Navy Seal Thom Shea on Unbreakable: A Navy SEAL’s Way of Life

Show Notes

Former Navy SEAL Thom Shea has served through 3 wars, received both the Silver Star and Bronze Star and he is a best-selling author. Listen in as he shares the Navy Seal mindset and about his new book.

  1. Thrive Nation on today’s show we have the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to interview a highly decorated Navy SEAL with years of combat experience in Afghanistan who has agreed to take time out of schedule to share with us about the Unbreakable resolve and commitment and Navy SEAL’s have when it comes to protecting the rights and freedoms that frankly I believe we often take for granted. Thom Shea welcome onto the Thrivetime Show! How are you sir!?
  2. Thom, you are now known as being a highly decorated Navy Seal and the author of Unbreakable – A Seal’s Way of Life. But, I would like to start at the bottom and at the beginning. What was your childhood like and when did you first decide that you wanted to serve in the military? When did you first determine that you wanted to become a United States Navy SEAL?
    1. I grew up in a military family. I grew up at a time in Southern Indiana where you could carry a gun and hunt as a kid
    2. I had gone to Westpoint and failed. I hit what I called a “sandy bottom”.
    3. I had hit the bottom and I was talking to a Navy SEAL who asked what I wanted to do. I told him I wanted to be a SEAL like him.
  3. Thom Shea, for the listeners out there that are not really familiar with the branches of the United States Military and history of the Navy SEAL. Could you break down what a Navy SEAL is an how it’s different from just being in the Navy?
    1. There are 3 branches of the Military
      1. Army
        1. Rangers
        2. Green Berets
      2. Airforce
      3. Navy
        1. Seal Program
          1. East and West variant
          2. 1,3,5 and 7 are on the West Coast
          3. 2,4,6 and 8 are on the East Coast
          4. There are around 24,000 Green Berets and only 2,000 Navy SEALS
          5. Only 15% make it through the basic training
        2. Seal Team Six
  4. The grueling training to become a Navy SEAL is the stuff of legend. I’d love to have you share about the Navy SEAL training program and why so few people can make it through it?
    1. It took me 5 times to make it through. They don’t let them do that anymore. They are so many people coming to the seals now.
    2. BUDS
      1. Basic Underwater Demolition SEALS
        1. Phase 1
          1. Beat you up and see who comes out at the other end
          2. Hell week
        2. Phase 2
          1. If you don’t drown you graduate
        3. Phase 3
          1. Shoot and blow stuff up
    3. The special operations (SOCOM) part of the military owns the SEALS.
    4. The president of Seal Team Six is the President of the United States
    5. You have to have been a SEAL for 4 years and then take another test and only 50% of those make it into the Seal Team Six
  5. Do you recall a time during training where you wanted to quit and maybe almost did?
    1. This was every day for me.
    2. Everyone who goes through it says that they don’t want to do it on a daily basis. Everyone wants to quit, they just don’t give into it.
    3. The hardest part is on the weekends when you’re by yourself. That’s when most people quit. When they are thinking about things.
  6. What made you want to be a Navy SEAL?
    1. I realized that at Westpoint I was being judged based on my academics. I was a good athlete but not great. I realized that the Navy SEALS are strictly performance based and I loved that.
  7. What did you feel like emotionally once you made it through the program and actually became a Navy SEAL?
    1. It was a relief. Everyone wants to go into deployment. It is so stressful in training because you can never win there. That is why combat is so clear because there is a winner and a loser.
  8. What was going through your mind when you first heard that you were being deployed to Afghanistan?
    1. It was a relief for me because it was simply a break from training.
  9. I want to be super respectful about your combat experience, so feel free to go into as much or as little detail as you want here…how do you and other members of the military get over the paralyzing fear that you must be experiencing when you are getting shot at and move forward to kill and destroy the enemy?
  10. In your book you wrote, “To hell with post-traumatic stress; pre-traumatic stress is far worse.” Can you share what you mean by this?
    1. The not knowing what is going to happen is the worst
    2. Asking:
      1. What if?
      2. Will I be good enough?
      3. Will I survive?
    3. Mentally you’re already in combat but you’re with your family at home.
    4. People who have Post-Traumatic Stress only have it because they can’t communicate it to the people you are around.
  11. When you found out that you were being deployed again in 2009, what kind of toll did this take on you and your wife Stacy and how did you get through it?
  12. Thom Shea, I read in your book, that your wife Stacy told you, “Thom I need you to come back to us. Do not fear dying. Fear makes you weak.” What were you thinking when she said this?
    1. We were fighting the Taliban when they fired an RPG at us. It was 38 to 6 and things were not looking good. I was thrown into a room and couldn’t move. I reflected on what my wife told me, got up and we killed 38 Taliban that day.
