Guy Kawasaki on Why Real Entrepreneurs “Fire Then Aim”

Show Notes

Guy Kawasaki, the legendary former key Apple employee turned venture capitalist, best selling author, Chief Evangelist for Canva and Mercedes Benz shares: Why he believes that the secret of his success is his ability to outwork people, why he believes you can’t hide behind resumes, why he believes you shouldn’t waste your life emailing people, why real entrepreneurs ship and then test and more.

  1. Why he believes that getting the crap beat out of him while trying to sell diamonds at a jewelry store was key to his professional development.
  2. Why he believes that surrounding yourself with a great network of people is key to getting opportunities.
  3. Why he believes that if you have a perfect background you can’t live off of it and if you don’t you can’t use it as an excuse.
  4. Why he lived in fear of Steve Jobs, but yet would not trade those days for anything.
  5. Why real entrepreneurs ship a product and then they test it based upon the feedback they get from the marketplace.
  6. Why he believes that you shouldn’t waste your day checking your emails.
  7. How decides what projects to work on.
  8. Why at Apple they wore shirts with “Working 60 Hours Per Week and Loving It” printed on it.
  9. Why his personal mantra is to empower people.

Book: Wise Guy: Lessons From A Life

  1. Thrive Nation on today’s show we are interviewing the author, speaker, entrepreneur and evangelist Guy Kawasaki.
    1. He is the chief evangelist of Canva, an online graphic design tool.
    2. He is a brand ambassador for Mercedes-Benz and an executive fellow of the Haas School of Business (UC Berkeley).
    3. He was the chief evangelist of Apple and a trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation. He is also the author of The Art of the Start 2.0, The Art of Social Media, Enchantment, and nine other books.
    4. Guy earned his Bachelor of Arts from the Stanford University and an MBA from UCLA as well as an honorary doctorate from Babson College.
    5. Guy, welcome onto today’s show, how are you sir?!
  2. Guy, today you have become almost legendary, but I would like to start at the bottom and the very beginning of your career when you were working at the jewelry company, while earning your MBA from UCLA. What was your experience selling jewelry like?
    1. I was in the MBA program which was 4 days per week
    2. I started working at a jewelry manufacturer where I counted Diamonds
    3. I decided to work for them full time after college and ended up becoming the Vice President of sales for this company
    4. There are two fundamentals in life
      1. Someone has to Make it
      2. Someone has to Sell it
      3. If you are able to do those two things, you will be okay
  3. How did you become a Sales Master?
    1. I got the crap beat out of me
    2. If you go to proctor and gamble and you’re selling tide and other products sold in supermarkets you really get the crap beat out of you. That is how ;you learn
  4. I’d love for you to share about your path from the jewelry store to working at Apple?
    1. Nepotism – When you hire a friend or family
    2. I went to school with Mike Boich who was at Apple
    3. I had the wrong education (Psychology) and I was in the wrong industry (counting diamonds
    4. What really matters:
      1. Make friends in college
      2. You may not have the perfect background but don’t let that stop you
    5. No one cares where you went to school or about your grade. All they care about is weather or not you can produce. It doesn’t matter if you don’t have a perfect background.
    6. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “You either produce or you don’t produce.” – Guy Kawasaki
  5. When you worked at Apple, what was your role?
    1. My Nepotistic friend went out and evangelize Macintosh to software and developer companies.
  6. How often did you interact with Steve Jobs?
    1. As little as I could
    2. I wasn’t in his inner circle and i’m sure that circle wasn’t safe
    3. I lived in fear of him but I wouldn’t trade those days for anything
  7. When and how did you first meet Steve Jobs?
  8. Walter Isaacson wrote a great book with Steve Jobs about his life and there have now been movies made about Steve Jobs. But I would love you to explain the personality of Steve Jobs, and what you believe made him great?
    1. Those movies and books are pretty accurate
    2. He was a perfectionist
    3. He didn’t exactly mince his word or care about people’s feelings
    4. It sounds more negative than it is. It was just not on his radar. He would just blurt out the truth and his opinion. He was what he was.
  9. Guy Kawasaki, I’d love for you to share with our listeners about your role during your time spent at Apple?
  10. Guy, I saw a talk in which you shared about the 12 Pivotal Lessons Steve Jobs taught you, I wanted to have you break down 3 of them on today’s show. The 1st lesson that I would love for you to break down is, “Value is different from price.” What does this mean?
    1. In the case of Apple, No one bought anything because it was the lowest list price.
    2. Apple products are never the cheapest. You never buy an Apple product based on price but instead on value.
    3. Value is:
      1. Simplicity
      2. Functionality
      3. Coolness
      4. Less support needed
    4. I used a PC six years ago for 30 seconds. Generally I never use a PC.
  11. Guy, you said Steve Jobs taught you that “A Players Hire A Players.” I would love for you break down this concept for our listeners out there?
  12. Guy, I’d love to have you break down the lesson that “Real entrepreneurs ship.” What does this mean to you?
    1. What I mean by that is, A lot of the Entrepreneurs that I meet are waiting for the perfect product with the perfect market with adequate competition.
    2. Most entrepreneurs ship before they test.
    3. Once you ship, that is when the real work begins and when you find out what you really have to do
    4. The moment you ship, harsh reality hits you in the face.
    5. ACTION STEP – When creating and selling a new product or service
      1. Define
      2. Act
      3. Measure
      4. Refine
  13. Why do people get stuck at taking action?
    1. When you take action you learn
    2. This is why real Entrepreneurs “ship”. They get their product out into the market and then fix the problems.
  14. Guy, why did you decide to leave Apple?
    1. Version 1
      1. I left Apple because I wanted to make a software company
    2. Version 2
      1. I went to a job review with my manager and I was up for being a director.
      2. They told me that the small developers really like me but the big companies don’t like you.
      3. Since these big companies didn’t like me, I was denied the promotion.
    3. I told my friend that I was going to quit because they would not promote me.
    4. He told me that he would make me a director where he was at.
  15. What did you do the day you quit?
    1. The next day I started on the company I left to start
  16. Guy, I would love for you share about what your career looked like from 1987 until you Apple in 1995.
    1. I started Macintosh Database Company
    2. I stayed there for a few years until I didn’t get along with the co-owners and left
    3. I enjoyed my time to speak and promote my book.
    4. Now I:
      1. Canva – Online Graphic Design Service
        1. I reached out to them and helped them.
        2. I was recommended to work with them by someone who was working with them. She was actually doing the work
      2. Mercedes Benz – Brand Ambassador
        1. The S63 BiTurbo AMG
        2. We just came out with an A Series that starts at $33,000 and competes with the entry level BMW and Audi.
          1. It was a nice small car with good gas mileage and was fun.
        3. EQC is the basic all electric midsize SUV with a 220 mile range on the battery. It can hold five and has surfboard racks on top.
    5. What keeps me young is my fantastic wife and my four children
    6. My plan is my youngest son graduates from college and the next day I die.
  17. Guy, you’ve been quoted as saying, “What I lack in talent, I compensate with my willingness to grind it out. That’s the secret of my life.” I would love for you to share with our listeners a story from your career where you absolutely had to just grind it out at a level that most people have never experienced?
  18. Guy in 1998, if I’m getting this right, I believe that you co-founded Garage Technology Ventures a venture capital firm. Why did you decide to invest your time in starting a venture capital firm?
  19. Guy, you have an upcoming book called, Wise Guy – Lessons From A Life. What first inspired you to write this book and what’s it all about?
    1. Royalties (Joking).
    2. I wanted to write a book. I had plenty of stories to tell and lessons to give so I decided to write a book
    3. This is Miso Soup for the soul. This is my stories told.
  20. What are some of the things you enjoy but aren’t great at it?
    1. Surfing and Hockey
    2. Anything you love to do but aren’t good at is true love if you can keep doing it without being great.
    3. I started playing hockey 48 and surfing at 62.
  21. What is something most people think they “have” to do but they actually don’t?
    1. Answer email
    2. You just have to work it out. You don’t have to be smarter than anyone you just have to be able to work it out.
  22. Chapter 7 of your book is called Parenting. You start the chapter by writing, “Parenting has been the most challenging and the most rewarding activity of my life.” I love for you to share more about this?
    1. My wife is fantastic
    2. I love my kids and I love my family
    3. I hate traveling and when I am home, I am with my family
    4. When I do have to travel I make it as quick as possible. I just want to be with my family. We all love surfing and that is what I like to do.
  23. Guy in your book you write, “Email Doesn’t Matter. I once lost four hundred unanswered emails in my inbox because my email application crashed. Afterward no one sent a follow-up email asking why I hadn’t responded. Later I lost another inbox and only a handful of people followed up.” I would love for you to break this down?
    1. When close friends die, I take my inbox and throw it away in honor of them.
    2. What I realize is: It doesn’t really matter!
    3. Most people didn’t expect to get answered in the first place so why am I worrying about it in the first place?!
    4. If it is over 30 days old I just delete it and if it did in fact matter then they will email back.
  24. Guy, our listeners are always curious about the habits and routines of the world’s most successful people and so I would love if you would share with us what the first 4 hours of your typical day look like?
    1. NOW
      1. Wake up at 6:30am
      2. Make breakfast
      3. Look at three news sources
        1. Google News
        2. Apple News
        3. Smart News
      4. Drop off my kids at school a half an hour away
      5. Go to a coffee shop
        1. Email
        2. Social Media
        3. Eat
        4. Email
        5. Social Media
      6. Pick up the kids
      7. Go home
    2. THEN
      1. We would wear shirts that said “Working 60 hours a week and loving it”
  25. Guy, I know that you are always proactively designing your life. I’d love to have you share with us about any projects that you are working on during the next 12 months that we should be looking out for?
    1. Heavily invested in the introduction of my book
      1. Lots of podcasts
      2. Signings
      3. Anything I can do to promote this book
    2. Canva
    3. Speeches
    4. Evangelism
    5. Home with my family and surfing
  26. Wise Guy: Lessons From A Life  
    1. A book of my life so that you can learn from me and my mistakes.
    2. They are simple down to earth stories that helped me learn about life.
  27. Linkedin: Guy Kawasaki
  28. Instagram: GuyKawasaki

