something that’s resistant to recession, that kind of thing.
He says once you can get the founder and the CEO, you just have to find out what makes them tick. You’re trying to understand what they want to get out of their management team and then you try to spend time with their team and put processes in place. But I’m not going to tell Larry Page or Sergey brin how to create Google search engine algorithms. I just take what they want to do and bring it to life. So let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about that. Larry and Sergei had a company called backrub that a, it stated purpose was to download an index the entire Internet and they hadn’t made any money from 96 to 1999 is that shocking to you that a company called backrub that isn’t a stated purpose is to download the Internet has not made a profit for three the first three years.
I know it, that’s not shocking at all. I figured it would be an online, you know, like order of maybe massage chairs or something, you know that back rub. So in the book Trillion Dollar coach ended in the book, you’re gonna be able to read these stories, but a legend has it did Eric Schmidt and Bill Campbell pointed out like, hey, we’re probably going to monetize this at some point. Yeah. Cause so God’s getting smaller and smaller. So I’m going to pull, I’m going to Google search, the word mortgage is real quick. Tulsa mortgages. And I want to get your take on this to see what your, What Your Business coaching advice would be to Larry and Sergei. Okay. Okay. So these guys, they have a site to download the entire Internet. It’s called Google now. You can find the things you’re searching for and it’s 100% free. And these guys point out like, you know, uh, Bill Campbell or uh, Eric Schmidt point out guys, you know, we’re not really making any money if it’s free
and to think about that and they’re going, cause I read the book called how Google works. And so apparently they pointed out, hey, um, we don’t want to charge people for and want to put ads on our site because it makes it look cluttered. Right? And you know, Schmidt points out, you guys are going to have to put ads on the site, right? You’re like, yeah, when you’re like, no, the purity of the site we cannot put out. So he said, can you agree to at least put a third of the site, you know, make it available for ads like ad words or do we need to shut the whole thing down? Ooh, Jeez.
And then they’re like, well, hey, well, hey, well you know,
and the same thing happened with Facebook. You know, Zuckerberg didn’t want to put in ads. St Z wide entrepreneurs. Why do we, why? Because you’re an entrepreneur and I’m an entrepreneur. Why don’t get hung up on things that don’t matter?
Well, because it’s, you’re very person. It’s a baby. It’s a, it’s like a child to you. It’s a creation. It’s yours. You, you had a vision for it. So you get hung up on things that you think are a big deal because you made him a big deal because this is your creation, this is your baby.
What’s something that you’ve got hung up on early on in your career? When you go back and coach your younger self where you’re like young doctor Zellner I know something related to your product where maybe it was just a stupid idea but you just couldn’t let it go. Like maybe, maybe you were trying to share a cell blue blockers that you found at the state fair and your optometry clinic or was there a certain brand that you just, we know it wouldn’t sell but you wouldn’t give up on it. Is there anything that you did as related to your product or service that just didn’t make sense? Because I’m going to share an example that I have. I have many, but no, you go first cause I’m, I’m trying to find a funny one. Okay. All right. By the way, by the way, I have to have you move the vehicle.
Apparently there’s a shipment of stones being delivered. Oh, okay. So I need to move the Hummer. So you need to move the Hummer I guess move the hotline. I think it’s the kids were in my bag or upstairs on the desk there. So with the DJ business, what I found was that when I DJ parties, people have Karaoke. Oh yeah. And they would say, can we have karaoke? And I’m going, I’m at bars, clubs, they all want to Karaoke. So I remember talking to the guys and I’m like, guys, we need to introduce karaoke to weddings now. Z could you maybe give me an opinion as to why your thoughts as to why it is a hard fact that karaoke and weddings don’t go together because you have alcohol.
Ah, there it is. And there you have alcohol, number one, which by itself and then you also have someone, someone is paying for the party, somebody wants a certain feel to the party. So it’s not like a random bar where you can go in. Yeah, there’s alcohol there too and whatnot, whatnot. But they can control the whole vibe. Yeah. Then what the whole vibe control, they don’t want someone, so I went out there but
not one karaoke system like 30 oh no, for everything. You know, like 40 grand of Karaoke system and a, I remember the first wedding I was at and this lady’s like, can I, can I come up and sing? She’s flipping through the book, having a big old blast. The blast of a dance party, Ben, she gets up, says I want to sing this song. So it’s like [inaudible] seven so I flipped it as 37 whatever. I find the song I loaded in, boom, boom, and it’s
hello ways and everyone’s like, oh, make her stop. Oh No. And then she’s like, everyone’s great aunt Matilda, whatever. Cray. Yeah. And then she says, I want to nail it. The second time she comes back after getting her liquid courage up. Oh, she comes back, I’m going to nail it. We run it up real quick. Can we run it back? Yeah. Like if you play basketball and you lose, you run it back. You read it back. She’s like, can we run a back going? Ah, no, we just going to want one per person. Just I want to run it back. So her rides like since my aunt, I mean we freaking gotta let her run it back. So this woman begins to become like the showcase of why Karaoke is not allowed at weddings. The poster child for say no to Karaoke move, but I wouldn’t let it go.
Was there something in your business where you just wouldn’t let it go and you knew and you, you’ve later on you’d go, I should have let that go earlier. I’m trying to remember. Oh, get out of here. Come on. I’m trying to remember really a real funny one. I’ll tell you what, epic, I didn’t really have it for all examples of Jeff for all, for examples of jackass three we turned exclusively to me, America’s third, seventh, 18th best business coach, I bills number one. Chet Holmes is number two. I’m in the top 30 top thing. I think that’s why I’m an effective coach. Those I made so many stupid mistakes. My own company and I share with you when they go, that’s dumb. That’s dumb. But they learned from it. It’s easier. It’s better to learn from a mentor than mistakes where it is. But did that mentors probably made the mistakes. Someone somehow somewhere is making a mistake and learning from it. Hopefully they’re learning from it. You know? Now we come back, we’re going to talk about principle number two. We’re going to take a a 62nd stretch break, stretch to get ourselves emotionally and mentally prepared. Hammy lose. And then we’re not talking about the fun story when we come back. Okay? And because of the magic of editing, we’re going to interview a Devan Kline, the founder of burn bootcamp. Oh, they were going to come back within 10 seconds. Burn baby burn and we’ll be right back.
Z. It’s almost as if we didn’t leave. We’ll work still here. Okay, so now we’re talking more about Bill Campbell. Now Z. Talk to me about why business principles that work are always counter intuitive. Why do you think that the principles that always work or always the opposite of what people do? By default? Because Forbes tells us that nine out of 10 businesses, startups that opened up their doors fail. So if people are doing what they think they should be doing and they’re failing, that means that they should’ve been doing something else. So it makes sense. An example, Warren Buffet says, be greedy when the market is fearful. Look up that quote and get on the notes here. Be Greedy when the market is fearful, which means that when the economy see it’s fallen apart and bank of America Stocks Super Cheap, Warren would suggest to do what? Buy. And when the economy’s absolutely rocket and he recommends you should do some selling. Why?
Because you’re, you’re going against the flow of the water. What happens is, and that’s a beautiful tip, tip of advice. That’s why he’s one of the wealthiest men in the world. Yes. But, uh, what happened is, is that when people get scared and you have a big business, you know, thriving business. I remember, I remember a few years ago, a Ford Motor Company. I mean these things, he sent me a huge, huge cannot fail. Ford Motor, Ford, huge, huge, tough country to have 202. They came out, they came out and they said, oh, investors stock people. Uh, we’re not gonna make as much money as we thought we were going to make him third quarter and their stock
way, way down. Boom, boom, go. You know what I’m saying? Or thinking, now’s the time to buy because they’re still making money. There’s still a good company. That thing’s going to swing back up around again. Can I ask you what third grade boy is in charge of the scripting for the Ford truck commercials? Because think about it. Every commercial now, every commercial is like, it features a huge truck, right? Yes. Driving through impossible scenarios that only third grade boys think of. Right? It’s like driving over like a lake through a stream over stones, rocks, crushing rocks or somebody will like drop a huge load of whatever from the dead I the back and in the, there’s a guy in rocks and those rocks that get dropped. It tells the narrator from Gi Joe during the commercial and he’s like, do you want to be Ford tough?
