Melanie Katzman, Ph.D. | CONNECT FIRST: 52 Simple Ways to Ignite Success, Meaning, and Joy at Work

Audio Transcription

On today’s show. pH D Melanie Katzman, the bestselling author of the new book connect first 52 simple ways to ignite success, meaning and joy at work shares with you specific and actionable ways to make better connections with people on the planet earth as humans, if you’ve ever struggled to connect with your colleagues and coworkers, this show is for you.

Some shows don’t need a celebrity in a writer to introduce the show, but this show does to me. Eight kids co-created by two different women, 13 Moke time million dollar businesses. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome

because the thrive time show

[inaudible]. Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Gentlemen, on today’s show, I am honored to be joined with a doctor, a business psychologist and advisor and a consultant to some of the world’s top public and private companies. She’s been featured on the, uh, in the New York times on O magazine, vanity fair, Josh. Basically that the publications that won’t let me be featured in them, she’s been on those publications, so she’s pretty long list, sir. She’s classy. She’s a great American. Thank you ms Melanie Katzman for being on the thrive time show. How are you?

I’m terrific and I’m really happy to be here.

Okay, well I, I, we have so much ground to cover, but I want you to, to start and, and, and kind of share with us. You’ve had a lot of success, but where did you grow up mean? Where did you come from? My friend.

Okay. Well, something that I think I come from Mars, but I come from suburban long Island. Um, I’m actually first generation. Um, my parents were, um, children of Russian immigrants. They didn’t go to college. Um, my dad built a successful diamond business. My mom didn’t work outside of the house. Um, but she raised my sister and myself to never rely on a man for money. Um, my sister was the first class of women at Yale. She went on to Harvard law school. I got my PhD and my mother wants to wear a sign that said I have a doctorate in lawyer and they’re both my daughters

well now. Wow. Okay. Wow. You, you, you have made my mind explode. Here you were. Where did you go to school at?

Um, well I went to Jericho high school, but all good suburban girls go to public school. And then it went on to the university of Pennsylvania where I did my undergraduate work and then I got my graduate degree, my masters and my doctorate at Arizona state, um, in Tempe. And then I went on to do my internship at Bellevue hospital, which is part of NYU. And then I did my postdoctoral fellowship at Cornell.

This just in thrive nation, she knows what she’s talking about. And now that you have proven yourself yet again, I want to ask you about this new book connect first. What, what inspired you to write this new book? What is this book about? Tell us about connect first 52 simple ways to ignite success, meaning and joy at work.

Well, thanks for asking. I’m connect first is really my effort to help people do just that, to connect first as humans, as fellow individuals, and then as colleagues, as coworkers and as clients in this digital age. We have a lot of people that are staring into screens, hooked up to their headphones collecting likes and followers, but they have forgotten how to relate. And this book is a reminder for those who once knew and a primer for those who need to know.

I feel like what you just said is, is very, very profound. So I just want to marinate on that for just a second. I’m going to cue up my kind of marination music. I think you just said in our world we’re in today, people are connected to digital devices collecting likes, but they’re not really connecting. Can you clarify what you mean by that? Cause I, I agree, but I would like for you to go, I know you’ve researched this, I just want you to be able to really share what you mean by that.

Well, I think that there’s a way in which we think we have either had a conversation or sharing an emotion because we added an emoticon to our text message or we included someone on a distribution list or we’ve liked their Instagram, but that’s not what relationships are built on. Relationships are built on a deeper level of sharing. And this doesn’t have to be scary vulnerability, but this is looking into someone’s eyes, listening to what they have to say, actually having a conflict and clearing it. I think many people think that relationships are, um, the results of always getting along. And that’s not the case. Some of the deepest and best relationships are forged from a conflict that’s been overcome. And people move very fast. They trade efficiency over real sincerity and people sell them are picking up the phone and hearing one another. Scores are going to the persons who might be just down the hall and having a conversation. So there’s so many ways I think we have been handicapping ourselves, um, by not having the experience of the other individuals. We have information exchange, picture exchange, digital exchanges, but we don’t have really the emotional exchange.

