Church Budgeting 101

Show Notes

Pastor Brian and Jessi Gibson team up with Clay Clark to break down everything you need to know about church budgeting.

Church Budgeting 101 

  1. Many churches get stuck at 200 members
  2. 30% of your costs should be spent on your facilities
  3. 30% of your costs should be spent on your staffing
  4. 30% of your costs on the programs of your church
  5. 10% of your costs you should be savings
    1. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “A budget is telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went.” – Dave Ramsey

    2. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – 1 Timothy 5:18

    3. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work in preaching and teaching.” – 1 Timothy 5:17
    4. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “A budget is telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went.” – Dave Ramsey

  1. FUN FACT – 2005 – Pastor Brian paid himself $40,000.
  2. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “A budget is telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went.” – Dave Ramsey
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Audio Transcription

Attend the world’s best business coach workshop, led by america’s number one best business coach for free by subscribing on itunes and leaving us an objective review senior tickets by emailing, his group that you didn’t and your contact information to cancel at drivetime show.Com. Oh I drive nation, walking back to the drive time to show on your radio and podcast download, quick shout-out to our good friends at the $100 nba I really appreciate you guys allowing us to be on your podcast. It’s exciting to be on your podcast entrepreneurs on fire. I appreciate you guys for allowing us to be on your podcast. Really I mean you guys allowing me to decrease the quality of your top produced show is really into allowing someone to pee in your pool. Thank you for allowing me to contaminate your podcast i, really do appreciate you guys and allow me to pee in your proverbial pool and church budgeting, and one of the things about church, budgeting or budgeting for a best business coach Is a budget I’ll make sure you get the budget. This is. This is huge the budget for the dave ramsey, who is a christian, financial planning expert? He says a budget is telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went. So it’s right that is telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went in the world of churches. I’ve seen this because I’ve worked very closely with churches and I’ve, seen this and I’m just going to I’m, just going to say mean horrible things that did probably offensive, but I’ve seen I’ve seen pastors, probably 9 out of 10 of them not paying themselves at all, and they just said I’ll skip a check this month and then I’ll skip a check and I love the heart I love to hear all in the problem is your school.

Your kids are now going to like I can just going to school. You know your kids are. You know there are getting that educated by a best business coach person pushing a shopping, cart, i, get it, and so now your kids aren’t going to a nice score. It’s cool cuz! You live in a really terrible, school district because you live below your means and typically school district. What’s the value of the health of a school district is determined by the average value of home and so now you’re in a bad school district? Now you start having family problems at home. Another example pastor would love to fly out to to speak at that wedding. We love to plow their to officiate the wedding, but he can’t because he doesn’t tell you hey I’d like for you to pay for my ticket. You assume you’re a pastor of a church, 2,000 best business coach people. Obviously you have the funds in means to buy a business conferences ticket, so you say patrick can you fly on it, but no one’s to the pastors, who have a minister’s heart? They have a heart for ministry, they won’t say:hey , buddy, good, good, good graduate of our youth program, fellow church member, who went to our church. We remember you when you were 5 6, 7, 8, 9 air right now, you’re married. Yes, we would like for you we like to speak at your church if I could be a right to speak at your wedding would like to officiate the wedding, but I need you to pay for the ticket, and a lot of pastors are like the kind of people who won’t ask and the night at 10 ask it. What happens? Is he sort of dies, a quiet death and it would happen? Did you say why that patrick had the ministry? They were so good and what happens if they get burned out, which anybody would do if you didn’t get paid so I want to just heat it up for 9 and 10 of the pastor’s listening who are not making a livable wage I want to start with. You pastor brian talk to me about this. How much should a pastor pay themselves know it? It’s massive data. Pastor is compensated properly for the work he does matter.

