Pitch Anything | Oren Klaff on How to Pitch Anything, How to Flip the Script and How to Sell Something

Show Notes

The New York Times best-selling author of Pitch Anything joins us teach how to Pitch Anything, how he’s been able to raise over $1 billion of capital throughout his career, about the importance of understanding the psychological referencing systems known as frames and about his obsession with motorcycles.

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “Frames are psychological referencing systems that all people use to gain a perspective and relevance on issues. Frames influence judgment. Frames change the meaning of human behavior.” – Oren Klaff, Pitch Anything: An Innovative Method for Presenting, Persuading, and Winning the Deal

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “When you are reacting to the other person, that person owns the frame. When the other person is reacting to what you do and say, you own the frame.” – Oren Klaff, Pitch Anything: An Innovative Method for Presenting, Persuading, and Winning the Deal

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “There are limits to the human attention span, which is why a pitch must be brief, concise, and interesting,” – Oren Klaff, Pitch Anything: An Innovative Method for Presenting, Persuading, and Winning the Deal

  1. Yes, yes, yes and yes! Thrivetime Nation on today’s show we are interviewing Oren Klaff who is the best-selling author of Pitch Anything, which has sold over 1,000,000 copies throughout the planet earth. Throughout his career, he’s written for Harvard Business Review, Inc, Entrepreneur and other leading publications. He is an investment partner in a $200 million private equity fund and in his spare time he is a motorcycle enthusiast. Oren Klaff, welcome onto the Thrivetime Show…how are you sir?!
    1. I have owned 1,000 motorcycles in the past 10 years
    2. We have a warehouse where we build motorcycles and cars
    3. I ran a car in the Daytona 500 this year
    4. We are in Southern California
  2. I know that you’ve had a ton of success at this point in your career, but I would love to start off at the very beginning of your career. What was your life like growing up and where did you grow up?
    1. I was always entrepreneurial growing up
    2. We started a software company on the East Coast
    3. We moved out to California and grew to 70 people and $10,000,000
    4. We went out to try to find money and we got a ton of questions about our marketing plan and our org charts.
    5. In a span of 2 weeks, we had to come up with all of these stats and facts. We didn’t have enough time to get all of the correct numbers and that wounded me.
    6. I asked myself, “Who knows how to handle money?”
    7. I was a 30 year old intern and I got too good. I was able to sell things that should not be sold.
    8. Once you know how to use and acquire money, you have a power and you have to be able to know how to use that power
    9. Since then, I have been committed to learning how to get better at pitching and closing.
  3. What is a pitch deck?
    1. When you ask a bank for a loan, you have to have a plan and a budget.
    2. A pitch deck says what the big idea is.
      1. What is the plan?
      2. Is the plan realistic?
      3. It is the 8-9 page explanation 
      4. https://venturehacks.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Pitching-Hacks.pdf 
      5. The pitch deck is the unlock code. It is the key to unlock the money, the agreement, and the contract.
    3. Too much of the world is focused on the first investment. There are dozens of other deals that need to be done.
    4. After you have $500,000 from your first investor, you have to buy a building. If you give a landlord the same pitch you gave the investors, it won’t work.
    5. People want what they can’t have, people chase what moves away from them, and people only value what they pay for.
    6. When you offer something, they don’t want it anymore because you offered it to them.
  4. How much money have you raised throughout your career?
  5. When did you first figure out what you wanted to do professionally?
  6. When did you first feel like you were truly beginning to gain traction with your career?
  7. I know that you are a serial entrepreneur who has experienced massive success and super low points…walk us through the lowest point of your career and what you learned from it?
  8. Oren, your book Pitch Anything is legendary…what first inspired you to write this book?
    1. People liked the way I did things and couldn’t figure out how I was doing it. 
    2. Everyone asked what I was doing and wanted me to write something on it.
