Show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works. Think about that idea. If you have faith and you believe that you’re destined to be successful and your destined to achieve your dreams, but you don’t actually put forth the effort or put in the work, that’s a problem my friend. Nothing works unless you do your book. You know that book you’ve been thinking about writing, it’s not going to write itself. You know that that business you’ve wanted to start that company wanted to franchise that business is not going to grow itself, my friend. The time will never be just right. You must act now. You must block out time in your schedule to take the practical action steps needed to turn your dreams into reality. You must learn to say no to grow and that is why I am so excited for you to hear today’s guest throughout.
Pastor phrases well documented, career in ministry. He has helped to grow for churches. He grew his first church in Fort Worth for 400 members to nearly 4,000 members before joining Willow Creek Church, which now has 28,000 members, pastor phrase. He then went onto oak hills church in San Antonio to help grow the church from approximately 500 members to nearly 10,000 members and now he’s in Kansas City doing it again, helping to grow a church from 4,500 members to already 6,000 members and this required a lot of faith and a lot of work throughout past randy’s career. He’s written over a dozen books. Think about that. Think about the time, the effort, the writing, the editing to diligence, the time blocking, the preparation, the research. He’s done it and you can too. And on today’s show, pastor Randy Frazee joins us to teach why faith works and he teaches us the power of the sixth day principal and the diligence of the Hebrew calendar.
Sure, what? Yes, yes, yes, yes. On today’s show we are interviewing a pastor who is helping to lead a church of more than a thousand members, more than 2000 members than Ed. Many,
many members. He’s humble, but yet he’s leading a large congregation. Pastor Randy Frazee. Welcome onto the show, sir. How are you?
I am doing great. Excited all day to do with you.
Uh, sir. I want to ask you this. For the listeners out there who are not as familiar with your background and your history, how many people currently attend your church and can you kind of introduce our listeners to the, to the church that you are the pastor of and just kind of introduce us into your church and how large it is at this point?
It was in Fort Worth, Texas for 16 years. A church that I grew from 400 to 4,000. And then I was a teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church in Chicago, which is 28,000. And then I was at Oak Hills Church in San Antonio for 10 years. We grew up from 4,500 to almost 10,000 people and actually now play. I am in Kansas City. I’ve just recently taken on a new church that started off about 4,500. We’re already at 6,000, so I’m pretty excited about seeing how things grow here.
Are you on steroids? what?
Oh, good. This though, because I have worked as a consultant for a lot of churches over the years. And if you look at the George, the George Barna Research, many churches just don’t grow. They just don’t know 100 members, hundred 50 members, a pastor. Randy, why do you feel like the churches that you have joined have grown so much?
Uh, I think a couple of things. Number one, let’s add the God factor. For whatever reason, God has placed his hand to favor, uh, you know, uh, I think Craig Groeschel you’ve had on your show calls it the it factor and for whatever reason, God has placed his hand of favor on me. Uh, and uh, and on the churches that I’ve worked with on the leadership that I’ve been involved with. So there’s obviously a God blessing and I want to be careful not to take the credit. I think a couple of other, a couple of other factors that would be, uh, would be, uh, from, from my point of view, you know, I love, I love the scriptures. I love coming alongside and helping people grow. So it’s really not. I have a vision you help me, but it’s more a, I know you have a vision, how can I come alongside and help you? And I think that really works for people, a Bible engagement. I think people really want to know the truth. They want to anchor their life and something solid. And uh, and then just really creating an environment of positivity. Also creating an environment where we live beyond ourselves. I think people are attracted to an excellent organization, uh, where they’re doing something that’s for the greater good.
Randy, when did you, because I think a lot of people are intimidated by a resume. We have a lot of entreprenuersZ, wantrepreneurs. We have pastors that listened to this show and they’re going, gosh, I just hearing what he’s doing. So I’m going to ask, I mean, can you talk to us about when you first entered into the ministry, maybe when you were running a snow cone, stand for a church or a lemonade stand? Maybe steps first enter into,
here’s my story, clay and Robert, first of all, I grew up in an unchurched home in Cleveland, Ohio. So I am like every other character you find in the Bible, I am the least likely character to be used in a big way. If you look at all the characters in the Bible, men and women, one of the things you’ll notice is that they were the least likely candidate, Abraham and Sarah, too old to have children. Moses can’t speak. I mean the disciples are ragamuffin bag of people that shouldn’t have been able to do anything in their life. So I fall in the same brand as those folks grew up in an unchurched home at the age of 15. Uh, my, uh, my, uh, neighbor two doors down that worked with my dad at Caterpillar invited me and my younger sister to church. So at the age of 14 I heard the message became a Christian and then at the age of 15, a one particular man, and then several after that, uh, spoken to my life and said, I think you would make a good pastor.
