Managing Millennials | How a Grayson Lafrenz Started a $20 Million Business by Cold-Calling from a Urinal Factory

Show Notes

Cold-calling from a urinal factory? Learn how Grayson Lafrenz started a multi-million dollar company as result of cold-calling from a urinal factory which then taught him how to manage millennials.

Forbes Article –

  1. Grayson, I want to help you on to the Thrivetime Show, how are you my friend?
  2. Grayson, the former botanist who was born a slave, George Washington Carver once wrote, “Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.” However, my understanding is that you did not make excuses when starting your business, which is now nearing $20 million in revenue, although you actually started the company only 5 years ago out of a urinal factory! My friend, is this real? tell us about this…
  3. FUN FACT – Grayson and his partners had already started 4 other companies before
  4. Grayson, I understand that you started your business by making cold calls in the actual urinal factory? Is this correct? What did those early cold calls sold like?
  5. What are your secrets to getting through the gatekeeper
    1. Make the dials – it’s a numbers game.
    2. When you get the gatekeeper, leverage a large account that is their vertical.
    3. Give them as little as possible but enough to get through. Give them something that they cannot say no to.
    4. Your call or email must hit on one of the following emotions:
      1. Ego
      2. FOMO – Fear Of Missing Out
      3. Fear
      4. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “I mistake marketers make is they focus on what the product IS and not what the product DOES.” – Grayson Lafrenz
  6. Grayson, before your success, I’d love to hear how you grew up and your overall background that lead to you founding Power Digital Marketing…?
  7. Grayson, how did you go about acquiring your first 10 customers?
    1. The first 2 were friends. We audited everything at no cost to build value
    2. The one call close was next.
    3. A lot of outbound calls after that. I don’t really remember the ones that came after.
  8. Grayson, from how I understand it, you rely on a millennial team, how do you manage your team while keeping your millenial workforce engaged?
    1. The 3 keys to success with millennials –
      1. Align the team member with the direction of the company.
      2. They need to be growing and improving so that they do not become unmotivated.
        1. NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “Management is mentorship” – Clay Clark
      3. They need to have a path.
  9. I understand that you actually created an in-house MBA program (Motivated, Bold and Ambitious Program) that is specifically designed to meet the needs of the millennial generation that is eager to expand their business knowledge. Can you explain how this helps both your employees and the success of Power Digital Marketing?
    1. We try to be creative with employee development and education.
      1. AKA – Cheap and efficient.
  10. Years ago, the famous best-selling author Zig Ziglar once wrote, “Research indicates that workers have three prime needs: Interesting work, recognition for doing a good job, and being let in on things that are going on in the company.” Grayson how does your company provide your employees interesting work, recognition for doing a good job and let people in on things that are going on in the company?”
  11. Grayson, recently you were named as the second fastest growing company in San Diego and that you helped to land your business on the INC 5000 list multiple years in a row, to what do you attribute your success?
  12. Grayson, I now want to really focus on the specific schedule that you keep and your daily routines. On a typical day, what time do you wake up and what do the first 3 hours of your day typically look like?
    1. Up at 5:00 and out quickly
    2. Drive to the office with the dog
    3. Make it to the office by 6:00-6:30 – this is my sacred time to get the ON the business work done.
    4. Between 8:00-5:00 I am trying to be available to the team and working on revenue-generating activities.
  13. Grayson, what is a daily routine or habit that you do on a daily basis that you think has contributed to the overall success of
  14. Grayson, what are a few books that you would recommend to our listeners that really made the biggest impact on you so far?
  15. Grayson, in a world where 9 out of 10 businesses fail according to Forbes, why do you think most businesses fail and why has your company succeeded?
    1. One Minute Manager
    2. The Hard Thing About Hard Things
    3. Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck


  1. Check out the Flip The Switch Podcast

If You Want to Effectively learn how to Manage Millennials or Any Other Demographic of People:

  1. You must be a source of wisdom and more than just a paycheck
  2. You must be a source of inspiration and more than just a paycheck
  3. You must have systems and processes in place before you hire people
  4. You must be a decisive person before you hire people
  5. You must be a detailed person before you hire people
Business Coach | Ask Clay & Z Anything

Audio Transcription

Thirteen multimillion dollar businesses, eight kids, one business coach radio show. It’s the thrive time business coach radio show. Get ready to enter the thrive time show.

