Grandmaster of Memory Ed Cooke Shares How Everyone Can Dramatically Improve Their Memory

Show Notes

London based entrepreneur and “Grandmaster of Memory” Ed Cooke teaches memory techniques to dramatically improve our ability to learn. Throughout his career Ed has been featured in the New York Times, the Tim Ferriss Show and other leading media outlets.

    1. Thrive Nation, on today’s show we have the honor of interviewing the incredible Ed Cooke! Ed, how are you sir?!
    2. Ed Cooke, for the listeners out there that are not as familiar with your background…I would love for you to share what you do on a professional basis?
      1. I am known locally for my eccentric hat wear
      2. I am known more internationally for my participation in memory challenges and for creating apps and programs to aid in memorization
    3. Ed, I first heard about you as a result of your 2015 interview with Tim Ferriss. How did you and Tim first meet and what is your relationship like?
      1. I met Tim through a friend of mine, Greg.
      2. We became friends over certain disagreements.
      3. Tim believes that you should do everything quicker and more efficient and I believe in more of a spontaneous lifestyle.
    4. Ed, you are now known as a “Grand Master of Memory.” What does it mean to be a “Grand Master of Memory?”
      1. It is a silly title but there is an international circuit of memory competitions where people get together and memorize numbers and decks of cards.
      2. In this community there is an award where you are called the Grand Master of Memory.
        1. You have to memorize 1,000 numbers in 1 hour
        2. 10 decks of cards
    5. What was your life like growing up?
      1. I didn’t grow up with any special abilities or any isolation from the outside world. I had a fairly normal childhood.
      2. When I was 18 I came across books that spoke of these memory champions. I discovered the world of speeding up and amplifying the act of memorising.
      3. Most of my abilities come from training myself.
    6. Ed Cooke, Rumor has it that you came up with the idea for VINE, is this true and how did the idea come to you?
    7. Ed, what are a few practical action steps that all of our listeners can take if they desire to improve their memories?
      1. You have to understand that we all are good at remembering the right kinds of things. If something memorable happens, we will remember it.
      2. What we do forget is things that are boring everyday mundane tasks and information.
      3. If you want to remember something, it has to be memorable.
      4. You have to use your imagination and emotion to turn boring things into interesting things.
      5. If you are trying to remember your employees names, you must:
        1. Learn about them and their lives.
          1. If you know what sports they enjoy and some information about their family, their name will be easier to remember.
          2. The more information in your head about them, the more you can remember.
        2. You have to make connections to other things.
          1. Associations make a name meaningful by connecting names to other things you know.
          2. You can relate the names to other people you know doing things to and with other things that you have a connection with.
    8. Ed Cooke, my understanding is that you were named the Grand Master of Memory at the age of 23. Who awards this title and how is the winner determined?
    9. Ed, when did you first get involved in competitive memorization?
  • Ed, you are the author of Remember, Remember: Learn the Stuff You Thought You Never Could. What first inspired you to write this book?

 

  • I always loved telling people that memory techniques are very accessible.
  • I would get 20-30 people and meet them in a public place. I would teach them a sequence of things. If I was teaching the order of the presidents, I would relate the names to other names and objects and use those to create a story.

 

