Former NFL Player Turned Pastor Miles Mcpherson Shares How to Turn Your Dreams into Reality

Show Notes

Former NFL player turned pastor, Miles McPherson shares how he was able to overcome his drug addictions into route to growing the 20,000 member “The Rock Church.”

On today’s show we interview the former NFL player turned pastor, Miles McPherson as he shares about:

  1. How he was able to overcome his drug addictions into route to growing the 20,000 member “The Rock Church.”
  2. The intensity of violence of today’s NFL.
  3. Why NFL All-Pro Quarterback Drew Brees was willing to write the forward for his new book.
  4. His relationship with my favorite minister of all time, Bishop TD Jakes.
  5. Why he believes that his new book The Third Option: Hope for a Racially Divided Nation can help every listener to learn how to bridge the racial divide and much, much more.

Show Notes –

Book: The Third Option

  1. Yes, Yes and Yes! On today’s show, we are interviewing the former NFL football player turned Pastor, Miles McPherson.
  2. Miles, welcome onto the Thrivetime Show, how are you sir?!
  3. Miles, as a Pastor you are changing lives and doing what I believe God has called you to do, but I would like to start today’s how by starting at the bottom and asking you to share about your childhood and what it was like growing up for you?
    1. I grew up in New York with two brothers and sisters.
    2. I am mixed raced so I got harassed growing up in the 60s
    3. I was a football player so we got along with the team
    4. It was a slow burn being harassed. You deal with it every day. One day I was at a friends house and he called me the “N” word in front of his mother and she didn’t do anything. It made me realise that kids will always find a way to bully you and adults don’t always take action.
  4. Miles Mcpherson, many people know that you went on to play in the National Football League, but when did it first occur to you that you had a legitimate chance to play in the National Football League?
    1. I knew when I was 8
    2. I started as a running back at 10 years old. I knew I was going to make it. My belief that I was going to do it never changed since I was a little kid.
  5. Miles, what was your best and worst moment as a professional football athlete and why?
    1. Two of the highlights were:
      1. The day I got drafted from a small school
      2. When I was named a started
    2. Some of the low spots of my career were
      1. When I blew my knee out. In one split second and my career was over.
  6. Miles, most of our listeners have only watched the NFL on TV…I would love for you to explain how intense, fast and brutal the game was during your playing days?
    1. Now, the guys are so much faster, bigger and stronger.
    2. They weren’t guys who were that big and fast back in the day but when you get hit and hurt your knee, the hits are still big.
  7. Miles, my understanding, and I could be wrong is that you were battling a drug problem, before becoming a Christian. What kinds of drugs were you taking and how were you able to quit taking drugs?
    1. I went to Catholic school and that is when I learned the fear of God
    2. I started smoking weed at 16
    3. One day I was in a grocery store when two guys walked up to me and told me about Jesus.
    4. I realized that having a relationship with God is different than having a religion
    5. 2 weeks after that, I didn’t get high or have sex with my girlfriend but since I didn’t have anyone to hold me accountable I fell back into it.
    6. I got into cocaine when I was in the NFL
    7. There were guys on my team who were doing bible studies on the plane and would try to get me to become a Christian
    8. One day, I was doing cocaine all day and my heart was pounding. I realized that I could kill myself with these habits. I prayed and decided to follow God.
  8. Miles, when did you first become a Christian and what were the events surrounding this life-changing event?
    1. I was so deep into drugs.
  9. Miles, you retired from football in September of 1986 and the VERY next week you decided to enroll in Azusa Pacific University’s School of Theology. When did you know that it was time to retire from football and when did you decide that it was the right time to enroll in Azusa Pacific University’s School of Theology?
    1. In 16 years, I was a youth pastor. I went to a church that started at 600 people and we grew it to 3,000 people in 3 years.
    2. I decided to start “The Rock Church” and on the first day, we had 3,300 people because we had a long runway.
  10. Miles Mcpherson, in 2000 you founded the Rock Church, what inspired you to start the church and how did you go about reaching your first 100 members?
    1. We have 6 physical campuses and online. If you add it all up, that is over 20,000 people. Our first 100 members were reached because of our long runway.
  11. Miles, I’ve done my research and it seems as though 10’s of thousands of people attend your church on a weekly basis. From your perspective as a pastor, how many people do you believe that The Rock Church is reaching on a weekly basis?
    1. 20,000 people weekly
  12. Miles, throughout your career you’ve been asked to speak at the “2018 Republican National Convention,” Larry King Live, The O’Reilly Factor and on other major national news networks. What have been a few of your favorite media appearances and why?
    1. I like media. It has all been enjoyable and rewarding.
    2. I love hearing about how encouraged people are when they hear what I have to say.
  13. Miles, throughout your career you’ve written 10 books that I could find, but I would love to ask you. What inspired you to write The Third Option: Hope for a Racially Divided Nation so special?
    1. We honor what we have in common. We are 99.5% genetically the same. We are all made in the image of God. We have more in common than what we have differences.
    2. “When people get a tan in Hawaii we want to celebrate it but when people get a tan in the womb people want to invalidate it.”
  14. Miles, the foreword of your book is written by the incredible New Orleans Saints quarterback, Drew Brees. What is your relationship with Drew like?
    1. He lives here off season
  15. Miles, I would love to break down each part of your book at what it’s truly about.
    1. Miles – Part 1 – Framing the Problem, what is this portion of your book all about?
      1. The book isn’t about how not to be racist. It is about how to be honoring.
      2. If someone tells you that you offended them racially, it doesn’t make you a racist, but you have to acknowledge that they are offended.
      3. If we can’t accept that you can make a racially offensive comment and not be racist.
  16. Miles, your book has been endorsed and recommended by many people including the Pastor I listen to every morning while getting ready for work, brother T.D. Jakes, the senior pastor of the Potter’s House church who describes your book as, “A discussion about race that we desperately need…a must read.” How did you first meet Pastor Jakes?
    1. I met him several times through a friend. Then I brought him in to our church for his book “Soar
    2. God brought us together through the pain of my mother’s death
    3. He would take my call and we would talk for an hour.
  1. Miles Mcpherson, you come across as a person who chooses to be very intentional with your time, what do the first four hours of your typical workday look like and what time do you typically wake up?
    1. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “Plan your day before your day”
    2. I get up at 4:30 AM
    3. I pray
    4. Read the bible until I hear something that I can write down
    5. I worship
    6. I workout
    7. I eat breakfast
      1. I eat oatmeal or eggs
      2. Turkey sausage
      3. Fruit
      4. Healthy and organic
      5. I only drink water
      6. No sugar, dairy or bread
  2. What advice would you have for a start and stopper?
    1. Give your life to Jesus
      1. You were made to have a relationship with God
        1. When that happens, your purpose is shown to you
        2. You have to know what your strengths are that God gave you
        3. When you see what you are created for, that is when you have the most joy.
        4. You could have all of the money in the world and still be unhappy.
      2. Walk in a relationship with God
  3. Why should someone pick up your book?
    1. This book is designed to improve you to have conversations and build relationships with people who come from a different background.
    2. It will open up your eyes to things that you didn’t even know.
    3. It is supposed to be encouraging and empowering.
    4. It is in simple language with simple stories.