I would like maybe for you to give the former version of me dating tips because I remember my business, this true story, this is terrible. I was named the entrepreneur of the year for the small business administration for Oklahoma back in 2007 kind of a, we had about 4,000 DJ, 4,000 events a year. We would DJ as a pretty big company at the time. I was 27 and I remember going to Oklahoma city to get an award and my wife turns to me and she says, Hey, after we do the whole word thing, do you think you can schedule time for our kids? And I’m like, Oh man, I forgot my kids and I had done that kind of stuff for years and something when she hit me with that truth, with that knowledge bomb [inaudible] just slap in the face. I knew it was true. It was, it was, it was harsh. It was real. It helped me realize, gosh, I was with my kids pre, physically, but never emotionally or mentally cause I would never put down that phone that was 2007 you know, with the, with a singular phone, they would go down and Aaron, Aaron and Aaron Aaron here, I didn’t have all the things we have now. Can you, can you coach us?

Okay. Do you know like people [inaudible] first of all, you need to be present, right? So people end up being in the same place. But as you say with your kids, you’re there physically but you’re not there emotionally. Right. And people will say, Oh, we’re going to now schedule a touch base. Right? So in some companies, people are actually scheduling that, that play date with their associates, but then they have their computer open, their phone on the beeps and buzzes are going and their face is still focused on electronics as opposed to the person in the space with them. So whether you’re dating or you’re parenting or you’re managing, you’d need to be present. It’s showing up physically is a good start. But it’s not enough.

You know, in your book, uh, connect first you offer 52 simple ways to ignite success and meaning and enjoy at work, which is good because I’m a very simple guy and so a simple book, it is great for me. I don’t want, one of our listeners are geniuses. We have a lot of smart listeners out there, but could you maybe share a few of the simple ways, maybe just highlight a couple that if I were to pick up that book, maybe did I could practically apply right now because our listeners love to apply these things and I think just maybe two or three would be great.

Absolutely. My pleasure. And you know, one of the things about the word simple, and believe me, we spent a lot of time thinking about that word is they’re simple to do, but they’re not always easy for people to do. So the whole point of the book is to take away the excuses so that nothing takes a lot of time and nothing cost a lot of money. Therefore they are simple. They’re not always easy. And that’s why I wrote the book. Um, so I’ll give you some of the super simple like get the basics right and then we’ll move. I’ll give you some of the power moves. So on the super simple look up and make eye contact, like literally raise your eyes so you in the elevator rather than looking at your phone, look at the person who’s running 32 floors with you. People ask me all the time about networking and they miss an opportunity to network in their own office building because everyone’s just returning a text while they’re riding together.

That is so true. So true. That’s, that’s powerful right there. Look up, make eye contact. That is, that’s good. Okay. You can hit continue my friend.

Alright, another simple one. Call people by their name. Like when you walk into your building, who do you see? Cause now you’re looking, do you know their name? You can pass the same people all the time. You don’t know their name. Do you work on a floor with lots of people are in cubicles and you don’t go the names of the people you’re passing. Hearing your is a neural ignition key. It lights people up, it brings them to attention. And if you don’t call someone by their name, they become just another number or another cog in the wheel. So simple look up, call someone by their name and for extra credit, say please or thank you. So these are just like basic basics.

I’ll tell you this, uh, w w I’m from Oklahoma. Um, and Mike, we have five kids and uh, I’m notorious for doing this. But if we believe a restaurant or something and my kids don’t say please or thank you, we have to go back in and reset that. So we have to see you to go back in and say thank you to the cashier. And I can’t tell how many times a cashier will tell me you’re the only person that does this anymore. And I think we have to, as a culture kind of reset a little bit, some of those old school values. I mean saying please and thank you really does make you stand out.

And I’ve heard people say, Oh, I don’t need to say thank you. It’s their job, but okay, okay, maybe their job, but let people have a sense of agency and a sense of pride in what they’ve done. And so you know what you’re doing with your kids. I think managers need to do on a day to day basis and coworkers need to do with each other. So those are like super simple basics. If you’re not doing it, start doing it. Then I think for managers, and one of the things that gets missed all the time is people don’t have the context, the permission and the clarity to carry out their roles. So you know, you can have a job title, but that doesn’t necessarily mean something to more so over time. And people struggle to know, what do I have permission to do? How far should I push?