  1. From your perspective, how does having an improved memory improve someone’s quality of life and performance?
  2. Ed, in your book, you write about, “The Countries of Europe.” What is this chapter all about?
  3. Ed, I would love for you to share with our listeners about the online educational platform Memrise and why you decided to start it?
  4. Ed, on Memrise.com the headline reads, “Unlock your learning superpowers with Memrise,”…how does Memrise help users to learn more effectively?
    1. Memrise is my attempt to create a system that can unlock anyone’s learning superpowers. We have 2 apps and we teach about 200 different languages.
    2. We have applied all of the techniques of learning and assembled them into the ultimate learning system.
    3. We started in 2010 and now we have had more than 40,000,000 people learn with Memrise.
    4. This creates a system that can make anyone a great memoriser
  5. On Memrise, you have over 200 courses filled with content created by expert linguists, what was your process for putting this system together?
    1. When we started, we just wanted an incredible learning system that could help anyone learn anything.
    2. Over time, we realised that the company was growing and that we needed to scale it.
    3. We got a small investment from my uncle and then went on to win an business competition. We went on and grew from there.
  6. Ed Cooke, what big projects are working on over the next 12 months?
    1. Memrise.com
    2. @TedCooke
  7. Rumor has it that you came up with the Idea for the social media platform VINE. How did this happen?
    1. My connection with VINE is that I would Tweet about the concept of VINE for many years before VINE was invented.
    2. I wanted a way to create memos that were 6 seconds long and that I could share with others and even look back on.
    3. I wanted to make something shareable and make it effective as well.
    4. I knew that videos were a great format for learning so we built the ability in Memrise to allow people to post videos.
    5. I am not the inventor of VINE but I was the inventor of the idea.
    6. The things that make ideas sticky in your head are the same things that make social media posts go viral
      1. The vast majority of what hits our senses we don’t actually notice, remember or remember for long.
      2. The human mind has evolved to avoid and filter out the nonsense.
      3. We only pay attention to what sticks out and what is out of our regular flow.
      4. The kinds of things that we share on social media are also the kinds of things significant for us to remember.
      5. If you want to learn something, you just have to use your imagination and the brain will take care of everything else.
  8. Ed, you come across as a very intentional and purposeful person. How do you typically spend the first four hours of your day, and what time do you typically wake up?
    1. I wake up at 6:00 AM softly.
    2. I work out if I have equipment nearby my bed.
    3. I read before I get on the internet.
    4. I like to spend 15 minutes to select the perfect hat.
      1. I have to tune into my mood and my emotions
      2. My favorite hat is my Pakol
      3. Knowledge makes the world more interesting. The more you know, the more opportunities will come to you.
  9. Ed Cooke, if you could recommend one or two books for all of our listeners out there to read. What would they be and why?
    1. The Age of Wonder – Richard Holmes

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Audio Transcription

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Today we interview the one done based entrepreneur and the grand master of memory by the name of Ed Cooke. It holds degrees in both psychology and philosophy from Oxford University with a master’s degree in cognitive science. He’s the Co founder of the online educational platform that uses memory to optimize learning. This platform is called memorize. Tim is also the best selling author of. Remember, remember, learn the stuff you thought you never could throughout his career. He’s been featured in the New York Times. He’s been interviewed on the Tim Ferriss show and he’s a gentleman. He’s here with us and now that any further ado, live from London. It’s Mister Ed Cooke.

Do what?

Yes, yes and yes.

Thrive nation. On today’s show, we have a very special guest, a man by the name of Mister Ed Cooke. Welcome onto the show, sir. How are you?

I am. Excuse me. Good. Thank you ever so much for having me on the show.

Hey, we have a lot of listeners out there that are not super familiar with your background. So if we can, can you share with the thrivers out there? What are you most known for Mister Ed Cooke?

Oh, well hello everybody. Um, so I guess, um, I mean it’s an intriguing question. I mean, it depends how to locally we’re thinking because in my, uh, my local community, I’m probably particularly known for my, I’m eccentric hat where [inaudible] that way. Yeah. So that’s some of it Vegan thing. But yeah, generally, I mean, I suppose I’m, I’m quite well known for my participation in memory championships and for my having founded a website instead of apps could memorize, which I’m help people learn this.

Well, let’s, let’s do this here because I first heard about you during an interview you conducted with the Tim Ferris and 2015. Um, how did you meet Mr Tim Ferriss and what’s, what’s your relationship like with him? Did you just meet him at a, at a random big event and then memorize his face and that’s how you guys connected? Or how did you meet Tim?

Well, I met him through, what am I kicking around is a memorize Greg [inaudible] seen him do a talk at Princeton University back, uh, back in 2010 or something. And, um, and actually I think Tim and I became, um, kind of from friends on the basis of, um, mutual disapproval because you know, as you know, Tim, somebody who, um, is a exceptionally exceptionally elaborate in the way that he optimizes his life and finds ways to um, to um, do everything quicker, faster, better. Um, and my own philosophy is, um, I guess in the end and heads towards the sort of similar place, but I’m thinking more sort of, um, again, are they spontaneous or sort of, um, calculated in my mechanisms for getting things done. And I’m, and we shared our memory techniques and we share it of um, yeah, having from times everybody one

what you are known to many as the grandmaster of memory. Uh, could you explain what it means to be the grandmaster of memory?