    2. During stressful situations, the pros don’t talk about the situation. In the middle of firefights, they will be talking about everything else otherwise they will be unbelievably overwhelmed.
  13. In your book, you write about being, “Seated on a C-5 transport aircraft with the men of SEAL Team Seven, Task Unit Trident and Bravo Platoon flying to another godforsaken country.” I would like for you to explain how big a C-5 transport aircraft is, how many soldiers are on the plane with you and just overall mood of men heading into harm’s way?
    1. The waiting game is what is brutal because you know you have to get there and all of the delays is what really got to us.
    2. Over time you start thinking about all of the bad things and you just want to get out and do something when you can’t. You have to sit there and wait.
    3. These C-5 transport aircrafts could fit a tank. We had 60 men and 20 pallets of our gear.
  14. What went through your mind the first time you actually got into combat.
    1. It was in Iraq in 2007
    2. I grew up hunting and in my brain killing is not what it is in other people’s brain
    3. It is a waiting game. It is a relief to be able to do what you are supposed to do.
    4. Things slow down. The world seems to be in slow motion while I am moving quickly.
  15. My understanding is that because you were assigned to fight in an epic battle, your team was assigned the best dog handler as well as the highest-ranking explosive ordnance disposal warrant officer expert in the navy…that job requires incredible bravery…cutting wires and herding dogs while in the middle of gunfight…what is the make and model of this type of person?
    1. They are the calmest people in the world
    2. They never talk about it (what you are doing)
  16. What are some things you saw overthere that gave you a reason to fight?
    1. Their culture is so old and far removed from what we live in on a daily basis.
    2. They don’t have a house or even furniture.
    3. We didn’t see horrible things, we were the horrible things and we were removing the horrible people.
  17. Thom, what kind of damage can 30 SEALS do against terrorist groups like the Taliban if you are given the full latitude to get it done?
    1. It is a 10 multiplier
    2. 300
  18. What happened when you and your team encountered 38 Taliban?
    1. We had all let our guard down at the same time
    2. From 600 feet away bullets started flying at us and following those bullets was an RPG
    3. We fire everything we have until we ran out of ammo
    4. A bomber came and began bombing the enemy following our instructions
  19. What is the Silver Star?
    1. When you intentionally risk your life for a mission.
  20. What is your view on Masculinity?
    1. There are two types of people. Women and Men.
    2. Men have the gift of masculinity
      1. Masculinity means that you do what you say you will do.
      2. Mean is mean, not masculine.
      3. If they say they’re going to do something. Get out of the way.
    3. Women have the gift of feminism
    4. There is nothing toxic about being a man.
  21. How do you emotionally process when you remove the bad guys and lose the good guys?
    1. That decision isn’t my choice. Someone has already made the choice as to who goes and who lives.
    2. I make the choice of going and that is all I do.
    3. I have never lost a man from my platoon but I have been a part of many ceremonies.
    4. We don’t retaliate. When you retaliate, your decision making is terrible.
  22. How and when did you first encounter the enemy and what is that experience like?
  23. Thom Shea, my understanding is that your book Unbreakable – A Navy SEAL’s Way of Life was originally supposed to be a memoir for his kids in the event that he did not survive his deployment. Why did you decide to turn this memoir into a book a publish it?
  24. Thom, my understanding is that you have taught 330 basic SEAL students, 112 sniper students…what are some of the principles that you taught that readers of your book can expect find inside of your book?
  25. Thom, most of the super successful people that we have interviewed have shared that they often talk to themselves…what role if any did internal dialogue play in your career as a SEAL?
  26. Thom, since returning from your deployments, I know that you are still a very proactive and intentional person…how do you typically spend the first four hours of your day and what time do you wake up every day?
  27. Thom Shea, where are you physically located when you are planning out your day?
  28. Thom, from your perspective…what dysfunctional habits do most people have that keep them from success?
  29. Thom Shea, you come across as a very well-read person, what are 1 or 2 books that you would recommend that all of our listeners should read?
  30. What do the first four hours of your day look like?
    1. I wake up at 5:00 am
    2. I meditate
    3. I check in with my family
    4. I work out for two hours every morning
      1. I do difficult things
      2. I find things I can’t do and do it until I can figure it out.
      3. I run ULTRA-MARATHONS which are 50 – 100 miles long.
  31. If you could go back to that 23-year-old man, what would you tell yourself?
    1. Do it earlier. Do it when you’re 18. Don’t wait and let it sit in your brain. Go for it.
      1. I wanted to be a seal and my dad wanted me to go to college which I failed.