Do you want to be a Kanji and not driving forward? If it doesn’t, it kind of call you out every commercial. Oh, does I? I’ve thought about, I don’t even want a truck, but I’ve thought multiple times like I need to buy a truck or I’m an idiot. I think the same thing. And then I’m like, honey, let’s go play Gi Joe. And then Vanessa points out, hey that’s you’re not in third grade too where I’m like, Oh man, he got me. Hey, hey bird drops it. Drop some rocks in my truck bed. I’m serious. Doesn’t make you want to go back and just be a third grade boy every time you see those commercials. Oh, totally. Yeah. Just driving through the mud ever. I mean, you have a a Land Rover and off Road Range Rover. Uh, have you ever thought about just off roading, up a creek, a river driving around through a marsh or a swamp truce? Drowsy. The pictures in our next break,
I was a buddy of mine went pheasant ain’t dead pheasant hunt at his farm. Really? And it had rained the night before, but you kind of drive in there and you get your position than you. You sit there and then they, it’s European style. They released them in the center and everybody’s around them and kind of about 12 o’clock, two o’clock, you know, and I think I was at three o’clock or nine o’clock or wherever I was. And so they throw him up in the middle there,
did fly towards you. You blast him, you know, it’s got one [inaudible] got one and they’ve got the dogs run around, grabbing him as you get it. It’s just, it’s a whole lot of fun. And they throw them in front of you. Oh,
at the center. John can do that kind of hunting. Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. You think so? Yeah. Boom. Born. Um, so anyway, my trucks out there and fight him, drove and did just find all that. And then, then unbeknownst to me, the weight of it, it just, we started sinking. And so I wasn’t really paying attention. I’m all, I mean, I’m sure I’m, you’re coming in hot. I mean, I figured that they were me. Right?
Coming right out, you gotta do something. So then I thought, well that’s no problem. It’s a range rover, right? These things, I mean they bought one year, they had this whole track there at the dealership that you drive all around. It’s incredible. Yeah. It’s like a three year old boy when you’re doing that, you know, so that, yeah, I got to have one of these and they’ll never get stuck. It’s just, you know, you had that mindset. It took three pickup trucks in two tracks. As it gets out. We got other people stuck, tried to get me out. I mean, I sent that thing to the axle. It was a mess.
You don’t see, I have actual audio from your hunting excursion. If I, uh, one of the things I’ve done in you, you have said to me in the past, you’ve said clay clay, I don’t know whether I think you recording my life without my permission is okay. And I’ve said, okay, I’ll work on it. Do you see the mic in my brain? Well, this is, yeah, this is a skin mounted microphone. Oh look, it’s a chip and it records all things that you do. And this was an audio of you. Actually, I’m hunting pheasants. What state were you in at that point? Oklahoma. Oklahoma. This is you hunting. It was a
truly incredible health and body that looks like a no, no, no, no. This is you. This is, you look at kind of excessive weaponry here. Let me click through. Wow. Further ahead. No tents. When did you guys start caring? Shoulder mounted bazookas. That’s aggressive. Okay,
so anyway, that’s, that’s the kind of videos. It’s made it out of there. That’s what makes this show. Great folks. Now principle number two from Bill Campbell says, trust your managers and make sure that they trust their subordinates. Now this is a controversial idea that we will tee up. We will take another 32nd stretch break that might seem like a second and we’ll come back. This is what Bill Campbell says he learned from Steve Jobs, a member. He’s the coach, but he also through Osmosis is learning. He says this, the one thing I learned from Steve is to hire a great person for every single position in the company, Aka never stopped hiring. Ooh, every person has to be great. You can’t just accept mediocrity because that’s what you have. It’s a low paying position. You can’t, there’s somebody else out to the can take the job and do something really wonderful with it. I hire good people and count on them to provide me with the knowledge and understanding of the position. I don’t have z, he never stopped interviewing. He’s instructing his never stop
interviewing z. What if you’re already fully staffed and you already have five employees? Why can’t you stop interviewing? You know, I think were the most difficult things for a business owner to do is if they have an average employee, we’ll call him a c rating, a solid c solid, see it passed barely, and they don’t do enough to just force themselves, get fired. And yet the business owner doesn’t upgrade them when they have the opportunity to upgrade. They’ve been here so long, they’ve been in their training there and there’s some lines up very well. But they show up, you know, and, and last year you honored them with an award and since then they’ve been horrible. There’s all these different reasons. When we come back from the break, we shall get more into the ample examples of business coaching one on one with the world’s best business coach, Bill Campbell, Dr Z, or we’re back.
It has been a bit a long break. I did. I missed Ya. I was right here the whole time. Oh, okay. Now I want to have it ask here. We’re talking today about Bill Campbell. Is it crazy to you that one business coach worked with the top 10 most valuable companies on the planet? I mean, does that blow your mind? No. No, not at all. Really. No, because what happens is, is that, you know, the cool kids that hang out in the cool, the cool kid club, like the cool billionaire club. Yup. Like you’ve got to have at least like, okay, we’ll count 20 billion to hang out in our club. You know? Yeah. And they’re going to sit around or a cup of coffee and they’re eating their pastries and they’re going to ask themselves these questions like, hey, yeah, who do, who cut your yard?
They’re just getting, you’re going to be like, is your net worth right? And then it’ll be like, oh, we, you know, Billy does, they’re going to hire Billy [inaudible] know this coaching idea. I started, I started teaching this idea around 2006 2007 I remember I was exiting Dj connection and I had a little bridal store that asks me to help coach them based in Dallas. And the woman said, you want me to continue interviewing people every week we will meet z. We only need five employees here, right? Have five employees. They’ve been here for years. Why would you want me to start interviewing? It’s going to send the wrong signal to the team. And I said, tell your team we’re always looking to expand and grow and no one has anything to worry about as long as you do a great job. Right? And she just could not move past the idea of never stopping interviewing, but yet bill Campbell, that’s his advice, has never stopped interviewing.
You can’t settle Z for B players, c players. So he talked to me about this. The danger of keeping a c player man, what would happen is is they actually pull down there. I have found in my experience that a c player is more likely to pull down an a player, then an a player, lift up a c player. You’ll notice there are certain people that have the courage to complain but not the courage to quit. Yes, it did an interesting combination it all the time and it takes the whole team down. It takes the whole team down and then what happens is you’re a player goes, well, you know Billy over here who’s a c player, I’m picking on Billy, but for all the Williams out there in the world, I do apologize. But what happens is they see they’re getting away with, if you will, a substandard or average employment ship and so that, that kind of go, oh, what’s your balance?
We have said is, let’s say you have an employee that kicks butt for one of your companies. Okay. And is this type, it’s 100% theoretical because this would never happened to your company’s. No. No. But you have a great employee. That’s awesome. Last year they were salesman of the year, two years before salesman of the year. Always in the top five. But you see them at 10:00 AM on a Tuesday, drunk as a skunk. Often all of a sudden you’re like, wow, drunk as a skunk drunk the first time you see somebody drunk as a skunk at 10:00 AM as country. Do they drink a lot? No. The skunks have a huge alcohol problem. I didn’t know big dependency. I didn’t know. Unbelievable. Is that where they spent so badly? Yeah. Do you drink enough alcohol? You start smelling a skunk. Okay. There you go. Okay, so the, you know what they say z?
They say, I don’t know. See you about to get at boody Yak, Yak. Okay, so where’s the line? Cause you’re a compassionate Guy, right? So this person’s getting it done at work, but they’re morally a foul or they have some issue or whatever’s going on. We all have issues. W would you pull somebody aside privately and say, Hey, do you want me to do in a ride home from work today? And then this happens again. You’re fired. Are you the kind of guy that goes in and goes, won’t, boom, you’re gone. You’re done. Was it a one strike for that kind of thing? What would you think of employee? Who’s a great employee? Great Salesperson. Okay. They show up drunk as a skunk. 10:00 AM on a Tuesday. Who Works? How do you do it? I mean we are you going to give him the one strike for that?