So, so this is a very city title, but the, the, uh, there’s this thing which share, you had Betty believe actually she takes place, but it was called a kind of, there’s an international circuit of memory or memory competitions. And so there’s like, um, the few hundred or few thousand people who get together investigations competitively, memorizing strings of numbers, decks of cards, random names and faces, perms, et Cetera, et cetera. Anyway, I’m at these competitions in the same way when you might win a grand slam tennis or whatever, there’s a, um, within this community, a prestigious Walker, grandmaster memory for which you have to be able to remember a thousand digit number in an hour and 10 packs and cards in. And if you could do that, then now they make your grandma’s from memory.

Okay. Okay. So what, let’s go, let’s go back to the very, very beginning. Did you grow up in a family of, of memorizers? Were you raised by an in a, like a scientific environment where you were taught to memorize at a very young age? What was your childhood like as a kid and how did that impact who you are today?

Oh, here’s the thing closes that, um, is that, um, you know, when you hear about somebody and you’re memorizing a thousand digit number in an hour, what have you, your, your automatic assumption is that there’s some kind of unusual cognitive ability at work that, um, the, you know, the must be some sort of special form of, of brain power or a childhood spent isolated from, you know, the joys of social company or sport or the other world. But I’m actually, it turns out the, um, you can actually learn to memorize stuff like this with a completely normal mind actually quite quickly. And so, you know, I’d like to take the opportunity to defend my childhood in a normal family, four sisters, you know, they have pressure, et cetera. But I did come across at the age of 18 or so, a bunch of books around the be kind of, um, the explicit training of memory towards greater performance by, for example, Dominic O’Brien who had won the world memory championships times. And, um, and I kind of learned the techniques and quite quickly discovered as well the wonderful world of how basically to amplify the speed and effectiveness of your learning using these imaginary techniques. And that was how I got into memory and, um, you know, I, I was interested for sure. I was kind of maybe okay at memorizing and for sure I, I, I’m fine, the human mind fun and interesting. But, um, but yeah, most of my ability comes from having trained myself.

So you, uh, I just wanna make sure I get this on the record. You are officially not raised by Vulcans. I think a lot of people who were raised by Spock’s parents or come across that off the list. Okay. So this is something you believe that you have proven over time that listeners can improve memories. We, you believe that you’ve proven this over time that our listeners, our listeners right now, these half million folks listening every month, they can all improve their memories. So what are a few practical action steps, ed, that all of our listeners can take right now if they’re wanting to improve their memories? Just like you did.

So the thing to understand about memory is that we’re all actually very, very good at remembering the right kinds of things. So it’s something very memorable happens to you if you, um, you know, school, the winning penalty and a World Cup final or if a, you suddenly find yourself, um, you know, floating underneath the hot air balloon. Um, um, you know, having a great time with, um, with a number of very beautiful people or what have you in a situation like this, you know, no one’s going to forget that that has happened. What we do forget tends to be things which are boring, which every day, which don’t differentiate themselves from what goes on in the rest of our lives. And so if you kind of invert this principle, you can kind of come up with a bunch of techniques for learning stuff. And so what do we remember where you remember stuff which is vivid, which is interesting, which is joyful, which excites emotion, which connects to our, the things we already know and which we are interested in. And so the kind of golden rule for remembering anything is to make it memorable. And the way we tend to do this is to use our imaginations and user emotions and use, um, a lot of explicit repetition to turn stuff which would otherwise be boring and turning into a form that’s really interesting. And, um, you know, if you give me some example, I can show how this general principle kind of can transfer to, to almost any demand your life.

Okay. So let’s just say that, uh, I’m out there and, and I’m a CEO or our sport, more practically speaking, I’m the head of a company with about 20 employees, 20 employees, you know, not dot 50 505,000 employees. I’m trying to memorize, right? He’s got, you know, a team of 20 people or so, the average American small business. How can your techniques helped me?