ACTION ITEM: Ask yourself, how many hours a day are you wasting trying to keep up with your inbox?

ACTION ITEM: Get your inbox down to zero every morning, add it to your to do list, and CLOSE your email.

Sources – https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/12-pivotal-business-lessons-steve-jobs-taught-guy-kawasaki.html

Business Coach | Ask Clay & Z Anything

Audio Transcription

Best Business Podcast Download Podcast

On today’s show, we are interviewing the legendary former key apple employee turned venture capitalist, bestselling author, chief evangelist

for Canva and a Mercedes Benz is none other than my brother from another mother, Mr. Guy Kawasaki and on today’s show guys shares why he believes that the secret of his success is his ability to outwork people. Why he believes that there are two fundamental functions in life. Somebody has to make it and somebody has to sell it. Why you believe that getting the crap beat out of him while attempting to sell diamonds at a jewelry store was key to his professional development. Why he believes it’s surrounding yourself with a network of great people is key to creating great opportunities. Why he believes that if you have a great resume, you can’t hide behind it. And why he believes if you don’t have a great resume, while you can’t use that as an excuse why he lived in perpetual fear of Steve Jobs, but yet he wouldn’t trade those days for anything. While he believes that real entrepreneurs ship a product and then test it based upon actual market feedback. While he believes that you shouldn’t waste your day checking emails, how he decides what projects to work on and why. At Apple, the employees wore shirts that read working 60 hours per week and loving it. And while he’s personal, mantra is to empower people like you. Ladies and gentlemen,

Further Ado, it is my pleasure to introduce to you Mr. Guy Kawasaki.

Yes, yes, yes and yes. On today’s show, chupp, we have a very special guest. We have the iconic guy, Kawasaki. Oh,

come on, cal. Guy Kawasaki. Mr. Guy Kawasaki. Welcome onto the thrive time show. How are you sir? Yeah, that’s quite an insurance. Good guys. I’ve been working on that for about 14 hours in a row now, so feel try again if I need to. Welcome onto the show, sir. Oh, thank you. I can tell already it’s going to be a fun day here. Yes. No. Okay. Now I your, your career deserves a, you could have 15 shows about you, but I tried to distill to break down today’s questions into the ones that I think will impact our audience the most. So let’s, let’s go back to college and you’re selling jewelry. Um, could you talk about selling jewelry and how that job helped you? Yeah, so I was in the MBA program at Ucla, was a four day

a week program and I needed money and had an extra day. So I started working for a jewelry manufacturer in downtown la where I counted diamonds really? And yeah, literally counted diamonds and La later when I graduated from the MBA program, I went to work for that jewelry company instead of wells Fargo or Mckinsey or Goldman Sachs, a unlike my classmates. And I became the, uh, eventually the vice president of marketing and sales for this company. And so I had to go and sell jewelry to jewelry retailers around the world. And I have to tell you that was great training because in my humble opinion, there are two fundamental functions in life. Somebody has to make it and somebody has to sell it. So if you’ve been to one of those two things and you will always be okay,

did you have a specific book or a specific mentor or a specific method that you learned that allowed you to become good at sales? Because most people by default are not very good at sales and then everything else begins to fail when you can’t sell anything. How did you get, how did you become a sales master?

Hi, basically I got the crap beat out of me. I mean I think that’s the way, you know, sort of more intellectual extreme of that. If you go to work for proctor and gamble and you’re selling tide and bold and you know whatever they sell swiffers and you’re calling on supermarkets, I would think that you’re getting the crap beaten out of you. True. And that is very good training because you really learn to sell and you learn empathy and you learn to work hard. And you know, none of this kind of, uh, I created a website and I did a sex tape and Naama Internet.

Well you know, I got to cross that off my list because it was telling the guys, I said, guys, if we could just get a sex tape made and this is what they said to me. I said guys, that could be, that could have been our move. But you’re saying that’s not the move. Nope. Keep your day job bro. Okay, we’re moving. We’re moving on here. Now you then somehow landed at, at Apple. And for the listeners who haven’t read your books and followed you and cyber stock, do you like myself? Can you explain how you went from the jewelry store to apple?

Nepotism. Nepotism. Nepotism. Nepotism is when you hire a friend or a family. So I went to school with a guy named Mike boy and he eventually hired me into apple where he was. So I had the wrong educational background. Psychology.

I had the wrong work experience counting diamonds to go to work for apple. It was pure and simple nepotism. And you know it. In my book Wise Guy, I talk about this story and there’s a lesson there and the lesson there is number one, make friends in college. Okay. Number two is, you know, you may not have the perfect background but don’t let that stop you. So the key is to get in and once you get in to work and succeed, so it’s not how you got in. It could be, you know, your father’s connections, your mother’s connections, he could be your classmate. It doesn’t matter how you get in, it just matters what you do once you get it. And there’s a corollary to that. The corollary to that is let’s say you had the world’s greatest background, right? So you went to Dartmouth and Yale and you worked for Goldman Sachs and you know, you’re just perfect on paper. He had a 4.2 GPA, Phi Beta Kappa, you know, all of just everything. So you get this job and guess what the next day nobody gives it. If you went to Harvard or Dartmouth or Yale or Stanford or you had a 4.2 or whatever, you know, you either produce so you don’t produce.

I want to marinate on that for a second there because that is a deep thought. I was just typing that onto the show notes. As a notable quotable. You either produce or you don’t produce, but that is where do you see a lot of people who get that wrong? They think that that, like he’s saying the pedigree matters or the background matters. The education matters and a lot of times that does, but when it comes down to business, it’s black or white, red or black. You either produce or you don’t. One thing that I’ve noticed, it’s really, really tough for how he educated entrepreneurs to grasp is that simply because you have your doctorate in something, right? Or You have a degree where you can be an art, maybe an architect or a or an attorney. It doesn’t matter if the market doesn’t care. He said earlier in the interview, uh, someone has to make it, someone has to sell it.

And even if you can do both of those, you’re good. And those are the two things that matter the most. One of the, the most, uh, difficult situations for me as a business coach to work with or to work in, um, in the past was working with somebody who is overeducated and under action focused. And so I have a lot of people that back in the day I was, I was 27 when I sold DJ connection. So I had people reaching out to me who were attorneys and doctors saying, I have my degree, I’ve got my master’s degree, I have an Mba, I’m a, I’m an attorney, I’ve gone to school for seven years, eight years, and I have no customers. Right? And I just think this is an important concept for somebody to hear some, I’m going to cue it up again, then we’ll get back into the interview. And it was her guy Kawasaki. Nobody gives it that

you went to Harvard or Dartmouth or Yale or Stanford or you had a 4.2 or whatever. You know, you either produce so you don’t produce. So that’s a very valuable lesson that if, if you have this perfect background, you can’t live off of it. If you don’t have a perfect background, it doesn’t matter if you work here

in your book Wise Guy, you, you talk a lot about your experience working at Apple. And I’d just like for the listeners to hear, hear it from you. Um, did they hire you as their, a leading diamond, a purchaser or seller or what did you do at apple when he started?