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Audio Transcription

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On today’s show. We interviewed the former NFL player turn to pastor miles McPherson as he shares about how he was able to overcome his personal drug addictions and route to growing the 20,000 member, the Rock Church, the intensity and the violence of today’s NFL. Why Nfl? All pro quarterback drew Brees was willing to write the forward for his new books.

Hi Man. Hey Bro. The heart, you said he was last night. All identity. This brotherhood, is it sugar? What is fun to hunt this play for their master’s trust in the man next to trust him. Play for we get to learn about his relationship with my favorite minister of all time. Get Ready, get ready, get ready. Bishop TD Jakes.

You’ll see really big people. Don’t act small. I’ve been blessed in my life. Born in the hills of West Virginia on the side of a mountain and a little raggedy house that will support it by four by four posts. We sat out there, we had one floor foreignness and all the whole family be standing over top of the furnace trying to stay warm in the winter. I know what it is to come from meager beginnings. I’ve also been to the tops of the mountains. I’ve been with the greatest of the great upset with the last three presidents upset with lion heads of state. I’ve sent with CEO, executive actors and entertainers at the top of their industry have the top of their careers. I’ve been with the greatest lawyers in this country if they negotiated deals navigating and closing, and I learned that there is a characteristic amongst great people that other people don’t know

his new book. The third option, hook for a racially divided nation was written to bridge the racial divide that exists between people like you and people like them. Ladies and Gentlemen, it is my pleasure to introduce to you an incredible guest, a man who I have a lot of respect for, a bestselling author and the past of the rock church. Mr. Miles Mcpherson,

to the thrive time show.