So I mean, typically with 20 people, you’re just gonna, you’re gonna learn names by, um, by basically osmosis. But if you have like a, a large number of people and you’re trying to remember the names, there are two or three techniques which make an incredible difference. So the first is um, is actually interesting. It is to learn more about the people involved because memory isn’t game of association and connection and say if you know almost nothing about somebody, you’re actually very, very likely to forget their name. But you know, if you know that they played like netball for Wisconsin and they really like ham under, they once through, you know, an ag, a vicar or whatever, if you have a bit of richness that life, if you knew what their, you know, their family is like if you know the interest in science, it’s actually more richness that you have in that concept of that person, which actually will meet the name.

Easier to remember. This is a weird thing is it’s quite paradoxical in a way because it means that the more you know about something, the easier it is to remember more about that thing we did. We were normally you think, okay, but my brain’s getting food. They didn’t have enough room to extra information by this person. Actually the brain works the opposite way around. The more information you have about someone, the more likely you are to remember the name. Second thing is association. So let’s say you, you kind of meet somebody whose name is clay. And so there’s a bunch of associations with pop into my Mary Kay. Obviously we’ve got the multiple river sediment out of which you can make a pots and things like that. So they play very good. Also, clay is also used for a cookie pitchers. Cricket is the, it’s kind of three dimensional version of baseball.

And so I’m gonna Imagine you clay, uh, playing on a clay service, paying some cricket, and then you could also just make a connection to some other clays. So then do you know, go clay Shirky clay Shirky I am not familiar with clay Shirky, but I’ll, I’ll go with it. What clay? Yeah, he’s some sort of Internet intellectual [inaudible]. You’d be proud to have him show you all of these, of these kinds of associations or ways of making a name meaningful. Um, and so the way you make things meaningful is you’re connecting to things that you already know. Um, and so, so let’s, let’s take some other examples that give me a few random names of people who work in your, in your studio and I’ll see if I can come up with ways that I would associate, those are things I already know to make their names more memorable.

I’ll give you three. One is Jonathan Kelly. Jonathan Kelly. Okay, cool. So for me, um, there’s, there’s good such as with Kelly. So I know this family of caddies, we’ve heard the most in parties. And so I would imagine your Jonathan Kelly Kelly party, and I’d imagine talking to my friend Jonathan Lands and that’s the way I do. I’d say, okay, what’s the setting? What’s the first name? Who are people I know who share these names? And then I form those into an image. Now the second person would be Andrew Bloomer, Andrew bloomer. Cool. Um, and so I have, I have a habit of imagining whenever I’m in Andrew, I always imagine them with enormous hands. So like hand drew, Andrew Henry, and then bloomer, um, uh, Blumer is my best, says [inaudible] is a late bloomer. Someone who, you know, in their twenties was maybe not quite, you know, on top of life in their thirties, they bloomed like a flower and then became an amazing person. So I’m going to imagine this Andrew with enormous hand blooming in his thirties and becoming the extraordinary team member here for that.

And the, the third individual that I’ll mention here, it would be Marshall Morris,

Marshall Morris. Okay, great fun. So in England we have this thing called Morris dancing, which is basically people dress up as um, we’re in fucking white clothes and John danced around a pole, um, Morris dancing. And so with Marshall, Marissa, I’d Imagine Malcolm Marshall, who’s a famous west Indian cricketer dancing round a most pollen. And imagine your different martial is pulling around. And after that session I had cool that. But of course, you know, all of your listeners will have different marshals. They know different, Jonathan’s been there, didn’t believe there’s different associations and you always go with the personnel and it’s by making these day in a way, it’s like incredibly common sensical. Okay. It’s just like make it meaningful, connected with what you know, allow yourself to have an emotion and then suddenly you’ll start remembering stuff, an enormously greater level of visibility.

You, you are truly a master of memory and you decided to write a book called remember, remember, learn the stuff you thought you never could. What, what inspired you to take the knowledge that you had in your head that you’ve obtained and decided to put it into a book?

Um, well, um, so I was always very keen to show people that memory techniques where we were very accessible. So you know, if anybody finds out, oh, you remember champion, they all automatically categorize you as somebody, you know, it’s funny about a unicorn. It’s unusual sort of coming into the busies raised by Vulcans, whatever. And so I began doing this, um, this kind of event in London, which I call memory walks. And I get a bunch of 20 or 30 people who were interested in this and I would meet them in a public place in London, search with Aga square or something like this. And then we go on a walk. And I would then teach them some interesting sequence of things. So for instance, we’ll be America and presidents in a row or, or the prime ministers or some sequence of the, the whole periodic table.