Well, my nepotistic friend hired me. We went out and evangelize Macintosh, two software companies and hardware company. So our job was to take a prerelease computer with no install base and very few tools, very little documentation and convince companies to write Macintosh software and create McIntosh hardware.

So you were, you started there through nepotism in this position. You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re evangelizing. How often did you interact with Steve Jobs?

As little as I could. That’s very was, you know, he was two or three layers above me. It was a small division though, so we’d run into each other. Uh, but, and I can’t tell you that I was in his inner circle and it’s not clear to me being in his inner circle is safe.

So he was a very challenging perfectionist, kind of personal fear of him.

Uh, but I would not trade those days or anything.

You, you’ve done talks and I’ve seen a video interviews where you’ve, or video presentations where you’ve talked about some of the things you’ve learned from Steve. You talked about these 12 pivotal lessons you’ve learned from Steve Jobs. Could you talk about his, his personality a little bit? Because, you know, there’s, there’s movies made about it and where there’s like the Ashton Kutcher movie and others kind of like the happy one. And then there’s the Walter Isaacson book he did with Steve, which I enjoyed. Um, what was the personality like of, of Steve Jobs?

Well, basically all those movies and books kind of actor and I mean, to some extent, and, and so, yeah, there may be some factual issues and all that, but, you know, he kind of was what he was, and he was a perfectionist. He didn’t exactly mince his words. Uh, you could say that he didn’t really care about people’s feelings. Uh, I, that sounds more negative than it is because there are some people who don’t care about people’s feelings because they’re just 24 carat, you know, orifices, right? There are other people that it’s just not on their radar. They just don’t think about other people’s feelings and it’s, it’s, you know, not potter there operating system to consider other people’s feelings. They just blurt out the truth or they’re, they blurt out their opinion. Whereas there are other people who, you know, are trying to drill you into the ground. And Steve was, it was just not in his operating system. He just was what he was truly the first, um, wizzy wig.

Well, in my shameless attempt to help you sell your book wise guy here, you know, in your book you talk about these 12 pivotal lessons, I’d like for you to share three of them. That way the listeners are going to say, I can’t stand it. I’ve got to buy the Wise Guy Book today. So let’s talk about one of the, one of these pivotal lessons here. Value is different from price. What does that mean?

Yes. Well, in the case of apple, no one ever bought anything from apple because it had the lowest list price. And if you just compare apples against apples, no pun intended, uh, for performance, screen size, you know, et Cetera, et cetera. Apple products are never the cheapest. You never buy an apple product on price. You do buy an apple product on value. So value considers other things besides the simple dollar amount it considers ease of use, ease of conversion, uh, you know, coolness, all those other things, lack of the need for it, support, all this kinds of things. So when you buy a Macintosh, it’s because you’re going to get up to speed faster, you’re going to have better results and you’re going to have to have less support. So is it more expensive when you buy it? Yes. But over the course of a lifetime, will it give you more value also? Yes.

Have you ever used a PC? Is it like unethical in your mind to use a PC? Have you ever used a PC?

You know, I used one about six years ago for about 30 seconds, I remember. Um, but generally I never ever use a PC.

Never used. Never used. Okay. That’s what I wanted to, I wanted to ask you because this is, these are the tough questions the thrivers want to ask you. Now you have started saying, I’ve seen a few talks where you’ve talked about this and then in your book Wise Guy, you talk about this, you say real entrepreneurs ship. Do you remember when you first started talking about this idea of publicly,

do I remember when? Yeah. I don’t remember what I did yesterday, man.

I feel like you’ve been saying that though for about a decade, haven’t you? I mean, cause it’s easier to see what you’ve been saying on youtube now than it was before Youtube, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. What, what I mean by that is I meet with a lot of entrepreneurs and they’ve been in their garage or in their bedroom and they’ve been noodling with this idea and tinkering around for years and they’re waiting for, I don’t know what they’re waiting for. They’re waiting for the perfect product with the perfect market, with adequate funding and no competition, and that just does not describe the real world and so real entrepreneurs, they ship and then they test. So you ship a Macintosh one 28 k it doesn’t have enough ram. The chips too slow. This, those monitors monochrome. There’s not enough software. There’s lots of flaws with what you share, but once you ship, that’s when the real work begins.

Okay, chuck, that right there is a knowledge bomb worth playing. One More Tom, I’m going to play the audio clip one more time and then we’re going to do is we’re going to go around the world kind of around the horn. We’re going to break it down because somebody out there needs to hear this idea and so on today’s show we have Tim Redmond on the show. Now Tim Redmond helped. Got To grow a company called tax and accounting software from two employees to 450 employees. That’s a couple more. Then we have a business coach by the name of Eric Chop. That would be you. Do you work with real entrepreneurs? All the time that gets stuck on this idea of trying to make the product perfect before they ship. And then all the thrivers are stuck with me. A coasting the show making it hap happen. So, oh yeah, I want, I just, I want you to listen to this. Listen to this quote one more time. Bike from a Guy Kawasaki, take notes on it and then are going to break this thing down. Like we’ve got unlimited triple AAA memberships and we don’t even care if we have a breakdown.

Real entrepreneurs, they ship and then they test. So you ship a Mackintosh one 28 k, it doesn’t have enough ram. The chips two Slos does monitors monochrome. There’s not enough software. There’s lots of flaws with what you share. But once you ship, that’s when the real work begins. And that’s also when you truly know what you have to do because you can sit in your dark paid and your mother’s house and you know cogitate about what will be necessary for your product. But the moment you ship harsh reality slaps you in the face.

Okay. So Tim, let’s start with tax and accounting software. Um, when you guys started that company, walk us through,

uh, introduced us to the first five or six employees that worked at tax and accounting software. Okay. Yeah, there was the, uh, the founder Tim Claire. Got It. He was a programmer and a then we had a myself, I was the second guy hired and then we hired a brilliant programmer actually in the next couple of guys were programmers. Then I hired a guy to help me grow the sales and support and department and uh, that, that’s how we got started.

And so you guys are, how did you get your first 1000 customers? How did you guys gain your first 1000 customers at tax and accounting software? Software?

Great question, Clay. Yeah. What we did was we found we were marketing to CPAS and tax preparers and so we got lists from these a list companies and we just sent out mailers nonstop to them, as many as we can handle the leads that we would generate from them. And where were you guys office at this time? Where you office a huge skyscraper

somewhere or where were you five guys were? Were, were, were the tax and accounting software based when it was you and five employees and did have multiple floors. We had two floors. It was in the founder’s Condo. Oh. And he loves blue level, split level yet he loved to keep that at about 87 degrees. So it was a sauna every night reminded me of the old wrestling days. Now Chuck, if you notice, Tim said they built a company tax and accounting software, right, which was later sold to intuit and you can, it’s well documented. The company was sold for, how much money was it sold for Tim? 62 and a half million dollars. Plus we got to keep the balance sheet. I another 18 million man. So they sold a business for north of $60 million when I came to work for tax and accounting software. Um, you already had 450 some odd employees and I was probably employee four 41 four 51, four 49 whatever.

And I was only there. I was there right before you guys agreed to sell the company to into it. But a lot of people want to talk about that and the success, but they don’t want to talk about the beginning when it’s five guys working in a condo. Now I have no interest in talking about the exits of big companies. I have no interest in looking at billion dollar companies and how they’re going to merge and be crit, another billion dollars. I am exclusively interested on in the, in the conversation of how entrepreneurs started something. I only care about the genesis of big organizations. Chip. All I focus on is how big companies started and everybody else just wants to celebrate the, the uh, the highlight in this line, the finish line, our listeners as well just want to know about how something started because that is the tough part.

Well, like what Tim said, starting off in those humble beginnings, that’s how you do it. There’s nothing more sad. And I know both of you guys have seen it working with so many clients as when you see somebody that wastes all of their money upfront, they may have a great idea, great product, great service, but they put all of their money all over their war, chest into their facility, into hiring before they need it. And now they have no room to grow because they’re out of resources. This and

it’s because everybody wants to avoid rejection. Oh, it wants it to be perfect before they ship. But again, shop. He says the real entrepreneurs ship, then test. That’s right. So what I’m gonna do is I’m going to teach everybody out there today, four simple words that will change your life as an entrepreneur. There’s four simple words. This is the rhythm of success. This is the rhythm of entrepreneurship. If you want to become an entrepreneur, this is how you do it. This does make most people who know me crazy who are not entrepreneurs, but this is what you do. You define what you think is going to work. There you go. Then you act. So you define what you think is going to work and then you act. You don’t, as Guy Kawasaki said, you don’t sit in your mother’s basement waiting for it to be perfect, but you defined, you define, then you act.