  9. Oren for the listeners out there who are not familiar, I want to ask you about 3 proven sales strategies that you teach in Pitch Anything…1st, I’d love for you to share with the listeners about “The Method.” What is this all about?
  10. In Pitch Anything you teach about “Frame Control”..what is this all about?
  11. Oren, I would love for you to share about the concept of “Pitching Your Big Idea.” Break this down for us?
    1. You go to meet some friends and you walk into the restaurant and there is a ton of noise.
    2. Your friends are right there but the sound is so overwhelming that you can’t see them. Eventually they have to send someone to get you.
    3. Most people step into a situation with you and there is too much information and it is too loud. They can’t pick out the important information. Even if it is just you and them. You have to frame reality that limits many pieces of information and highlights just what they need to know.
    4. Frames are things that interact and come together. 
    5. When you do a deal with someone, you both bring your frames. The frames won’t always mash up. They clash and that is why deals take days and years to come together.
    6. Whenever the deals get larger the frames get more and more different.
  12. Now Oren, you have a new book that just came out…what inspired you to write, Flip the Script...and what’s in this book all about at its core?
    1. I wrote the book because things have changed. We rely so much on tech.
    2. When you get a lead, you have to actually talk to them.
    3. Once you get the customer, there should be no technology. It will always get in the way. All technology makes things worse.
    4. Leads are abundant and conversion is dropping and dropping so much.
    5. Things have changed. Buyers have been gamified. 
    6. Today, the buyer is rewarded for searching for cheaper and better deals. If they can’t find it, they come back, negotiate, and get a better deal. It is a game to them and sellers don’t have 
  13. What can readers learn from Flip the Script?
    1. Pitch Anything teaches you how to pitch anything to anyone. It shows you that these power frames exist. It shows you how to deal with these frames. 
      1. The buyer has a problem. They have money and they need to get it out so it doesn’t just sit there.
      2. You need money and you can get it anywhere.
      3. You know you can solve their problem and you know they need you.
      4. The number one frame breaker:
        1. “You’re here for the 10:04 meeting?”
      5. You do not have to chase every conversation thread that comes up.
        1. If they ask you a question, you don’t have to go down that rabbit hole. 
        2. Just give them a simple answer and move on.
          1. “How much is it?”
            1. “It is more than you want to pay and less than we want to charge.”
            2. “If you want the crazy cheap China stuff, that’s not us. If that’s what you want, let us know because we can help you. I know those people.”
      6. As you get better, you get more honest, to the point, and closer to your values.
      7. I will bend over backwards for you but the one thing I won’t do is change our values.
      8. I do hold the buyer accountable for the values that I am committed to.
    2. Flip the Script  teaches you how to get the buyer excited about your product
  14. How do you respond to a rebuttal from a buyer?
    1.  They don’t believe that you are the #1 expert in that industry.
    2. “The price is more than you want it to be and it is less than we want to charge”
      1. Stack the benefits
      2. He should feel that you are the ultimate expert
    3. “The price that we have is what it takes to get it working. If you want it cheap online for $100 less, let me get you the number to the person who can help you out. I’m happy to give you the 
  15. In Flip the Script, you write about Achieving Status Alignment…what is this concept all about?
  16. You write about, Closing the Certainty Gap…what does this mean?
  17. In the new book, you write about Presenting Your Idea as Plain Vanilla…why is this important?
  18. What message or principle that you wish you could teach everyone?
    1. Flip the script or die.
  19. What is a principle or concept that you teach people most that VERY FEW people actually ever apply?
  20. Oren, we find that super successful people tend to have a few idiosyncrasies that are kind of like their SUPERPOWERS…do you have an idiosyncrasy that is kind of your superpower?
  21. How do you typically organize the first 3 hours of each day?
Business Coach | Ask Clay & Z Anything

Audio Transcription

Guest Topic Banner Oren Klaff Thrivetime Show

All right, Jason, on today’s show we’re talking about the [inaudible].

She, BT.