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Audio Transcription

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We have the once in a lifetime opportunity to interview a highly decorated navy seal with years of combat experience in Afghanistan who has agreed to take the time out of his schedule to share with us about the unbreakable resolve and commitment the navy seals have when it comes to protecting the rights and freedoms that as Americans, we enjoy it. During today’s interview, Thom Shea explains to us what was going through his mind when he first came in contact with the enemy in common. He explains to us why pre traumatic syndrome is much worse than post traumatic syndrome because you don’t know if you’re going to make it to see another day he shares with us how he was able to emotionally process losing the good guys and the people on his team while trying to eliminate the enemy. He shares with us about the process of becoming a navy seal and why so few people can make it through the navy seal training. All this and more on our exclusive interview with Thom Shea, retired navy seal, the bestselling author of unbreakable, a navy seals way of life.

On today’s show we have an incredible guest and see, I am so, so honored to have this guy on the show. He is what we would call a navy seal, a big deal, which stands for sea air and land. These guys are the elite of the lead. He’s a highly decorated navy seal with years of combat experience who’s agreed to take time out of his schedule to share with us about what it’s like to be a navy seal, that unbreakable, resolve that they all have a a Thom shea. I am just honored to have you on the show. How are you sir? Thanks for having me on. And I love that intro. That’s a, that’s unique. Now, Thom, um, I’m, uh, I am, uh, just so fascinated with your, your, your career and I’d like to just start off at the bottom or, or at the beginning before you became a seal. What was your childhood like and, and when did you first decide, when did you, when did you first decide that you wanted to serve in the military? Uh, and starting at the bottom is probably appropriate. Uh,

I grew up in a military family. My Dad was a West Point Grad and I grew up around a lot of combat vets from World War Two and Vietnam. And I grew up at a time in southern Indiana where you could carry a gun when you were a kid. And I ran a trap line when I was 10 and I grew up outside. So, uh, not that I was actually thinking about seals at that point, but I grew up kind of hard. And, uh, the next step when I grew up till later age was to take it to the next level.

When did you get division that you could actually be or would want to be a navy seal? Because Ozzy, I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but being a part part of the navy seals program is tough. Yeah. Thank. Yeah. So when did you decide that you wanted to do that?

Well, I, I came about it like, like you said, from the bottom. I had gone to west point for three years and failed out after my junior year and I’d hit, I, you know, it took me 20 years to talk about that openly. But, uh, I’d hit what I call a sandy bottom. I, and, and I went back home and, and one of my mentors at the time who was a combat vet from World War Two who was a seal in World War II before it was called a seal. He said, now that you have nothing to lose, what would you like to do? And I said, Pat, I’ve always wanted to be a seal like you were. And he said, you know, what I recommend is you pursue that until it either falls apart or you make it. He goes, nothing worse. Having regrets in life. So at age 20, I said to myself, I’m going to go be a seal.

For the listeners out there that aren’t familiar with the branches of the military, um, can you explain to us briefly how the branches of the military aren’t organized and the, and the history of the seal program. I’m not trying to paint you into a corner and asking for specific dates, but just for the listeners out there, we have a lot of business owners out there who, uh, salute the flag and appreciate what you do, but they’re not really familiar with how the branches of the military are organized or just the history of the seal program.

There are really three branches of the military, the army, the air force, and the navy. The navy has under it the Marine Corps and the Coast Guard. The coast guard I think is separated now and it works for the homeland security, but that being the case, three major branches, one offshoot being the Marine Corps. And each of those branches have specialties. Air Force has several special programs and the army has, you know, the rangers and the Green Baret and Delta force and the seals have, or the navy has the seal program and seal team six.

So talk to me about seal team six. How many teams do you have any uh, a seal program. Okay.

The seals a, they have an east and west to the, to the group if you will. Uh, the odd number she’ll teams one, three, five and seven are on the west coast. Two, four, eight and 10 are on the east coast and seal team six is also on the east coast. And it’s a special program within the seal teams

for every person that is in the military. How many seals do you have? Is it like a one in 1000 shot, isn’t it?

Oh my gosh. So yeah, there right now. So that as a comparison for everybody that’s listening, there are around 24,000 Greenbrae and there’s only 2000 seals, 2000 seals. And does, those are active duty right now as we speak, you know, give or take a hundred. But the program is so difficult to get through that since inception to now only 15% make it through the basic training.

Now I’ve, I’ve tried to go online and really nerd out this past month here since you agreed to be on the, on the, on the show. I’m watching these documentaries, you know, the untold secrets of the navy seals and they have to a and e special on the seals and z. I get like nervous, scared, worn out. I almost want to quit just watching it. I’m like, ah, this is, oh, I got, I can’t handle it. Yeah, I’m nauseous. Oh, I’ll go had a question to ask you, but I’m almost to secure to ask him now. I want to ask you is when you are going through this program, it’s so grueling, it’s a legendary, could you share with us an overview of the navy seal training program and maybe what’s the hardest part of that program?

Well, it took me five times to make it through. Wow. And uh, they don’t let people do that anymore. Not that it damages them there. There were at the time what I was going through, they couldn’t get enough seals. Now there are so many people trying to get in. It changed it. So the seal program, the buds, basic underwater demolition seal, that’s the basic pipeline or the first part of the program, it lasts about six months and there are three phases to it. The first phase, which is the notorious phase is just we want to beat you up and see who comes out the other end. And that culminates with a a week called Hell Week and I’m sure you guys want to hear about that. We do. And then the and then die phases. The second phase they, they teach you how to drown and a, if you don’t drown then you graduate. And then third phase is teach you how to shoot and navigate and blow stuff up and, and then you graduate basic training and you go into another five month program and then you report to your seal team and then you go through another 18 month program before you can deploy.

Thom Shea, what’s fresh about seal team six. Why? Why are they you, when you were

going through the seal teams, you are like, there are a special kind of subgroup. What, what do they do that the others don’t door? Can you tell us?

Yeah. Uh, it’s uh, so the, the Ne, the Navy owns well not really showed this special operations, you know, part of the military own the seal on the seals and uh, they work for what they call Socom. So all the seal teams worked for so calm and then, uh, seal team six and Delta force, which is a different name now. I can’t remember what it is. Cag, I think it is, uh, they work solely for the president. They’re called a national asset and it’s a, it’s a more of a chain of command issue. It’s like who the president of the company is. Yeah. And the president of seal team six is the president and they are tasked by the president. And uh, to get into that program you had to have been a seal for four years and then you go through another highly high attrition rate selection course to see if they want you and there. And at the team and they, I think they still have about a 50% fail rate there.