I never had anybody say anything like that to me. So at age 15 I decided that’s what I’m going to do. And I kind of did in the Malcolm Gladwell, you know, a sort of outlier staying. I logged my 10,000 hours before the average person. I started at age 15 and my first church job was at the age of 16. I was the choir director of the church and that’s where I finally, I looked around and I took this little choir of about 10 people and grew to 40 at the age of 16 in a church of about 300. And that’s when I said I think I might have a god knighted given and put into me a leadership gift. And so, uh, that’s how things got started for me.
The leadership gift, trainable, coachable. Can people learn this or is it in your mind a gift that nobody. It’s just like a natural thing that no one could possibly learn.
I think of giftedness, um, you know, from a biblical perspective is a God gives gifts to different people in leadership is one of those gifts. And then I think another thing it says in Romans chapter eight that he gives a measure of faith. So even though a person has been given the gift of leadership, there’s different people who have different measures of faith and I think we have to not base worth on which gifts you have or what measure of faith you have been given. New Meaning, what level of risk or capacity you can go at. Because I’m around a lot of other leaders and, and have, have studied under them that have worked with them that have way more capacity than me. But um, I, I do believe that it’s something that’s been deposited in you and then you have to be a good steward of it. I think that being a good steward of his, where you can come along and receive coaching like you guys do, that take a leader and taking them from an embryonic state to making great global impact.
Pastor Randy, I have to confess, I have to confess he’s a pastor. You could confess professional music on a heard of you and I. You know what I needed to do. I got to watch some sermons and there’s one particular sermon that you had online called faith works where that really resonated with me because you said your mother was not your friend and I thought Z, where does he get to see a lot? And I continued watching and it says, but she took on the position of being your mom. I love for you to share what you mean by this because I think a lot of people want to be. I want to be my son’s best friend. I want to be my employee fresh snapchat, and I think people get the roles confused. Can you please talk to us? You, you, you went on to explain. I don’t mean to put words in your mouth, but you explained your mother was. You had such a reverence for her. You loved her, she guided you, she coached you, but she was not your friend. Can you please explain the relationship you have with you?
I will. I’ll tell you my relationship with my mother. I came out from Thomas Nelson last year called what happens after you die? Talks about a very difficult experience. I went through when I lost my mother at the age of 62 to pancreatic cancer. So I wrote a whole book on the journey of how difficult it was, not for me to lose my friend, but for, for me to lose my mother. The only one I have ever an ever will have. And she knew that my mom’s not. It was not an educated woman. She wasn’t trained or schools, but she got. She really understood that, uh, I, in fact, you know, I was her son and she was the mother and she was going to take on that role. She loved me. But I, and I’ve seen this in the research that children desperately, even though they’ll react negatively, children desperately want their parents to provide guidelines and rules for them to really hold true to that and the discipline. And I think when that happens, the children end up doing a lot better job. And so I think the generation of parenting from my time forward has been, I want my kids to be my best friend. And I think that is really not a good thing.
Okay. So you said your mother was not your best friend and to provide evidence of this. And again, if I, if I, if I say if I say stuff, if it’s at a context that’s wrong, who am I to put a password in context? I’d be a bad person. You’d be. I can over the throat punch. So is going to attack me physically. You can attack me verbally. So here we go. I understand. And again, I see. I hate to say this, I, I, I think that I heard you say pastor randy, did you get your last spanking from your mother at the age of 16? I’m exaggerating, I’m thinking I’m a bad person. Am I exaggerating?
No, you are not, and I get in trouble every time I share this,
so I’m not. I’m not trying to delay.
I’m not trying to lay out a philosophy of whether you should believe in spanking and I’m just telling you what I did at the age of 16 is a. I went over to a friend’s house that I knew my mom would not approve of US spending a lot of time with and they lived a very, not not like drugs and all that, but just a very unruly life and they asked me to spend the night back when there weren’t cell phones and I knew that if I called my mom, she would say no. So I decided not to call her and I decided to basically spend the night and go home in the morning having no idea what it means to be a parent. My mom was up all night looking and searching for them.
Me Without Google, without
cell phones and all of that, and when I go home in the morning thinking it was no big deal. She was livid and I told her the situation, she says, you’re not too big to be spanked, randy, and I said, you’ve got to be out of your mind, and she went and got my dad’s belt and she flipped me to the side and I put my hands on my butt and she said, you better move your hand so they’re going to get hit, and the first one came to my hand. That hurts, and so I moved and I got a few more after that. It didn’t necessarily hurt me, but boy it got my attention and I to this day, love my mother for a helping put me in my, in, in my place. So I know the law to listeners are going to go away. That’s the worst, horrible thing. I’m not advocating spanking. I’m advocating a mother who loved me enough to put me in my place.
That’s what I’m advocating a one upsmanship a pastor randy, but then you get your last meeting from your mother at the age of 52. No, seriously. Talk about your mother. Your mother was a disciplinarian. Disciplinarian. There’s several days I want to spank you. Thirty seven now, 38, 38 last week. It got kind of awkward to be 37, 38. Now changes happened. You know, I can’t keep track of my age. It changes every year. Seriously. What was the last time that your mother really held you accountable? Z. How old were you lit into me? Yeah. God, that’s. I was a teenager. My Dad, my dad definitely grounded me. Pastor a phrase you hear seriously. My entire summer when I was 16 years old, the entire summer I couldn’t leave. What’d you do to get granted for the entire summer? I snuck out yet again and he was like, you’re grounded.