Would you say, Hey, let’s Kinda, we’ll let, let’s, let’s sober he up drive you home with if they were an a player, yes, I’d give them one strike. I mean, I would, I would, I would say, hey mom, drive you home and will now Uber you home. But um, get you home and I’m going to read this again. You and I see a lot, right? I mean this is, these kinds of issues are not abnormal. You have a big enough team, they’re not. And the thing about it is if you’ve got some in the pipeline, if you’re always interviewing, then you’re ready for these kinds of moments if and when you’re ready to fire. Because the thing about it is, I know so many of you have that fire, somebody then go, Oh God, now I’ve got to hire somebody. So if you already have someone kind of in the pipeline, so to speak, cause here here’s another example of c players pulling out an a player.
Yes. I remember one summer I got to, I got a job working at this park and we were cleaning up trees, you know, it was up with trees, but the tree stuff, you know, so I’m running around and I’m dragging branches. I mean I’m hustling and I’m, it’s my first day. I’m excited and I had packed my lunch. I mean I was, you know, I was running around, I was, man, I was getting some stuff done right. You know, and then just picked her that of the thing. You pile the windshield. I wasn’t eligible. He worked to Chipper, gives my first day back pumped the brakes are big guy. Yeah. Was there for a couple of the guys pulled me aside about lunch. So pro, what do you, what are you doing? What are you doing bro? You’re sprinting around here. Getting rid of these leaves. Quickness. I mean, who do you, how do you, I’m going to say, well, I’m just, am I doing, I’m supposed to doing? Yeah, but you’re making us look bad dude. I worked at the pizza factory in Cokato, Minnesota. I was dating this girl for a while and her dad ran the pizza. The pizza factory. We never,
we didn’t have a pizza hut yet. No one sign said pizza hut coming soon. Oh, at the warehouse market. The entire time I lived there. Did you ever have serious, no exaggeration though. If you’re in Cokato fact check me. You know this is true. So it’s coming soon. One stoplight, the whole town. I go to work one day trying to impress this girl and one of the employees, the manager, he’s like, here’s the deal. You get to bring home one pizza a week. Okay, a week. Wow, that’s cool. Thank you. He goes and you always get to get 15% off or whatever, you know? Sure. Well, like day one, I watched this guy give a free pizza to anybody. It’s like people come in and take the volleyball team after a victory. Volleyball. How’d that go? How’d the game go? Girls like we won. Oh, hey, well you guys want some free pizza, hook you up.
I’m watching this guy hookup with, repeats it. So I’m like, that must be the move. He’s my, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s what I do have. So, you know, I see a buddy of mine come in, he’s got like, uh, he’s on the basketball team, wrestling team. Different people like Jack. Good to see you, man. Let me hook up. Yeah, we’ll hook you up, bro. I got fired. But it was the thing with like, I was transparent because I remember the guys that, are you giving away free pizza? I’m like, yeah, I’m doing the move. Like you. They thought you know all the, the athletic teams building that goodwill and he’s like, you’re fired. But I think that like if you have a bad manager, it can ruin the whole thing. They can. So who farted? The manager fired my dad. The dad fired me. Did you tell him about the manager giving away free pizza?
Oh, he didn’t get that far with me. He just goes, hey, are you giving away a free pizza? I go, yes sir. Trying to get that goodwill out there. Just, you know, just totally thinking I’m doing the right thing. And he goes, get out of here. I’m like, okay. No relationship into kind of quickly there. So anyway, move on to principle number three. Bill Campbell taught z. He believed in living a structured life. Now I have an example of Bill Campbell’s life and I would like to share, I would like for you to break down why most successful people have a routine that works for them. So this is bill. Can I get a average day? He woke up at five 30 everyday. Bill Campbell, the world’s best business coach, and he worked out from 6:00 AM to seven day. Then he went to work from to or from 8:00 AM to 2:00 PM so from 8:00 AM to 2:00 PM every day he worked.
And if you want to hear the interview where Eric Schmidt is interviewed on the Tim Ferriss podcast, break explains this. He said, when you’re working with bill from 8:00 AM to 2:00 PM he never was interrupted. So if he’s talking to you, he’s talking to you. If he’s on the phone, he’s on the phone, but he wasn’t ever on the phone. We’ll talking to you or vice versa. And after two he went and coached soccer. And if you’d called him or texted him, no matter what, he would not call you back until the next day because that’s what he said. He’s going to do three principle, very 8:00 AM to 2:00 PM you can count on me. You can see me. And one of his issues, bills, issues, was that people were recovering perpetually distracted. You know, they wouldn’t pay attention. So he had a hammer that into his clients like, listen, we’re, we’re meeting a hundred percent focus. Let’s get, let’s get serious. Can you talk z about the importance of one being 100% focused when you’re doing something in to having some kind of structure in your life?
Well one backer them 100% focus. I think that’s one of the keys to getting stuff done and I think that’s also when the keys for being liked. Oh that’s, that’s dope. Do you know what z? That right there is a
good. They’re going to make a point. You can make a point. US wait and you get a bomb blast. We’re going to throw a German American festival and your honor right now. Oh okay. Oh so many business owners, that’s been time with their family and I’m doing air quotes for those of you who can’t see me cause [inaudible] with you who? Oh, you know it and the family keeps complaining that I’m not there ever. Then you’re like, well are you physically there? Yeah, absolutely. What are you doing? Well, I mean, you know I’m on youtube and emails. I got this, they got, I got that, I got, you know I had that had that one problem is checking on the plane and to deal with that. I mean I’ve got a one star review and man I was dog, I was trying to deal with that and, and I’m like well that’s your problem.
You don’t happen to me. You’re there but you’re not there three or was it about three months ago? I completely ruined to Sunday night. Oh No, no I did it. Oh No. See I keep my phone off on the weekends. Yes. Cause I know for me if I see, you know, see if someone says some, it’s not true about you on the Internet. No, they would never do this. You know what I mean? There’s an immediate where you’re like, ah, so I keep my phone off. So I don’t know why I made the mistake of turning my phone on. And the first thing that came to my attention was a nefarious non-customer, making a claim about something like this. You know, where we get people who haven’t even been into your optometry clinic or a haircut place. And they are just, they’re going on a whale of a tale.
And then there’s this thing called a, what does the glass door where you can write reviews. Andrew, you’ve seen this but working for someplace. It’s true. We have a person who walked off the job but yet had a big old tale about how I’m a fraudulent person or something. So I just turned on my phone. I, and John’s really good cause John’s on top of that email and I don’t look at it, but it just came, I don’t know. And I’m like, ah, Vanessa is like, are you okay? And I’m like, I think I’m going to go kill a man. I mean, there’s a state of Oklahoma, you can’t kill a man. Right? I mean, you can’t kill him. You can’t, you can, you just have to deal with the consequences. They like my mom started, are you okay? Are you okay? You know, are you okay?
My mother wants you. Okay. But yeah, it’s good. It’s just me. And then I do, and I go outside and put in my house and this is where the walk and I’m doing the walk. I thought after one lap I’d be fine. No, no, no, no. I had to go pumps. No, no. To come and go and get some gas. I thought it’d be good. Oh yeah. No. Had to go back on my water pump. The gas thought I plant a tree there. You let it out. No, no. I stayed mad all night. Wow. Family night ruined. Yeah. Bad Job. Me. Keep the phone off. Get it said. We’ve got to set those boundaries. You do have to set those boundaries, but you also have to be better at not letting some idiot still your joy. Steal your joy, steal your time. You can, and I’m just telling you, Rob Nation, I’m just being real with you. If you were around me shouting me, I would say, but once every 12 weeks I lose my mind once every 12
weeks, just get dot. I used to be a lot more often, like every 12 hours and 12 minutes. 12 did I ever tell you about the, the, the, uh, the phone company guy that I, that I got just the last time I was truly lost my line. I don’t know that I’ve heard this story. This is a great story. We were having a t one phone line installed back in the day when you’re like 25 grand. Great sense it. Yeah. So I moved Dj connection from 8,900 South Lynn Lane, broken Arrow to 5,800 east Skelly from a Home Office to a corporate office. Ooh. And we’ve got people in Dallas, clients in Oklahoma City, Dallas, Kansas City, and we get into our building and I had gone over this over and over and over. I said, listen, I’ve got thousands of clients. My phone system cannot be down for even one day.
Set it up the night before, give me a flute, a new phone number while they’re forwarding, make it work. I get there, no phones. So I called up the local phone company, I won’t mention their names, I’m sure there’s great people that work there. And I call boop, boop, boop, boop. And they said they were calling Yada Yada phone service and I said, hey, I’d like to talk to an account specialist. My phones don’t work. It’s very serious. It’s like 7:00 AM I need it on by nine. Sure. We’ll transfer you to, does it ever department and just music. That’s like the music. The flute music. Yeah.