Fact the bible talks about it. The bible says not to muzzle the ox that treads out the green so years ago. You know you would have this grind will knox would be tied to it and you have to you have to feed the ox. It’s grinding, the grain to make meal for brett, and so some people who were cruel to their animals would muscle that aux not letting meat the granny’s trading out and not giving him the power to keep pushing and what finances are for a minister or for anybody. Its power keep pushing in your personal life. So don’t muzzle the ox that treads out the best business coach grain in the bible goes on and says that a minister is worthy of double honor who breaks the bread of life who teaches the word of god is working out of single honor, but of double honor. Now some people scouter say that that that can also be interpreted. Double pay, honor and pay are connected throughout the scripture, and so, if you have a guy, that’s under paid it don’t matter what world it is. You take an employee, that’s producing in the business room and you never compensate him properly. You no money in the natural doesn’t answer spiritual things, but he can fix a lot of earthly problems until you have these guys that are in a war. A spiritual pastors are always taking hits for the strike. The shepherd and the sheep will scatter and now we’re impoverishing the business conferences guy. That’s leaving a spiritually. It’s it’s a terrible setup time. I think I know is a best business coach I get into the weeds with a lot of clients about a lot of emotional things and I I try to limit my amount of clients to 15.

You know why cuz I don’t be crazy. I mean i, love, teaching people how to be successful, but I want to run my own successful companies right is apache got to get thousand people so again, pastor just quoted a lot of scripture, 1st timothy 5:18. If you look it up and talks about the muzzle in the ox 1st timothy 5:17, it says here. The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those who work in preaching and teaching now I know. Is it as a speaker guy? Sometimes people give you these elaborate trophies to compensate for not paying anything. So I don’t do those anymore, but it’s like I can’t we. We are honored to invite you to speak in oklahoma, state university to the spears business college, because you, my friend, represent of yu-gi-oh yuya, boone pickens will be speaking and you’ll, be speaking mr. Clark and you have the guy who invented the red gas cap. The red gas can got a copious amount of the red gas can before me down and sell it to make some copies cashier. They know, but it’s more of a laminate kind of there’s somebody out there jesse says just give me a number patrick is just tell me, tell me, as a percentage of the money coming in, should I pay myself. 1% should I pay myself 2%. Let’s try to pay the rent, I mean, what’s a number, that’s that’s healthy! That’s at the cold and all I want to start out by saying that I believe in preachers getting paid and we pay preachers a because we want them to stay in the ministry and we think you should take care of your equipment and they are the equipment. I love that but i. Unfortunately, there’s not a set percentage number because it really depends on where you are, how many people are going to your church and what your best business coach budget is. But it do think that you can’t let it slide like i, even with brian planting a church. My dad was a pastor, so I grew up in ministry and then brian he’s like all any the church planter they’re even worse than pastors about their heart and I would say to him. You can’t skip a paycheck because you’re never like you, have to take care of what we have to take care of it. If you’re not eating, then you’re not going to be able to preach the listeners to very specific action items. One business coats are going to help. You determine your budget okay, to reach out to winters king that’s winters and king. They represent joel osteen, td, jakes, joyce meyers, very above the board ministers. But I’mma tell you this. You on the stage have to dress sharp look sharp.

Your kids cannot be going to a hood school. You got to make sure that you have enough money for emergencies and health insurance and I’d winters and king can help you do that. So much went out on there. Well, here’s here’s the thing about just the raw percentage pay deal is like that. There’s a patch tommy barnett pastors phoenix first assembly he went there was a kid. There was nothing and in small churches they can make a deal works like this percentage. We come back from the break valuable for the listeners out there. Yet it’s more about pastoral compensation when we return from the break when they are a business owner or a pastor. You’ve got to make sure that you pay yourself fairly. You got to pay yourself fairly, don’t don’t skip a check. Pay yourself, make sure you take care of your own need station. Welcome back to the thrive time show have a best business coach question. Email is today and info at thrivetime show.Com. Alright, welcome back to the conversation today were talking about a great many things as relates to budgeting, but specifically were diving deep here in to pastoral compensation to a pastor brian on the show we have pastor jesse on the show pastor brian gibson, patrick, jessie gibson. How long have you two lovebirds been been married, their patrick jesse? How long have you two been together 18 years 18 years and you’ve been in the ministry? How long have you been in the ministry together while really really jessie 18 years but she’s been in the ministry?