I’m like, for how long? And he’s like three months. Oh my God. Excessive. I don’t know who was the last time, but my mom was a big I. whether you believe in it or not. My mom was a big spanker and then the worst part though she’d made my dad do when he came home, is that move you? He’d come home from work and be like, when your dad gets home because you know, you know, I’ll be like, yeah, I’d always came with a lead pipe which made it weird, having no idea what went on and wanting to come home to peace and harmony house to spank the boys. What was the last time? Give us an eight. 15, six slash 14 slash 13 some. Okay. Find Pester Miranda. He won’t answer the question. So during this sermon, faith works. You know, you read the verse, Titus One Slash Sixteen, which reads, they professed that they know God, but in works they deny him being abominable and disobedient and unto every good work reprobate people are saying, what does this mean to break this down? Titus 1:16. What? What? What does that mean for all of our listeners out there?
Very similar to what Jesus said in the religious leaders. You say, Lord, Lord, but the truth is I never knew you. It’s the same kind of concept coming from the lips of titus. I think this is an unbeliever and I, and I think this is what I would label this as his cultural Christianity, which is a really big issue in the United States today, that people are coming along with the idea that I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but nothing in their life would give evidence that they had been totally radically affected by this one who’s offered them eternal life. And so it’s that chasm between what one says and what one does. Right? And, and, and, and the Bible, and in the writings of titus here as well as in the writings of Paul and his other letters is basically looking and saying there needs to be evidenced that the holy spirit is within you.
Okay? Now, let’s take the GE. I am a Judeo Christian. I know Dr Zellner isn’t a Marshall as, but let’s just say we take that out of it for a second. So you have probably a third of our listeners, maybe a quarter of our listeners who are not Judeo Christians. Um, psychology would, would describe this as cognitive dissonance where your actions don’t line up with your words or Taiwan. It’s defined as the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions. Pest, Randy, why do you feel that so many self employed? People will say, Zeke, I’m going to get one review every day. I’m gonna. Make 100 sales calls a day. I’m going to be the best plumber and my tac, but yet at the end of the day, they do nothing. Why do, why do we struggle by default to by default again, by default, not by you can you can fix it by, by, by default. What are we all struggle to align our words with our actions.
The proverbs 23, seven says it best with the word as a man thinks in his heart. So is he. So we become what we think, but not just what we think in our head or understanding our head, but what we actually believe in our heart. The context of that passage is have a miser. It’s a person who you went over to their house house, he told you to help yourself to his refrigerator. Once he did, he got mad at you. The reason is he can say whatever he wants to say with his mouth, but in his heart he has a belief system that conjures up that have a miser and he cannot help himself. So I would say, uh, in, in, in, in, in an agreement with you is that, that, that people are not a either self-aware or are not being honest. That there is a huge difference between saying something that is appropriate, like I’m going to do this and really opening up their heart and realizing that their belief system, the actual belief system that they embrace, which they may or may not be fully aware of, is really what’s driving who they are.
So it doesn’t matter what you say. It really only matters what the beliefs are in your heart and what those beliefs are will turn around and automatically make you into the kind of person you are.
Marshall, I’d like for you to read point nine because I went through pastor randy sermon, faith works and I tried to break it down into certain segments there. Could you break down point nine because I just want to. I want to sit back here and be kind of a Monday. The Monday morning quarterback. I’m fascinated, fascinated with today’s interview. Okay, so, uh, you quoted James to 18 and 19 in your sermon. Faith works okay and in that reads, but someone will say, you have faith. I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God, good. Even the demons believe that. And Shudder. I would love for you to break down this verse a little bit more in what it means from your perspective because somebody hearing this and they’re like, what? Can you explain that a little bit further?
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all actually faith is not what saves a person in it, in, in the, in the New Testament. What we learned is that it actually, it is Jesus Christ and his work on the cross that saved us, but faith is required of us. And, and when you look at the Bible, one of the things that we’ve kind of lost our way in is that faith is not a passive thing, but rather faith is active. It says in the New Testament about Abraham of the Old Testament. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. And when it says that it’s referring to Abraham’s decision when God introduced himself to him to actually leave the comfort of his city and the earth, the calories, and actually head out to a land that God would show him once he got on the road.
So the faith was not just a verbal assent of belief in God, but rather faith was active. So the scriptures, faith is active now. Uh, the, the reality is the words don’t. The works don’t say, but the act of faith does it save us a. But it gives evidence that a real decision has been made from the heart. And therefore a person in this case who says they believe in God, but then they have no regard for God in the day to day activities of their life. What? What James is saying, that there can’t, that faith is dead faith never got that. Let’s see. Never even was even awakened. A person has to ultimately with the presence of God in their life. It’s gonna bring itself. We say it’s like the incarnation with Mary. Mary said once God was born in her, eventually he had to come out and, and so basically faith without works is dead.