Hmm. Hmm. So if I took a dozen green berets, a dozen rangers doesn’t Delta Force doesn’t seals a dozen. I think I covered them all. A lot of doesn’t. So we did like a west side story where it’s like, you know, I mean everybody, it’s like just a brawl. Who’s going to win that brawl?

I don’t know if it’s a matter of fighting. They never teach you how to fight. They teach you how to use all the resources at your disposal so you don’t have to actually get into a fight. He’s blow above. It’s like they just blow up. Yeah. I don’t want to fight somebody else. Shoot him from a mile away and be really happy the answer that question. Okay. Now you’re doing your training program. Do you recall a time in the seal training program where you thought to yourself, I want to quit. I’m going through this program and I want it. Where was the, where was the low point? The part we thought, this is God, I, I’m going to tap out. But then you just, you didn’t do it, but it was there. What was the absolute worst part? You know, everybody that goes through it, even the ones that quit say they, they, they don’t really want to do it on a daily basis.

It’s, it’s that tough and uh, and it gets increasingly harder and harder. And then, you know, so you actually want to quit on a daily basis. You just don’t give into it or are you quit? Uh, the lowest time doesn’t actually come from training. It comes on the weekends when you, you’re licking your wounds and you’re thinking about, oh, I don’t know if I want to do another week or month or year of this crap. And the low times always come when there’s not, you know, somebody in your face when you have to live with your own demons so to speak. And that’s when most people quit is on the weekend. Very, people quit when things are hard. It’s only when they have time to think about it.

Why, why did you want to be a seal so much? I mean, because you guys are defending us. I’ve never met you before. Ah, Z and I, you know, we, between the two of us, we have eight kids, great families. Uh, we’re safe because of your sacrifices. What made you want to do that?

It represented to me the only thing left where it was strictly performance based. If you can do the work, that’s how you’re judged. You’re not judged on if you look pretty or your background or you know, black or white or green. And at the time, you know, I had just failed out of west point and I’m like, God, I, I’m never going to recover. What, what, what’s available. And I thought, you know, I could, I was a good athlete. I was thinking about the Olympics and then I like, I don’t want to do that. And that was a good shooter and you know, to get into a shooting program costs tons of money and I’m like, ah, what’s left? And I, I’m good at outside and as long as I can do the work, the program will keep embracing you. And I thought, well I’ll give that a try. And that was one of the big reasons was it was strictly performance

oriented. So you are our training for all this time and then you get the call that you’re going to be deployed. Um, how do you, what does, what does it feel like emotionally once you’ve, you know, made it through the program and then you find out you’re being deployed. What do you, do you recall that emotion of that moment knowing that you’re going to actually have to use all these skills you’ve been training for?

Yeah. The, it’s interesting how you asked the question. The answer may not be what will satisfy you. It’s actually a relief. Uh, and everybody in the program, the seals want to go on deployment and the training is so hard. You’re like, God, give me a break. I’d rather go into combat where everything is very clear and combat is very clear. It’s not stressful. It’s the only time you can win. And in training, they never let you win. So to be called into, to actually use the skills and the tools that you’ve been trained to use is a relief. And I know that answer is not what you expect, but that’s the truth about most people who like combat.

So you and I want to be super respectful, Z, you know, obviously when you and I have even talked about playing paint ball or dodge while I get scared because these guys are seeing live comment, I’m serious you guys. He’s like, hey, why don’t we go as downhill skiing? I’m like, I don’t know. I take that a little bit worried about, I don’t know. Oh, safety first, you know. Um, so I’m wearing a helmet in the studio right now just for safety precautions and you guys put your life in harm’s way and on a daily basis. So if I ask anything here that it’s kind of over the line, just hang up on me and I’ll get that subtle clue. So you’re, you get a deployed and you’re flying over to Afghanistan. I believe you’re seated in a c five transport aircraft, according to your book seal team, seven task unit, Trident in Bravo platoon, you’re flying to another, as you put in the book, God forsaken country. Could you explain to us the mindset of what the men in the plane are thinking or what conversations you’re having as you were flying to another God forsaken country to put your life at risk, to protect the freedoms of people you’ve never met.

That’s the hardest part. Uh, you know, you would thank their steely eyed resolve. It’s not, it’s the waiting game that is brutal because you know, you’re, you’re, you know, you’re, you got to get there and the time delays to get there. And it took us a week to get there because that may acclaimed fell apart every time we landed. And uh, so what becomes difficult to even communicate is you begin to lose resolve. You’re like, God, what am I doing? This is the right thing. Or my kid’s going to be okay. And I have three kids and a wife. And so you’re, you’re dwelling on all the bad things and you just want to get going. It’s, it’s like right before the super bowl like, dude, let’s just get out and throw the ball. We got to do something and, but you’re not allowed to. You’re just sitting there and it’s a, it’s a, to me it’s the most difficult time of the deployment is the waiting game of trying to get in theater.