Then after you act, you measure the results and then you refine, you define act, measure, refine. So let me just give the listeners three quick examples. When I built DJ connection.com I thought that the brides and grooms that I worked with might also want to rent dance floors from me. And uplighting, I thought they would want to rent lighting the decorative uplights for their wedding reception. And I thought they would want to book dance floors from me. So Chubb, based upon this idea of define, act, measure, refine, how do you think I went out there and tested whether people wanted to buy or what the people wanted to rent dance floors from me or not? I’m gonna, I’m gonna jump out on a, on a limb and guests that you just started selling it before you even had any of them. So what I did is I made a binder and I had it.

It was very nice. It was colored binder here, three ring. It was a, it was, it was a three ring binder and I had to color it was like a glossy um, product mock. Uh Huh. And it showed the different sizes of the dance floor so you could choose from and explained why we used it, why all of the floors that we use are uh, from a company called master dance floor. There you go. Because they make the best dance floors and they are masters at it. A true story though, they were a very good company. I said, this is why we’ve chosen them. We have a nice edge so people won’t get their shoes caught in the dance floor edges. It’s very nice. And we only use the finest uplights. We use the American Dj uplights. I listed them all and I went up there and tried to sell it.

Now this is where it makes the people who worked for me uncomfortable, but how well this is what they said. I remember this, I went downstairs and I pitched it to the bride and the groom and they said, yeah, we’ll go ahead and take it. And I said, okay, all I need is a credit card to reserve the dance floors and uh, I will call you today to let you know if we have an opening, you know, that’s what I did. And I did that and then I went downstairs and did it again. And again, this was a time we were booking probably, you know, 15 weddings a day cause we’re doing like 80 a weekend. Yeah. I came upstairs and uh, the guy who entered in the data at that point into the, he would enter in the customer’s receipt and type up their itinerary.

He said, dude that is so shady, we don’t even have dance floors. And I said, I know, but we will have them right in time. But I just wanted to see if I pitched it today 15 times, how many would say yes? And I thought about five people said yes. And he goes, you are the worst. I can’t work for someone like you. And I’m like, cause you’re not an entrepreneur. Yeah. So he wants to do the exact opposite. He wants you to go spend all your money on dance floors first. Right, right. And then tried to sell them, but literally I had to fire guy over that. Then good. The next day does, this is the whole week. It was a bridal show weekend. The next day I began testing trying to sell dance floor, trying to sell dance floors and trying to sell the up lights and the brides would all have certain questions like, oh, can I choose this color or that color or can I make it exactly match the gowns of the bridesmaids?

Is there any way I can make it match the center pieces? And every time I said, absolutely, this is what I, this is what we specialize in. This is what we do, this is how we do it. Then after I sold a gun, I didn’t charge their card yet. I just reserve the date to see. I said I’ll, I will call you to see if we’re available. I called up to the company that would sell me the dance, the, the actual uplighting. And I said, hey, is it possible to adjust the light? So those lights we have hanging up in the man cave right now, beautiful blue, that’s that kind of light. And they said, yeah, you can play d, Bro. You’re led. They can match any color. And I kept doing that. Um, and long story short, after a week of testing, I discovered that about a third of the brides would be willing to pay for it.

So I called them all back and said, hey, we’re gonna go ahead and move forward. We’ve got them available, Yada, Yada. And uh, that became a, another revenue stream that probably produced a 25% more profit. But I tested it. Now let me tell you some things I tested that we didn’t do or want me to you about some things that I should have tested before buying them. Things I should have tested before buying. Um, we had an employee on my team. He said, dude, everybody, all of the brides want Karaoke. And I said, I don’t know, man. I don’t think that brides want Karaoke. I’ve seen some seriously terrible karaoke ruin a party. Performers in my life, ruin weddings. I don’t know. And he said, no, no, no, they, they won’t. I’m telling him and I said, I, I really, I just don’t feel comfortable buying them until I’ve tried to presale him.

And he said, no, no, I’m telling you it’s, I guarantee it. And someone up there. And I thought, okay, he guarantees it, whatever that means. And I bought a ton of Karaoke systems and you know what the one thing that to brides don’t want it. Their wedding reception turned out to be dead skunks, karaoke systems and dead skin. So again, that’s an example of what not to do and an example of what to do. Now another example, and then we’ll get back into the interview, is I started a company called epic photos. Epic photos. Now Chuck, I could not take photos. Correct. And I had no portfolio of previous photos that I’d taken. Correct. Because I hadn’t ever taken photos before. I also had no photography equipment. Correct. I also had really no knowledge, wasn’t trained in photography. And it didn’t, it didn’t go to school for it.

Didn’t really have any good buddies that were great photographers back lighting. You know what I did? I had a friend named Derek, okay. And I called Derek. I said, Derek, here’s the deal. You have a great portfolio of winning photos. He lived in Dallas. Can I pay you 5% of the gross sales to use your portfolio? He says, what? I said, I’m going to make a sales book, the best sales book ever, and I’m going to say, here are our previous photos and then you are going to be a partner in the company. So this is our combined portfolio, right? And I’m going to go to the wedding shows and I’m going to ask brides what they’re looking for out of a photographer, not gonna take any deposits if I’m going to ask what they’re looking for, but I need your portfolio to at least have a conversation.

It’s a little proof, little, little social. He says, all right, sure. So there’s a lot of conversations that went back and forth before that. But then we went to the Dallas bridal show. And at the bridal show at the bride walks up to the booth and I said, hey, are you guys looking for a photographer for your big day? And the bride says yes. And she says, how much do you charge? Because everyone asks that. And I said, well, let me show you our portfolio and we have some specials running right now. Come on into my office as the bride steps into the 10 by 10 booth. She steps in and I show her this portfolio, which is amazing. And she did it. Oh my gosh, these photos are awesome. And I said, well, let me ask you this. Let’s just say that all photographers, uh, have the grit, same quality of photos.

How much money are you willing to spend or how much money have you budgeted for photography? And I kept hearing $1,500 $1,200 $1,500 $1,600 $1,200 $1,700 $1,400. I didn’t hear a lot of two thousands, 3000, but a lot of the photographers were charging threes and fives. And I said, now are our company is a little bit unique. And I just want to ask you this, do you do for your photographer, how many hours do you want? And all the brides and well, I’d like to guy to get there before the ceremony, you know, and I want it to be there. I would like to, I mean, you could like all night. I mean, I’d love to have it from like two hours before the ceremony, up until midnight or whenever we were done. I said, well that’s what we do. We do unlimited turns out crazy thing.

So the bride says, you do unlimited. Thomas said, we do unlimited time. And she said, how much do you charge? I said, our packages start at $1,200 and it’s bright. It’s like what? And I’m and the guy next to me, he’s like, dude, you’re associated. This is how it works now. Right. And I said, now let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. What, what would prevent you from moving forward today? Like what’s your big concern? And the bride says, well, I want to work with the photographer first to see if I liked them. I want to test it first. I see what you want to test it first. Yeah, that makes sense. I said, you know what we do is we do free bridal sessions or engagements where you can try out the photography first. No obligation. Now if you book with us, we’ll give you all the prints, but if you don’t like the photos, then obviously you won’t want to the prince, you know you wouldn’t want the images.

And she says, so you’re saying I could do bridals or engagement cause everybody else hears charged like $500 I can do this for free. If I don’t like them, I am out. Nothing really just a day of my time. But if I liked them then that just is included for free with my package. I said, yes, yes. Then. Then I said to the bride, I said, Miss Miss Bride, do you care about what kind of cameras that the, that the photographer she is. Do you care? I mean if you have a preference, Nikon or Canon, I mean, do you have like a big thing every bride says, no, I don’t care. Don’t know. Don’t care. Then I said, now, let me ask you this. Do you want video included the rights as you guys do photo and video, everybody else doesn’t do it. There’s like a video company or a photography come.

He said, well, yeah, if you could, if you could book both at the same time, would you rather do that over time? After I attempted to sell a close to a hundred of these 150 days, no exaggeration, I was able to get credit card deposits to reserve the $1 fee engagement bridal session for hundreds of brides within these first four or five brothers and the guys next to me were saying, dude, you are so shady, dude. We can’t even do photography. We are not good for time. We have no idea. It’s no, but Derek can. So it was myself and three or four people who probably forget this story because they forget how unskilled day where and how they do nothing about photography. Previous to me introducing them to this craft. Anyway, these people, we all went down to Dallas. They knew nothing about photography. Now they hold themselves out as photography divas.