It is that. And, and we can talk about this as well. You know when it talks about the demons believe and shutter, and I know this is one of the other questions you have where a Gallup says that 86 percent of Americans believe that Jesus is the son of God. But the reality is 100, 100 percent of the demons believe that he is God. And what this is signaling is something that listeners really need to dial in on. It is because it’s a major problem in every church I’ve been in, in every city I’ve been in, that people are not separating the difference between believing that there is a god or believing that Jesus is the son of God and actually receiving, receiving that God into your life for the forgiveness of your sins. There’s a difference. So 86 percent of Americans believe there’s God, uh, but 100 percent of the demons believed that there is a god believed that Jesus is the son of God, but they’re not going to be in a good place at the end of the day.
So you wrote your book. What happens after we die? So in a nutshell, what happens after we die? It’s a really big nut, but metaphorically speaking in a nutshell.
Yeah, yeah. I will try to give you the is quick as I can. I think the big. The big idea here is for the person. There’s two tracks. The person who believes a from their heart receives Christ. The Bible says that that person, when they die actually, their body doesn’t. That actually they don’t die. Their body expires. They live on and it basically says that their spirit goes to be with the Lord is only three verses in the new testament that refer to anything between death and the return of Christ. The thing that most people miss, which is which was which is so exciting, particularly when I saw my mom die of pancreatic cancer, is that when Christ returns and it’s a big idea, but the Bible teaches that Christ is going to return to establish his kingdom on earth. Most people think that the afterlife or eternity is up in the clouds playing harps and earning wings, but the reality is the eternal life is going to be on a, on a revive, a revitalized, renovated, or brand new earth, and we’re going to have physical bodies in God is going to walk amongst us like he did in the garden of Eden in Genesis One and two.
Now, for the person who doesn’t receive Christ, one of the things that cs Lewis said that I’m totally on board with is that God doesn’t send anybody to hell. He merely honors there who request, meaning that God wants you to be with him for all eternity, but if you don’t want it, he’s going to honor your request, and the Bible says that when a person dies or their body expires in this life without Christ, that their body goes to a place called hell or sheol or hades. It’s a holding tank. If you will, waiting the final judgment. When Jesus Christ returns, there’s going to be a final judgment. They’re going to be judged on their works. Their name is not going to be found in the book of life, which means they were forgiven for their sins by Christ and they’re cast into the lake of fire. There their body is cast into the lake of fire and there’s two points of view on that. One is eternal punishing, meaning that that person is going to be punished forever and ever and ever and to burn in the lake of sulfur and the other in his eternal punishment is at once their body hits the lake of fire, their body will be annihilated or come to nothing.
Say someone listening to our show today goes because you know they’re listening to a business show and they’re going, hey, let’s just focus on my life on earth. There’s a Bible verse called proverbs ten four. Proverbs 10, four. Lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth. Let’s assume not on an on an eternal perspective. Let’s just focus on the planet earth for the short window here. Can you please explain what this verse means on the planet Earth where it says lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth for all the business owners out there, the aspiring entrepreneurs, because I do share your worldview about heaven and hell, but on a, on a secular sense right here on the planet earth. What do you what? What does that verse mean?
In my perspective, the book of proverbs is a book of pithy statements that are generally true when applied. In other words, not promises, but they are general principles that are generally true, and basically the Bible, in my estimation and the estimation of lots of other people is, is the best business book a person could ever read because in our principles of wisdom by the person who established the rules by which has governed and the god who created us and says, if you want to be successful, uh, on, uh, on earth, which God desires for us to be, here are the principles that make it work. So basically there’s a, there’s several, several principals in the scriptures that repeat that over and over again, and that laziness leads to poverty. And that if you were diligent about your work, it is going to for the most, for the most part, generally speaking, uh, is, is no, there’s no, um, there’s, there’s no accident that the person who puts their hand diligently and effectively and efficiently to their work is going to have a better chance at being successful in many ways, not just materially, but in many other ways as, as they recognize ultimately the God is behind their success.
I’m going to give you three quotes that might rock the minds of some of our listeners there, but the Washington Post reports that 78 percent of the men interviewed, uh, during a particular survey, I guess indicated that they had cheated on their spouses. And I’m going to put this on the show notes. United States Chamber of Commerce, Marshall reported that 75 of us American employees admit to stealing from the workplace and that most do so repeatedly. Um, does that shock you at all, pastor phrasing?
No, it actually doesn’t. I’ve been reading these kinds of research written books from the time when I was in seminary. I started a nonprofit, a coaching organization back before everyone knew what it was and I worked with business and professional people while I was in seminary. And, uh, I saw these similar type of statistics, not only amongst just business people, but even amongst Christians, people who basically cheated on their taxes at the same rate as those who did not a believer in God. So I’m, I’m really not surprised. I wished in some way that we would get a little further along in our development spiritually are as people, but it seems like sort of the, the, the thing that curses is all is, is, is, is a part of our everyday life,
a pastor randy. Throughout my career I personally hit many low points is that I often talk about on this show, you know, a lot of times on the show I try to use self deprecation is a way to indicate to listeners that although my partner and I have been able to, we’ve been blessed to build multimillion dollar companies. I’ve had a lot of rock bottom moments. Um, is there a rock bottom moment with your career that you’ve had in India? How did you go about getting through it?