All right, thrive nation. Welcome back to the conversation. It is the thrive time show on your radio and we’re interviewing a guest from San Diego Fo Sho, Dr Z. my wife’s from San Diego, so I feel a metaphysical.

You gotta love San Diego Weather. Hey, you don’t have to live around. Although San Diego, San Diego, San Diego, my wife and I fell in love in San Diego is 18 years ago. How about that

chop? That’s very, very impressive, but not nearly as impressive for the romance was impressive, but not nearly as impressive as a having started a $20,000,000 company by cold calling from a urinal factory. I mean there’s a lot of places. There’s a lot of challenging circumstances where somebody might start their company by cold calling it an apartment or a condo without air conditioning or maybe from a van, but to start a $20,000,000 business by cold calling from a urinal factory. That is impressive. So Z, I’m super excited to interview today’s guest, Mr Grayson love friends.

Race. I just, I just want to, I got to ask a question right off the bat. Here we go. It’s pretty emotional. I know and I hope it doesn’t hit a nerve and make you hang up the phone and never want to talk to us again. Well, how do you feel about losing your chargers?

Oh Man. That, that hits where it hurts. I’m actually a San Diego native as well and there’s very few of us here. I think that’s why we lost the chargers because do you ever go to a charger game? A qualcomm. There’s typically more raider fans are steeler fans or whatnot, but uh, but it hurts for sure. You know, I’m still trying to hang on as a fan and I think that it looks like it will be a good season, but I definitely don’t feel that, you know, emotional connection and follow it as close as I did in the past.

You know, the. Since you started off with the tough, rude question, I’m going to go ahead.

That’s my toughest question first. Um,

you know, you’re a guy who started your company power, digital with whatever tools you have. You know, George Washington Carver, the famous botanist who was born a slave, he didn’t even know his birthday, he said 99 percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses. I mean, you started this company, which is now nearing $20,000,000 in revenue five years ago out of a urinal factory is what I looked at a urinal factory. So my friend, what were you doing in the urinal? Why don’t you start a company?

You’re just hanging out. Why don’t you start a company out of the urine? Olfactory. Yeah. So that is almost true. I’ll give you the slight tweak. So actually, you know, my partners and I, um, had helped to found a waterless urinal cartridge company and it was an incredible business. Um, it was actually a Italian engineer that, that had the product and the patents. And so we built that business up and built the distribution network. And then we actually got into some litigation, learned some great lessons about the plumbing code and kind of what it rack it that can be. And so we, uh, we were fighting the good fight in court against the biggest competitor who’s product we were retrofitting and, and uh, they got a judgment against us and so we are kind of in a holding pattern and we’re really good at Internet marketing and driving leads in and uh, you know, converting a revenue through the web. And so we started offering that service to some friends’ companies and whatnot. And, and the rest was history. So it was, it was, uh, it was actually more of a, a urinal warehouse then find the factory as a little bit better ring. So I think some of the team members have gone with that story occasionally. Same, same difference.

So you didn’t see the yellow warning signs in the urinal thing. Okay. So now you, you started by making some cold calls from this facility. Who are you cold calling? Who were you talking to about your, that you learned how to market effectively, digitally. Who, what kind of people were you calling? Were you cold call and other businesses where you cold calling people’s fear so much cold calling. How are you cold calling? How did you cold call? What did you do?

Yeah, so two things on that. One is we had started for other companies prior so we had worked with agencies and we’re always really frustrated by the fluffiness of the typical agency. So that’s why we really started power of digital as well as because you know, we saw a gap where brands wanted somebody that can drive revenue and profit and that’s what we’re good at. And so the first couple companies we got through a referral, just friends that we had other entrepreneurs that had businesses that we are able to help. But then as we were getting some traction there and then deciding, hey let’s let’s do this and let’s do this for real. You know, I picked up the phone and it’s funny because we thought we had this client for five years and it was a one call close. The only one call close and the history of our company that’s like the most anti our process approach.