Did he tell you dude, dude, dude, dude, dude, dude.
It’s like, did you know it? Yada Yada. You can get your Internet and phone bundled guaranteed on time. Service today.
Doo Doo, Doo Doo, Doo Doo estimated wait time. 12 minutes, boom, boom, boom.
And I go, okay. I get on the phone. I said, hey, I think it was, it was a, it was a lady and I can’t remember her name. I was like, Hey, I’m not mad at you. I’m not weird. Cooky either. Mad at the situation goes, sir, what’s your phone number? I’m like, okay, give him my phone number. So what’s your account number, sir? What’s your name sir? What juggle, ma’am, I need to get this problem solved. So I go through, you know, see how it is like what’s your name? What’s your last name? What’s your, and then she goes, oh, well, I can’t handle that. You see, that’s a tier two problem. Sure. Transfer over more.
Boop, boop, boop, boop.
It’s voice comes on. Your call is very important for us. Did you know what Yada Yada. We want the customer service award.
Boop, boop, boop, boop,
estimated wait time. 47 minutes. And I’m like, so I get on the phone in this guy’s like, I’ll try to send somebody out today and I should not have said this. I did say it. It’s really funny now because it’s far enough in the past. Uh, Jason Bailey can confirm I said this and whoever else was there, and I said, listen buddy, I know where you’re physically located and I know the kind of consequences that come with killing a man, but I will kill you. I will drive to your office. You find you and kill you. I will straighten you with my phone cords. If you do not fix this. I have 4,000 weddings a year. We’re doing, I’ve got tons of people have weddings this weekend. You can’t reach me. And I will physically assault you if you do not get here now. And I know your calls are recorded, so play it to every need to play it because I’m getting pissed. And the guy was like, sir, I’m sorry. It’s like a cook, a crier. He’s like, oh, he’s like a 45 year old crier. He shows up at the, and we got that thing
fixed immediately. But he was scared. Well, I tell you get thing and I was scared. We were all very scary. It’s like what mom and dad are fighting to go epic. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? The kids are like, we don’t know. We got to, we got to the tide. That’s what was going on there. So again, that’s not something you should do. You got to keep it together. You gotta be more prudent, more measured. Let’s coffee. More herbal tea. Principle number four, spend your days doing not planning. Bill Campbell said every Saturday he’d planned out his week and then all week he would do is plan z. A lot of these busy one field in the middle of the day when they should be selling something going well. I just strategically, where do we want to be in quarter four, quarter four of 2023 during the work day? Yeah.
Oh sure. Bookkeepers. You’re like, what are you doing here? I’m not keeping books. I’m planning out the quarterly projections for it. I’ve got a pie chart I’m making here that shows that where we should be in 2023 yeah, we’re should be. Does that make you crazy? Yes. It makes me crazy cause it got like I paid you to do work, work cold callers. They’re listening to their calls during the day and not making calls. Just listening to her calls. Like theoretically if I make a call, this is how it should sound. This is, Oh wow, that I sounded good on this one. Hey guys, come over and listen to this. I sounded pretty good on this one. Principle number five, Z, your company must have unifying products and principles. Z. Why do you have to as a company agree on your principles? Why is that? Why is that important?
Well, if they’re not in your tribe, they shouldn’t be working in your business. And so I think, I think you, you’ve done a really good job of that with the culture of the thrive nation, the coaches and all the guys
hate us or love us. You know who we are.
Exactly. You don’t hold any punches. You, you make sure put strategically place things in the Home Office that people come in and go, well that’s a fence of you’re like, Oh, you’re not my huckleberry.
Just had another one here. Uh, you know, the last year that a tough deal, uh, a young guy, I had explained to him how capitalism works. Uh Huh. So you don’t, you hate when you’re talking to a, uh, a bonafide socialist who was upset that capitalism requires selling a product or a service in exchange for compensation. And it’s not based upon who has the best idea, theoretically. Oh, it just didn’t work out.
Oh, you know, socialism is great until you run out of somebody else’s money. Right. It’s always great until it deals with your backyard is I call it, yes. You know, it’s funny, they do all these days about the young millennials and they’re all, you know, 60% of them are to hey socialism’s what’s the thing? And, and uh, you know, you go to a college and you say, okay, here’s what we’re going to do. It would be take your test. And we text her test, right? And then what the teacher comes and says, okay, well I’m gonna do is I’m going to take points. Andrea, you made a 95 well done, but I’m gonna take, I’m gonna take 20 points from you and give them over here to clay because clearly made a 65 and then that way you both could get like a c or a B. Okay. And then they’d go, they freak out. They
go nuts. Go. Well, no, he didn’t even study. I stayed up all night. I know it’s on a small level. People have a huge issue with it, but on a big level, oh, now he’s a great derby. The goodies. Michael Jordan’s winning a lot of basketball games. Lebron James Turns out to be pretty good. So to make it even, let’s make them wear ankle weights. Well, why wouldn’t we? Because on a small level that seems bad, but our big level seems good. Absolutely. I have another example of principals in one. I’d like to get your take on this. Okay. This is a hot news story. Uh, and Andrew put on the shownotes Amazon. I reported in CNN that came out. Amazon has this program called the Alexa. See, are you familiar with the Alexa? Yes, I am. So Alexa, you say like, Alexa, turn on my lights. Alexa, wash my car.
Alexa, cue up the song. Right. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a voice operated device you speak to Oh yes. In order to automate trillum yes. Right. And so, uh, it just came out by some disgruntled, uh, Amazon employees that there are over a thousand employees who full time, who’s there full time job is to listen to the entirety of what you say in your house. Even when you might think it’s off. They just, they’re listening and then they start to go, well, here are the problems that we’re hearing people have or issues or things. So what we’ll do is we’ll now add it into the AI code in that way, it’s easier to use. So the justification is by listening to, if I’m at your house now, you and I are there and you say, client, is your phone turned off yet? I got to tell you something here.
This is very confidential. Amazon has people paid to listen to our competence, competence, that it’s super creepy and it’s never, it’s always on essentially, right? So the Amazon employees have come out and they’re like, we don’t think it’s ethical that we’ve been asked to listen to people’s calls. But it is kind of funny. So why was hearing clay and Dr z clay was explaining to z about his rash and confidence? I’m going to see, is your phone off? Yeah, I just get just you and me. Okay. Here’s what I got this real secure. I got this. I don’t know what happened. I had my cat hopped in my bed. It’s true story. Cat hopped in my bed, had some sort of rash and I’m like swelling up. This was about a few months ago. It’s actually happened. Um, you don’t have a good doctor. Didn’t recommend I go to to make that go away. You know, and we’re talking privately. Sure. The Amazon employees. Check this out there. Now, downloading your calls and sharing the biggest life fails on the Internet of people’s private conversations.
And you know what? Here’s the problem is when you go by that Alexa, that that the machine, yes, it’s in the fine print. It’s in the fine print. Trust me. So what’s happening is again, if I worked at Amazon today and you said clay, I would like for you to listen in on someone else’s house and then provide feedback on how it’s going to make the AI better. I would have to say no because I would just not be down with that idea. But this is what the article says. Amazon employs a global team that transcribes the voice commands captured after the wake word is detected and feeds them back into the software to help improve Alexis grasp of human speech so it can respond more efficiently in the future. Bloomberg reports. Amazon now reportedly employs thousands of full time workers and contractors in several countries, including Costa Rica, Romania, United States to listen, uh, to as many as a thousand clips in shifts that lasts up to nine hours.
The audio clips they listened to her were described as mundane and even sometimes possibly criminal, including listening to a potential sexual assault. And he goes on and on and explained that these people, many of the employees would then take the audio in, share this with each other as a weight. It’s like an internal like humor, you know? And so I’m just saying the truth, I was kind of funny. I would imagine so. I’m just saying if I got hired by Amazon today, I, and I couldn’t be hired there because I’m just telling you right now, I disagree with the idea. And you said step number one, I want you to record people’s calls with our record people’s homes there, their bedtime conversation. People have that, their bedroom. Sure. Having a have all over their house. I want you to listen to and do it and provide feedback and how you can make the AI.