Yes, I’ve had in my career, I had a particular rock bottom experience came back when I was 39. I kind of shared with you at the beginning of the show some of the, you know, the trajectory and the success of growth. But one of the things I did in my early part of my career, uh, was I did not have any boundaries in terms of my work and rhythm and time and family. No one ever taught me that. So I got up and I go back to proverbs. I was diligent with my hands, but I didn’t follow other principles of scripture which would call for me to have balance in my life. And, uh, at the age of 39, I went to bed one night and I couldn’t go to sleep. And the next night I went to bed. I didn’t go to sleep again.
I’m not talking about going to sleep and waking up. I’m talking about never going to sleep. This went on for 45 days, uh, and I was an absolute mess. And so what happens when you experience insomnia, which is a common thing in America, one out of every two Americans suffers from some form of, of insomnia at one and six from chronic insomnia. And the problem with insomnia, not only does it make you less productive at work, not only does it make you irritable and your relationships, but eventually the chemistry of your body gets out off and you start experiencing anxiety and depression and you have this enormous sense that something is coming after you. And basically that took me down to the floor and, uh, and I, uh, went to the doctor and started to learn, uh, not only from my doctor, but I started to learn from the scriptures that the Bible lays that there needs to do.
Your body is made up of 10,000 clocks and those clocks, I have one primary, one called the pineal gland that works off of light and works off of darkness and it, and those are recorded right on the first pages of the, of the Bible in terms of light and darkness. And I violated those. No one ever taught them to me. And I thought I was going to lose my mind. And as a result, I saw, you know, I saw a sense that the future for me was not going to be very helpful, uh, in, in, in productive. And I began a journey of applying a principle called the Hebrew day planner and ultimately wrote it in a book called making room for life. And it has been a life changer for me, but I’ll have to tell you, it was a devastating two years as I was recovering from that.
The Hebrew day planner.
Yeah, the Hebrew day planner. So in genesis chapter one a after each day of creation, a god finishes the day by saying there was evening and there was morning the first day and the, you can just gloss over that, but it seems a little bit backwards in America we would say there is morning and evening the first day. So if you were to draw a circle and a line in the middle of the circle on, on the right side of the circle there, 6:00 AM on the left side, there’s 6:00 PM. And then you were to draw a line for 10:00 PM. The Hebrew day planner basically works this way from 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM, uh, you have all of the opportunity to get all of your productive work done during the day, whether that’s work at home, your kids, school, work your work in the office, but from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM is the season for relationship. You put your work down for the rest of the day, you gather around the table with family and friends. The lights are turned down low. You stay off your computer and you enter into a season of relationship. And then at 10 from 10 to 6:00 AM is a season for sleep.
The reason that’s important. Sorry to cut you off. I would like for you to repeat that one more time. Trying to take notes and that is powerful. Everything you just said was so profound. Could you please break down the calendar one more time?
Yep. Six Am to six PM is the season for work. This is all biblically based and also very physiologically placed from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM is the season for relationships gathering around the table, wasting the evening away. No work. Ten pm to 6:00 AM is the season for sleep, for rest and uh, and the reason it’s called the Hebrew day planner is a, if you remember in the, there was evening and morning the first day into Hebrew day versus the Greek Day. The Hebrew Day begins at 6:00 PM the day before and whatever is first and Hebrew, whether it’s the language, whether it’s offerings or now it’s our time. Whatever is first is the most important. So in America we see 6:00 AM, the season of work as the most important. In God’s time clock, he sees a 6:00 PM, uh, if you ever watched fiddler on the roof, you been at the gathering of, around the meal, at the opening of the play, uh, the gathering around the meal or the season of relationships is the most important. And therefore it takes your priority. And when you get that relational season right, the sleep goes better and the work goes better. And I think this is one of the things that the American worker who wants to be successful is missing. And it was an eyeopener for me once I established relationship first. Everything else started to fall together for me and I learned principles of productivity that actually enabled me to get more work done than I’ve ever gotten done in my entire life.
Why do we hear references to working on the sixth day and then resting on the seventh? Can you explain what you believe the workweek should look like? Do you believe in working Monday? Weren’t working six days a week and then taking the seventh day off a sabbath? I’d love to hear because you have studied the word, the origin of the words. I mean, this is what you do. I’d love to hear your, your, your, your, your take on the sixth day principal and the importance of the Sabbath.