And what I do, let’s sort of walk around and I pointed a monument and let’s imagine we’re in the middle of the, you know, um, American president. So, you know, I pointed him on him until I’d be like, okay, the next president, number 30 is Calvin Coolidge. So what I want you to imagine is Calvin and Calvin and Hobbes sprain fame, getting out of a fridge or freezer from Coolidge. And that’s having on that monument. And then next door to lock someone stinks, improved during hoovering up some stuff. That’s Herbert Hoover, et cetera. And I would basically walk them around London and against each landmark I would make them associate images essentially with the president. And what I found was that you could actually get 25 people, just normal people out for Sunday work and you get them to learn something quite significant. Like you know, for instance, all the presidents in a row and you can do so in just an hour simply by telling stories and getting them to use their imaginations.

And the book kind of came out of that. It was like, Oh wow, you can just, you can just write a story and you can, and in fact specifically, um, a friend of mine from a, from university came along Kirkwood could Jenny and she, uh, he worked with a publisher and she was very structured, you know, she, she learned whatever it was all the UK prime minister’s did said there’s loads of them was like 57, they’d so in like an hour set. And she was like, Hey, I think we should make a cool book. And that’s how it kind of became the thing of the game.

And after the book, you know, and after you’d personally toddle these people, you moved on to create this thing called memorize.com we’re on the website, there’s a headline that says unlocking your learning superpowers with memorize. Can you share the listeners out there? What is memorize.com all about?

So memos is my, um, I tend to read a bunch of us are friends to create a system which can then basically unlock anybody learning superpowers. And fundamentally it’s like a language learning site. And we’ve got two apps. I’m an iPhone, an android APP, and we teach about 200 different, uh, languages. Wow. And what we’ve done is we’ve applied all of the techniques of learning, um, and kind of cognitive science and how people learn more effectively and basically kind of assembled them to create the ultimate, uh, where we, where we, uh, you know, hope will become the ultimate learning system. Um, and so, so we actually started this in 2010. Um, and now we’ve had like more than 40 million people learning languages or memorized. And we use all of these techniques of using your imagination, making it fun, making your associate or your learning to things you find meaningful and trying to find out there in the world of language all the things which are actually found them beautiful and interesting and entertaining about language and um, and then, and then putting those into, into the product and attempt to create a system which kind of make anybody, I’m a really brilliant language learner.

What was your process like for starting memorize? I mean, how did you go about it? There’s so much knowledge up, there are so many trainings up there, there’s so many courses up there. What was your process like for first founding and ultimately, you know, starting memorize?

So it’s a great question. I mean, in fact, I mean we were never exceptionally kind of conscious about the, about the process and the fact that we were starting company. So, you know, the, the, the, the passion, which sort of we began with was it was really this quite kind of hacky project, which just like, wouldn’t it be cool to have a incredibly awesome learning system, which could help anybody learn like a genius. That was the kind of the founding intention. And then we kind of got some momentum. We built it a little bit and we could see that there was, there’s quite cool and some other people began to use it. And then we, um, and then they’re like, oh, wow, you know, we, we should do this more. And then we, we needed some money to the seven. I have an uncle, he was actually a, although I’m British, I’m, I have an uncle who’s a pistachio, not farmer in California, um, uh, lives in Bakersfield, California. And he was kind of kind of business minded. And so he left us a few thousand dollars and then we run a little business competition and then we got a little bit of investing. And so it kind of, it kind of snowballed from the beginning in quite a humble way, you know, with us. Um, or just, um, you know, really on the basis that own intuition and the basis of our own excitement, imagination during our very, very best to understand how to make learning as effective and beautiful and fun as possible.

What was your connection? There’s a lot of things on the Internet that obviously not true on the Internet in a urban myths, that kind of thing. What was your connection to vine? I want to get it from the horse’s mouth. From Mr eds mouth. What was your connection to vine?