He started the bottom.

Yes, yes, yes. And yes. On today’s show we have an incredible guest, former NFL player turned pastor Mr. Miles Mcpherson. Mr. Miles,

welcome onto the thrive time show. How are you sir?

What’s up

brother? I am excited to have you on the show. I know our listeners are as well and I, I would love to start today’s show by going to the very bottom were, or the very beginning. Could you share with us about your, your childhood and what it was like for you growing up?

Yeah. You know, I grew up new, had two brothers and two sisters and I am a mixed race. My grandparent, my two grandfathers, a black one white grandmother wasn’t have Chinese black grandmother. So I grew up in a black neighborhood and got harassed because I wasn’t black enough and school in a white neighborhood my life, uh, first eight grade and got harassed there because I was black. So I was dealing with a lot of racism growing up. And, uh, and it was in the 60s, so the culture was very divided. Um, but, but I was a football player, so when I was playing football from age of 10, I, you know, we all got along great in the huddle and on a football field. But the culture was so divided.

You know, I grew up where I stuttered as a kid, which is the great irony of life that I have know a am radio show that’s in different markets and I do a podcast and I couldn’t really talk until I was, you know, 13, 14 years old and the kids were, were merciless. I remember getting on the bus and just being taunted and just not, I mean, just, it was, it was brutal and it probably wasn’t anything close to what you dealt with. But what was the lowest of the low for you being mocked by either African Americans or white kids? I mean, what was the lowest moment where you thought, man, this is what have I done to deserve this? I mean, what, what was the low point for you?

It was a slow burn because you know, you, you deal with it every day. And when you’re little kid, I’m a lot of stuff I probably can’t remember, but I do remember one day being at a friend’s house and he called me the n word or harm his mother and his, and it was almost like, hey, mom watched this and she didn’t do anything. And I felt like, wow, you know, I guess, you know, not even adults are going to stand up and, and that, that was something I’ve never forgotten. Um, but you know, when you’re a little kid, as you know, kids are brutal. So you deal with a lot of that stuff all the time and you always in the back yard, you know, whether it’s color or you’re overweight or you, you know, you got freckles or whatever it is. Kids always find a way to make fun of somebody and pick somebody out. And I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening right now who dealt with some form of discrimination, hate or, you know, being bullied to some degree. Yeah. And, but deep down inside you’re like, man. And one day, one day I’m going to get out of this. And one day it’s going to change.

You went on to play in the national football league. Um, when did it occur to you in, in high school that you had, or college you had a legitimate chance to actually play in the NFL? When did you think, okay, I could actually do this?

I knew that when I was like eight really? Well, when I was, when I was about eight years old, I’m taking an eight, seven, nine. Yeah. We used to play football, my uncles and my dad. And I was like, look, give me the ball. I could shake it and break ankles, all these adults. And then I started playing at 10 and I was a running back, which was my favorite position. And, and you know, I’m 10 years old, these guys can’t stop me. You can’t stop it. So when you’re that young, you know, every little kid has a dream to every little kid. A whole lot of little kids have a dream. So my belief that I could do it never changed since that younger age. And you know, you really don’t really know. No one really knows. Um, you know, there are a million kids who knew they were going to go pro and never did and the ones that just happened to go, we’re the ones that appear to be right. But there’s so many factors and going, you know, there’s a lot of luck involved, you know, a lot of staying healthy and getting the right opportunity. But I, my belief that I can do it was, it kind of never changed since I was little. A little kit.

What was the the best and the worst moment of your professional football career?

Um, you don’t, I think that one of the most, two of the highlights was the day I got drafted. I went to a division three school in Connecticut. We had 2,500 people in our school.

My friend. It doesn’t even make sense that you are drafted. It’s unbelievable.

Yeah. You know, we had a football game where rain so hard with 15 people at the gate and five of them on my pet, my family. So, you know, we had a very small program and getting drafted from that school and just getting drafted was one of the best days of my life. And I think another best day was when I was named a starter and you know, it was going to my first started in my first game. That was a big deal to me.

Do you remember a low point in your and your career as a professional football player where you thought, wow, that really hurt or that was owed happened? It didn’t go the way I wanted it to go. Or this feeling of overwhelm or was there a low point in your NFL career?