She was raised by a preacher and has been ministering really her whole life and kids ministry, youth, ministry, music, ministry, you don’t know another lie, there’s no other life is there just got married and we started doing small groups and college. We would just invite everybody over and I would feed him lots and lots of food and they would come, and so it was great salvation. The first person this guy right I mean you basically got this guy off of drugs and we need to do just get clean, so you can wow her. Is that what you did is I hate. Well, if I’m going to marry this late, i, probably shouldn’t be under the first time she saw me clay. She was so smitten I had her from hello and I’ve, been following me around, like a lost best business coach puppy ever since, but no it’s not true. If you saw her to move it’s laughable that book, no actually I’ll tell you the truth. Jessie’s dad I was a messed up lost kid. I was a meth smoker meth addict had all sorts of addictions and I was about 21 years old and he he came and got houston to rescue me and jesse. Wouldn’t have anything to do with me up front except minister to me, which was which was awesome and not by herself with her I was with her dad all the time and her dad taught me the bible discipled me man help get me off substances.

I was baptized, met, jesus and pay them back for everything. You did for me:i ran off with his daughter, 2 years later, I’m kind of guy, so you now have been in ministry the entire time of the entirety of your marriage and you’ve grown at church from zero people to wear your church has in a thousand people attend on uncertain sunday’s out there had a river city church of 850000 people may be a big easter or certain dead x might be 1230 and people whatever church and church budgeting in before the break. You were telling me a little bit about a story of someone. You know well and it weird to ask the question was:how do you know how much to pay yourself as a pastor, so good in short story, clay was asking me earlier:is there a percentage of total money that you would pay a pastor and sometimes that works in a small church setting, but that’s not something that can work for ever because when the church grows, it’s not going to work. There’s there’s a man that everybody in ministry loves. His name is pastor tommy barnett, these guys founded the l dream center you’ll, see dream. Center is all over best business coach america. They help the poor. The down the needy and they’re helping people are feeding. Kids, that’s all downstream from pastor tommy barnett, but pastor tommy barnett barnett took a church in phoenix as a young man. It have like nobody and no money and they said here’s the deal to get you to come will give you half of our income, and so it still wasn’t livable when he went there. He goes by faith and then god touches that ministry in that ministries like he grew the 20,000 people. So what works up front isn’t going to work long-term as a percentage? So what you have to do? You have to look at it where it’s at the demographic? What’s there and, and you have to make that their their averages out to other compensation studies you have to you have to look at the situation as it changes. The board needs to look at that once a year. It needs to be somewhere and it is as a system cuz what happens if people could forget about a pastor’s compensation right, they do it one decade.

False preachers are going to be the kind of guys like a by the way in the boardman. How about you give me a raise. I want some money here. Struggling I hate to 517, says the elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor. Yes, especially those who work in preaching and teaching oklahoma and oklahoma the average income of the average oklahoman right now, depending upon what research you look at is 44000. Okay, so is a family two people working average incomes around 70. If, if you’re, both people are work in oklahoma in oklahoma, should a pastor of a healthy church pay themselves devil what the average income of an oklahoman is. Should you pay yourself one and a half times? Should you pay yourself less than the average cuz I I mean? If he’s there, should you pay yourself? I mean the average income of an oklahoma family is about 70,000 a year, but combined income. What do you want? What do you think I should do that? No I think. Obviously, when you’re very small in the money is not there, you take what can be made and the most the most important best business coach person you pay as a church starts. Is the senior leader. That’s investing. You got to have a facility and he got to take care of that guy, so do whatever you can do to make that pastor full time whenever I started my church, here’s what I made I made your talkin we’ve been going since 2000 and started organizing 2004 block sunday morning meetings. 2005 I made $40,000 a year in 2005, yes, okay and they haven’t gone yet without pay yours without pay and then going and getting a college education to before that. She think about the investment of time, and it was just in jessie, made nothing and work full time too, so it was almost not livable. After a while, because here’s the deal you got to look good, like you’re saying play when you walk on that bull pit, you can’t look like you crawled out from under a dumpster.