Oh, I’m getting into it. Are you ready? I’m ready. That’s right. Folks, on today’s show, we’re going to talk about how to learn to get big time sales deals. Doll, you got me. I broke your frame. Now you did. You see you were thinking that I was thinking something else because I broke your frame. True. I’ve got your attention because you’re going, where’s the Shogun pickles and that’s what today’s guest does over and over and over again. On today’s show, we’re interviewing the New York times bestselling author of the book pitch, anything throughout orange claps career. He’s actually raised over a billion dollars in investment capital and now he is a partner in a $200 million private equity fund. He’s a motorcycle enthusiast. He’s written for the Harvard business review, inc magazine, entrepreneur magazine, and many other leading publications. Ladies and gentlemen, if you’ve ever struggled to pitch your ideas and to sell something, this is the show for you. Our exclusive interview and the New York times bestselling author, Oren Klaff.

Some shows don’t need a celebrity. In the writer to introduce a show. But this show dies to may eight kids co-created by two different women. 13 Moke time, million dollar businesses. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome

to the thrive time show.


yes, yes, yes and yes. Oh, snap, thrive nation. We have got orange clap on the Oren Klaff. Welcome into the dojo of mojo. How are you, sir?

Better now with that introduction, that was very fine. I don’t usually get that. I usually get Wharton university saying no. I’d like to next up on stage. I’d like to introduce you a very, a well-respected author, Oren Klaff. Please put your hands together as regular. Anyone,

Bueller, Bueller, Bueller has written books about frame breaking. We’ll go ahead and introduce him with a little golf channel mix here. You’re awesome, man. You’re seriously, you are the, you are the guy who taught me about breaking frames and, uh, I just, I just, I have to ask you this, my friend. What, what first inspired you to, to write that book? Pitch anything?

Yeah. Well, desperation. Need a frustration, pain, uh, the end of the runway in sight, you know, all that stuff. No. Uh, that’s what inspired me to finish the book, to start the book with really, you know, people liked the way I did things and he couldn’t figure out just how I was doing so much business closing deals a certain way. And it looked like nothing was happening when everything was happening. And they started saying, what are you doing? Tell it to us. And then I was on a radio show and then I had, uh, one of Howard Stern’s people listen in and they got in touch and then an agent and in New York and stuff. So things happened and I don’t know, people like me in a way. We went,

you know, uh, you’ve sold over a million copies, uh, of, uh, the, the, the pitch, anything book. And you’ve written for the Harvard business review, inc magazine entrepreneur, and you’re an investment partner, I believe in a 200, a million dollar private equity fund. Is that correct?

Yeah, that’s right. Uh, we’re investing in companies and buying companies. So, you know, doing the Lord’s work.

You’re also a motorcycle enthusiast, is this correct?

Yeah. Now that we can talk about, I have owned a thousand motorcycles in the last 10 years. So it’s funny you come into an office here and we’re closing a seven and a half million, $700 million deal today. Right. And people come here to finance office, glass windows and um, uh, you know, pretty normal office. But every once in a while some will open the wrong door and they’ll go, Oh, what just happen? Because out behind you I got mechanics and their wellbeing and their putting together race motorcycles and they got tattoos and you know, all the kinds of uh, TV show kind of mechanic guys working back there and they go, I think I just walked into a different business. Same business. We have a warehouse out back where we build a motorcycles and cars, you know, attached to the finance office. So yeah, motorcycles and cars. Absolutely a have me hooked in. I ran a car and [inaudible] Daytona 500 this year. So that was pretty incredible. Where are you, where are you located right now? Where do you work? Where’s your office located?

I am in a secure, undisclosed location in Southern California. Okay. So you’re, you’re there. The weather’s nice. Um, many would want to know. How did you get to a place in your life where you have thousands of motorcycles? You’re racing in the Daytona 500 [inaudible]. Walk us through the boogie very beginning of your career. Where did the Oren Klaff experience start? Yeah, well, I mean, one time when I was [inaudible]

very young, uh, the uh, door handle on our rolls Royce was broken and I had to ride to school, uh, in just a regular old minivan. I wouldn’t know.

That’s sad. That’s a sad story. It’s a sad story.