Oh yeah. Thousands. I would tell you, you know, you live with this down, are you going to get cut? Because they sign a hundred guys that go in training camp and every week they cut 10 guys give or take. So I got cut three times. The first time I got cut, they come and tell you, you know, you’re, you’re done. And that’s it. They don’t pay you, you’re, you’re gone. And so that happened to me three times. Um, though that was hard but getting hurt, you know, I was started in 1984 we were playing the Raiders on a Monday night at the coliseum when they were in la and I was going to intercept the ball and my old man ran into me and blew my knee out. That was the end of my career. That was a low point because you know, we were playing really well. Um, I was starting and then it was over in one split second and then, and you know, I had surgery like the next day I think it was, and drove home on the bus from La to San Diego next to the doctor, you know, what ice on my knee and I knew it was over. And so that, that was a low point,

intense, fast and brutal. How would you describe what it’s like to be on an NFL field? How I went to see the patriots versus the Redskins in Foxborough. My wife surprised me and I was sitting like in the 49 yard line and you’re like, row seven. And I was watching special teams and on TV it’s different, but these guys are running down there and I’m not even watching the guy who has the ball. I’m just watching these people like joust each other. It’s crazy how intense the hits are. I just wanted to run up there and hug everybody and lay hands on people and talk to me about the intensity and the violence of the game that close.

Well, I’ll tell you, it’s, it’s a lot different now. The guys are so much faster, stronger and bigger. You know, I was just watching Instagram, uh, Erin, dawn, Donald’s from um, Aaron Donald from the rams. He was 290 pounds and he ran a four or five in his combine. What? I ran a four five as a defensive back and even the backs of their one four fives, right? But this guy has almost 300 pounds. You know, that they weren’t guys then who did that. But it is dangerous. I remember being on the sideline after I got my, after I had surgery on my knee. And you know, when you have surgery, you know, when you’re in a cast for six weeks, whatever it is, your legs shrivels up to like a spaghetti. And so I’m on the sideline watching the game and I’m thinking, I’m not going back out there. It looks so violent. And I’m thinking that my knee at that time would not be able to take anything because it was, my leg was just gone. But it is very violent. And people who watch on TV don’t really, they’re not really seeing reality. You have to stand on the sideline to feel it and to hear it, um, to really know how fast and violent, um, and how, how quick things happen.

You know, you, you became a Christian and now obviously you’re, you’re a pastor and an author. Um, what prompted you to become a Christian or, or were you raised in that background? I think a lot of listeners out there don’t know your background.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I went to Catholic School for eight years and in the Catholic school I learned a fear of God. You know, we had nuns that they did not play. I, I so appreciate them because they’d got a straight, um, and then when I was 19 and I started smoking weed when I was 16 and when I was 19 years old, I was going to end department store. And these two hippies walked over to me. It looked like Charles Manson type dudes and, and they shared that Jesus died for me. He rose from the dead and one have a relationship with me. And having a relationship with God was different than being in a religion. And it wasn’t a rules thing. It was a relationship thing. And I’m remember praying there and, and telling Jesus that I, I knew I was a sinner, that he died for my sin and rose from the dead.

And I said, Jesus, give, I’m giving my life to fill me with the Holy Spirit. And he established an organic relationship where, you know, we’re made in the image of God so he can live in us like, like a glove is made in the image of a hand so they can fit inside. And still the spirit of God came inside of me and I was like, okay, now this is what it’s about. And I remember for about two weeks I didn’t get high anymore and, and have sex with my girlfriend, which we were doing every day. And I just felt like I got to honor God and, but no one, I didn’t have anybody in my life to help me understand and grow. So I fell back into that for five more years, started doing cocaine when I got drafted to the NFL. Wow. And my first two years in the NFL, I got to come from the ranch and went to the charges and I was originally drafted by the Los Angeles Rams then when it got cut and went to the San Diego chargers.

But my first two years I was doing cocaine and you know, I was just, you know, a guy going wide and uh, they will guys in my team who was doing Bible study on the plane, they were talking about Jesus on the plane and I knew that I had prayed to ask Christ to be my savior. He is before. And so I was just thinking, I gotta, I gotta reestablish and recommit my life to him. And so one day I was on my couch, five o’clock in the morning, I was doing cocaine all night and my heart was pounding out of my chest. I thought I was going to have a heart attack and I just said, oh Jesus, I’m going to recommit my life to, and I stopped doing cocaine that day and stopped smoking weed that day and it got back on my girlfriend that day, which was 35 years ago when we got married that year. Really never got hired again. Never did cocaine again.