You have very motivated people who don’t actually use all of their skills because they’re afraid to step on toes. Other people who um, are insecure and needy encouragement that what they’re doing is needed or wanted. So I encourage every manager to make sure that everyone knows what they are meant to do and what success looks like. And then to connect that to the larger mission. So I’m, you know, doing the travel receipts for private equity company and I’m just punching in numbers and I don’t really feel connected to anything other than what’s coming through my inbox. And yet of I go to a company event and the boss says, let me introduce you to Kara. She’s in our finance department and she really helps our team as we go out and close deals to get clean water in India for people who are part of this new initiative that we’re supporting. Suddenly she feels like she’s a part of something. She knows what she needs to do day to day and she knows how it fits into the larger whole. And so, you know, give people a chance to stand up taller and feel better about themselves. So that’s another kind of, it doesn’t cost a lot, doesn’t take any time, but help people feel proud and um, you know, clear on what they need to do.

Do you have any kiddos? Do you raise, give kids [inaudible]

I did. I have kids. They probably think they’re raising me now, but yep.

How many kids do you have?

I have two. I have a 27 year old daughter and a 13 year old son.

Okay, well I’m sure you’ve seen this then as you’ve are raising your kids or you’ve seen other parents. I’ve seen parents, there’s a lot of listeners out here who are step-parents and there’s a lot of people who are kind of step managers and it’s a weird deal when you’re a step manager cause you know what happens is the boss has hired you because the boss wants someone to manage the team. And the boss says, here’s the deal. I want you to make the shots. You call the shots, you decide what players you want. Let me tell you this buddy, if you need to fire somebody, hire somebody, you have autonomy, I have belief in you. And then you make your first call, you make your first shot. You say, Hey, what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna promote Stephanie cause she’s great. We’re promoting Carl cause he’s great, we’re going to promote.

And then the boss comes down and says, I’m going to veto that. I don’t, I know I gave you autonomy, but I now have changed my mind because it was, it was a bad call, pour form or go, let me go back to the parent analogy. You know, you’re, you’re a new step parent, whatever. And you say, here’s the deal. I’m going to have to have you. You didn’t come home on time so you’re going to be grounded for tonight. And then the real parent shows up and says, Oh, you’re not grounded. What? You know, we’re going to give you ice cream. And it’s like, I think we have to define that role and I think people get it wrong. Could you help us better define our roles and maybe where you see that going wrong? Cause I see a lot of people pointing at the big mission, but they don’t clarify those roles or vice versa. How hope us with that?

Well, I think that there’s, I mean, you have probably heard many of your listeners have, but I’ll remind you about RACI charts, which is not racy as an exotic sexy, but it’s racy as an R a C I, which was your, what somebody, you know, well, what are they responsible for? And also ultimately who is doing the action? Are you responsible? Right? And then who is accountable? So I may be the person who is responsible for checking people out at the ice cream parlor after they’ve gotten their, their cone scooped. But the person who is accountable for the way in which the numbers add up at the end of the night as my manager, but who needs to be communicated to about what I’m doing? So if there’s problems going on, who do I need to tell, which may not be the person who I’m accountable to or maybe that person plus someone else, and then who do I need to, um, inform, uh, get an influencer onboard.

So I think there are different people who need to know. They need to be copied on, um, information. So they need to be informed of what’s going on and I’ll be upset if they’re not, but they don’t necessarily have final accountability for you. So I think it’s really important that people go through what are you responsible for? Who are you accountable to? Who do you need to kind of communicate and who do you really see as an influencer? And that can often help cut down email traffic or communication cause people over communicate about things. So, um, you know, the old one minute manager rule and people on a posted say, this is what I’m meant to do and this is who I’m reporting it to. That’s a great start. The larger the organization start charting it out because there are people whose feelings are gonna get hurt because they don’t feel like they’ve been included and informed, but they don’t necessarily have final accountability. They’re not a decision maker,

you know, uh, Josh here with living water, one of our show sponsors. I’m Josh. Can you share with Melanie what kind of growth you’ve had over the past two years cause you, he’s really a great success story. Oh yeah. That’s awesome. So since we’ve been here with them, Melanie, we’ve, uh, we’re up a little over 300% and I love what you do talking about culture and connecting. How many people are on your team, Josh? So we have 15 right now. So you can ask Melanie Katzman any question you want about leading the team, managing the team, connecting. I mean you have the floor, my friend, but your, your, this is, I would say this is indicative of the average small business owner, a company that’s, you know, start it. Start started up a couple of years back and now it’s 15 employees and growing and kind of that point Melanie, where you, you knew everyone’s name kinda, you almost have to kind of pause.