Yup. I would tell you that in genesis chapter one and the creation of the heavens and the earth of poetry that lays out there on the page is a very beautiful, uh, uh, two of the six days were given to the light and darkness. And then on the sixth day, uh, we were created. The question is where we created in any way our bodies are our brains anyway to function with light. And darkness, and the answer to that is unequivocally yes. And so our whole bodies function on, on light and light and darkness into the rising of the sun. And the setting of a sudden I see three rhythms, a play, one of them is a seasonal rhythms. And so, you know, in the wintertime the days are shorter. I call that a season of melancholy. I think that we should go with that. And I think if you try to fight against that and be more productive, I think the days are shorter.
I think God is inviting us seasonally to take a break. Number two, I think that we were created to work six off, uh, off one. And I, I, uh, adhere to that or religiously because I recognize my body works in that way. So I would rather work six days and know that I would rather to work a five days and a lot of evening. So in my priorities are, I worked six days a week and I, if I have to, uh, but I very seldom, if ever. I’m not saying like legalistically, I never do it, but I’m saying as a pattern in my life, I would recommend listeners not to work in the evenings and that goes down to the daily rhythm of the Hebrew day planner, so there’s. There’s the seasonal rhythms, there’s the weekly rhythms, and then there is the daily rhythms right there. On the first page of the Bible,
you had a lot of ministers on this show. A lot of pastors. The pastor Craig Rochelle on the show, we’re having John Maxwell, who was a former pastor on the show. We’ve got a lot of big folks, Marshall and this idea because Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1938 introduced the fair Labor Standards Act where he said that he suggests you should work 38 hours per week, but yet I don’t know anybody out there. I. I don’t know anybody. I don’t know any entrepreneurs out there who have ever been successful. We’ve Marsha, we’ve interviewed billionaires millionaires. We have the founder of priceline.com and be on the show here soon. The founder of Ritz Carlton. I’m talking about billionaires and none of them work four days a week or five days a week. Can you explain why the Bible is instructing us to work six days and then be off one? Whereas our culture is explaining to work 40.
Yeah, that’s exactly right. See, I think that we got to go back to the one who created us and knew how we were created. So the one day off is important. I like to describe it like a vacuum cleaner. If you own a business and uh, and you try to save some money by buying a residential vacuum cleaner versus a commercial vacuum cleaner, then you’re going to burn out that vacuum cleaner because it wasn’t created. It was created as a residential back and cleaner, not a commercial. We were created with a red. We were created as a residential vacuum cleaners, meaning that we can work, you know, during the day, six days a week. But whenever you try to push us and work the midnight shift after the sun goes down, or seven days a week, we’re going to burn out. And I think for there, there are many billionaires or millionaires who have work excessive hours, but may not be very happy with where they’re at with their relationship with God, their relationships with others and all that.
But I do believe that there are many billionaires who have lived by the principle of God and have discovered tremendous balance. Uh, and so I have told people over the years, you know, the, the, all you need to do is follow the patterns of God, which basically suggests that productivity, uh, productivity and work leads to ultimately will lead to a greater wealth. Uh, and, and you just gotta put the time in, but you need to put it in according to how God wired your body. So again, I go back to 60, I’d rather work six days. And so what I did guys, I just, I just as a pastor where, you know, I’m working with thousands of volunteers. I just worked my schedule, uh, and just kind of laid out some boundaries that I would rather work on Saturday, uh, as an additional day to meet with volunteers. Then I would work in the evenings and I did that too because I was afraid of going back into that place where my, uh, I was not able to sleep and my body was going crazy. So the principles of God are the best thing for your listeners who are not dialed into the scriptural principles of running a business. It’s one of the best places to shop.
I have four final questions for you and I want to ask you this. What do you plan out your day? What does that process look like?
Yes. When I plan out my day, it is the, I think it’s probably like many of your other guests. It’s, it’s actually fairly regimented in terms of, uh, of what I do. First of all, I start off with A. I have a in my little journal that I carry with me everywhere I go. I’m more of a handwritten guy, old school, handwritten sport, poor coffee on it versus a digital guy. Uh, but I, I have a basically an overall vision for the next three to five years. And then I have an annual plan and then every day that I get up, I use, I use a single, uh, three, a stick, the sticky note, a little yellow sticky note and the things that I have to do that day come from the priorities of that plan. And it has to sit on a sticky note. If it goes beyond the sticky note, I know that I’m not acting as a leader.
A leader cannot have that many things to do. And so I put those things on the skit and it, here’s the thing that I do differently than a lot of other people is that whenever I finish everything on that list, that’s all that I need to get done for the day. And so therefore I treat myself by going golfing. And so, uh, so I have this principle that work takes all the time allotted to it and there’s a number of your listeners that are working too many hours. There’s a research that was done and this is kind of antithetical to what we just talked.
Maybe you can get the research done, you might be interested in. They did a study of people who work and just find out how much productivity they had. They studied people who work six hours, eight hours, 10 hours, 15 hours, and they discovered at the end of the of the day that the, the, the only, the, the amount of work that anybody can get done in a given day is pure four hours of pure work, four hours of pure work, and so the, the, the, the, the, the, the thought now is not, I need to work longer hours. The thought is how long does it take me to get four hours of pure work done for me on my best day. It takes me six hours to get four hours of pure work done and what that does is it gives me the freedom to be more efficient. What I found in my younger years going to the office is I was putting in a lot of work, but a lot of that was very inefficient work and that was ultimately getting off sides with my family and ultimately my sleep. So I hope that helps a little bit.