We’re very consultative. We typically do a full audit but literally got lucky called these guys and they were right time, right place and they were all over it and it was a one call close, you know, put the paper in the fax machine and send it over type of a type of deal. But for me it was always comfortable. I started my career at Xerox and I started sales and so it was always very used to picking up the phone and dial in and working to get through to decision makers and getting their interest and running that process.

How did you go about acquiring your.

Hold on, hold on. If we sits that pretty fun and I think it’s something that people out there would love to hear. Tell me a couple of your tricks, your super powers, your fun stories on how you maneuver through the gatekeepers to get to the decision makers because that is a lot of times it’s dark, it’s a, it is an art car, but it’s a lot of people find it impossible to get to them and they’ve got. They’ve got a great story but they can’t get to the decision maker. You’ve got to have a few little secrets out there. Come on.

Yeah, definitely. So it’s definitely gotten harder and I think that the sales prospecting is moving more to email in general and we can come back to that, but on the phone, what’s always worked for me is a simple formula one is a, you just have to make the dial. So it’s a numbers game obviously and you just have to accept that you got to make 100 dials to talk to 20 people. You talked to 20 people, you can get five of them, you know, so you’ve got to work that equation backwards. Number two is, as you’re calling in and you get the gatekeeper, you want to always leverage a marquee account to their vertical. So if I’m calling on a big insurance company, you know, I want to tell that gatekeeper, hey, I worked with x, Y, z insurance company that they would know I helped him with this, this, and this.

That’s what I want to talk to Bob, the CEO about. So that helps get credibility through. And then typically with the gatekeeper, you want to give them as little as possible, um, but enough that they’ll put you through because they can’t say yes, they can only say no. And so you want to try to give them something that they can’t say no to, that they have to kick up to that c level, um, and that they don’t really have the authority to say no to. So those have been the tricks of the trade, but I think you got to be very verticalized. So going after a vertical, hitting on one or two pain points, having those marquee accounts that you’re referencing to build credibility and then not giving the gatekeeper too much info to where they can easily say no and, and you know, we do out of the bunch

z, those are some knowledge bombs right there. That’s out there. Right. And I was taking notes and going, that’s the secret sauce I’ve been looking for. So thank you grace and I really appreciate you sharing that with me.

Z A wall. The listeners are out there are kind of taken some notes real quick. I wanted to give some non-helpful advice that we had a caller calling earlier today. They called in and this was their advice for how to be more effective, cool car. This will allow our listeners grace and just a chance to take down some notes, kind of organize their thoughts on a note takers and then we’re gonna go right back to you with a hot questions. Here we go. This is a soda called in earlier today and they said only cold calling. I’ve got some great tips. Chubb wouldn’t let them through, but chuck, thank you so much for recording their car when they’re calling and airing it on the show here without their permission. Thank you so much. A lot of pressure. You’ve got to rise above it. You get a harness and the good energy. Work out the band, harness

energy, block bad. Feel the flow happy. Feel it. It’s circular. It’s like a carousel. You pay the quarter, you get on the horse, it goes up and down and round. Circular Circle with the music, the flow. All good things.

So great of you to archive the for four tips. All good thing. We’re not getting it done like Mr Grayson. So Grayson, how did you go about acquiring those shirt? Is that a wedding crashers outtake right there? I don’t think that’s an actual call that Joel told me. Chop Chop. Very happy voice mail, but come on, try to verify just truth bombs. It’s all we land on this. I was watching the Gilmore girls and this guy called it happy. Happy Gilmore. Chuck, we catch you up. We’re gonna. Okay, so how’d you go about acquiring your first 10 customers?