Did you ever play football? Hi.

Nope. Never. The only time I ever won, one time in high school, I had smoked weed before practice and football was kind of sacred to me. And so I never, I never practiced how I never got it said that one time in high school. But other than that, you know, when I went to football practice it was like, you know, this was very serious. So I never played high, never practice high except that one time.

So you, after retiring from football, you, you became a Christian and you’re, you’re, you’re, you attended a Asuza Pacific University School of Theology. If I, if I’m correct, how did you go out? How did you go about getting or gaining or reaching ministering to your first 100 members? Like how did you find these people where you, you know, did you go to parks and throw footballs at people where you’re doing a makeup? We had a megaphone, where are you going door to door? Were you feeding people? How did you go out there and how can we have, we have so many pastors that listen to this show who emailed me, you said, hey, I, I love that other, we had a, a pastor Craig Rochelle on the show and it’s so it’s, you know, obviously the founder of one of the largest Protestant churches in America right now. I think people are always infinitely curious about how something is big as the rock church starts.

Well, yeah, I had a long runway, so I, when I committed my life to the Lord is 1984 we started a church in 2016 years, 16 years, 16 years. I was a youth pastor. I became a teaching pastor at night at a church where we had, it started from, it’s 600 people. We grew it to over 3005 years. And it was just at night at a church. And then, so we had over 3000 people every week. Um, and then I went when week from teaching that those two services at night on a Sunday. The next week we started the church. We had 3,300 people our first day. And so there was a long runway of me ministering and preaching and San Diego travel around the country preaching, doing crusades, um, before we started our church. So it was a lot of, a lot of hard work in the community.

You, uh, your, your church, the rock. I looked it up and you never know how accurate these these things are, but it appears as though your church has maybe 10,000 people that are attending your church and I ain’t given week. Is that, is that about correct with what the Rock Church at this point or how many people typically attend the Rock Church?

Well, if we have five physical physical caspases, one on one of those campuses, multiple portables, and then online, if you add all that up, it’s over 20,000. Um, yeah.

Um, do you, did you ever meet a brother Carlton Pearson? Dear me, Carlton Pearson,

I think I met him. I know his sister a lot better than him.

He was a famous, so, you know, tape televangelist from Tulsa. I went to oral Roberts University, but I was not a Christian when I went to [inaudible], which is hilarious. But I went there because I thought it would be a safer place for me to start my DJ entertainment company, which is hilarious. But, uh, Carlton Pearson was a big mentor in my life and it never really occurred to me that he was African American until people pointed out like, Hey, you know, this guys who, who’s mentoring you is African American. But it, but it seemed like it, I don’t know if it bothered people are unsettled people, they just didn’t. Can you talk to me about this, this book you wrote here, the third option, hope for a racially divided nation because I think so many people get hung up on the fact clay, you know, your mentors and African American guy. I mean, what’s that like? I’m like, I dunno. I Dunno. What if I never thought about that? What’s going on? Why are we so racially divided?

Yeah. You know what, every race conversation, it’s about us versus them. It’s less verse, right? CNN versus Fox, there’s always a cause of division in our culture bunch and you’re always forced to pick a side. True. The book’s called the third option because the third option is that we honor what we have in common. Um, even though you’re white and I’m black, you know, we’re 99.5%, genetically the same. We’re all made in the image of God. We all want to enjoy food and sleep and relationships and pursue a career and understand our purpose in life. So we have more in common than we are different. We have a different experience, but there’s so many other things that we are exactly the same. And so the book is designed to, uh, empower us and give people tools to honor what we have in common. Um, uh, amidst the racial division in our country and, and even seeing colors.

One of those things, a lot of people will say they don’t see color, but when in fact, we do and should, we should honor color because God made it and he made it because he’s creative and every color has a different burden and a different experience. I remember the first time someone told me they didn’t see my color. I thought they had a s a stigmatism. And really what, what they said is, no, no, I just don’t see your color. So I said, well, how do you know I have a color not to see if you don’t see it? Oh, there we go. So, you know, um, and then I asked them, well, what, what color did you make me? Because I am Brown. And so you must have acknowledged something you wanted to ignore. Um, instead of saying, no, God made me Brown and you should, you should celebrate that.