No, this is rightly divided. A pastor randy, you come across as a very well read person, uh, on the, on the sermons I’ve watched online. I mean, again, I know the Bible is the irrefutable word of God. You and I both believe that in addition to the Bible, are there one or two really practical books that you would recommend for all of our listeners to, to read and checkout?
I spent a lot of my time reading original research in theology, so I will say the, your, your listeners, those are my favorites of those. Um, but there is some, a couple practical books that I really, really like. One of them is by a guy named Bob who sports illustrated a calls the best sports recruiter that no one’s ever heard of. And uh, he wrote two books, the power of who but the one I want to refer to, it’s called a two chairs and he just really is coming alongside of the business leader and really encouraging them to have a conversation with God. And I would really recommend that book. It’s just very accessible and very helpful. The second one was given to me just a couple of weeks ago when I was in Nashville meeting with Dave Ramsey and he brought in a speaker by the name of Stephen Mansfield, who wrote a number of books on our presidents of the faith of Obama, the faith of George W Bush, but he wrote a little tiny book. It’s called the, the, the 10 signs of a leadership crash. It’s just a little tiny book, but in it, there are 10 things that they have discovered through their research that is basically the sign that a leader is about to crash number. The first one was, uh, being out of season. Uh, and, and I just have found that in book to be very instructive for me as a leader who desperately doesn’t want to crash. So Steven Mansfield’s book on 10 signs of a leadership crash. And Bob [inaudible] book called two chairs.
Randy Frazee. Rumor has it, you might be from the town call or you might have family from the town called frazy, Minnesota. Am I, am I correct or am I exaggerating my wrong in any way?
No, no, no, I think you’re absolutely right. I’m actually just discovering this. I have a sister who lived in Minnesota up to this last couple months. He now lives in San Antonio, Texas. Uh, but she’s gone into phrasing Minnesota several times and uh, and some of the phrase these including a gym crazy has reached out to me on facebook and said we are related. So I think that I am now adding to my resume the name of a town.
So. And again, Jim Crazy is my uncle marshal. So I think that who was once very Bonnie phrase, he is my uncle who is now somewhat related to you. So now that gives you the floor to say whatever you want to say because they don’t, they know that we’re family. You can say, well clay, with all due respect, you know, whatever you want to say. Our listeners out there, you have the floor. We have hundreds of thousands of people per month that download this podcast. I give you the floor, I give you the platform, a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs. What do you want to share with all the listeners out there with all due respect now that we might be eight cousins?
I appreciate that. Well, you know, one of the things I would say in terms of what I’m really working on these days, uh, now, uh, uh, in, in the city of Kansas City, I am discovering, uh, but I think something very close to your heart as you go to your webpage. I’m seeing that in Kansas City, whether it’s followers of God or not, one of the biggest threats to their ability to achieve what it is they want to achieve or even things that as a pastor I want to see them achieve for the sake of the greater kingdom is that they lack margin, that margin in their time and they walked back margin in their. And I would suggest to the readers or the listeners that God’s principles or running your finances and running your time are, are just absolutely timeless and very effective. And I would, uh, that’s going to be a major focus that we have here.
We’re in the next fall. We are partnering with Dave Ramsey and also the book I wrote called making room for life to motivate and bring together a hundred churches in Kansas City to address this issue of margin in time and also the issue of finances, really believing that God’s going to do some really great things. I also say this, uh, just doing a study on the greatest movements in the Bible as well as throughout human history. These movements have not come from the hands of pastors, but rather they’ve come from the hand of marketplace leaders. And you can check me out on this. And my encouragement would be to all of your, uh, uh, all, all of your listeners is that God has an opportunity for them to do something that no one else can do. Don’t underestimate because you sit in a church and have no idea what it’s all about, uh, to, to, to think that God cannot use you beyond your business. Some of the biggest movements that are happening that I see internationally as well as nationally are actually being led, uh, by business leaders who have a big faith and the big vision. And the ability to scale things in a major way. So my encouragement would be a, you have an enormous purpose in life, in your business as well as for the Kingdom of God.
I have one final question. I know you have one final question as well. I’m just saying I’m looking at pastor Randy Frazee right now and Google and I’m saying you are lean and mean you are staying and legit. How are you doing it? What is your daily Diet look like? I mean this because you have a busy schedule. He spent a lot of your time reading, studying, preaching. You have a lot of obligations. How do you stay in such great shape?
Well, thank you for your encouragement. I take it very seriously as I think everyone should. I see my body, you know, as the tent that God has given me to achieve. Everything wants to be the cheap and if the 10th it’s carrying me around in isn’t healthy, then I’m not going to be able to to get it all done. I will. I’ll give you a couple of things. Number one, I. I work out five days a week and I do it in the morning. Uh, I, uh, I, I do the Nike running club and the Nike Training Club. I, I do three five ks a week and then I do the Nike Training App, a variety of things from yoga polities to strength training. And it’s just the Nike Training App. A diet wise. I eat a protein shake every morning and have a for a number of years now. And I simply go low carb, low sugar.