Yeah, so uh, you know, the first you were friends essentially friendlies that we got referred into that got burned by, um, by other agencies and so we came in warm, we believe in this real consultation process, so we came in and we got him to their analytics accounts and we audited everything at no cost and gave them a bunch of value in advance. And then by the end we showed them all the, you know, all the good, the bad, the ugly, and they were asking us to help them. And so those were probably the first two. Then we have that cold call that I mentioned. It was just the one call close.

I honestly don’t remember exactly how he got the others, but a lot of that early grows this through channel partners. And then where we would sit they were working with the same customer but a different product and they trusted us and would refer us in. So got us in the door. And then I’m also just some outbound and I was saying, you know, I’ve seen it shift big time when it comes to sales prospecting email prospecting from an outbound perspective is proven to be a lot more successful. And I that makes me cringe as somebody that started their career in sales because that seems like a lazy approach to go and like something that somebody that’s scared to get rejected on the phone would do. But really I know for myself, you know, when a salesperson gets me on the phone these days, I’m usually not in the mood and frustrated versus a really pointed email, you know, they can get my attention. So we leverage that in the early days to, to get in. And then we did great work and angry the base and kind of got referred around. So we were very opportunistic in those early years. And um, I think that’s a little bit of the scrappiness that, that we had to have and did a lot of companies have to have is they’re getting things off the ground,

you know, short of, of bringing a megaphone to the table when you’re sitting your emails because you want to get people’s attention with the email you might want to. There’s got to be an art to it. Your grace, it’s gonna become a, he’s, he’s who you have become a female artist, not, no, not in a subway sandwich artists kind of a way where you’re essentially just a person who’s letting people choose what color of bread they want. But an actual artist of the email Picasso, Picasso of the email. So again, if you’re out there and you don’t have a megaphone,

I want to ask you what is the best way to write an effective email if you don’t have a megaphone, but you want to get people’s attention.

Yeah, great question. A super customized, short and sweet as the answer. So we do this for a lot of brands now. We used to only do it for ourselves, but we run a lot of these prospects and campaigns now for brands and the key is to have those same as the, as the phone call, have that vertical list so you can talk about very specific experience and pain points to then have it be super short and conversational so it doesn’t feel like a copy paste job and um, and that’s the key and you just gotta you gotta hit on one of the emotions, either ego, kind of stroking them and making them feel great and you hit ego Fomo, fear of missing out. So, hey, these guys are doing this and winning big, um, or just overall fear, like, hey, if you don’t do this, this could happen. So if you got to hit on one of those emotions, do it really quick and conversationally, and then do it very specific to their business and vertical. So short,

like Danny Devito know what you’re saying is, is that you do a, you can’t refuse. I’m going to make you an offer you can’t refuse otherwise. My boys are gonna. Look at it. Come over and see you and it’s not going to go another day without using the trunk. Have to use it today, but we call him johnny the handouts. You’ll be living in a women’s swimming with the fishes down by the river. Grayson, what kind of, how do you, how do you

create fear via email? What do you do?

So fair would just be. I mean, there’s tons of examples, but you know, potential pitfalls. So if you’re targeting a CEO, like what is their biggest fears that you’re solving, you know, typically if you have a good business or a product or service, you’re solving a problem. So what are the fears that they have associated with that problem? So I think the biggest mistake that salespeople make and also an email marketing as they focus on what the product is as opposed to what it does. And so it’s kind of, you know, what are you doing for them? And then focusing on that and the fears that they have around not doing that. So that’s, that’s the key there.

So I want to ask you this next question here. Um, you have become a master of marketing, a master of acquiring customers, but a lot of listeners say, I just cannot find good people. Furthermore, I have to hire quote unquote millennials and there’s a lot of people. I have a large. My team is a largely millennial team. I would say the vast majority of my team is millennial. I have no problem employing hundreds and even teaching how to manage millennials. It’s not a problem for me, but I know a lot of people that have a huge issue with. They act as though what they, in every employee that they hire, I’m just cannot do a good job. It’s impossible tolearn how to manage millennials. What advice would you have for the listeners out there who are struggling to manage a largely team because you buy large employee pretty much a millennial team?