How big are these, Cif, just to give our listeners some perspective, how big is a c five transport and how many people are on the plan?

Oh, there boy, they’re big. You can put a uh, offshore racing boat or you can put a tank in it. And so, uh, at that point I think we had 60 men and 20 pallets of all our combat gear on the plane and their seats on the side. And then when it takes off, unlike civilian aircraft, you can get up and walk around and guys are stringing up hammocks on top of the pallets and just laying there waiting. Yeah.

What went through your mind the first, I mean, you guys land, you get set up, you did, you get your first mission and you’re out. And, um, when was the first time you squeezed off a round or what, what did you think the first time you actually got into combat?

That wasn’t my first a in Afghanistan. It was three days. We were three days on the ground, but that wasn’t my first combat, but three days on the ground and we’re shooting at the Taliban.

Yeah. So your first time, which, uh, w w can you tell us where that was your first time for combat was? Uh, I would,

it was in Iraq, uh, two years prior to that. In 2007.

What did that feel like? What, what went through your mind? Give me funding to contract for it. Yeah. Yeah. What did

that feel like? Well, you know, I have to preface that. So I, I grew up hunting and I had in my brain, killing is not what it is and other people’s brains. So, uh, if you’re a hunter, you know, the process of hunting is a lot of waiting. And patience and then all of a sudden you get one shot. And in combat it’s the waiting game and it’s not as scary. It’s actually a low of, I said earlier, it’s a relief to actually to be doing what you’ve been trained to do. The scaredness I had not been, not been a time in combat that I could say I was scared to think slow down or speed up, putting in rear, starting to squeeze that very slow. It slows down for me crippling slow. Like my body’s at a hundred miles an hour and my brain is processing things very rapidly and it seems to be going in slow motion and maybe that’s why people survive combat. But to me everything moves are moving really fast and the world is moving slow. Hmm.

Your uh, uh, you wrote in your book that your wife, uh, Stacy said to you, she said, Thom, I need you to come back to us. Do not fear dying. Fear makes you weak. What?

Yeah, I think the most important thing that I had experienced was her saying that. And it culminated at month three and Afghanistan where we had a, we were overrun by the Taliban and a meaning there were 38 of them and six of us. And, uh, we got our [inaudible] no other way to say that. And it was overwhelming. And I had been, uh, not blown up, but an RPG hit and blew me inside of this room and I was laying there on the ground and I was like, I’m dead. And I couldn’t move. And the only thing that popped me out of that was when my, why, I was just reflecting on a lot of things. And I remember my wife saying, right before I went on deployment, don’t fear dying. It makes you weak and fight. And I stood up and a half a second, I’m like, well, I can fight. And I rallied as best I could. And culminated in us, uh, uh, killing 38 Taliban. Wow.

When you were over there, when you’re, can you just explain the kind of conversations that you’re having with the guys when you’re killing time? I’ve had friends over there that have served uh, in an army now, not in the seals who’ve told me that there’s sort of this hurry up and wait. And he was telling me, you know, we’re, we’re like throwing footballs for days sometimes cause there’s nothing going on. And then he said and all of a sudden you’ll hear something or somebody, you know, all of a sudden the whole dynamic will change and immediately recalled into action. And he said that’s kind of how like we just, that was our, could you explain what kind of conversations were you guys having when you’re over there with your, with your, the ones that you can share on a podcast?

Yeah. Well the seals are a unique breed. They are, you know, you got to remember by that time it was 20 years of training and the platoon I was with, I had been with for four years, most of them. And you know, during stressful situations, you know, pros don’t talk about the situation and it’s really hard to explain. And our conversations would be about, you know, girls and hey, throw me a can of Copenhagen and God, this water tastes like ish in the middle of firefights because it, you know, it’s so stressful. You cannot dwell on, oh my God, there’s 38 of them. But you, you just, you’ve, you’ve mentally kind of think of other things and it doesn’t make sense to people, but that’s how I look back and explain it. And I fought it when I was a new seal. I’m like, why?

Why is everybody not talking about what’s going on? And one of the veterans seals is like, Eh, you don’t talk about that stuff. Just talk about fun things. Do you guys keep track of, did you guys keep track as it, is it a competitive thing where you keep track of Kilz versus the enemy? Do you keep track of that? And it’s something, man, this is such a contentious situation. Uh, I, I’m a tracker. I keep track of everything. Okay. And I did, and my buddy did. My Buddy said that he definitely did. My tenant didn’t like it and I said, hey, these guys are meat eaters. They want to know how many shots and who got what. And so we had a platoon tally that we had much to the dismay of our officers.

What were the atrocities that you saw over there where you say, we’re, I’m glad we fought against that because if you Americans saw that, you would definitely want us to fight for that. You know what something we’re used again, you know, you, you see the news, you watch Fox, you see CNN, z, you know, you know, you see all these news news publications is his media media and everyone has their own bias. We’ve never been over there. I mean, what are some things that you saw Thom? And he said, you know, that is why we were over that. That’s why we were fighting.