Then I’d be like, I’m out, I’m peacing out. But if you’re down with it, you could work there. But the problem is the, when you have people working on your team who disagree with your core mission and her kind of passively, aggressively, you know what I mean? It’s like, sure, I’ll listen to the calls. And then as soon as the boss leaves poss I’m the passive aggressiveness. He, that’s that. That’s the, isn’t that the biggest problem? It can be. It’s the erosion of mindset. You’re right, it is the erosion amongst that. And that’s why you gotta have, you gotta have people that want to be in your tribes. You have to make sure you define it. Yes. And make sure they know it. Yes. And it’s okay. Don’t agree with it. Right. [inaudible] there’s other tribes, there’s other tribes and the places to go. Another example, Zappos specializes in providing the one they want to offer the best customer service possible over the phone.
And they actually were giving out awards and recognizing people with the longest call times the longest time spent with one customer on the phone. Huh. I couldn’t do that. I think it’s a great idea. Great Company. They’re obviously doing well. But if you said to me, hey, try to extend this phone call and talk as long as you want about anything with this person, because that’s what we do. I’d be like, I dunno. I mean that’s, that doesn’t seem very efficient. You’re, you’re rewarding. It should be the people that have the highest customer service ratings due to a survey of people that have called in and got Tony Shay found that people, they have a relationship with some guy they call in for customer service, they come back for shoes. It’s crazy. Crazy. So again, I mean, you just gotta make sure people on your team have the right principles. They get it. Principle number six, it’s imperative that you stop in fighting as soon as it arises. Z, it’s imperative that you stop in fighting as soon as it arises. You know, tardiness, social media arguing. I’m job searching during working hours, fighting with family at work, refusing to save files the right way. Z, why do you have to stop in fighting right away? Well if you don’t, it
just, it just grows. It’s like a cancer. Just so you catch it at stage one, you’re the idiot. It’s a strong word. You’re the not good business owner. If you had to go to stage four. Oh yeah, yeah. I guess that things going to kill us now. That’s unfortunate. Waitress growth. That’s what her official cancer growth. Um, we used to say back in the day to day, nip it in the bud right now. People don’t know the origin of the phrase and say nip it in the butt, which leads to a whole nother series of problems around the workplace. Why did Greg hit me in the box? Well, you said nipped in the bud, right? Anyway, so now principle number seven, number seven, z. Why is the number seven by the way, supposed to be the perfect number? Because God said it was seriously principle number seven. Number seven, talk to us about this.
Number seven. What is the number seven supposed to be so hot? Well, it’s cause when it comes in craps I daddy, daddy gets paid. I don’t know that that is the depth that I was looking for. Um, I think it, it hit on the surface. Did it? I don’t know. Have just tell you what, why would they have a baby? You liked it? Number seven. What in the heaven? How many doors? How many doors does it Snow White? How many one dwarfs live with snow white. Oh, there’d be seven. Yeah. And then Kevin rhymes was seven. What’s the square root of 49 and seven. What’s the integer between six and eight oh seven c and then Kevin Mitchell hit 47 home runs while playing for the giants in 1989 w okay. Which has a bird never gets the principle. Number seven determined cultural values from the onset and model them z.
Why can’t you just have a bunch of corporate values and not modeled them if you’re the leader? Oh good luck with that. I tell you what, if you don’t feel it’s safe. Another old saying, oh, can we do, you know, in the old saying is do what I do. Don’t do it. I say, wait, what? ICU pickup, trash pickup up. You have to follow your own rules, you have to follow your own credence is that you put out there and you’ll people who are watching, oh they’re watching. My bathroom friend was a guy in our office. Every time I go to the bathroom he’s, it seems, it seems like he’s there and people are fascinated with leaving toilet paper on the ground. Have you seen this phenomenon Andrew? I have and I pick it up every time I wash my hands and I’m always like, what kind of, what kind of animals in this one guy, I know who it is because when I am leaving he’s leaving the restroom, he’s leaving the stall and there’s your two things that just happen.
He said, hey, he left it or be the person before I left and he didn’t have the pride to pick it up. But I’ve tried saying things like, Hey, pick it up or I’ve actually demonstrated by picking it up, but over time, you know, so you’ve, you’re picking it up yourself like well the cleaning person comes on Fridays. Unless they went to ways day for a week, I’m going to pick it up. Wow. Wow. It just, it’s weird dance. See what if you’re the boss of the business and you park in the employee of the month space. So let’s say that you’re the leader and you have the employee of the month parking space and you park there just to be that guy. You don’t one of my, what am I? Oh that’s bad. Eh, you don’t do it. Don’t do it for them to do it. So at the auto auction we have this big and we won’t have five, 600, 700 dealers.
They’re so big parking lot. Huge big parking lot. I guess where I park, uh, right up front, right there on the, in the handicapped spot. No, no. As far away as I can. Really? Oh yeah. Why? What far ways again? Cause I leave the customers, they get closer to the building. Ah, shut. That’s a good move. And so I, I don’t like, it’s one of my rules around my businesses do not take those premium spots cause that would wheels in there. Right there. There’s a sexy move. We’ve never talked about that, but that’s a sexy move. Oh yeah. You Park Way far away. That’s a deed that leads into the move. Never Walk to work if don’t even bring a car. Walk to work. Yes, slackers. Right? Okay. So everybody for listening there and think to ourselves, are we parking in front?
The idea of coaching? Is it supposed to be repairative not punitive. All of us as we go through these 14 principals, everybody listening, myself included, there’s something you can learn here. There’s something we’re doing wrong. There’s some way we can improve. Principle number eight, Andrew, get prepared for the longest reading of your adult life. Amen. So I want you to read this in chunks and in z will be your hype man. Okay? So you’re going to read it, and as you’re reading it, z will be the height, man. If the principle is don’t manage your team via email. Okay? So Z, whenever he reads enough where you get excited, you feel free to affirm him. Oh, you ready? Andrew? Go for it.
All right. So one of the greatest boom and bust of the, uh, of the technology era is electronic nail. It is one of the greatest things that has ever been constructed anywhere. It’s also a crutch cry. Oh, email is one of the greatest is one of the great, great things that’s ever been constructed and invented. And I’m a full supporter of it, but it’s got, it’s got to be used wisely. Come on now. I worked with an executive who managed by email, he’d read a report or something and his email folder, disagree with it and then send a memo saying something like, I think this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. And he blasted out to six people who had been on the group. And as a result, each person in the group would write him another two to three page email. Ah, stop proper throat dogs to stop Mike.
But stop, stop even sending emails, email straight from, hey stop running. But keep reading. They would respond with shut your mouth. You’re talking about emails too. They would respond with a two to three page email message, time suck, explaining why the report wasn’t stove. Oh Lord, everybody would end up spending 45 minutes, uh, thoughtfully banging out over an electronic answer. Everybody was Kung Fu five team. And it turned out that, uh, and it turned out that when he blasted criticisms like that out into the network, oh, he would find out that there were, uh, they were right and they had just thought and they just had thought the situation through very carefully. The executive was just not aware of all the reasons that, uh, that they got to that point because he did not follow the process. I tried to tell this guy that the electronic criticism was pretty insensitive. I suggested that he, uh, I suggested that he, to the next committee, uh, that he to the next committee meeting. Keep on [inaudible] this was all transcribed. This is great. Yeah. Oh, uh, with the team and say, look, I really didn’t like this and let me tell you why. And then they’d get a chance to say, well, let me tell you the problem. I don’t know how many hours we’ve wasted answering electronic messages just to address something that he could have been that could have been settled during a brief hallway conversation.
I don’t ever see email. We use signed something via email. When you give people orders via email, when you manage via email that this is not work. It just does not. It just doesn’t work. It just doesn’t. It’s like managing via now it’s texting. You don’t, that’s to texting and know. Managing through, through texting. And I see, and again, we’re talking, some people will say, well, we’ll bill Campbell sounds old school guys. Listen, he was coaching apple, apple leading technology company in the world. They have more cash in the bank than most countries. Oh, I know. It’s crazy. Uh, Google the Google, they’re huge. Youtube, Facebook, trust me at these big companies, they’re not managing via email. Principle number nine, maintain a culture of respect. This is big. Bill Campbell says the title doesn’t mean much unless you can either, unless you can earn their respect as a leader, the title doesn’t matter much unless you can earn their respect as a leader.