Yeah, totally. We have about 60 team members at our office in San Diego and I think probably 58 are millennials and my, I’m a millennial myself. So it’s definitely, I don’t know if that number is totally accurate, but it’s the vast majority. And, um, you know, I, I read those articles too and I can relate. I mean, I’ve definitely seen many of my peers early in my career that represented everything that I think drives people crazy about millennials, but the team members that we have here in my encounter with really talented, driven millennials is that if you manage them the right way, they will work way harder than any other generation. It’s not just a job for them, it’s something that they take a lot of pride into. And so our keys to success have really been three simple things. Number one is really aligning them with the bigger vision of what we’re doing. So they want to see how the role that they’re playing feeds into this much bigger a vision and this big impact that we’re making. And so, you know, they don’t want to just be doing their little role and, and they want to see, you know, how does that feed into everything else?

Quick, I want to interrupt for just for second, I want to share something. Um, you’re saying that the millennial workforce by and large wants to see how what they do matters that is almost opposite of the people that I employ who are baby boomers. I have a few baby boomers that I employ and typically, and now this isn’t always, this is a generality, but a lot of the baby boomers that I paid over the years have said, you know, I just want to get a check and go home. I’m not really interested in a big vision. I’m not interested in making the world a more convenient place and improving the world. I just want to go home. But a lot of millennials do put their heart and soul into the business more. It’s like if they don’t care, you’re going nowhere. But once they do care, they’re all. And that’s a powerful, powerful teaching moment for somebody out there at 100 percent agree with what you’re just saying. Can you read? Can you share with us your, your next principal’s got that is so powerful.

Yep. And you said it spot on. I’ve seen the same exact thing. And number two is they need to be growing. And improving, so the second that they feel like they’re just, you know, taking this paper and putting it here and they’ve mastered something and they’re no longer approving their own skillset and writing and drawing their knowledge, they will become very unmotivated. So you just have to be pushing them aggressively so that they’re getting better. Which I mean, as an employer, what do you want more than a workforce that wants to strive to get better? It’s, it’s amazing. I will say this second.

This is, uh, I, I tell my listeners all the time on the show and it’s so great to have somebody who echoes that, who teaches that, who we’ve never met. But you have the same mindset about this management today is mentorship. If you’re not willing to mentor your employees, get off the field because I’m telling you, they will go to another job and it’s not about just a paycheck. They want to be mentored. They want to be growing in their personal development skills. Grace in you’re spot on. What’s your tip number three?

And number three is that clear path. So in my business, the agency world, there’s a very high turnover rate typically with team members and a power digital. We have a 95 percent employee retention rate, which is like through the roof. And I think that those first two principles are key. But the third is you need to have really creative paths for them to own things and, and develop into a leader. And so the key is to have multiple different ways that that can go. And so we’re a very entrepreneurial company. So even if a team is behind a department head that’s amazing and loves their job and it’s not going anywhere, that team member can become a leader of a committee or they can launch a whole new product or service and have that be like their side hustle until it hits a certain profitability metric and then they could run that part of our offering. And so we give them a lot of different abilities to be leaders to grow and to not hit a glass ceiling. And so if we’re doing those three things well then typically they’re going to work incredibly hard for you. They’re going to be really outside the box thinkers and major assets to the company and they’re, and they’re going to stick around and, and, and want to see that vision through,

you know, I’ve heard you write about or talk about your in House Mba program, which you, which stands for motivated, bold and ambitious program that is specifically designed to meet the needs of that generation. Is that where you create the paths for your employees or, or where does this motivated bold and ambitious program? Is Mba program come into a use?

Yeah, so we’ve always been creative and employee education and development. Um, and what I mean by that is cheap but efficient. So we’ve kind of been entrepreneurial in that approach. So we’ve had this mentorship program and in the past that we make a whole game out of it. But this Mba one I think is one of the coolest. This was the, uh, this was actually one of our team members, kate dot bell on our PR team. This was her idea. I was preaching that, you know, as marketers, it’s not okay to just be a great marketer. We need to be, we need our team members to be incredibly business savvy. We need to be consultants for, for businesses. And so that was a big theme that I was pushing at the beginning of the year and kate have the idea what we should do, an MBA.