Oh yes they did. They know so much now, but they went down there to Dallas and Derrick talked to him everything and we went out there and did engagement shoots. My brother-in-law, Justin did him and Cody did them and I did them. And do you know what percentage of the brides were happy with through engagement shoots from those first 10 or 15 we did have no idea. Zero. Okay. Everybody hate her. Seriously, brides would say that right there is the worst engagement session I’ve ever seen. Is that a flip phone? No. Seriously. Brides were like, those photos were blurry. Those photos were terrible. Those photos were awful. We don’t want to book with you. Furthermore, I can’t believe I wasted a day getting my makeup done. It’s terrible. I said, well, you know what? Here’s the deal. We’re going to refund you a dollar. That dollar you paid, we’re going to refund you.

I did a lot of $1 refunds in. A lot of people said, no, you’re terrible. Well over time, after doing this is probably three or four weeks in, I realized nobody is going to work for me long enough to learn photography at the level that Derek’s doing. Right? So I said, Derek, Derek, Derek, this is what I’ve read and I want you to be, be shoot straight with me. Is it possible that shooting photography, shooting weddings, using the manual settings is not a smart idea? Because Nikon and Canon have auto settings where you can adjust this a chip, you’ve seen this, you can adjust the setting for outdoors in front lighting, say different light indoors. And I said, is it possible we could just shoot in auto? And he says, dude, no professional photographers shoot weddings and auto not an artist. And I said, why?

Why, why did they not shoot an auto? And he says, because it’s just not professional. And I said, Derek, but why? I mean, if we get rid of that, that that puffery, that industry insider, that ridiculousness, why? And he goes, it’s just, it just seems kind of amateur. But yes, you could shoot a wedding and auto, there’s the truth. I said, I’m going to shoot the next wedding with you cause you’ve known nothing about photography. I said yes, but if you give me a print out of what the photo should look like, I can do it. So I made this little, I was a laminated flip book of the photos that I was trying to take. So this book about this size, I’m flipping through, I’m like Oh Kennedy at this photo and you get this phone out, a checklist of all the photos to take.

And when I came up with the system, that’s just powerful, powerful photography system. Someone should write this down. It’s called spray and pray. Spray and pray you digital maybe. Good, good, good, good, good. And so I’m shooting thousands, thousands of images just to you do. And then after the wedding, uh, I got all the photos uploaded them and I had one of the editors, I said cut it down to the best, get rid of the first half that are terrible. You know what mean? Just cut it down to half. So they’re cutting down from like 2000 images to a thousand and then we’ll cut down to the next 25% and then anyway, long story short, the bride loved the photos that I took. Now they don’t readily paid for one photographer. So I was the bonus pro bono free guy. Oh there you go. We pitched it as, oh this guy today, he’s like doing work.

It’s like bonus, extra work behind the scenes cameo kind of appearance, pride, love my photos. And it was as humbling moment for this guy cause he goes, dude, you’ve never taken photos before and they’re liking your photos more than mine because I’m spraying and praying. Meanwhile you and your auto and your manual settings and all this are are are or whatever that is, you’re, you’re getting some blurry photos. I’m all mine are clear. I’m taking tons of photos. That became the genesis of epic photography. Yeah. Where I could, now I’ve sold the company so it’s different now. I’m sure

I came along at the before right before you sold the company. So I can attest to all of this. I was a gear manager and had no idea either. And I learned how to shoot video, uh, shooting weddings and this same style. And it did works. It’s so good. We’re happy with it. Yeah, it was great. Let me ask you is how long did it, how long did I give you to learn how to do drone video? Uh Oh. You said, hey, next week I need to learn how to do drone. And I said, okay. And then you came back five minutes later and said, I need you to learn it by tomorrow. Actually true. And I said, okay. And then you came back about two minutes later and said, actually, I need you to leave right now. Yes, you did your own vision and if you should have enough video, you’re going to get some good showing needed like eight shots. I probably took 800 right. And it worked.

So let’s go back to this, this or this. The rhythm of entrepreneurship, you define what you think’s going to work, right? It’s a hypothesis. Then you act, then you measure the results and then you refine. You know, one thing I’ve discovered about, uh, this, this podcast, what I’ve discovered, what’s that? People like it when we introduce them to big names. They liked it. They liked him to interview the big names. Yeah. But they also want us to help break it down and make it practical because the success of somebody is so unapproachable. People email and they say, I want to hear how they started. And that’s why every interview, including this one, we start at the beginning. Start at the beginning. We started asking, God, God, what was your first job out of college diamonds baby. And why? Why is that helpful for somebody, chuck, to know that Guy Kawasaki deal, the iconic entrepreneur started by selling diamond?

Well, these stories can be kind of a, you know, folklore tales and they seem bigger than life. And when you realize that people, you know who, who is the guy that was sweeping the front of the store, sweep Russell Simmons, Russell Simmons, right? He’s got his first job. They’re sweeping the sidewalk for free hip hop millionaire, right.

Start at the hip hop industry. Um, some of you who’ve been following the news maybe are not big fans of him right now, but Russell Simmons started def jam, introduced the world to ll cool j j Z. Absolutely.

It’s how its beginnings, it makes it relatable. It makes it real. It makes people realize that, hey, I can actually do this if they can. They’re just a person. They started, I have to start, why can’t I do this?

And now back to the interview with Guy Kawasaki.

And that’s also when you truly know what you have to do because you can sit in your dark cave and your mother’s house and you know cogitate about what will be necessary for your product. But the moment you ship harsh reality slaps you in the face.

I don’t expect you to have done extensive research on me, but one of the companies I started back in the day I am, I out of my dorm [email protected] Yeah. And before I sold it, we were doing about 4,000 weddings a year. And I thought weddings a a year 80 a weekend. He has the largest in the country. And I was causing, and I was thinking, you know what, I am going to build this awesome club Dj Company. Now I found out quickly at the age of 18 is that you don’t, you’re not going to be very wealthy unless you’re like a Calvin Harris or a DJ, ts doe because there’s just not that many clubs that have that many events that can pay 80 guys to Dj. Weddings are everywhere. And when I went out there and tried to ship, I defined what I thought would work, I acted, and then I had to measure the results and realize I’ve got to refine this entire thing. And that did, that pivot happened like in my first month of marketing going from a club Dj to a wedding Dj. That is so important. Why do people get stuck on that idea of just defining, defining, defining, but ever acting, measuring and refining.

Oh, you, you, you know, you probably learned more in the first day that you did in the previous year. Right? Uh, but that’s, that’s how life is. And so hence the algorithm that real entrepreneurship or you know, real authors shipped to. There are people who work for years on a book and they never ship it. Well you’ve got to ship it. That’s just, you know, it doesn’t exist unless you ship it.

You, you, you decided to one point leave apple and a, you’ve done a lot of other adventures throughout your career beyond just your time in half when a lot of people want to focus there and there’s so much more a tapestry and, and your, your quilt of a career there. Can you explain why you decided to leave apple and then what you did between the 87 and 95 period?

Oh, there’s two versions of why I left Apple. Okay. So version one is I left apple because I, you know, I truly did believe in the Macintosh software market. I wanted to start a software company and you know, make the big bucks like software entrepreneurs do. So that’s the, you know, Silicon Valley Dream version number two of this is I went to a job review with my manager and I was up for being a director level person and director level at apple at that time meant that apple bought you a car and I really wanted apple to buy me a car. So I go into this job review and the guy tells me, well, you know, the small developers really love you, the innovative. Two guys in a garage, two gals in a garage as a guy and a gal in the garage, they love you. But Microsoft, Ashton Tate and Lotus, they don’t like you. And so because those three companies are so important and so strategic for apple, but they don’t like you. I’m not giving you your promotion. Oh, come on. And I just frigging hit the ceiling. So cause to me, Ashton Tate was making a mediocre product. Microsoft was copying our user interface and Louis didn’t believe in Macintosh at all. So those three companies should hate me, that that was the right thing to happen. And so I went to a friend that apple who was kind of a peer at point

and his name was John Louis guests. And I said, y’all know, we, I’m just going to quit man. I went into this review and I, they told me that I wasn’t being promoted for this reason and he said, God, don’t quit. Don’t do anything. Rash is going to be a reorg. You’re going to be reporting to me and the next time you ever view, which is in six months I will make you a director. And he did. Got It. And then I quit the next day to start a company.