I don’t know if it answers, that’s why we are fighting, but, uh, Eh, you know, I always, I try to explain it this way. In the movie wizard of Oz when Dorothy had to tap her heels together and say, you know, wish I was home or whatever, she said, match and clicking your heels to go there and say, Hey, I wish, I wonder what would it be like 3000 years ago and wacky end up in Afghanistan. It’s that old. So their culture is so far removed from what you experience on a daily basis, you’re just, I don’t understand what are they doing? And it makes sense to them but doesn’t, it does not make sense. And, and the mind of an American who has a house, they don’t have furniture, which was a complete frustration. Everybody like, oh dude, where’s the chairs? Oh, we’ve got to sit on the floor.

They sit on the floor. And uh, the, the atrocities are the lifestyles that they lead on a daily basis. Like we didn’t see atrocities. We were the atrocious people there. We went in and we don’t knock and, and are happy, you know, people. So we went in there and the R W we had to go in there and we’re dictated to kill Taliban. And that’s what we did. Now you’re in your book, you wrote to hell with posttraumatic stress. Pre traumatic stress is far worse. Uh, I’d really, really would love to have you break down, break that down. Cause that, that right there is a knowledge bomb for some of our listeners out there that is powerful. What do you mean by, yeah. Uh, it’s the not knowing what’s going to happen and most athletes stress out before the game or before the tournament or whatever they’re in, you know, most, you know, and you guys say you’ve started up a lot of businesses.

The not knowing is the tough part. Are we going to be good enough? Somebody’s going to die. What am I going to do? Am I going to be the right mindset? Was I enough? Did I, you know, that not knowing is horrible. And then when you’re back predeployment trying to, you know, think about all these things and, and, and be a family man and prepare yourself. It’s 10 times more stressful. And it’s, it’s tough on the family because you’ve already checked out and mentally you’re already in combat, but your home. And, uh, seals don’t normally have posttraumatic stress after the situation because they’re constantly in training and combats just to relief. And, you know, the three or 4% that have it, they get it when they cannot relay their topic or their, their mindset to the people that they’re with. But in predeployment you’re sitting there trying to go, oh my gosh, why am I sitting here watching my kid, you know, spill stuff.

I should be over in combat. And it causes a lot of stress. I don’t know if I impact that well, but no, no, I just, I’m just endlessly curious about, about this in your book, um, you talked about you have this a dog handler guy, the best dog handler out there. This guy, his job is to, uh, he’s like the highest ranking Explosive Ordinance Disposal Warrant Officer expert in the navy and his job, he, this guy’s job is to, can you just, what with this guy’s job is to, uh, is to do for you guys? Well, the, uh, private didn’t make a clear point in the book, but there, those two separate people. We had a really, really experienced dog handler and his job was to use his dog to sniff out bombs or drugs or attack with the dog. And our explosive ordinance guy was a warrant officer and he’d had already been in 20 years and he’s forgotten more about bombs than I even know. And uh, and their job, I still don’t like their job. The only job in the world I wouldn’t want to do is go in and deal with explosives because when something goes wrong, it’s wrong. Big Style. And uh, but he was the calmest guy in the world and he also never talked about what he was doing, which is a sign of professionalism in the, in the community is you don’t

talk about it. Um, I, I’m not asking for specific number. It’s, I’m sure it’s classified, but I just want to ask, what kind of damage can 30 seals do against terrorists or people that you are attacking in Afghanistan? I mean, 30 guys. What kind of damage could you could do? Yeah. What, what could it damage? Could 30 seals too.

Yeah. Uh, it’s a, it’s actually a number that’s written down. It’s a 10 multiplier 30 have to, if you use 30 you 10 times set, and that’s who you should be able to go up against. So 30 to 300.

So the 638, that was the only, they could have had another 22 people there. I mean, they use really kind of, I’m surprised you were overwhelmed. You should be kind of an almost underwhelmed. You’re like, what did they not, we’re not

the that, that mission. I actually, two of US got a silver star for that mission. Uh, it was, it wasn’t a surprise. It alarming about it is that we ran out of food, water and Ammo.

Oh Man. So was it a surprise attack or give me the set up on that because that’s a fascinating story.

Yeah. We went in the night before four mile hike into the mountains were in a firefight, the whole four miles. It took us seven hours to move four miles. Wow. And then we hit the main target area and you know, another firefight and suse, we hold up that whole day. Sporadic fire throughout the day. And then our commander says, hey, we’re going to pick you up two hours after dark. So that period of time, which I hate that when you’re, when you know something is about ready to end, we literally all dropped our guard all at the same time. And uh, I had taken my body armor off and I was, my back was up against the wall. I was sitting there getting ready to go and just taking a break and I look up at hilltop bus 600 yards away and it looks like red bees flying at me and everything slows down.

I duck out of the way and all the bullets hit right where I was just leaning up against wall. Wow. And I’m rolling out into the courtyard and uh, the bullets are following me and I look up at a, at a window and uh, I jumped into the window and the RPG falls me into the room and blows up. I didn’t know that and followed me and I just jumped into the air and I ended up jumping 12 foot through the air and hit the wall. And laying on the ground, whether I’ve got knocked out, I don’t think I did, but I’m just laying there watching everything and bullets are hitting in the room. And a bullet is rotating right in front of my face on the ground. And I remember going, Oh God, I’m dead and my body was going yet, you’re just going to sit here and I couldn’t rally.