Xe. Talk to me about here’s your title, your CEO, your CFO, your c, whatever, O and no one gives a crap. You know, I think so many times people think when you get the title that they get respect with it doesn’t happen. And they almost get mad when it doesn’t. You should recuse should respect me. You should honor me. I am kind of a big deal carrying me around on my chairing of a humbleness dairy feed, be grapes during the break. So let me tell you how respect is, or let me say, respect is earned. This is the huge outwork everybody consistently and just shut up. Seriously. Yeah. Speak as little as possible. Lead by example, and then all of a sudden people are going to go, well let’s, let’s get Andrew’s take on this. Andrew, you, you pull the ad reports and so what’s your take on this?
Well, you know, because you’ve been doing all the time. Sure. But it’s, it’s so important that principle number 10, ah, Bill Campbell talks about being honest with your team. Be honest with your team. Now, Bill, I’m gonna read you a quote from bill just to kind of get what Bill Campbell would sound like. He says, I always say to my companies are borderline anarchy. I like people to fight back. I’ve got a temper and then I’m angry a lot. Not Abusive. I’m like Gd, Jeffrey, how the h how come you’re not? How come you didn’t finish this? You know I asked you to do it. I expect you to respond in kind like look, Bill, that was a boob idea. I tried to get it done that way and I put it on the field sales force and three customers rejected it so then I’m fine, fine, fine, fine, fine.
I hear you that way. I know you’re gonna, you’re, you’ve gone through things. I expect you to say you bill. I’ve got a better way to do it. The point is, bill is like, listen, if I have a problem with you going to tell you right now so we can get, we can get dealt with real quick. Candor’s Saves Times Z. It really does. And this idea that I don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings or that, oh Geez, I don’t have that laying to be able to talk straight talk is as bad cultural. I want to talk to you about something, but let’s imagine that you’re a a dinghy in the ocean and I am a cat now when a cat walks in and you’re going, where’s this analogy going? But yeah, and you’re like, so basically you had, so we’re what’s happening? You don’t want you to vote.
I mean I, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s so weird. It’s so weird that people mix analogies with analogies with another analogy and then like a Haiku and they wonder why you don’t get it. They’re like just about me. Or we just saw that can be, it’s about a cat or a dinghy. What do I need to do here? What do we need more cat food? Is that what we need here? But we have flip just cop to me now principle number 11 work on the people, work on the people. Then the problem, this is, this is probably my favorite one. He says, work on the people. Then the problem. So bill, almost every time he said that when something wasn’t getting done, he immediately goes, who’s the person working on it? And you’re like, well what? What do you mean? He’s like, well I mean if you’re saying we’re having a quality problem at Facebook or Google or whatever, uh, who’s the one doing it?
And he would almost always find it was a people problem. Oh yeah. Almost never an equipment problem. Oh sure. Xe. Talk to me about this. Like, cause everyone else wants to get a new, we knew video cameras. That’s how we’re editing too slow in a new server. We need a new, it’s, we need, we need a new phone system. They’re not enough calls are being made. We need a new phone system. We need a new phone system. We had auto dialer phones dial dialed because now we with our fingers are having a hard time dialing. Cause it’s just so autodialer would save everything. Sure would. And it did. We could hit the quota that you have you to do a hundred outgoing calls. Oh autodial. And there’s always one more thing to buy is they’re not. I’ll always talk to me about the people problems. My favorite one, those my, the new favorite move that I’ve heard over the years.
I love this. If, you know, if I only hit an assistant, gets the new one now I could get that done. That’s, that’s my, that word. I just chuckle at eat with the assistants. What assistance, you know? Well, I, well, I could get that done if, if I had an assistant, let’s pull up the stats on this real quick. Let’s, we’ll put on the show notes. I’ll make sure we get this. Creed Inc magazine. According to ink magazine, 81% of employees lie on their resumes. Yeah, just anyone. Shocking. Shocking. 4% still for me is that 75% according to the US chamber would call me a liar. And this is, this is, this is the new one that I enjoy this just, there’s a website called a, well, I was telling you about this this morning and the, and the, in the team meeting, because I’m doing some research for a book I’m working on, there’s a website called Ashley Madison, which is the website.
See where you can register to have an affair. Have you heard about this side? Oh yeah. Did you hear that? They had, uh, they had, uh, uh, a leak of information. So it, all of these people, how can you pull the big, the big rush. I was doing some research on how often people are being interrupted and there’s 50 million Americans with Ashley Madison Account. Oh, wow. Which means one out of six people having no having an account. So when you’re in a room with six people, why have you got, what are you have z accounts? That’s what I’m saying. Until like, he does understand the statistics are true and they’re in your office. Oh yeah. So the idea that you’re going to trust three out of four people when they say, well the reason why I’m not able to get my podcasts recorded or my content written or my videos edited or whatever they doing it was cause we need winter equipment. That’s probably not the problem 90% of the time. Correct. There are other Ashley Madison account trying to be like, well I kept getting updates and I’ve got a plan this so fair and lift my double life. [inaudible]
there’s another one. Is that shocking to you? One at a six? I would have probably guess less, but yes, that is a little shocking. Wow. I just 50 million but then you know, but they’re like me. I’ve got like six accounts cause you gotta have you gotta put aliases, you know Rico Suave, principle number 12 I kind of go to the cook, get a Ford pickup truck out. Now you go up there, I’ll get it. Principle number 1213 and 14 principle number 12 judge people by more than just the metrics they produce. Why do you have to judge people? Some guy make it might sell a lot. He might be the best coder in the world. The best video guy in the world, the best automotive repair guy ever. The best cake decorator. But what other things do you judge? It’s up full package there. Yes, it’s a full package.
I had my five A’s for employees for example. For example, one of them is appearance appearance. He could be great on the phone talking, but he shows up. But he hadn’t washed it a couple of days and he’s uh, you know, doesn’t believe in July. John, I have had very good discussions about this. I was, I was pointing out to if there’s a new personality type that’s out there in the market, the workplace, it’s dangerous. Yeah. I call them the smart nefarious people you’ve seen as the detect people who knows so much about coding that they know how to like be working under computer somehow where it’s hidden all day, where no one knows. Oh yeah. And when you see a super, super smart person, Oh yeah. Who is also duplicate. Why would do you, why do you have to run from that person? See, you want honesty. You want people to be who they are.
You, you want them to be able to say to you, I mean, I know we have all the people stealing from you. People lying on resumes. And it’s so tough to get people out there that are really genuine. What you see is what you get. So many times they’ve got this other other life want to. If it’s a business life. Yeah. Um, why do you think 75% of the people out there stealing from the employer because they’re doing something they shouldn’t be doing, taking something do and then, but there’s a vibe when you walk up in the room, when you pass in the hallway, do you think they stopped? You Go, oh by the way, I just swallowed a whole box of, and John, they’re on the same page with this. I’m just telling you though, but it is very tempting for a new bay business owner, new baby business owner, when they see someone who’s like the best coder ever or the best mechanic ever, or the best photographer ever.
It’s easy to get to give them a hall pass. Sure. Because you’re like, well, they’re so good. They’re so good, but it’ll heal. Your culture comes in hour late everyday, but he’s so good. You see, but eventually it’s going to kill your business in it. It is. It is. It is. It is you. You have to, that’s why. That’s why a performance and a d personality or a d work ethic or a d you know, I’d hearing to your tribe moral ethics is, is a no is a, is a no go. You write here principle number 13 live this more than anyone I’ve ever met personally as a tea. I only, we only spent maybe 40 50 hours a David Robinson interviewing him. She didn’t spend years with him like I had with you, but principle number 13 from Bill Campbell, the be the top business coach ever.
He writes, ever focus on all he focused on the longterm, always. That’s kind of the principle focus on the longterm always. So this is what Eric Schmidt said about Bill Campbell’s coaching in this area. Eric Schmidt, the CEO of Google rights. When there is a business conflict, you tend to get rat holed into it. Bill’s general advice was to rise one step higher above the person on the other side of the table and take the long view. He’d say, Eric, you’re letting it bother. You don’t right. Z, you’re really good at that. Yeah. I don’t need to know how hers in years and years of practicing you’ve, you’ve got to, and that’s the thing about it is I, it was, I’d always shocked me whenever I’d have one of my employees didn’t saves this called the eye care facility. Right. Okay. They come in and go, man, this guy is, he’s such a jerk and he’s wanting this and wanting that and, and you know why he’s wanting new this and new that and his glasses.