Okay. So you, you know, when you quit, I know, um, I was working at Applebee’s target and direct TV at the same time while my wife worked at office depot and Oral Roberts University to start my first company. And I remember when I could finally afford to quit. There’s kind of that feeling of like, yes, I didn’t tell my wife first. So she comes home, we’re 21 years old, she comes home, shit, what are you doing home? And I’m like, I quit. You know, what did you do when you, when you cry? I was just sitting there happy as can be kind of freaking my wife had a little bit. Did you? Uh, what did you do the day you quit?

Oh Wow.

Take the next day I started working on the, the company, the company that I quit to start what was the Macintosh database company?

And tell us about that, that venture and then what you did after that.

Yeah, so I started mackintosh database company and it did okay. Didn’t do spectacularly. Um, I stayed there for about three years. I kind of didn’t get along with the other founders, so I left. Then I just pursued my bliss for awhile as a writer and a speaker and a, yeah, I returned to apple a few later. Years later. I started a venture capital for, today I’m chief evangelist of a company called Camp [inaudible], which is an online graphics design service that everybody should use to create their graphics. Canva, Canva, CA, n, v, a. M and I’m a Mercedes Benz brand ambassador. So I get paid to drive a Mercedes. That’s a true story.

I want to get into this or there’ll be, I’m going, I’m gonna ask you a really rude question right now. If you hang up, I’ll pick up that you don’t like the question. Here’s my question. I think you’re a brand ambassador for fish oil because you are getting younger every year. Have you seen your face? Your face is getting younger and I call you on the carpet. You have brought you a brand ambassador for fish oil?

No. You know, I’m just getting better and better at Photoshop.

Oh Man. You’re, how old are you at last count? I am 64. You, I this not possible. You have 64. Why would I lie? I’m just saying look younger all the time. You are, you are, uh, don’t, don’t take this the weird way. You’re a beautiful man. You’re up. You’re a beautiful man. I think you’re using your sex to sell. Some people use sex tapes. You’re using your Photoshop face where your fisherman or whatever that is. So you know what

young is a, first of all, I have a fantastic wife, but I also, or not, but, and I have four children. And these children are as young as 13 and an old is 25 so my 13 year old who is a seventh grader, you know, he’s got, let’s see, two more years. So that’s, and then he has three more years. Five, he’s probably got nine or 10 more years. Right, right. And so my plan is he graduates from college and the next day I die. That’s the plan. So

hmm. Now you, you chapter seven of your book, the Wise Guy You wrote in the book of Wiseguy Chapter Seven you decided to call this chapter parenting and very few entrepreneurs, I’m not ripping on most entrepreneurs, but we’ve interviewed, I mean the top PR guy on the planet, Michael Levine and we’ve interviewed, we have Wolfgang Puck, puck on the books, we’ve got founded Ritz Carlton in a lot of times you interview people that can really keep the family together. So it’s like as they’re growing the business, they can also grow the family, they, they keep together. And then a lot of times you meet people where it’s almost like two diametrically opposed ideas. You know, it’s almost like if I’m gonna have a great business, my marriage is going to be terrible. And I think you’ve done both, which, so in my opinion, you’re one of the most successful people we’ve interviewed and you said on Chapter Seven of your book, you said parenting has been the most challenging and most rewarding activity of my life. So I would love for you to share, um, without, without judgment of our listeners. But where do most people seem to get it wrong with me, with managing a family and keeping that together while keeping a business together?

You won’t.

Why does your, why is your family stayed here? Is your wife just awesome or why? Cause you seem like you’re a very happily married guy and I just want to know, cause this is, I think there’s a lot of listeners who want to know that.

Um, well my wife is fantastic and I, uh, I take our balls very seriously. Uh, I, you know, I said I don’t want to hold myself up like

my charge. You’re the humble, most humble man in the world. I’m just saying I’m impressed. True.

I, you know, I don’t, I like Charles Barkley. I don’t want to be a role model. I just, you know, I, I just love my kids. I love my family. You know, when I, I hate traveling, uh, when I’m, when I’m home, I’m at home literally in the house. I don’t go to an office. So, and when I travel, I mean I travel like nobody else. I know I am a long visit for any city in the world for me is 24 hours. I had done things like go to Russia for 12 hours, speak and come back within two days. The whole trip is two days. Um, I go to Chicago in the morning, come back that night. I just want to be with my family. I love my family. And we have four kids and they all surf and I love to surf. So

that’s what I want to do. I still want to serve you. You’re, you and I share the assure that one of things in common there I have, I have five kids and I lived behind a wall. We call it Camp Clark and chicken palace. At the Lampoon Lagoon. And I almost never leave except for to go to Atwoods to buy a supplies for my silky chickens and I come back. So, uh, I, I remember what city do you live in? Tulsa, Oklahoma as the birthplace of a tourism, a sod farm tours are huge this time of year. And I’m just kidding. But we have some, we have, I was 17 acres and uh, we love it and Tulsa, but we really just never, I don’t like to ever travel at all. Most. And in, in your book you also talk about email, which of these, the less controversial subject, but your take on it is fairly controversial. So we’ll move off the family stuff you wrote here in your book. Wise Guide. I once lost 400 unanswered emails in my inbox because my email application crashed afterward. No one’s sent a followup email asking why I hadn’t responded later. I lost another inbox and it only had a handful of people follow up. I’d love for you to break this down. Yeah.

So, and, and what I embraced was when close friends die and I’ve had some close friends die, I just take my inbox and throw it away in, in honor of them. Cause I have noticed it doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t. You think everybody’s waiting and half the time, you know, I, I respond and the response to the response is, Oh, I sent you an email. I never thought you’d answer. Thank you for answering. Well, why am I answering email to people? Don’t expect to get answered. Like, why am I making myself crazy? So my message to your listeners is don’t switch your email like I have right now. You know, and I look at my email inbox and it’s getting to be a few hundred. I just throw away everything that’s older than 30 days. And I figure if, if it matters, they’re going to write back to me. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t.

Chuck, I want to make sure that we, uh, rightly divide this interview and provide a little bit of context for this. Absolutely. Guy Kawasaki, if you type in Guy Kawasaki net worth, I’ll let the listeners do their own research on this. But he’s done very well, right? Um, he spends the majority of his days, now I’m being the evangelist for Mercedes. You heard him say he gets paid to drive the Mercedes automobile, right? And a company called Canva and uh, he served on the board with a Wikipedia. He’s done a lot of big things and uh, he’s a great guy. How highly sought after speaker. His new book wise guys is hidden. Bookstores. Clever. So there’s many great things that are happening, uh, in, in his life that allows him to not need to check emails. I would just ask you the listener today. Rhetorically, if you own a business, let’s say it is a construction company of some kind, um, and it’s a sales lead that comes in, you really do need to respond to that email and to call those leads and to be very proactive with it quickly, right quickly.

But as it relates to personal emails, I 100% agree with what he’s saying. Delete that junk for everybody. Exactly. Just want everybody out there to know as it relates to personal emails, anybody who’s ever discovered my email address, if you ever send me like an article, uh, Chuck Norris Joke, a recipe, um, a joke that I should check out a movie trailer, anything at all. I do hit delete immediately because I get 50 to 60 a day. Yeah. And if I were to read any of them at all, I would spend my day occupied at responding to emails. So Chuck, I would like for you to share with the listeners out there, let’s say that all the listeners out there are similar to your current clients. Okay. So explain to the listeners out there what kind of clients you work with. Just tee up some of the, some of the industries that you work in.

Yeah, so we, I’ll work with some people in a commercial roofing and other construction capacities. A, we’ve got chiropractors, float tank, float tank centers. We’ve got an office, a office supply delivery and printer come photography, photography equipment, uh, just tons and tons and tons of tons of different industries. And so as it relates to personal emails, what advice would you have as a business coach to your clients? Anybody else out there, out there listening as it relates to responding to personal emails during the work day? Do not do it. Don’t feel obligated. Just because somebody sends you something that does not demand a response from you. That doesn’t mean you have to cut out time in your day to do that. So the best practice, and I learned this from you, clay, empty your email inbox down to zero in the morning and don’t check that stuff again until the next morning unless you’re getting online.

Leads are emails coming in from your clients like clay was saying. And then you need to have a designated system set up to check that. And let me pull this up here. This is my Facebook account here. Oh boy. Which I never really go into this thing, so I’m going to pull it up and just see what’s going on here. Um, I don’t respond to, but I’ve got a, you know, three different friend requests today. I’ve got, I don’t know how many different, dozens of note of notifications. Um, and so I don’t personally interact with that, right? Because there are people that will send me messages that aren’t kind and some that are unkind. But either way, my focus is on my wife who’s in front of me, my kids and my business. But if you can get caught in this digital Smaug, this digital fog, is that where you’re on a date but you’re not mentally on the day too because you’re mentally somewhere else.