I’m at power digital. And so we kinda heard her out and she started putting it together and took action, which is one of our core values and next thing you know, what we ended up doing is we broke it out into about six modules. So everything from business, a lot to operations to sales to accounting. And then we’d have an executive sponsor from our company that would lead that and go through a deck. And then we reached out to our network. A lot of the people through the Entrepreneur Organization, the chapter here in San Diego. And we brought in guest speakers. We brought in, you know Matt Garrett from Tgg accounting is one of the top, you know, outsource cfo firms to talk about accounting. And we brought in all types of experts because they’re used to hearing what I say and what others. And you know, some, a different perspective from an expert is really valuable and so then they would come in and speak and then we would do a whole test at the end and it was kind of gamified and we did it every week and it was a what Wednesday mornings it started at 7:00 AM.

It was totally optional for them to attend. And it was incredible because it costs nothing. The team members would be in the office earlier than normal because a lot of times our team members, they can kind of cruise and when they want typically at nine. So this thing would end at 8:30 and they’d be starting their day earlier and the team members were so fired up and we’re improving. And so it was like one of those, you know, again, Aha moments like what? This makes so much sense. You know, the result we got was incredible. The effort was low. There’s really no fixed cost with it, you know, why are more companies not doing this? And it was just a great idea that one of our team members had and she went for it and we supported it and, and it’s been a not only great learning, but we’ve also gotten a lot of really cool press coverage from it and a lot of other kind of marketing benefits, you know, through doing that program. How old are you at last count? How old am I? Thirty three.

So you’re 33, but yet your company was named as the second fastest growing company in San Diego. Um, you landed on the inc 5,000 list for multiple years in a row is a fast growing company and you have good hair, Z, Z, Z Xie. Typically what happens is when you’re 33 and your company’s growing like that shirt, the hair starts to take, your hair starts to disappear. You got really good lettuce. I mean a really good mop that appears to not stop, won’t stop precedent. I mean, you have what Michael Bolton wanted. You’ve got that incredible, incredible hair. You’ve got a great growing business. So I want to ask you, how are you keeping the hair follicles engaged? And then how are you growing a company so successfully at the young age of 33 years old fish oil?

Yeah, I mean it’s, it’s a team effort in terms of the company. We put it out, it’s all about the team and again that retaining the team and building the best team. And I was cheap on that early on and I learned it the hard way with some of the original employees we have, but we have just the best people and they’re so passionate and they do so much and so it makes the job really easy and it keeps me super energized and engaged. And so when we have a great team, then we have a great product and service and we have a great product and service. Our customers become major advocates and not only with the business we do, we were in the business of helping brands make more money online and it’s real measurable. So when we make them more money, they give us.

They want to just spend more and more and more. So I think that’s really been our major driver, you know, in terms of growing the company. And then in terms of staying sane and, you know, keeping the air, it’s, it’s all just a, you know, Rogaine. No, I’m kidding. Oh No. Oh Wow. Well it’s uh, it’s, you know, we have this kind of philosophy and I think with a lot of our team members, they care so much, but I’ve always preached it and it’s, it. I, I use this going back to college. But when something bad happens, it’s just reflecting and saying, all right, what’s the lesson? But really saying, okay, am I going to care about this? Is this going to matter in my life in one month from now? And if the answer’s no, then there’s no point in stressing on it, you know, take the lesson and move on. If the answer’s yes, then yeah, maybe we should have a little bit more conversation about it. But typically, you know, those stressful moments, the answer’s always no. And so take the lesson and move on and, and you know, green snake positive. And so that’s Kinda been a big core ethos that we’ve had to try because the agency world can be pretty stressful. And, and that’s been a big way that we’ve helped you know, myself and then also our team members kind of distress and keep things in perspective.

Gracie, if you set your org chart based upon how much hair somebody has, that is, that. Is it like, okay, you’ve got the next most hairs that your vice president of the Mohawk Division, the uh, yeah. You’re, you’re a VP maybe, you know, a very positive

man. That’s funny. Our vp of client success has more hair than you’d ever seen. He’s gone.