I had no connection to vine except that, um, I, um, I um, I was tweeting quite often, um, uh, in the years before finding existed about how it’d be really good if there was a service like Twitter, but instead making short videos of about six seconds length. Um, and actually the reason I was treating this was because I wanted this for memorize and I, it was just obvious to me that like, actually it’s just to kind of get the beginning, it’s a really fundamental connection between what’s powerful on social media and what’s powerful in learning. Because in both cases, the things which attract your attention and make you laugh and, and uh, you are pulled and uh, you know, and, and, uh, basically just attract your, your, your soul. I mean, I mean you’re interested in the thing or the things you just shared on social media, but they’re also the things that you remember in your mind until the fundamental connection between making stuff, you know, shareable on social media and making something effective in bearing itself in your new tissues.

And it was super obvious to us for a long time that, um, a really amazing learning format will be very, very short videos of native speakers in context. And we couldn’t understand why there wasn’t a, a kind of social media service with this format because it was so obvious to us that would be really cool for learning as we built it in two memos now has hundreds of thousands of videos of people on the streets, you know, Europe or Japan or America or Wagyu speaking natural language and context, which creates this incredibly charismatic, vivid and memorable way of experiencing language and context. Um, uh, as a result of this anyway, I was always tweeting about how, why, why is this does not exist here, which led to some people I’m thinking that I was in fact the of vine, which was, this is not, not true. Um, although, you know, I kind of, I, I’m, I get mild pleasure from the fact that I thought it was a good idea before it existed.

Yeah. A lot of people out there are taking, taking notes as you’re talking there and you just dropped a knowledge bomb. But I think everybody could learn from right there. You said the things, some of the principles that go into helping someone memorize an idea, you know, or getting an idea stuck in your head, are the same fundamentals that make a social media post become viral or, or to catch on or to be more shared. Can you explain a little bit more about those parallels?

Yeah, sure. So, um, so there’s a deep connection between, um, what we perceive and what we remember and what excites our imagination. So, um, so, you know, not for this is the best way we speak the, the, um, the vast majority of, of what hits our centers of what we see in some trivial sense we don’t actually notice. And the vast majority of what we noticed, we don’t actually remember. And the vast majority of what we remember, we don’t remember for very long. You could actually think of the human mind does an elaborate filtering device, which is just almost designed from, from an evolutionary perspective to stop us getting overwhelmed by all the nonsense in the world. And so, um, um, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re designed to filter out what’s boring and we designed to react much more strongly to what’s unusual. What’s interesting, what’s, um, what’s the emotional impact to us?

And so if you think about this and about the whole fact of how the human brain is almost designed to forget as much as possible, but only to remember stuff which is our emotional significance, which is good for our health or bad for our health, which is, you know, sexy or fabulous or ridiculous or any of these things, then it actually becomes quite intuitive that the kinds of things which are significant enough for us to share on social media, thanks for six, like the emotion things which are rated since, which are ridiculous. They’re so sexy, absurd or um, or particularly connected to our personal interests are also almost by definition the kinds of things significant enough for us to remember. Um, if we, if we come upon them. And so, you know, if you see, um, 50 to news articles and one of them is like, um, mattress left on streets, but two days before being removed by local authority, that’s one of them.

And then the second one is like herd of elephants on the loose in downtown Portland, Oregon. Um, obviously the second one is inherently more exciting, more interesting. And I’m more memorable. It’s equally likely to be remembered if you say in your own life as to be shared on social media if you happen to see the bad thing is happening in the real world. Um, and you know, I think that this is actually, it was one of those insights which has been quite evident to people who’ve thought deeply about education. So almost since the 19th century and before. Um, and this is, you know, and memory techniques have, I have a history which goes back, you know, 2000 years where there’s this long history, people who realize that if you want to learn something, it just kind of use your imagination to make it interesting. Or if you’re a brilliant teacher, you’ve just got to make it interesting because then the brain will take care of everything else.

I think there’s somebody out there who’s very curious about wanting to learn more about you in, in the projects that you’re up to blur right now. What’s the best way for our listeners to stay in touch with you or to learn more about what you’re working on? Should they go to memorize.com check it up there. What’s the best way for people to learn more about the memorization strategies that you’re teaching?