But the same thing happens at work. You’re at work, but you’re not really at work because you’ve got an email from a college buddy and now you’re on some 27 minute rabbit hole looking up crap. That doesn’t matter when you’re supposed to be making money. This is the action item that I would take. I would advise. I’m actually, every listener will agree with me on this. I would not have a personal email at all. Amen. I would just say, if you want to reach me, here’s my phone number, call or text me. But there is no way to reach me via email as it relates to personal things and as relates to personal things. You cannot reach me on Facebook and as relates to personal things, you can’t reach me on linkedin. Um, I’m sure you heard about this but if I had three or four months ago I had a member of our team do my annual linkedin update [inaudible] and that basically consists of that person saying yes to everybody who’s within who, who knows who has at least 10 mutual connections with me.

But it like there was some bureaucrat, there was some academic who went off on a rant the other day cause they booked me for a speaking event years ago. And I guess on my linkedin it said I was still like the head of DJ connection and he was like, dude, you’ve got to update that. It’s like, oh you haven’t been the head of that company for like a decade and I just don’t care. You shouldn’t. If it’s still selling, worked at target, I wouldn’t care. Right. Well you did work at targets. So anyway, back to our interview with Guy Kawasaki. You are a guy who loves your family. You love what you do, you’re always smiling, you’re, you’re great. Uh, personality. I know you don’t want to be a role model and I’m not saying you are, you know, maybe we’re all looking down in judging you for looking so young all the time. But your book, the Wise Guy, you decided to write this book, it’s called Wiseguy lessons from a life. What first inspired you to to sit down and write this book? Royalty

royalty.

You said I’m going to make some royalties. That’s my, the Choate. Where’s the joke that I got that? So you’re saying, Hey, I have a lot of stories. I know people want to hear them, so bang, Bang. There we go.

Yeah. More or less. Yeah, I, I want it to run it into the book and I, I thought, Geez, you know, I got enough stories is just put them together in a book and listen, this is not my memoir or my autobiography. Okay. Because unless you’re Nelson Mandela or Mother Teresa or you know Martin Luther King, you don’t write a memoir. So, so this ain’t a mammo. This is, uh, probably many of your listeners have heard of chicken soup for the soul. Chicken soup for the soul are short stories from many different people. This is miso soup for the soul. This is just guys stories about my life and what I learned.

What are you terrible at? I think a lot of people, not our listeners, but they do look up to you and they say, this guy, this guy, his name is guy, he’s great. Good scan, great wife, great kids, four kids, they all serve. What’s going, I just want to be like God. But I’d like for you to share and you don’t have to treating weird, but I mean, what are you, what are you terrible at? What do you say that is? The thing I’m not good at, I think of that would be her surfing is one really, you’re not good at it.

Surfing and hockey are two of my great passions, neither of which I can do very well. So what I figured out is when you love to do something that you’re not good at, it is true love, right? Because anybody can love what you’re good at. How many can love what you’re not good at? So,

um, how much hockey deal? I’m I, how much do you love hockey? I mean, is it like your base is your passion? Well, I

got a transition from hockey to surfing, but I used to play hockey four times a week. He loved hockey.

Who is your favorite player? Uh,

yeah, probably Brett Hall. I just really did was shoot, he’s my kind of guy.

Now I want to ask you this question is this, is, did you, did you like Wayne Gretzky was, he’s kind of your style, your other in California he was looking at

is a bizarre thing. So I started playing hockey at 48 and I started surfing at 62, which is, you know, a few decades too late for each of them. And so when I started hockey at 48, Wayne Gretzky had already retired. I didn’t even know who know who these people were.

Well, I gotta tell you a funny Wayne Gretzky storage only have, I only have a one Wayne Gretzky story yesterday. I’m interviewing a Shep Gordon, you know, the famous manager, or just tell the listeners out there who don’t know. He’s managed Sylvester Stallone and Alice Cooper and all these big iconic names. Uh, I think it’s a Wolfgang puck. I’m interviewing him. He lives in Hawaii now and in the background there’s somebody punking him, you know, some guy making noise and just kind of messing with them. And the person was Wayne Gretzky. We had a lot of stuff in common food,

beautiful women, and we just hit it off. We had again, the same kind of thing. We had a love for life. We both look partiers, had plenty of women in the world. That’s very funny. That’s Wayne Gretzky walking by hearing me talking about women.

Wait, seriously, I’m doing an interview. That was a real thing. So that’s kind of funny. Hilarious. Uh, our earn intentional guy. I know you’re focused on the family, so you’re probably focused on simplicity at some level or you know, just not spending your time doing things that don’t matter. What are the things that you don’t do that you think a lot of people that, and you know you’re not judging. I’m just saying maybe you’re talking to me, you’re saying clay, here are the things that I don’t do that a lot of business people think they have to do answer emails. All right then that’s why it’s a big thing that’ll save at least an hour or two hours, four hours a day for somebody. What a, what else?

Uh, well, you know,

a slightly different answer. What is the secret to my success is that I am willing to grind it out.

Aye. Aye.

Outwork people. And so I’m not smarter than people. I just work harder than people. And that’s kind of my story. Um,

I just love to work.

So with, with Canva, which you’re a brand ambassador for now and your involvement, how did you decide that Canva was a, a good fit for you and, and you know, how do you decide that this is a project I want to invest my time in because you’re going to work hard once you decide. But how do you decide?

Well, the true story with Canva is that I had and still work with her, a person who helps me with my social media, optimizing my posts, et Cetera, et cetera. So this is back five years ago now, and she was using Canva to make graphics for my tweets and she just loved it. So one day the people from Canva reach out to me over Twitter in a suggesting that we talk and meet and all that. And so I got the tweet and I said to her, her name is Peggy Fitzpatrick. I said to her, is this the camp? Is this the company that you use this? This is a company you’re always raving about for graphics? She said, yeah. I said, well, do you think I should help them? And she said, yeah, you should help them. It’s a great company. It’s great for making graphics. And so that’s how I decided because there’s a lesson there too, which is, you know, listen, people who really do listen to people who really do the work, she was really doing the work. She was really at the front line. She knew what was good. So I just listened to her.

Yeah, we have about a half a million downloads a month of our podcast from people who want to drive a Mercedes or do drive a Mercedes. So I like to ask you, do you have a specific, as the ambassador is the bank who gets paid to drive the Mercedes? Uh, do you have a specific make and model that you say that is boom, that’s nice. That’s hot.

Well, right now I’m driving an s 63 so it’s the s class, but the bi turbo, super duper AMG, one of that. However, I will tell you that we just came out with an a series, which is the antithesis of the s series. So the series starts at about 33 grand and it’s kind of a, you know, competes with the entry level BMW entry level, you know. Um, and there’s a part of me that just, Oh, I just jumped in a small car. Uh, you know, good gas mileage, just like dart around. Um, so that’s one I would, you know, if Mercedes called me up today, I said, listen guys wants, want you to swap out cars, what car do you want? I would tell them in a series and if not, then at the other extreme there’s a sprinter, which is the ultimate surf Movil and up coming up very shortly is what’s called an e Q c, which is their basic all electric, a mid size SUV. So that would be, you know, it has like a 220 mile range on, on the battery, uh, holds five SUV size surfboard racks on the top. That, that would be the one.

So let me ask you this here. When you’re not surfing or I’m recovering from hockey injuries or spending time with your, with your family, how do you spend the first four hours of your typical day? Like what time are you waking up and what is your, what is your first four hours look like? A man you don’t want to know. I want to know. I want to know now. I want to know that the, the, the current for the current four hours and I’d like to go back. Okay.

It got, you know, and the first thing I do is I look at three new services. So there’s Google News, Apple News, and smart news. So I look at these three things because I want to see the news. So the, for my social media, I spend a lot of time curating social media. So I need to find a lot of good stories every day. So I do that. Uh, then I drop off my kids. So I, I the, where my son goes to school, it’s half hour there, half hour back. So, you know, okay, well back up a second. So I get up, I get up at six 30 about 50% of the time I’m making breakfast. I take them to school and I come back and now it’s about eight 30 I go to a coffee shop and I do email and answer social media for the next two or three hours. Then I go and eat someplace and then I do another two or three hours of email and social media. Then I pick up a child or two and I come home and then I do email and social media. And that’s your, that’s your world right now. That that’s normal for you. And that’s with me ignoring email. Imagine if I did it again.

Normal. Now, when you were back on your apple days, when you’re out there just grinding every day as an employee and member of that team, what was the schedule expectation like when you worked there?