And, and just like God made you white, I should celebrate that. You know, when people get a Tan and Hawaii, we want to celebrate it. But when people get a Tan and a wound, we want to invalidate it and ignore it. Um, so I talk about things like that, different ways to look at, um, how do we honor each other and respect each other for the, for the humans that God made us and bring back the humanity versus just trying to make, make believe everything’s fine. And the same for everybody because we all have different experience.

Your, uh, the foreword to Your Tier Book is written by Drew Brees, the New Orleans saints, a famous quarterback who’s probably known, uh, for being a great guy as much as he’s known for being a great quarterback. Uh, what’s your relationship with drew like?

Well, you know, he lives here in the off season, so I see him pretty much every off season. And, and when he was playing, um, myself and a group of alumni would go to practice every week and I would basically talk to the team and then we would give the player of the week award away from the alumni. And in that experience I got to know him, see him every weekend and now I see him, you know, at the gym cause he works out at a gym that his own, his trainer, it goes to my church. And so I just see him around at the gym and sometimes in town. But he’s just a great guy. I mean he really is. He really is a family guy and down to earth you would never know he was the hall of fame, but you would think he worked at the bank. He’s just a regular sweet guy.

Now part two of your book, you know, in your book you have part one, part two, part three. I want to talk about part one, framing the problem. What is this portion of your book all about?

Well, it’s very important for us to understand what racism is and it, the book’s really not about how not to be racist. It’s more about how to be honoring. You know, every, every one of us had the potential of being racially offensive, but that doesn’t necessarily make us a racist. Um, and that’s so important to understand because if someone tells you that you offended them racially and you had no idea, it doesn’t necessarily make you a racist, but it doesn’t also eliminate the fact that they were offended. And so it’s very important for us to understand that there are some things that we may do out of a nervousness or eight threats that may be offensive. And we just have to give ourselves the opportunity in the room to, to, to learn and change without bearing the guilt of being a racist. Now there are people who are racist, but a lot of us, we may say things that are offensive and we didn’t mean it.

And we don’t, we shouldn’t carry that label and the burden because if we can’t separate those two things and we can’t, if we can’t accept that we can be racially offensive and not be a racist, we will resist having these conversations because we’re not going to want people to point out something that where we can be at fault, thus make us a racist. So we avoid it. And that’s where conversations don’t happen and therefore healing doesn’t happen. And so the first part of the book is to really understand me. You know, the book is me, you, we, and how do you know? How do I see people? What am I blind spots? I talked about two chapters on blind spots. What don’t I know? I don’t even know. And so it really challenges people to, to look inside and evaluate how they group themselves with people and against people. Um, and, and how, what kind of blind spots they have and what kind of fears they have for people.

Td Jakes has endorsed your book and I listened to Td Jakes every morning and I just, I, I find myself, before I hit the play button on Youtube, I usually hit the play button before I hop in the shower. And I found myself wanting to say I get ready to get ready to get ready. I mean, I just, he is such a source of inspiration. Um, he has, uh, he has this way of illuminating the word [inaudible] where you, it’s like you’re reading the word for this for the first time, you know, things you could read over as you’re reading the Bible. You might skip over and not recognize the significance of that particular portion of the Bible. Um, what’s your relationship with, with brother Td Jakes? Like, I mean, how did you meet TD Jakes and, and, uh, what’s your relationship with him like?

You know, I met him several times through a friend at different events and then I’m brought him in to the church to interview him for his book. Soar is a business book. Yeah. And when that was going on, my mother was, was dying and ended up dying and his mother had passed away years ago. So God kind of brought us together through the pain of my mother’s death. And He, um, minister to me through that time. I mean, he said, listen, every time you want to talk, give me a call. I didn’t know how serious he was. And there were several times where I just, you know, just say, Hey, I text him and said, can you talk in the next thing you know, we’re on the phone for an hour and he’s really gay. I don’t know how he finds an hour. It’s life. He was always available and we just became friends.