He just got none of that. I said, okay, settle down. Shunda Shanda. Nikki like a high, first of all, what does he want? Exactly. What you’re so good limited, let me know. Uh, he wants to do lenses in his classes. I’m like, okay, what kind of guy? What? What are their single vision? Plastic lenses. All right, well that costs me a fraction of what it costs me to advertise to get him into the business in the first. It’d be better just to go ahead and take care of them. So even though we know, you know, he’s maybe scamming us for a new set of lenses. Correct. It’s still in the long term. Best benefit for the office. Let it flow. It just go down there. But he’s, he’s getting one up on you. It’s okay. He’ll be back and we’ll have years of him and his family buying goods and services and my wife is so principled, she’s so principal. That’s why I launched so, so principals and I started out in business. I was just like, I’m going hold people accountable.
The same standard I hold myself accountable to and man, I remember, see, I remember I would, I deejayed for an event, Dj the crap out of it or the best club event. I Dj at cronies downtown. Whoo. I rocked that thing now. Yet at the end of the show the owners like, Hey, we had poor attendance tonight and I can’t pay you. And I’m like, uh, we never talked about the attendance being a contingency related to paying me. This is like two, 8:00 AM 2:00 AM conversation. I’m like, are you a quick little coolio to thousand dollars? You know, he’s not paying $1,000. I’ll give you a hundred bucks right now. That $100. He’s like, oh suddenly got to court because I can pay over time if you want. So see, you know, and I did. I took him to the the uh, what was it? Didn’t, who’s the guy is Dennis Simler who know about Dennis, who’s the guy, Tim Harris back in the day.
Tim here. Tim Harris Yoga. If somebody like bounces you a check or whatever their deal is cause he end up writing me a check and he bounced the check for 100 bucks. Yeah. Oh Wow. Didn’t even cover the hundred. Wow. I went through the process of trying to get, he’s Tim Harris had was the district attorney at the time. So for I baby sat there it and just for full clarity it was an, it was a venue that was downtown near this place called crony. So as far as the name of the company, I don’t remember, but it was a threat. They’re not in business anymore. But anyway, the point is w I wonder why. So the check bounces. So Z I t I drove downtown by that tag agency and I went down there and I did it. I went into the office building, Tim Harris is building. I told him the situation and I won and I got a check.
I guess they’d can prorate up to like 60 months, you know, you can pay over 60 months. So I got one 60th of a $100 checks every month that often bounced checks for $2 a dollar 50 and so then every time I would take it back to Dennis, his office or to Tim Harris’s office, and eventually my wife was like, when are you gonna stop? Cause you’re getting like a dollar 50 for gas money. Then you’re my whole day. I was like, it’s the principal. Oh Gosh, no, I’m done with that. Yeah, release. Oh Shonda, someone, hopefully it helps us a hundred bucks. You forget about it. Now, the final principle, and I want to get John on here real quick. We’ll get John on here. I want a cake, Steve, and get John the Mica because this is a powerful mean Jake, Jonathan Kelly. They didn’t incredible. Jonathan Kelly, this is principle number 14.
Uh, Bill Campbell preached to a lot of his business owners be the positive aspects of their personality. You know what I mean? Like Jeff Bezos, BGF bees, us, you know, Jeff Bezos wanted to make everything more affordable, right? Google had this desire to download the internet and to make, to be a good company, to be a good company with good policies, good people, very transparent. Steve Jobs, he was Oh, more secretive. Steve was a more of a pirate, more of a warrior. More of a, Oh yeah. Each one of his clients had their own different personality and he just said, hey, beat Bu. You know, so see, I want to get your take on this. What, when should you be you and when should you not be you? Because being used a bad thing, will it be and used a bad thing you need to give new you?
Hm. What do you mean by that? Is that, is that you should always be you because anything else is disingenuous in my mind. Okay. And so when I’m trying to be somebody else, now I have a black cat, I have a wide hat, and they’re both sides of my personality. I am being me. If I have to put it on the black hat and go ooh. Or the white hat. So I think, I think I’ll take, put a little spin on what you’re saying there and that is, is that, you know, if you really are having a hard time getting along with people, getting through with life, finding yourself and always in controversies, in fights, and you know, you’re thinking, man, those six guys I met with this week, they’re all idiots cause I’ll just want him to fight. I’m like, here, you’re probably the common denominator there, Bucky. You know,
and we living in a world where if you are a hardcore principled, you’re going to have conflict. Oh yes you are. I mean, if you’re like hardcore principled, if it’s, so now John, I wanna get your take on this. Bill Campbell, um, Z, he was a football coach at Columbia. Okay. Yeah, he coached football there. He played there from 1959 to 1961 and he was named all ivy team. Would Z be at an Ivy League football players? Really? Not The road to the NFL. Yeah, they’re very few maker, but there’s are some that airfield. So in 1962 he graduates with a degree in economics. He goes on to get a master’s degree at age 24 and a z. He goes and becomes a full time head coach for Columbia’s football team, the Columbia lions, the lion from 1974 to 1979 although not successfully and a z.
He then ends up going to work for Kodak. And one of his observations as he was working his way up the corporate ladder, as he says, attitudes are contagious. One, a whole, I feel it means amazing whole person one, a whole can spoil a solid team for that reason. Don’t be afraid to fire people because of their bad characters. Yes. John, what’s your take on that? I mean, when, when do you, when do you know it’s the time to kill time to let you go? Time to get out of here. Oh, am I immunity? A passive aggressive? I think you’re back there. Okay. Uh, no, I agree with that. Um, you know, one bad apple can spoil all of them. And so the same thing with attitudes. Uh, people’s attitudes rub off on other people. And so if people aren’t bringing the energy or if they’re, you know, speaking whispers that catches on and all of a sudden everybody is speaking whispers and it’s just creates a bad culture.
You bring up gender the day, pretty much. You pretty much walk around. Yeah. And police whispering, don’t ya? Uh, Yup. I also sing very intentionally, very poorly, uh, to let people know that I’m around. And you also, uh, praise people real time. But it’s a walk around management. That’s why you’re very good at it. Now, uh, bill talks about the importance of z being uninterrupted, but now according to Nielsen, were shutting, shutting the average American is now on their smart device 11 hours a day. John, how much does that kill productivity when you have an employee that’s sitting there on their smart device? Uh, well, it would kill it for about 11 hours a day. And, uh, you know, you and I talked about this this morning. If you combine that with the five hours a day that people are watching TV on the average, that’s 16 hours a day.
You’re literally doing nothing. Nothing with your, your brain. I think that you and Bill Campbell have a lot of similar traits. As an example, Bill Campbell left Kodak, which was a $14 billion company to go join a $90 million company called Apple. John, what inspires you to do the work that you do? Why, why? Cause Bill Campbell said his wife thought he was crazy. His mom thought he was crazy. He’s leaving Kodak, a huge company at the time to go work for, you know, a smaller company. Apple. What motivates you to make everything great? Well, I just hate a mediocrity and so I just, anything I do, I want it to be with excellence. And so anything I touch, the, the, the people that we employ, everything that, uh, you know, I I’m involved with, I want excellence and I cannot stand average or mediocrity. What do you think about this idea?
Uh, John, that, that Bill Campbell was the coach for the world, for the, who’s who’s the, who’s who, $2 trillion dollar business coach, right? It turns out, John Doherty, d, O, e, r, r, John Door, one of the top venture capitalists of all time talks to Eric Schmidt, the head of Google, and the head of Google says, Hey, John Doerr, I need some help. What’s the best I need some help. I’m getting overwhelmed and need some. I need some. I need someone to kind of lead the way, but I’m the head of the biggest company in the world of Google. You know, what should I do? And John Doerr says, uh, my advice to you, Eric, is to have a coach. The coach, he said that I should have, I’m quoting Eric Schmidt, is Bill Campbell. I resented the advice at first because after all, I was the CEO of Google. I was pretty experienced. I mean, why would I need a coach?