Well, I would a warm, he recommend to check out, memorize. You can download the APP. We get the website, memorize.com and then you can follow me on Twitter. I’m at Ted Cook d, See the lyric, k e the e is silent, a bit like the P and Tom Hagen. And that’s not happening it, uh, anyway, so you can put me on Twitter. And a, they were often post on matters of memory and learning and uh, and yeah, I’m always open to conversation and uh, and the likely to engage with people who are enthusiastic about the learning mind.

No, I have two final questions for you. Um, a lot of our listeners out there, uh, are, are very amazed by somebody like yourself who can craft and create a life that is of their own design, uh, somebody who can be very intentional. And so I would just ask you this. How do you spend the first four hours of the average day and what time do you typically wake up?

Uh, I mean, I’m tempted to give you the idealized version of how my day would be getting. Oh yeah. Um, which is almost more interesting than the, than the actual reality. But, um, but I’ll see what actually happens. So I tend to get up at about six in the morning and I think to the morning, and ideally, I mean, I always think the waking up very softly is the idea where to go about it. Cause you don’t want to wake up way too loud and the alarm, you didn’t want to have a violin on trends in the morning. And so under ideal circumstances, I have a little jazz trio. It creep into my bedroom at about five 50 and then wake me up with a few very little soft jazz tunes getting gradually louder. Um, so I find it easier to get out of bed when there’s an audience.

So, um, so that as effective and what I tell you one of the messenger, but that doesn’t happen very often to be honest. And so normally I have to get out of bed myself without the jazz group coaxing me out. And one of the things I found super effected is the, if I, um, have any kind of sporting equipment very, very close to my bed, the chances of me doing something athletic, uh, enormously increased. So I try to have like a pair of socks and some shoes and some shorts nearby, which can sometimes be in the right. I get out into the park and you know, do a job and, and that kind of thing, entering the day with a bit of style and an aerobic activity. Um, and then what I like to do is, which is a new habit, but I love to do some reading before I access the Internet.

I mean, this isn’t really what matter what the meeting’s about, but you basically find the books or this cool meditative zone where your mind has a vest, sort of violent experience. Then it will have in the rest of the day, cause the rest of the day people are gonna be asking you questions and doing various things. Whereas if you read a book for the first hour of the day, you’re kind of in the world of ideas and, and, and so on and so forth. It’s a softer, more beautiful place. And, um, and yeah, and so I said, well remember we’re about an hour and a half into my day and um, and then I, then I spent a bit of time, there’s a habit which I admire a tool and people who try to be effective, which is to reduce their wardrobe. The end with here about sort of, you know, silicon valley executives say, oh no, I anywhere t shirts and jeans, you know, the human brain and he has a limited capacity to make decisions.

Another one to make decisions about my clothing. Well, I think this is ridiculous. Me. I think this is a, this is an affront to human nature. And so I always like to spend like 10, 15 minutes selecting the perfect hat because um, cause hats, uh, bring lots of joy and they, I’ve enjoyed all the people I think direct yourself and they have personalities. Like the way to choose the ultimate hat is first, firstly the Chileans, your mood. You’re sort of saying, okay, am I feeling boisterous and my reading city, am I creating some ba? And then you know, am I feeling angry or you know, have I got a day ahead of me where I need to be compelling or I got a day ahead of me. Right.

These pictures of you and your different hats,

I’m not sure I’ve fully document

these. You have to document these. Have you ever had a day where you wake up and you go, I just need to wear a helmet today?

Well, you know what I mean, the mind, my favorite hat is a could a packer pa Kara and it’s is really cool, which is actually, it’s kind of like, it begins life as a kind of bucket that you roll up the kind of sides of the well diamond size of the bucket and so ends up looking not too dissimilar from a barrier. Um, anyway. The cool thing about pack holes is there anyone who’s actually Afghan or it’s been to Afghanistan, we’ll strike up conversation with you because they’ve never seen someone who’s not Afghan wearing a pack. And so where if I hacker is a great way to make your day more detailing. There’s all sorts of interesting people will pop out of the woodwork. You know, I live in London and there’s loads of people who are kind of, it never gets it, but they actually, you know, lived in Afghanistan or whatever.