And I told him about the book and he said, man, I want to help you launch this book because this message is so powerful. So then he helped me launch the book. I spoke at his church. I did a podcast with him. And so today we’re friends. I mean, you know, mostly through texts and phone calls here and there. He’s in Dallas. I’m in San Diego, but I consider him a dear friend. He was one of those guys who even though I had just established a relationship with them, he was a friend to stick, stuck closer than a brother. And he was literally was there for me during my darkest time when my mom passed,

you know, TD Jakes and his from a literary perspective, he’s represented by the same law firm that I use, I winters and king. And so I always hear great things about TD Jakes from the winters and King folks. And it just seems like the more I hear about him, the better, the more and more impressed I am. You know, some people that closer you get to them where the more you hear about him you go, oh, but this guy, I mean TD Jakes, he is just, this is just another great TD Jakes story. Now as far as with your book here, um, TD Jakes on the outside of your book, he wrote here, he says, this is a discussion. Your book is a discussion about race that we desperately need a must read for the listeners out there, you know, you know how it goes here, pastor Miles Mcpherson you know, there’s somebody out there, they’re spending a lot of money at this this month on burritos and random things. They shouldn’t be buying it. Convenience stores, you know, one hour, one hour energies and things like that. And we’re going, can I delay gratification and could I set aside the $20 needed to buy this book right now? Andrew’s going to buy a copy of your book right now on Amazon right now. It’s going to be shipped to me right now. Why should all the listeners out there pick up a copy of this book?

Every single one of us, whether we like it or not, are negatively impacted by racism. And one of the easiest ways to know that is, uh, how you feel when someone brings it up. I mean we get nervous, we get hot, we avoid it. It’s a, it’s a topic a lot of people don’t want to talk about. This book is designed to empower you to have those conversations, empower you to be more comfortable when the topic comes up, to be more informed. And it’s also going to incredibly in an incredible way, empower you to build better relationships with people that come from a different background. And so I think it’s a must read for people and it’s going to open your eyes to things you didn’t know that you didn’t even know. Um, I can’t tell you many people comment to me. Black and white people, Mexican people who say exactly the same thing. I didn’t know that. And it really helped me see how I can be better without being, um, uh, accused or attacked or criticized. It’s, it’s a, I wrote it to be encouraging and empowering for people to learn these hard topics that we see on TV. And then people talk about, I put it in very simple language with a lot of stories, people from my family and friends, but people who want to be empowered and be equipped to have discussions at least be aware of what’s going on. That this book is for them.

Now you have, throughout your career, you’ve had a lot of different major media appearances. You were asked to, to speak at the Republican National Convention, Larry King Live, I believe, uh, the O’Reilly factor or other major national news networks. Do you have a few media appearances where you thought that was a lot of fun? I mean, do you have a one? Do you ever have a couple where you have to pinch yourself and say, what am I doing up here? Come on. I can’t believe this has happened for me. Is there one that was the most fun for you or when we wait, we had to pinch yourself and just kind of, wow, this is happening.

I, you know, um, I like the media. I tell you Larry King, when he was on the radio, on TV, but he had the big radio microphone. He was great cause I love the airbrush makeup they gave me, but I just, I, you know, I like media. I like all of it. I mean I think all of it has been enjoyable and rewarding, especially when people, um, I was just, I was just on, on TV in Dallas, um, uh, a few weeks ago and I was at the airport like hour later and a lady said, where’s you just on TV? And you know, it was actually, I was in DC, I was on two morning shows back to back and Laci here. And, and just for people, not, not that she recognized me, but that she commented around encourage you was by what she heard. And so I was talking about the book and um, so I, you know, I, I like it all is, it’s always been very encouraging and very fun to people and made it very professional and they deal with it.

Hey, will you, I just have a slide ask on behalf of our listeners out there and I probably overstepping the bounds here, but we will run for president at some point. Will you do that for me? Is that something you could do? Just kind of squeeze that into your schedule? Would you ever run for elected office?

Nope. Nope. You wouldn’t do it? Nope.

Okay. I just, I’m just saying I saw you speak at a convention. You looked very electable. You’re sharp. I just, I couldn’t agree more with your points. Uh, no, no interest at all. Never. Nope, not gonna do it. Okay. Okay, fine. I step away from that request. That’s fine. I respect that. Now you are a guy who is very proactive. You also are a man who runs a church that’s growing and in your, your um, how, how do you stay on top of it all? What are the first four hours of your typical day? What are the first four hours of, of your, of your typical day look like and what time do you wake up?

That’s a good question. The people listening, I learned some very powerful lessons and if you haven’t been writing anything down, write this down. Okay. Start Your Day. Plan your day before your day. I mean, I, I try to write down the day before what I’m going to do the next day. I have a set start my day plan that’s already written every day. And so I don’t, I don’t have to write that down. I get up around four 30. Got It. Try to spend, um, you know, I have a pray, read the Bible, write notes and I have to read. My goal is to read the Bible to the point why, here’s something that I can actually write down. Got It. So it was not a task. I’m actually want God speak to me about something that’s going to apply to me today. Um, and then, you know, I had it’s prayer time and um, maybe some worship and then I go work out, eat breakfast and that’s about two hours, two and a half hour process to three, two to three hours.