Was I doing something wrong? My argument was how could a coach advise me if I’m supposed to be the best in the world at this already? When that’s not what a coach does. The coach doesn’t have to play a sport as well as you do and you have to watch you and get you to perform at your best and the business context. A coach is not a repetitious coach. A coach is somebody who looks at something with another set of eyes, describes it to you in his words and discusses how to approach the problem. Once I realized I could trust bill, I could trust him and that he could help me from with with this perspective. I decided this was a great idea. When there is a business conflict you tend to get rat holed into it. Bill’s general advice had been to rise above one step higher as we said earlier, above the person on the other side of the table and take the long view.
John, we’ve worked with some clients like Dr. Edwards or clay stairs for like what, eight years? Yeah. Before you started working with me. Yeah. Why do you think clients will stick around with me for eight years? Well, I think a big part of it is any question they have, um, you know the answer or you know how to find the answer. And so, uh, you know, if their business is rocking, the all the checklists are in plays or their marketing’s done. Um, you know, questions still come up all the time. And so just the ability to have somebody that’s been through it before and knows how to find those answers is vital. So Steve Jobs got kicked out of apple, right? Z he got fired from his own company, but out of George Lucas is going through a divorce. George calls him for a hail. Mary says, Steve, I hear you’re looking for work.
A former CEO of apple. What are you doing? I’m starting a little company called Pixar, which doesn’t make any money or movies. Yeah. Um, and I’m going through a divorce. Can you take over for me so I don’t lose it? Steve Jobs says, sure. He made more money as a CEO of Pixar, then he made ever at apple. Crazy, crazy. It made the, made $1 billion running Pixar. So, uh, you know this point bill Campbell’s like, well I’m, my client is gone because here he was chairman of the board at Apple at this time. So he’s like, okay, I’m going to go do something else. So bill started a company, this company called go corporation, which developed the tablet technology we now use on smartphones where you can touch the screen, that kind of thing. And uh, he sold the company to at t, and T. And when bills, when bill talked to Steve Jobs, Steve said, I’d really like you to come back and coach me.
And Bill said, I’ve got one rule though. I don’t take stock, I don’t take cash and I don’t take boop. Why, what, what do you think would motivate a guy to work 100% for free for the biggest companies in the world? But what, why do you think Z or I want to get your take on that z and then your take John, why would a guy worked for free for the rest of his life with America’s biggest companies? What would motivate a man to do that? How’d he make his money? He already made his money through his, uh, chairman of the board at Apple selling go and being the CEO of intuit. Oh, okay. So he will, he’s done age 50, z w what, what would, what would motivate and how to do that? Well, did he knows that it, the thing about it is, is that if you’re, if you’re volunteering, it’s a whole different feel and flavor to it than if you’re getting paid to do a job.
So if I’m volunteering, there’s a part of my brain that knows this. If things go south, I don’t feel bad about just walking away, which I think was one of the powers that he had to be able to give people really a direct advice. Cause he’s like, you can fire me if you want, but I don’t have any benefit either way. Right. I’m just telling you how it is. Right. John, why is it so important to have somebody in your life like that? They’ll just tell you how it is. Well, you know, you need that honesty. And so if you’re just surrounded by people that are just going to tell you whatever you want to hear, that’s not actually helpful. You need somebody in your corner that’s going to say, hey, this is going to be rough for you to hear, but this is, this is the honest truth.
I’d also say the, you know, I’ve, I’ve seen with you and the doctors here is really good at this as well as the more and more successful you are, it seems like they’re more willing to, to give back in some way. And so, you know, the, the bill Campbell had already made his money and so now he, his whole deal was mentoring. He wants to mentor people towards greatness. A very good, a friend of mine named Alon, a Jewish guys. He’s about your age. Yeah. He was an integral mentor in my life about a year there and I met him through some random DJ event I did. I pulled into a house next to cash a hall. It was like the biggest house I’ve ever seen and I was like, wow, what do you do? Came over from Israel, fought in the six day war, started a bunch of products, sold them apparently very well.
And uh, he said claim I’m going to, I want to draw a little picture. So he draws a circle and he breaks into these three semi equal parts. It look like equal parts and I go, okay well wouldn’t it be easier to break it up into like four parts? But like no that just, just working on this, this is, this is how I will do life. He goes, there’s three phases of life. He’s a Jewish guy, very principle. He said phase one is learning age one through 25 I was taught to learn phase two 25 to 50 earn as much as you can, phase three, age 50 to 75 return. And he’s like in the Jewish faith, we give a lot of our money back to other causes and charities. We help out the next generation. You still earn money while you’re returning, but that’s the whole how I view life and that really helped me z to clarify my life.
Wow. Cause he was like, you right now are in the learning phase. I was like 24. He goes, read every book you can upset. Is He, you remember that phase of your life where you’re reading every book? Oh yeah. And then it’s, he’s like, now you gotta earn the next Ms. Start certain next year it’s about money making money, building systems that might not make money today, but our systems that will make you money over the long haul. But then you return. And I’m like, so what, what books are you reading now? He’s like, oh, I don’t, I don’t read books. I just teach them about looks. I know I’m done with that phase of my life. I’m done learning. I’m done. Or can you talk to me z about where you’re at with your life right now? Are you kind of in the earning and returning phase? Do you
yes, definitely. Definitely. You’re doing both? Yeah. Oh yes, of course. And so, uh, and I’ve uh, yeah, I’m 54 so I probably overlapped them a little bit more. I mean, I know, I know there’s probably weren’t concrete numbers for him, but yeah, I started my optometry practice on is 25 so my learning at that point in that arena Kinda, I mean you, you always have to do continued education. So you’re still a little bit drip learning tons of business books every day. No, no I don’t. Are you used to, they had all this stuff. Now you’re like, okay, I’ve read the books now, now it’s more math, more like hobby driven or every now and then I’ll have some fun with, with something, you know, like it was, nothing will inspire me on, on one of her shows or podcasts and I’ll go, oh, I want to flip to that for a little bit. But now like Ibi raised in breed, um, thoroughbreds and so I’m always learning and growing that in my brain. But you know, that type of way to get paid to do your hobby too, which is Kinda cool. Yeah. Which is cool. Now, John, my final question for you is your
in the, in that phase where you’re learning and you’re earning and you, you’ve read some really boring books that are great. Yeah. Like search engine for dummies. Talk to me about the blast. The blast of reading that or honest seduction. They we website conversion book. How long, how fun were those two books? I actually really enjoyed the, uh, honest suggest, uh, duction because its focus. He liked that, but I really did like that one search engine for dummies is a, if you took like five books and put them together, it’s powerful and you could just hit somebody over the head with them and you know, make him go to sleep for a couple of, and so that one’s very technical. Uh, and so that, that, that was rough when a checklist manifesto, that was brutal. That was, uh, oof. That was a great book to CalArts.
But your heart and the importance of quality control and checklists, I would just say if you’re out there, is he my final capstone. Dot. Is nothing is worse than knowing you want to become successful. Yes. But being unwilling to make the tradeoffs needed to do it, nothing’s worse. We call those wantrepreneurs and I think that’s what Bill Campbell did with his clients. His, he would find out what they needed to do, hold them accountable and they would do it and they won over and over. If you have yet to pick up the book, pick up the book today. It is the trillion dollar coach and I believe they’re, they have, they’ve set up a website called [inaudible]. It’s $1 trillion coach.com trillion dollar coach.com. Go there today by that book. We just bought a book of what yesterday, John. We just bought her a couple days ago. Yeah, so we preorder the book. I’m telling you, you’ve got to buy this book, Thrive Nation by your book.
Um, as a business coach, uh, I admire the life and times of this guy and I’m so excited they finally put it in a book cause it’s like the humblest man in the world was the most effective coach. I now it’s crazy. Didn’t want a book written about him, didn’t want to write a book. And now as an Ode to him. All the people that he served have teamed up and have written a book call. Check out that book. Trillion dollar coach z. We like to end each every show with a boom. Are you ready? I’m ready. From an optometry perspective, are you ready to go for my sandwich? I see. I see. I am Andrew, uh, psychologically and metaphysically and spiritually. Are you ready to do? Ooh, yes I am. John, are you, are you feeling the flow of your working on just physically ready? Here we go. Whoa.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay. Here we go. Three, two, one.
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