And then my wife and my mind said, don’t fear dying, stand up. And uh, I rallied and uh, ended up shooting the guy on the hilltop that had me pinned down and after a 45 minute firefight and Sue’s, we run out of Ammo, we shot 38 mortar rounds and through all our grenades over the wall and all the 40 millimeter we had. And, and it was, that was the end. And we ran out of everything and a B one bomber checks on and, and we, or we orient him to drop his bombs everywhere around us. And so he pursues that order and bombs are going off, blown up everything and kind of various and rubble, so to speak. And we all survived. And, and it was, it looked like the dark side of the moon when we kind of all rallied and got our composure and uh, but then our boss said, hey, you’re gonna have to stay at their another day. That next day was brutal because we’d all kind of given up and up. But that was, that was decided to give us Silver Star for not dying.

I was going to ask you, what does it Silver Star represented? I mean, what do you, obviously, you know, you kill a bunch of Taliban, you get a silver star and you don’t die, but what does it really represent? What’s the or I Google it probably. Well, it’s a, the third highest, yeah.

Valor award where you have reached your life, uh, intentionally rest of your life to pursue an objective. And uh, I got hit three times in the body armor and two bullets went through my crotch and my aunts and my crotch is tight. I don’t know. I don’t know how the hell they’re like, whoa. That was close. And, uh, and uh, but yeah, and, and you, you’re obviously doing not written up. Then two years later I ended up getting it, but uh, I look back and go that it was just over. Everything had just ended and we decided to see if the bombers could do the job. And thank God they did. Thom, I’m going to tread into an area

where a, this is not a political show, but I, I do a 100% agree with you on something that I’ve seen you tweet about recently. You’re talking about masculinity and there’s nothing toxic about masculinity. I would love to get your take on this because I do 100% agree with you. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Wow. What a fun question. I, there are two types of people in the world, women and men. What? That’s it. Okay, Kiki. Okay. There are toxic people, no doubt about it. There are toxic women and there are toxic men. True. But being masculine is the gift of being a man. Being Feminine is the gift of being a woman. And if you met my wife, you know that that’s a great gift and she’s rough. It’s not that, you know, she dainty. Uh, and I, you know, I can’t fathom the, the political discourse, the is considering the white male to be bad just because he’s a white male. It nuts in my mind and I don’t play in the political space well, but, uh, I don’t see anything toxic about being a man.

Well, I just wanted to say, ah, I just was going through your, your Twitter feed and post. I 100% agree with you and I think that, uh, I dunno, I, I’ve met a lot of guys who served in the military and z. You know, I am not one of them, but everyone that I’ve met who has served the military honorably like yourself, um, every man I’ve met, that man z, that’s a man’s man. That’s the kind of guy where you go. That’s why we’re free right now. Yes. Uh, you know, I don’t know that you’d want to have a nods, man, man. You know, serving the military, saying I, I’m a little bit of raid right now. I’m going to go hide. Can we work it out? I don’t know if you want the king of rhetoric over there debating with the Taliban going, well guys, we can all agree on something, can’t we? I mean maybe you are just disenfranchised.

It just doesn’t work well. Is that, is that the discourse that you know, masculine means that you do what you said you would do.

Oh, okay. Well that’s it. Now it’s Bob Knowledge bomb right there. You said masculine means that you said that you would, you, you do what you say you would do. Hmm.

Were there for one purpose because the politicians couldn’t work it out and then we go in and do what we do and I don’t, I don’t even call that masculine. I think mad men or masculine and women are feminine. It’s also a hormonal thing and a body structure thing, but I don’t think masculine meets are you? May is the confusion that masculine is being you know, mean mean is mean mean you know, I don’t know many seals that are mean. I don’t, I can’t say I can put in one hand the number of mean spirited seals. Right. But they’re tough. And if they say they’re going to do something, I just would just get out of the way

cause they’re going to find a way. I want to ask you this question about, uh, your, your worldview on this as it relates to taking a life of the enemy and losing one of your own. How do you process that? How do you, when you’re over there and you kill the bad guys and, uh, you lose a good guy, how do you emotionally process that?

That decision was made before I went over there. I don’t make that decision on the spot moment of fishes. Is this right to do? I, I personally make it four. I go over there. My job is to take it to the enemy and uh, so I, I’m very unemotional about that. I don’t know if that’s right. I’m sure some psychologists is going to call me up after this and want to make money from me. But uh, I, and I hunted so much. I look at it the same. I’ve already made the decision prior to going. But you know, losing somebody is rough. I think it’s the most emotion. I’ve never lost anybody in my platoons by the grace of God or whoever, uh, none of my guys even got injured over there, which is very rare. And uh, but we had to do many ramp ceremonies if all the dot. Dead Marines and army guys like five a week for six months. Wow. And that takes an emotional toll when you lose one of your own sad emotional toll, you don’t take it back as an in retaliate. I’ve never seen that happen. I’ve never seen a retaliation happen. It’s just, you know, that shit happens and you don’t retaliate because your decision factor or your decision making ability when you’re retaliating is very bad. So, and that is broken from you in the seal program. They don’t ever let you make retaliatory decisions as a leader,

your, your schedule as a seal, you know, the first four hours of your day as a seal versus the first four hours of your day. Now, what did the first four hours of your day look like when you were a seal and what you don’t like? What, what, what time did you wake up? What did that look like? And then now that you are, I’m no longer an active duty seal, uh, what is your schedule look like now? During those first four hours?