And then the, and you get these amazing stories popping out because, you know, they, they, they connect with it and it’s part of their cultural history and they’re quite curious to see why, why now, if anybody will be wearing such a hat. And, and, and, and this other I think is like this is, um, there’s a more general principle at play here, which is the, um, the knowledge makes the world more interesting. And so, you know, if you learn language, the world around you becomes more interesting because it creates more possibilities. Um, and, and it’s actually a bit like wearing a hat. If you were an interesting Hank, you have more just in conversations, you’ll have interesting opportunity to meet new people emerge in front of you. And it’s actually very analogist to how, you know, knowledge more generally. Uh, I’m, I’m aware of where that hat is, a piece of clothing or the knowledge, but it’s a nice metaphor for how Nottage makes your world more entertaining and interesting and gives you more, more fun opportunities for play and discovery and the perception.

Now my final question for you, I want to respect your time here is you’re a very, a well read guy. You talked about how you like to start off every day and if you can read before you get on the Internet and get bombarded with questions and the daily, uh, buisiness. What are a couple books out there? Maybe one book or two books that you would recommend for all of our listeners and why?

Well, one of my absolute favorites, but could the age of wonder and it’s by a guy called Richard Holmes and it’s about the scientific revolution in Britain and Europe in America around the turn of the 19th, the 19th century, around 1800. And this book, I mean, you sometimes the, one of the things I didn’t like about contemporary life is that science and scientists can often be presented by themselves and by others as being quite, um, quite sort of full of the truth and you know, clever than everybody else and sort of this sort of thing. And you go back to this point in time and this book tells the most Amazingly Poetic Story of the emergence of scientific thought. And it’s like scientists from an early age, a form of adventure. It’s a form of, um, existential exploration. And you know, it, there’s amazing stories about how you got this.

Got Humphry Davy who discovers laughing gas and carbon monoxide up and he had a methodology. He was a chemist, a famous chemist would have won the Nobel prize today, but who, part of his methodology whenever he discovered a new chemical was to drink it, um, or, or, or, or in as much as he could, just to see if I had any interesting effects. And when he was giving lectures and he gave them a dazzling lectures, um, uh, the, the Royal Society in London. And parents like colored, you’ll be sitting in the front row. Um, I’m wondering whether there were scientists just as he was wondering whether he was a poet and then when, um, you know, anyway, and then the invention of the hot air balloon, this is around this time where people are going up in the sky. It’s suddenly changed everyone’s imagination of the services there. Um, and no one had ever really thought of the earth from a bird’s eye view perspective and um, and everything’s impossible so that now, you know, you hear about how Victor Hugo, I’m the French writer, um, who’s convinced that national borders, we will be dissolved and the ou transfer will be taken over by hot Abilene’s because there’s no point in having national board is if you could fly over them.

And so anyway, you get the sense of both how poetic and wonderful knowledge and discovery, but also at the same time how, um, how absurd they can see him, uh, from the perspective of the future. And so not only is a wonderful set of stories, but it also gives you an incredible understanding of science. And also just being in the kind of the human imagination. And I think especially when you play it applied to today, it kind of, it gives you an inspiration. This Berg, which by the way I would remind you is called the age of wonder. It gives you, it gives you, it gives you a, it gives you a kind of an inspiration about the how wide open the possibilities of human thoughts and experience are and how um, yeah, how we don’t know it all and we never will. And the world will always be fundamentally fascinating

and I appreciate you man. You’ve dropped knowledge bombs about memorization book recommendations, how to make content go viral on the Internet. Ah, you’ve, you’ve dispelled the rumors about you starting vine. You are an absolute source of wisdom. Thank you for joining us, my friend and I hope that tomorrow brings you a, a wonderful day and a wonderful hat selection.

Hey, my pleasure. Thanks so much. Great. Great. You’re on the ship.

Hey, take care and have a great day. If you are out there today and you’ve yet to purchase your tickets for our next in person, thrive time show workshop, I would encourage you to do your research just to just do a little quick Google search for thrive time show conference reviews, or maybe a research the thrive time show on iTunes and you can look for reviews there. Or maybe you go to youtube and type in thrive time, show conference reviews, read those reviews and see what thousands of people are saying about the in person. Thrive time show workshops, and then book your tickets today by going to thrive time show.com that’s thrive time show.com. You Click on the conferences button and there you go. My name is Clay Clark and we’d like to end each at every show with a boom. So here we go. Three, two, one, boom.

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