You’re like, good to see it. They’re all Doug. Good to see you man. Ashley, you know, there’s a little bit of that, a little bit. What question do you have for melanin? Sure. May only, so I’d like to dive more. I love those bullet points of, of context, permission and clarity. So when you go, so I know that I do not have any of this in my company right now. Just being completely transparent. Oh no. The honest. So when you go to look at that and you say, okay, we’re going to begin to clearly define these roles and these positions, do you think it’s more important to sit down as the owner and define them or to go to the people first to get their feel for things and then design around that?

Well, I want to work for you just because you asked the question and because absolutely the conversation I think needs to start with the people who are on the ground because oftentimes they are seeing and doing things that you may not even realize. Um, and some of those things may not be things that you want them to be paying attention to, but once you as the owner to find the information, you’re going to shut down the information you’re going to get. So I would go first to the people on the ground and have that conversation with them. And also to be able to get input from the people who are working alongside of one another because sometimes we don’t see all that we’re doing and it’s helpful to hear how wide our contribution is and other times maybe when we are expanding our, we met too far and that’s useful to get a course correction. So start with the individual, look at what their peers have to say. And then I think of course bringing in the boss’ perspective, but recognizing like the great professor, once you voice your opinion, you’re going to shift the way the conversation goes.

Hmm. Wow, that’s good. Super actionable. That’s fantastic. Thank you. Now Melanie Katzman in your book, you know, connect first you have, you offer these 52 simple ways to ignite the success, the meaning and joy at work 52 [inaudible] it’s a, you know, it’s a reminds me of the of weeks in the year. It’s a large number. It’s a to more than 50 Josh, this just did from our home office. It’s two more than 50 what was your process for writing this book? I mean, did you work on this thing for years? But did you lock yourself into a cave? How’d you get your [inaudible] the process.

But I also will tell you about the 52, cause some people say, Oh, can you just make it like three or four? Like I could. But that wouldn’t really reflect, um, the number of opportunities that we have to get things right. And there’s also, as it turns out, 52 weeks in the year and um, there’s 52 cards in a deck. So if you decide that you want to have your connect first part deck, it’s something that some of the companies I’m working with are doing in their branding that and they’re kind of making, um, kind of a game out of sharing the rules are playing their cards, which is an old fashioned way of actually just connecting with people and playing a game. But also it sets it up for campaign either as a company or on the individual level where every week you can try to do something differently.

So the book is set up so you could do it bills. It goes from the most simple basic activities to ways that you can leverage your platform. Um, so there isn’t a narrative arc, but you can also mix it up and do anything in any order. But the 52 was purposeful to allow for campaign. How did I do it? I’ll tell you, I was on, I used to be a cohost on a radio show, women at work on Sirius XM. And um, during the time that I was on the show, I interviewed somebody who, um, I really enjoy. He seemed to have fun on the interview. And afterwards he wrote me a note and said, that was one of the best interviews I’ve ever had. Can you come and talk to me and my staff at the office? And so I went to his company and his interview question of me was as a psychologist and as a coach who’s had this privileged position of being on the inside in so many ways, what have you learned for leadership?

I left his office. I live in Manhattan. So I jumped on the subway and I started scribbling notes, got home and started pulling out index cards and writing down all the things I keep on teaching people are learning or relearning with my clients. And I ended up with 64 different messages. Wow. And I checked it against my notes that I’ve kept because I keep him incorrect. I’m a pretty detailed note taking kind of person. Check this against folders and notes I had over the years and I went to an event and I met someone who I know who works at Twitter and he said, what have you been up to? And I said, I’ve been up to this crazy documenting of the things that I’ve learned. And I realized that I have 60 plus lessons and he says to me, can’t you make it 52 and I thought, Oh, let me see, could I with any integrity, went back and said, sure, this is, you know, something I can sort it into different ways.

And I split them up into fifth my ideas and to 52 and then I divided them into things that I can do for myself. Things I do for the people in my immediate company and then things I can do for the wider world. And from there kind of a path was forged to set up a series of chapters which would always follow the same pattern. They would be short, they would give you the science behind why it works. If you want to do immediately tell you what to watch out for and then give you the references that you might need if you wanted to delve further into it. So every chapter is short, set up the same way and has case studies from around the world so you can see the generalized stability

and the the the thrive nation knows this. We love it when our guests, we require it pretty much when our for our guests, when you’re going to give a an action item to our listeners are our listeners love to vet these things. That’s what we love. People like you that site it and do the case studies and the research. That way, you know, the listeners can go down that rabbit trail of, of proving that what you’re saying is factually maced and there was three more, um, elements of your book. I wanted to dive in there while respecting your time today. Um, you, you talk about in the book about saying, got it. So if I email you after completing a project, you know, I’m like, okay, here are the, the Photoshop files for the new signage. Okay, here is the proforma updated per your request. Boom. Here’s the signed operating agreement. I sent it to you. Sure you are advocating, I believe replying back. Got it. Why would you advocate saying got it via email?