I remains unchanged. Uh, I think it was an effective way to live. I wake up around five and I, uh, do a little, you know, meditation or centering myself and then I check in with my family. In the seal teams, you do that, but you also check in with your team. If when you arrive at the team, everybody checks in with each other and then, then you work out and you work out for two hours and every morning that you’re a seal. And I still do that. There it is. So my first four hours are, you know, meditate, check in with the team and the family and then get physical.

Let’s get physical is a co that’s not physical. All right. Oh, do you, where do you do like a Zoomba? What do you do? Zoom was a hot yoga

difficult things because I think it’s, it’s relevant. Uh, I got into ultra marathon running because I couldn’t figure out how to do it, so I keep doing it because I still can’t solve.

Oh, my timber ultra marathon running. Is this like sick? What? Marathons? I remodels. What is this thing? Yeah, 50 or a hundred miles. What? What, what? Oh, oh, you going to make a point in heaven for those and you get to mega points in here to make a voice per per ultra marathon. Two the points and those can be redeemable for holy cow. And apparently you just, you just run apparently. I think you just, you just, I can’t even that right there. That blows my mind. You kept a hard time to get up the stairs. That’s a win of the week. One of the year when you have the final question. Final question. You can, you can, you could paint Thom Shea in any corner. You want people fight you out of it. Corner. Thom, when my favorite questions to ask, it’s of my goto question goat. How old are you right now? 50. And you started the program to be the seals at what age? 20

I think. 23 yeah. 23.

If you could go back to that, a 22, 23 year old young man, you could turn back time, you could do it and you’re going to sit down with them today. Right now, you could magically be transported back. What would you, what would you tell yourself?

Uh, do it earlier. Do it when you were 18. Oh, go for the seals. When you’re ready. Don’t put off anything that sits in your brain like that did for all those years. Even if you never accomplish it, do it. Go for it. Do it earlier.

Go for it. Cause the tree, the tree was then you for a long time. Right?

Uh, it was nagging in my crawl for, you know, from 18 I wanted to be a seal and not go to westpoint. Dad said no and then I filled out of west point.

I got it. Go do it now. Yeah. You got to. So now is at one and done. Cause you said you did five times or your fifth time was that was the time you got through the program and you said it’s changed now, so is it one and done if don’t you only get one

shot or do they they give you a cup, you get to, you get to roll back. Once dotes Hispanic listeners, that’s dose, dose, dose, dose hazing. Well Thom, thank you so much for being on today’s show. I appreciate you so much for taking time and you have this great book, unbreakable and Andrew for accountability. We always like to buy the show while we’re interviewing the guy, the book buy the book coming while we’re on the show. It was what it, you know he has an a by the book while we’re on the show everyone to buy the show while we’re on the book. No, no. That’s the reverse. That doesn’t even make second to by the book while we’re on the show. So we’re going to buy the book. I am. We get up, thumbs up. We just purchased, I checked out the an ebook version so I don’t have to leave an objective review and I want to just talk about how just what a privilege it was to interview you.

And again, just thank you so much for being here. Thank you guys for your time and uh, I’m glad that you’re successful. That’s what it was all four. Thanks Thom. We really appreciate that thrivers out there. If you are, if you are a z w I wouldn’t say if you’re, if you’re, I wouldn’t go as far as to say if you’re not a bad person, you should buy Thom’s book. But I wouldn’t say, oh, the good people, the only real purchase unbreakable, a navy seals wavelength. If you’ve killed some Taliban, you’re off the hook. Yeah. If you’re out to the hotel, don’t need that book threshold. If you’ve killed the Taliban’s in your life, which most of our listeners, they take your word for it, we may not be able to verify. It’s easy. Yeah. But if you haven’t killed any Taliban, they benefited from the killing of the Taliban. Thank you. You have you. And they got to buy it now because what happens is it’s a procrastination thing. People don’t do it now. They’re not going to do it. Just go on. It’s easy to do it. Just hit the link. Click goodness. 12 seconds. Thom Shea, thank you so much. Hopefully you appreciate our high pressure sales techniques. Thanks Jesse. I appreciate it. All right, take care, buddy. Take care. Well done.

Edison once said, vision without execution is hallucination. So I would ask you today, what are you not doing? Because you’re scared of it. Maybe it’s sales calls because you’re afraid of rejection. Maybe it’s taking the next step in your business because you’re afraid of what might happen. I would encourage you today to stop building up the issue, to be bigger than it is in your mind and just do it. You must deal with the tradeoffs, however, before they even happen. So you’ve got to decide right now in your mind, okay, if I’m going to do this, this is the trade off of doing this. If I’m going to do this, here’s the cause and here is the effect, and go ahead and, and mentally process that in advance. And therefore, when the worst case scenario happens, you’re already prepared for it. Or if the worst case scenario doesn’t happen in your mind, you’ve already prepared for the worst. And so, uh, it feels good by comparison because the worst possible case scenario didn’t actually unfold.

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