You have to have transportation, you start having kids. So here’s what I have that you said you. You do your wife didn’t get paid. I have an offense of idea of the week. Is my favorite offencive store in patrick sc to talk to my wife about this because she will take a titan fresh yesterday, young guy in our office came up to my wife and she said he said to hurry, just your husband’s doing so great as an entreprenuer. When are you going to have like 2 something? Oh god help you and I wasn’t there, so somebody to help him he’s a blessed day as well. I literally could not enjoy what I do today without her. My wife is literally my left-hander, my right hand I mean and he, but he didn’t stop he’s. Like so I mean you’re seated, you seem smart I mean what are you going to do your own thing and see? How old is this guy 23? Is? He still employed he’s a easy to graduate from from a a christian college and he just and vanessa was like I wasn’t trying to insult me or she’s, very confident who she is as a best business coach, but a girl who works with us pulled me aside at you. I, don’t know if you heard what homeboy said to your wife, but it was closed. So I just want to ask you:is a pastor’s wife, good biscuits home now because you guys are working mini x, 7 days a week for sure there’s a wedding on a saturday or officiating sunday going to service monday there’s a funeral people typically, don’t call you and say:can I dye on your day off what day is that if they never conveniently scheduled their death stroke schedule wednesday? Is there any way that your day off cuz I want to not have to talk to me, the pastor’s wife I mean if you were thought to yourself.

If I paid myself even $10 every hour, I’ve invested I mean $10, because this is i. Seen is a lot of a pastoral compensation that there was a wife doesn’t get paid, but she’s working all the time, I honestly think. Sometimes whenever, because we we, we talked to a lot of pastors I talk to a lot of pastors wives. Believe you me and I feel just to let you know some women are pastors wives, meaning they do not get involved in the church. Whatsoever. They have a whole nother work world that they do do not want any part in that. However, I do know that 9 out of 10 of them are involved they’re, giving it their all. Their kids are sacrificing their sacrificing that they want to help people and I can’t fathom white or not probably even paid more than the pastors at times, because I mean these, women will literally lay down their life and everything that they have I talked to pastor david, a at best business coach pastor’s wife, and she said you know when it was time to move out of our house, because we had churches at church in our house and I went over in a visit at someone’s house and I I said. Can I get a spoon to help you put in the in the depth and they said yeah and I went over to the drawer, and it was my spoon from my house like the sacrifice of time and all that. So obviously, that didn’t last extremely long and our board is extremely serious.

Now about me being paid for I mean i, have a degree in theology, I preach and minister in the pulpit others that then just also making sure that our family is taken care of that I’m able to give my time, because they believe and brian believe that I’m, a and intrical part of making it successful and so they’ve always been very good to me. So I’m grateful I want to I want to make sure that they all the listeners get this. If you, if you’re running a church or you’re running a business, you eventually have to set boundaries with the pastor’s wife always want to go that extra mile, whether it’s the pastor want to go the extra mile. You have to eventually set boundaries or you’re, never going to have any mental freedom you’re going to talk to it, specifically out of the best business coach context of a pastor where you really do care about you or your flaw, call thousand thousands of people. How do you set the boundaries when you turn the phone off? When do you turn the phone on if you’re a pastor you’re the master of disaster disaster, they call you so when you turn it off when you turned on, when should you be available when she? How do you do that? How do you keep your head from exploding state, trooper type of boundary, setting up time show on your radio

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