So it is one of the power moves in the book, right? We got it. And it seems so simple, but people shoot off an entire proposal. They shoot off a thank you. They should have per request for information and if they don’t know that there was sippy, it received it, that they got it, they’re left hanging there. So I send you send me something and you’re really proud of the announcement. You hear nothing back. You don’t know. I’m off buying or celebrating field, but I never told you. Got it. You have no indication that I have received your message. So positive or negative, people need to know that there’s someone on the other end of the communication. So I find people can’t control their time because they don’t know whether somebody’s received the information. Ideally it’s got it. Plus if an action is required, what’s the date by what you’re going to action it.

People will often tell me often the most perfectionistic people that I’m not responding, I’m keeping it as an email in my inbox actually marked as red because I need to get to the right answer. Well that’s fine. You think everyone knows that you’re working on it, but they don’t. People who sent it to you, you’re the bottle that you’re ignoring them and then it sets off a firestorm of emotional reaction to the person on the other side. Yeah. Yeah. I said this, do I matter? One of the why? A much higher priority. They’re doing work for other people, not for me. So whether you are a subordinate superior, if you don’t acknowledge receipt by saying got it. You are potentially opening yourself up to more emotional turmoil in the office than anybody needs to have.

Melanie is a reverse tip. You know, you’re teaching people moves to help people to influence people. And when friends, kind of a reverse pivot. Did you remember high school Melanie? Like did you ever prank people do your mess with people?

Let me now in that.

Well in high school when I used to do this is back old school, you know, before he had caller ID and such, you’d call people and prank them. Well about three, about three years ago I was, you know, 35 and then I’ve changed since in Milton. I’ve changed law since then. Last three years I’m gone like 35 years old and a buddy of mine, I’ve got to pick him up at the airport. And so I texted him, I said, Hey, I’ll, I’ll have you, he was picking me up in Denver and I said, I’ll be there in five minutes getting off the plane. I’ll be at the such and such gate. You know, I appreciate if he picked me up. Why text one number off. Alright, so like about two hours later I get a response, not from him. I I this at this point I’m already in the car and this guy, you know, there’s certain people, Melanie, that freak out if you text the wrong number, you know there’s a certain people like that.

So he texts back, listen here buddy, you’ve got the wrong, it’s a big old full page. You got the wrong number. Don’t ever text this number again, blah blah blah. And so I couldn’t, I couldn’t help myself. Sorry as far as I responded. You know, if you keep talking to me like that, I’m not going to invite you over for Christmas via text. Well then he’s like, or she, whoever it is is getting more incensed. He just more outrageous. Like I don’t even know who you are. I don’t even want to do Christmas with you. And I’m like, that’s why our relationship doesn’t get better. And it just made them go crazy. And so now about every 10 months I try to sneak in a little text cause they won’t go. They won’t block me, but I’ve seen people digitally get like, you know what I mean, where people just get outraged because they, they, you received an email on on Monday and you didn’t respond till Thursday and some people get mad. That tension builds Tuesday, Wednesday like,

and I think that you know, there’s a difference between instantaneously having an answer and instantaneously acknowledging that someone is trying to get your attention. If I wave at you when you don’t wave back, I’m insulted if I get an email and you don’t email that something that is potentially insulting. This is not an answer. This is an acknowledgement and a read receipt is not enough. It’s really a way of saying, I see you, I’m waving back. I’m acknowledging that you and your project and your requests exist and if you can say to somebody, got it really busy right now. We’ll have your answer tomorrow afternoon. That allows me to then plan my day. If I think you’re coming with information I need in the next hour, I’m sitting at my desk waiting for it. So what are the things I say in the book is give people the gift of time. Let people manage their time. Yeah. Let people see time. And when you don’t say God or give people an indication of when a response is coming, you’re robbing people of the independence that everybody craves to be able to manage their workload.