That’s a sad story. And you know, that was a transformative moment for me realizing that not every car was a rolls Royce. No. Uh, I think, uh, you know, I was always entrepreneurial growing up. Oh, w uh, at some point in college, you know, it was on the East coast. We started a software company, just myself and a buddy, and we added a couple of people there. And then finally, uh, you know, the East coast was not the happening place for software and get software engineers and everything. So we moved out to California and, uh, we grew, grew to 70 people to growing fast and uh, and approaching cresting through $10 million in revenue. And we just grew ourselves out of cash. So, you know, at that time there wasn’t a venture group, you know, in the, in the restroom of every seven 11, you know, or every Starbucks, you couldn’t walk in and raise $3 million.

By the time you finished ordering a coffee, there was nothing in, in software finance, you know, a couple Kleiner Perkins, a couple firms in the Valley. Uh, so I went out to try and find money and then, you know, we got all these questions. Let’s see your proforma. What are your key assumptions? What are your KPIs? What does your marketing plan look like? What’s the org chart? What are the holes in the org chart? Was the a F uh, you know, the forward 12 month plan. What is LTM, you know, what are your ratios when you’re grinding? We didn’t have any of that. We’re just running a software company. Uh, and, and so in a span of two weeks, I was sort of forced to semi produce all that stuff, but I wasn’t familiar with it and didn’t produce it to the quality that the then market wanted. I wasn’t able to raise the money for the company that we needed to really grow it and it kind of fizzled out. It wasn’t a disaster, but it fizzled out. It didn’t reach its true potential.

Dr Breck, how are you my friend? I am great. Thank you cliff, by the way, have you had a good weekend thus far? I have, yeah. What were you doing yesterday and highlights for us? So yesterday my uh, daughter had a football game to cheer at in Yukon, Oklahoma. Really? Yeah. Oh, do you like Yukon this time of year? Well, it wasn’t bad as first time. I’ve been there this time of year. You know what they say about Yukon this time of year? What’s a, I have no idea. Alright. So now on today’s show we’re interviewing Oren Klaff who is the bestselling author and he’s teaching about how to break frames. And I want to make sure this is very relevant and practical for all the listeners out there, right. What he’s talking about is how to pitch anything, how to sell something. Right. When did it occur to you as a chiropractor that your, that you were going to have to learn how to market and sell something?

Uh, and because in chiropractic school, I don’t know if they covered that. Um, way little, when did you first discover, Oh, it’s beyond, it’s about more than just chiropractic care. It’s about selling chiropractic care. It probably would have been in the first couple of weeks when, uh, I was sitting in my office alone. Was it, can you describe how it felt when you were in an office where a, you had probably the chiropractic tables, you had the decor, you’ve got the logo, got the business card and nobody is checking out. No, customers are coming to, to find you in a word. It’s depressing. Um, yeah, it was very sad, uh, time. And, um, a lot of frustration. So how did you, how long did it take you to figure out how to effectively market your business and how to sell something way too long? If you had to guess, how many years or months did it take you?

Um, I would say I struggled along trying to figure that out for about a decade. Really. Yeah. And I think a lot of listeners out there listening right now, there’s probably a podiatrist, probably dentist, probably a doctor, probably a lawyer, probably a contractor. There’s somebody out there listening right now who’s a plumber and you’re really good at plumbing. Chiropracting um, you know, treating patients, uh, being an attorney. But if you can’t sell anything, it doesn’t work. Right. And, uh, Jason, you’ve seen this, you’ve seen, you’ve managed the elephant in the room stores. Yep. Uh, what happens to the people who we’ve hired to work at the front desk who can’t sell anything? When we find people who can sell things? There it is. And if you’re out there and you want to learn, I, I do believe in the human capacity to learn new skills. That’s why I’m doing this show here on a daily basis.

But if you have to learn that there are a fundamental processes, there are fundamental, uh, mechanics. It’s like there’s, there’s moves that work. So just like you can teach almost any child to learn to play the piano if given enough practice and you can teach almost anybody to shoot a free throw if given enough practice, um, you can learn how to effectively sell something. But Orrin was talking to you guys. He was sharing with you that he had a software company that was going well, right? Uh, things were going well, but he couldn’t raise the capital needed because he didn’t know how to pitch anything right now that’s where most entrepreneurs dreams die. They just, if you can’t sell, uh, if you can’t sell well, then your business goes to hell. And that’s where most business owners dot that they die on that Hill of saying, I just don’t know how to sell anything.