Uh, we, we had a switcher, it said, uh, working 60 hours a week and loving it. If so, it was, you know, we were working 60 hours and we truly did love it, right? We were on a mission to change the world, the dent, the universe, to make people more creative and productive with a personal computer. It was a great time.

So you, you loved it 60 hours a week and loving that you have a shirt. You all wore the shirt that said working 60 hours a week and loving it. Yup. That’s awesome. That’s not now. Okay. Now this is my final question that I have for you on today’s show. You are a couple come across as a very proactive person. Um, and uh, I’m not hyping you up on not building up as a role model, just saying you come across the proactive guy. How are you going to spend the next 12 months? What’s your vision? What’s your goal? Do you have a goal? Do you have a vision for the next 12 months of your, of your life?

Well, for the Knicks couple months, I’m heavily vested in the introduction of this book. So lots of these kinds of recordings, lots of trips, lots of signings, you know, those kinds of things. Um, as a baseline, you know, I’m always trying to evangelize Canva. Uh, I’m always, I’m always making speeches. I make 50 or 60 speeches a year, so I’m traveling, making speeches. I mean evangelizing Canva. A lot of this travel evolves Mercedes Benz or Canva. And then when I’m not doing it of those things, I’m at home with my family and surfing.

Where do you call the a home these days? Uh, northern California. Northern California. Okay. So I think what we’re going to do, I think the cost of living is pretty high up there in northern California. So I would just say this for the listeners out there, I’m doing a fundraiser in for as little as what guide

$2,000 a day. You could feed a Guy Kawasaki and it’s the only way we can do that is we have to generate royalties. And the only reason we all we can do that is we have to get up. We got to buy the book. So everybody out there, if you’re wise, if you care about your, if you just care about humanity and you want to help support Guy Kawasaki for as little as $2,000 a day, Youtube could support a guy, Kawasaki Guy Missing something there. Is that right? Right.

Well, I don’t want people to buy the book for that reason. I want you to buy the book because it reflects 30 years of living, 30 years of mistakes, 30 years of working my tail off. And I want you to benefit from my experience so that you can optimize your life. You may be able to avoid the mistakes I made. At the very least. I hope you make different mistakes than I made. Um, and you know, I have a personal mantra for my life, which is to empower people. So I think this book will empower you to have a better life. And listen, it’s not one of these get rich quick, you know, buy my book and you’ll be a internet real estate millionaire driving a Mercedes and you know, all that kind of stuff. I’m not an infomercial. I’m not a cult figure. I’m not, you know, that kind of guy. Um, these are simple down to earth stories that taught me about life and I think that they can apply to almost anybody’s life.

And what’s the number one way where people love today show and they say, I want to learn more about you. Is there a particular website you want to direct them to or a Twitter handle? I mean obviously people can Google you, but is there a specific place where you say that right there is me at my best. Go there.

Uh, until you sit me at my best, I had an answer for you.

Oh, so you are not normal self

if you want to see what I mean to and what I’m doing and you know how I’m trying to change the world and you know, whatever, it’s probably my linkedin account. So I post a lot on linkedin. So that’s, that’s sort of my, my serious side. My playful, real life behind the scenes side is Instagram. So between Instagram and Linkedin, you will truly get insights into who I am and I’m warning you right now. That’s for me

better or for worse. I appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to be here on the show. I cannot express with words how much I excitement there was for the whole thrive community to have you on my self included. It just, it means the world to us.

Well thank you. It’s uh, you know, I just love doing these. I mean this is, you get to let it rip on these things. I just love this. So thank you for having me

chop. There are so many knowledge bombs per capita on this show. It was unbelievable. And we have a lot of listeners out there that are note takers and they kind of turn to they, they tuned into the thrive time show radio show or podcast cause they’re looking for practical action steps they can take as a result of what they’ve just learned. In your mind, what are the most practical action steps are and what does it add? A practical action step that the listeners can take as a result of today’s show?

I really like when he talks about just ship your product or service or whatever. You’re sitting there mulling on and going over and over and over and suffering from what we call paralysis by analysis. Just launched that thing, launched that thing. Define act, measure and refine. Get going. Don’t sit around, don’t wait the perfect time. The perfect situation is never going to happen. Act. Now

I have I think five or six action items that I got out of this interview now. Powerful, so I’m just going to recap them. Let’s do it. Um, the first is guy said that he believes the secret of his success is his ability to outwork people. And I have found that when you are around enormously successful people, you will notice that they are the first person at the office. The grind is, and I think that people think that the most successful people are the last person to the office. But that is almost never the case, right? Until the person who achieved massive success wants to hit the easy button and then they no longer want to be there, which I think would be where doctors owner is. It’s exactly what I was thinking. I was the first guy to the office every single day, a week, seven days a week, working forever.

Now he said, you know, I want to hit the easy button. Yup. So he’s still manages his companies and pulls the weeds when needed, but he’s not the first guy in the parking lot. But again, people are so interested in the success, uh, achievement, the winning of the marathon. Very few people are interested in the daily regimen and routine needed to win the marathon. That’s what you have to do. And I know that our listeners are exclusively focused on the daily routines, the practical tactics to the techniques, the processes that people use to become successful. So actually the step number one is outwork everybody, including your competition. Uh, too. I really do believe that everyone has to learn sales. And if you’re out there trying to avoid sales. He said that Lou working at the jewelry store and getting the crap beaten out of him was powerful for him. He sits, that is what taught him how to sell. And he said that there a two essential functions out there. Uh, function number one is you have to make something that people want to buy and function. Number two is you have to able to sell it. And as long as you can make something that people want to buy or sell it, then you win the game of life.

That’s right. And this isn’t just theory, that is like the first or second place. Anybody that gets hired on at the thrive time show starts is on the phones learning how to do sales.

He also said you can’t just coast based on, based on your resume, nor can you let your lack of a resume as an serve as an and an excuse. At the end of the day, you have to, you get paid based on the results that you deliver. You get paid based upon the value that you deliver per, per hour as opposed to just the amount of hours you work. You said you either produce or you don’t produce. It’s that simple. Think about that as an entrepreneur, you get paid based upon the value that you deliver per to each hour, not based on the number of hours that you work. And that is an interesting idea. He also said that he lived in perpetual fear of Steve Jobs and he said that he, uh, loves Steve Jobs and he wouldn’t trade those days in for the days he spent working with Steve for anything. But he also was very clear, very transparent that he and most people were afraid of Steve Jobs.

Yes. And I would say that this is the relationship that most bosses should have with their team. And this is the relationship that you, the listener, an I the host should have with God. Yeah. It talks about in the Bible a lot, having a healthy fear of God if you’re in respect. Right. And I think respect and fear are very tied together. And, uh, yeah, you want your, your, your employees to love you and respect you and you want them to like you. But at the end of the day, if your employees ever get to a place where they think that they are unfavorable, you will lose. He also believes you shouldn’t waste your day checking emails. He says you shouldn’t waste your day checking emails. And he also says, we talked about the f six life, faith, family, finances, fitness, friendship and fun. And He, I asked him what his goals were for the year and he said, I want to surf big time with his kids.

It’s right. All of this, this is kids are them self and that’s what he’s into. So again, if you’re out there today, there’s so much knowledge you can glean out of today’s show. And if you laughed or learned anything during today’s show, I would encourage you to share it with a friend on Facebook, maybe Instagram, maybe Twitter, text somebody, a link text and the link to the thrive time, show.com thrive time, show.com and shut. You know this cause if listeners have told us this, they’ve said, you know, you guys, honestly, I never, I don’t ever share a show and I share it within a couple of minutes after listening because I get busy and I forget. It’s okay. That’s what happens, right? That’s what happens. And so I would just encourage you to, if today’s show impacted your life in some capacity, think about who in your life needs to hear today’s show and share it with them via text or email as soon as possible.

Share it with them on social media because this message, the domestic is on today’s show. The only reason we do this is to help mentor millions. And there’s so many out there that needs to hear what Guy Kawasaki taught today. So share it with them today because you never know whose life you could impact. Do it now. Take action and shop. Without any further ado, we’d like to end each and every show with a boom. Here we go. Are you psychologically ready to bring the boom? Never. I can’t. We can’t be physically ready physically. Right? Are you emotionally ready? Yes. Are you spiritually ready? Yes, but not. What about in a metaphysical way? Are you ready? Absolutely. Okay. Here we got born metaphysically ready Crete and make sure you purchase the book. Wise guy written by Guy Kawasaki at Amazon, Barnes and noble, or anywhere that great books are sold.

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