I, I want to share this with the listeners because we have a lot of our listeners who are listening who are famous on the verge of being famous are going to be super successful in a few years already there. And I would just be clear if you’re out there listening, I wanna make sure I’m rightly dividing what a, the good doctor is saying here. Um, if you are a celebrity, I, I’ve actually coached a few celebrities and um, I one guy, he was responding like realtime to like thousands of people all day, every day. He couldn’t get no music done, couldn’t get his art done, just couldn’t do it. It’s very clear that who you’re going to be, where you want to be clear, who you’re going to be responsive to, you know? So if it’s like your direct boss or your PR agent, you know what I mean?

That that, that inner circle, you’ve got to be responsive. But if it’s like your outer circle that somehow found your email address, like you said, you want to show, you acknowledge, you got it. Wait, you only acknowledge you got it. If you want them to know you got it. You know what I’m saying? So if you’re listening out there who has a big following and you don’t want, I just want to make sure we’re getting this because I have a few listeners out there. We’ve had the founder of the Ritz Carlton hotel chain on here, people like that, that have hundreds of thousands of people reaching out to them constantly. I would just be very clear because if you want to build a relationship, the best way to destroy a relationship is to not be responsive. So if you don’t want a relationship, I think the best way to let that blow up is to not respond. Right. I mean it’s just interesting the point

I, and I wasn’t have this conversation with people who are in high demand. There’s a couple of ways to deal with it. One is to just ignore it, but the other is to recognize that perhaps part of your brand is about being responsive and you just shoot the note over to somebody else who is really kind of your special ops person. Like the individual who is there to sort through what these requests are and to true whether or not it’s something that you can do. So I’ve worked with people who are the heads of movie and TV studios and everyone and their brother and sister want to submit a script to them and get a quick read. And there’s an answer that can be very polite, which is a no, but still takes a little bit of time to write. And that’s what your, you know, your special requests team does.

They take that or sometimes you know this very quick way of saying somebody, Nope, can’t help you with your research on generosity at work. They guests were whole long, I get this all the time. Students will write a whole long set of questions and rather than me trying to answer all of them, I’ll say, Hey, here’s a great article. Boom, right? It’s taken me just a couple minutes. I’ve set them on a path. Ideally it’s something they hadn’t seen before. You know who’s talking about this X person at this conference. So sometimes we can be really generous and responsive in less than two minutes and give somebody something that’s really valuable. So if your brand is one of openness, inclusion, generosity, you might still want to answer because you want to be able to maintain that connection or you want to have someone else who can. So I would quickly just say goes to me as the ideal path.

I would say this, I have been rejected by a lot of those very nice, compassionate people, more than almost anyone in the world. I mean when Wolfgang puck, puck agreed to be on the podcast or John Maxwell or some of the bigger names we’ve had on the show. Um, over time it’s become less shocking. But at first, you know, Josh, when you invite, you know, somebody multiple times and their, and their PR person says, not so much in a nice way. It’s always tactful. But then once we hit the top 10 of iTunes a few times and we started moving up now, now it’s less common for the rejections. But I liked that they responded and said, Hey, I appreciate you right now. It’s not a good fit, you know? Well, I mean, when dr Melanie Katzman booked, I mean, not the confetti and the balloons and everything was a little over the top a little. But dr Melanie, thank you for agreeing to be on today’s show, my friend.

Oh my pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been great to meet you. Play and Josh. Thank you.

Yeah. Well, I want to tell, I wanna encourage all the listeners out there. If you have yet to pick up a copy of this incredible book called connect first 52 ways to ignite success, meaning and joy at work, you really owe it to yourself to check it out. And I’ll tell you why. Because we live in a world where so many of us have a lot of connections, a lot of interruptions, a lot of data, smog, a lot of interruptions, but we’re not really connecting. And so dr Melanie Katzman, I’ll give you the final word as to why all of our listeners should check out your book. Connect first.

Um, I think it’s the simplest way for us to find happiness, joy, and success at work. Um, the relationships are there to have, go out, enjoy them, be generous, be happy, and also be profitable. Make an impact.

Awesome. Dr Melanie. Thank you and have a great day. And now without any further ado, three

[inaudible]. Tim the world’s best business workshop, led by America’s number one business coach for free by subscribing on iTunes and leaving us an objective review. Claim your tickets by emailing us proof that you did it and your contact information to info at thrive time, show.com [inaudible].