He wrote the whole thing. That’s a precedent. We would be whole thing. Now I want, I want to ask you this question because you, uh, appear to be from what I can read online and what I’ve been to your website and checked out. And then the Forbes article about you, you appear to be a well read guy, a guy who’s pretty, pretty measured. You have a daily routine that appears to make sense for you. On a typical day, what time do you wake up and where do you spend those first three hours of your typical day?

Yeah, so I’m, I’m an early morning person. I do my best work in the morning so I usually get up at five. I’m usually um, yeah, I get up at five, I get ready quickly out of the office. I’m gonna get a drive to the office with the dogs, so that’s fun and then drop him off and then I’m usually in the office by six between six and 6:30 and that’s like my sacred time because a lot of our teams in later. So you know, I’m able to, I typically will get through those emails quickly and then that’s when I can really get my work done in front of the computer and really working on the business. And then between eight and five I try to be, you know, available for the team and, and doing the Rga now that revenue generating activities on Rga is talking about the Rga, Rga, oh, you’re going to be done.

And so that, you know, I started my career in sales and I’ve, I’ve always believed that between that eight and five, you have to be, if you’re the CEO of that company or you want to be a driver, you have to be focused on those rgas. And so talking to a potential revenue growth opportunities, whether that’s within your current customer base, whether that’s new products or services or new prospects or partnerships. And so I try, you know, if you saw my calendar, I’m crazy with the calendar and I think it would probably stress most people out. But I mean I’m, I’m booked from eight to five typically in meetings and have that all planned out. So that morning time is my precious time. And then usually this time of the day, you know, I’m just not as sharp. And so I try to, uh, you know, have the end of the day more for just kind of tightening things up. And

well that’s how we wanted to have you on. At the end of the day I asked your, your next know they won’t verify that we have this conversation. We might not have actually had it, but it was more of a mental telepathy thing I thought because you’re a sharp guy and I didn’t want to be one up to by you. So I said, bring them down in is the time of the day where he’s at his worst Z. Yeah, exactly. Get Him, get him on the show. Then

crazy. What happens? Like I want them at the bottom. What happens with clay and I, it’s about 9:00 at night. I’m done when I start to shine and he starts to decline. Oh yeah. And that’s when, that’s when he starts to require 30. I’m just thinking about the diva light. I’m a, I’m a night owl. He’s a morning lark. And so, you know, we, we kind of crossed paths throughout the day, you know, it’s kind of, he’s, he gets up charging and you know, I’m going to bed when he’s getting up charging you and then vice versa. So, uh, that’s interesting. And, and you know what? A lot of people, a lot of successful people, early morning guys, but you don’t have to be. If you’re listening out there and you say, I’m going to have a late night guy, get whenever the time is. Steven. Tyler is a late night guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and a lot of concerts in the morning. Here’s what I see. That was a lot of guys and they say I’m a late night guy and then they don’t actually work like after they eat dinner, but I’m a late night guy so if you’re going to be a late night guy, actually, yeah.

Okay. Now Grayson, here we go. I. This is my final two questions for you here today, my friend. Did you, you, you’re, you’re a well read man. What are a few of your favorite books that you would recommend for the entrepreneurs out there? We have hundreds of thousands of people that download this podcast. This podcast is going to be released here in about two weeks and I predict based upon our current growth, we’re very close to be number one overall of all on all categories are very close to hitting the top on the itunes charts. So this might be heard by hundreds of thousands of humans. My aliens, so no pressure, no pressure, but there’s a lot of pressure. Um, what books would you recommend to our entrepreneurial listeners out there?