Why don’t you, what you, what do you allow yourself to eat? You are, you are, you’re staying in great shape. I mean, I don’t know if the, if the chargers need somebody to have to fill in on defense at any point. But if you do, you probably could get in there for a few snaps. You looked like you’re staying in great shape. What, what do you, what do you allow yourself to consume in terms of food?

Well, let’s be clear. I could not do that.

Okay. Is this okay? You did not make that claim. This Justin, that’s a cowbell moment.

We’ll get some clarifying. I appreciate you saying, I looked at, we cannot play this. Just answer. Okay. And to be honest with you, I waited the exactly the same, but I played 30 something years ago. But, but I, I could run, I could fake it, but I couldn’t, I wouldn’t want to anybody or get hit. Um, I eat oatmeal or eggs and Turkey sausage pretty much every day. All wheel fruit. Uh, I do eat healthy organic food, but yeah, my breakfast is pretty simple. I don’t want to eat a lot. Try to stay away from sugar, stay away from dairy, stay away from bread.

So no, no wheat, no sweets for you. You, you’re keeping it organic. No wheat, no sweets. Is that a move for you?

I didn’t say sweet. I said sugar. Natural sweetener, like Stevia.

Okay. Okay. Okay. How about this? Do you, do you, uh, what, what calories do you not allow yourself to drink?

What calories?

Yeah. Do you avoid like sugary beverages? I mean, are you kind of like,

yeah, I just drink water. Just water. I haven’t had a soda and I haven’t had a can of soda and I don’t know, 10 years I don’t drink. So,

so for the listeners out there that are

saying, you know what, I might not ever get a chance to meet pastor Miles Mcpherson and sit down with him for coffee one on one. But if you could sit down with our listeners out there, someone who’s really curious and they’re saying, pastor miles, I want to turn my life around. I want to, I want to get on a, I want to become a proactive person. I’m tired of being a reactive person. I, I want to move beyond being an I, a person who intense. I want to be somebody who actually gets it done. I want to become a finisher. What advice would you have for somebody out there who’s a star? His a bit been a start and stopper their whole life up until right now. I would say the first thing you need to do is give your life to Jesus. And here’s what you were made to have a relationship with God, not in your head and your heart that comes by the presence of the spirit of God living in you.

And, and when that happens, God opens your eyes spiritually to your purpose. Unless you’re living on purpose, uh, and using your gifts and talents that God gave you. There’s some things God enabled you and created you to do and there are certain things God doesn’t want you to do. I love math. And so I’m always dabbling with numbers that gives me joy. There are other people who hate numbers and they shouldn’t do dabble in numbers. I love to speak in public. If I, if I couldn’t speak and motivate people and challenge people, I would die. And so I know what my strengths are. You have to know what your strengths are that God gave you and don’t live against that. And when you are in relationship with the living God and he is showing you who you are, what you were created for, uh, that’s when you’re going to have the most joy you can.

You can make a lot of money and still be miserable. You could broken deals because you’re not doing what God calls you to do. So I would, I would tell God, listen, I’m a sinner just like everybody else. The Bible says all have sinned. I would tell God, I believe Jesus died and rose from the dead and I would ask Jesus to forgive you of your sin and come live in your heart. That’s the first thing. After that, I would then say, okay Lord, I want to, and we’re going to walk in a relationship and you’re going to show me why you made me. Because God made you for a very specific purpose and you’re going to be most fulfilled when you fulfill that purpose and you will not be able to get up early enough in the morning to get the work. And I say work to get to do when he’s calling you to do because it’ll be the most fulfilling thing you can be.

Pastor miles, I can’t thank you enough for taking time out of your, out of your schedule to be here on the podcast. Hopefully this was not the worst, but podcast you’ve ever been on a, you certainly were the highlight of my day and I, I appreciate you again for just a inspiring our listeners. I encourage everybody out there. If you’re listening today, if you can hear this broadcast, go on Amazon or find the book, the third option, wherever great books are sold, pick it up today. The third option, hope for a racially divided nation. Again, thank you so much, sir. Take care. We like to end each

and every show with a boom and so now pretty forthright, dude. Here we go. Three, two, one. Boom.

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