Uh, my wife is almost 100 percent Italian, so we do a lot of the Mediterranean diet stuff. I focus heavily on getting eight hours asleep. Sometimes I’m an overachiever and get nine and I feel very rested up. And then every year and a half I get an executive physical. So I got a good plan as to where I’m struggling and where I need to go. And for a number of years I’ve gone to a guy named David player in San Antonio, Texas called health by design, have amazing believer and I would encourage the listeners to really, uh, get a, get an executive physical, uh, to make sure that you have the energy to, to accomplish all that God has for you.
So you said you get an executive physical every year and a half, is that right?
Yeah, but every year that should do it every year, but I’m always about six months later.
And you get an executive from who?
His name is, Dr David Player. It’s kind of like the Ken Kenneth Cooper Center. It’s just a version down in San Antonio. And he just, just, just, he, he was, uh, basically, uh, you know, worked with diabetic patients. And he basically said, I just got tired of ordering the lens being chopped off of people. I needed to go back to the very foundation of our health. And he told me that basically our health and everything in life is resident within our guts. So, uh, so he’s guided me. I get the, I get a summary of where everything’s at, where I need to work, on what strong, uh, I’m, I’m open to find signs of cancer early to, to, to attack it. And so that’s just the, that’s the sort of proactive but a attack that I took primarily after I had my sleep. Insomnia. That makes any sense.
Marshall, this is probably one of the most profound shows he’s ever had. I know you have one question as always. I don’t know if it’ll one up you, but I got it. I got a really good one here, pastor randy. I’m being coachable. You know, both in your spiritual life for all of our business owners and entrepreneur listeners, to you, what does being coachable mean and why is that such an important thing to, uh, to continue to grow?
I think you did a one on that.
First of all, first of all, I, uh, I’ve made a decision in my life that I’m looking at people ahead of me that are successful and some of my mentors were always a learning and we’re always a teachable and coachable. And so I want to take on the posture, being humble. Now if a person comes at me and I feel like their motives are to tear me down, I never give them the satisfaction that I’ve listened to them, but I always go into my closet of prayer and say God with everything, there is a, a ray of truth. And I take that hard work of saying what is the kernel of truth and I need to take from this because I want to win through this nasty encounter. But I never give a destructive person the satisfaction. But when I have somebody come into my life and my dad just be vulnerable, my daughter did it today. I got my four year old, so a grandson’s birthday tomorrow and I scheduled something or right at dinner time, which is a known okay
for our family. And my daughter, my daughter
just came at me today and said, dad, that’s just not who you are. And I, I left the office, I went to her face to face apologized. Center flowers said, you are absolutely right. I find if a business leader cannot remember the last time he looked someone in the face and say, I’m sorry without a but to it, he’s in deep or she’s in deep trouble, so I find coachability is very, very important. If you want to keep learning and growing and you want to put around you people that love you, that believe in you, that celebrate you and just invite them to give you a feedback and coach you in your life. And if you’re not getting any of that, it’s not because you’re fully grown. It’s because you just haven’t surrounded yourself with people like that. So I can give you many examples and illustrations of, for example, when it came to Kansas City, uh, they called a bunch of my resumes and my references and they put together a sheet of things that I could be mindful of. I carry that one piece of a sheet on how I could improve in my briefcase every day,
possibly even more profound. Pastor Randy, I’m glad to know we’re eight cousins twice removed on my mom’s side and we’d like to end each and every show with a boom. Essentially we say three, two, one, and then boom, which stands for big, overwhelming, optimistic momentum, which is what we believe we need to do to take what we’re learning and put it into practice. And so I’m Marsha, are you ready to bring a book? Absolutely. Pastor Mandy, are you prepared to bring us about. I’m going to bring them. Boom. Okay, here we go, and the thrive nation. Now you know the principles. My question I have for you is what are you going to do with it? I would encourage you today to get out that calendar, to look deep into the calendar and to begin to block out time for the achievement of the things that you need to get done.
As an example, if you want to write a book, you’re going to have to block out at least I would recommend at least five hours a week to write that book. If you want to get a book written this year, you got to block it out. Is it all going to be five consecutive hours? Is it going to be just an hour every, every morning? Where do you need to be when you’re writing the book and what time of the day will you be writing the book and where do you physically need to be located? When you’re writing the book, think about all the details where where are you going to be? When are you going to do it? What kind of stuff did what kind of tools and resources that you need to have available to write the book and then block out that time and whether it’s a call scripting or you’re writing sermons or you’re writing a book or you’re building a workflow or your training your team or your recruiting your staff. Again, Lee Cockerell, the former executive vice president of Walt Disney world resorts, once told me, he said, what gets scheduled gets done. Share this podcast with a friend.