Yeah, that’s a great question. I’m a book. I ordered them faster than I can read them, but I use audible as well on that. That works well. And so, um, I loved it. I’d say there’s, there’s kind of three that stick out to me. One is literally the most simple and best management book I’d ever read is the one minute manager. Oh, come on. It’s so good. Yes. Yep. And we, uh, we based our leadership development program and teach others how to manage millennials off this and it’s just three very simple principles. And so I love that book because you can read it in ours. It’s so easy to put into action and so straightforward. So that, that last year, the book, the hard thing about hard things, no one had a huge impact on me. It was like that book when I, when I bought that book and it was referred to me, it was like, it was just like a timing thing. It was like the perfect timing and so literally was able to move people around, put them in the right seats and understand, you know, different personalities and the types of skills that companies need at different phases in the business life cycle. And that one was really impactful. And then

sweet mother of Horowitz, Ben Horowitz’s, author of hard things about hard things and he’s been pretty successful. He sold his company for one point, $6, billion dollars, opsware to a Hewlett Packard’s right now one of the most successful venture capitalists read hard. The hard thing about hard things. The one minute manager, great book. You’re, you are two for two days. We go. Can you one up yourself?

Yeah. The last one I was gonna say is the subtle art of not giving a f. are you going through my bookshelf? Is this what’s happening here? That one’s great too. I think that one just keeps people in perspective and again it goes back to that whole, you know, one of our core values which is just not taking yourself too seriously. And, and that one models that. That’s another one that’s super easy to read, so those are a few that probably stand out right now

and that book, just so the listeners don’t think that our guest is a horrible, horrible person for recommending a book with a sort of subtle title Mark Manson is the author and the book is about how you really have to know what you care about because you only have so many things you can care about and then you shouldn’t care about anything that’s not on your core care list, so to speak. And so I know you care massively about your employees, your customers, your family. Um, and I think a lot of listeners want to know just so we get a little tapestry for you. Are you married? Are you married? Guide. Do you have kids? Do you live in a van down by the river? What are you doing on a personal level there?

Yeah, I’m married. I’ve been married for over four years and my wife Jen and I, we met when we were in college actually my senior year in college. She was a year younger at the University of Arizona. So a wow for a long, long time and yet we have a house, a puppy and, and uh, you know, good life. I’m super lucky. She’s amazing. And uh, you know, she’s a hustler too. I mean, she uh, she has a sales background and was in sales management. I mean, she can, she can outsell almost anyone I know. So she keeps me in check and does she work in the business? You know, we’d kill each other. She uh, she works at ADP, the payroll companies. She’s worked there for like eight years and she loves that, loves that company and they’re a big public company that’s done really well. So we’re signed up on all their products. Of course, of course, of course you are. And what kind of dog is it? Miniature Schnauzer. He’s a, he’s a puppy, but he’s, he’s got an attitude. He definitely, I think he thinks he’s a human. I didn’t do a good job, so the dominance thing with them, but uh, but yeah, he’s awesome. And so a lot of fun.

Well Great. So we’d like to end every show with a boom because a boom here stands for big, overwhelming, optimistic momentum, but we think that’s what it takes for all the listeners to apply what they’re learning today. Um, is there an action step though, before we wrap up the show that you would encourage all of our listeners to take? Is there a website you want them to visit? Is there a, a game show you want them to watch for the next three years in a row? I mean, is there something you want all of our listeners to do? What’s the most actionable? What’s the best action step for all of our listeners out there?

Yeah. So one for sure you guys might not like this one, but we, uh, we actually have a podcast here at the agency that four of our team members have put on a lot. They work hard. It’s very different than yours, but it’s called flip the switch. So check that out. And a lot of, I think they’ll enjoy that. It’s all about technology trends, everything from bitcoin to ecommerce to what Amazon’s doing, all that good stuff. So it’s kind of a timely what’s going on in the news type of podcast.

Zeal. Say this, uh, what, what makes our podcast different from Grayson’s is Grayson’s is focused on quality. Yes. Integrity, intelligence, intelligence into, to detail, attention to detail, and we’re focused on and where we focused on blah. We don’t have a hop up. Oh No, no. I remember. I remember. Remember, I remember. What is it? I don’t remember. Okay. Nice. Nice hair. We don’t need further. Then we’re gonna end with the boom grayson and see if you can join us live. We go, here we go. Three, two, one.


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