But Orin decided, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I’m not going to let my dreams die there. I’m going to actually learn to sell something. And man did he learn how to sell something. This guy learned how to sell and sell so well that he was able to raise over a billion dollars of capital throughout his career. He’s already enough money to have thousands of motorcycles. He’s sold over a million copies of a book teaching you how to sell something. This guy now is the sales machine, but Jason, you’ve worked with a lot of clients, I’m sure. Yeah. What a great people out there who at first before being coached by you had struggled to sell something, right? Can you talk about what happens when you have a great business plan? A great logo, a great staff, a great vision, a great dream, but you can’t sell anything?

What, what happens? Well, it’s like being in a firefight. You could have the biggest gun that has the most accurate sites, the most lethal ammunition. But if you can’t pull the trigger, you’re not gonna win OU negative facts. Now, dr Breck, ah, give it, gives somebody out there some encouragement. Somebody out there who’s listening to today’s show and they’re going, that’s me. No, I actually, I don’t know if this show, are you guys reading my mind right now because I haven’t been able to sell anything in years. There’s a doctor up there listening. There’s a dentist, there’s a lawyer, there’s a chiropractic, there’s a a contractor. What would you say to the contractor, to the business owner, to this person out there listening who just can’t sell anything? Well, first of all, I’d say keep listening. Um, because you can learn a new skill. Um, and for me it was just a, um, almost an innate aversion to selling and then being a dog, there we go. An innate aversion. Yeah. I did not like idea of selling

as a doctor. You feel, uh, you think or feel, I dunno, which is the more proper term, but yeah. That you shouldn’t have to sell yourself that you, you, you know, a lot of doctors will remove themselves from any money exchange and [inaudible] you’re above this. Yeah. Sales are beneath you. Sales are beneath you in a way. Um, but even as a kid, I mean, you know, you had fundraisers and things. I never enjoyed those really. Yeah, I didn’t, I did not know. It wasn’t my thing. And so I wasn’t a natural born salesman. I didn’t come up with ideas and, and uh, you know, get out my friends with, with pancakes I’d made at home or uh, you know, knickknacks that I was ready to sell. Interesting. I was not a natural salesman whatsoever, but you can learn a new skill. And so if you have, uh, an issue of any kind, I mean just like Warren sane, I mean, uh, he had to, to create the performance and the, all the stats and stuff that the venture capitalists wanted at the time.

He had to go and learn that. And you also can learn. So it may not be in sales, it may be in a different area, but definitely there are things that you have to either learn or find the people that you can bring around you in your team that, that have the skills. Jason, have you ever had an aversion to sales? I did. Yeah. Really? Why? It was one of those things where I always thought that I live my life as like, you know, on the path of least resistance and it was just easier. It’s like, Oh man, if I don’t have to worry about conflict, I’ll be fine. Almost almost like a sales passivist. I’ll never forget the Switzerland’s up sales, but what turned me around really quick was when you guys let me know, Hey, this is really important. This is your quota. You have to hit this Mark. And one day where I realized my whole thing was I would ask people, Hey, do you want to buy a membership? And they go, no. And I just go, okay, that was it. And I watched another employee kind of show me how the sales process works, where it’s not like a yes or no thing, it’s a no. Then you answer more questions and then you

closed. If you’re out there looking for the formula, there’s a great book called the a soft selling in a hard world, soft selling in a hard world. I just want to paraphrase, I want to condense and give you the proven process for sales. All right. Step number one is you want to build rapport, build rapport. You want to in script it out, but you want to build report the, the, the process. The formula is R and B, C I. Okay, rapport needs, benefits, close isolate objections, rapport needs, benefits, close isolate objections. So you build a poor, then you find the person’s needs that you deliver the benefits supported by facts. Then you do the call to action. You want to end the conversation with a call to action. And as you bring it to a close or a call to action, you want to move to the next step.

What happens is, is there’s always an objection. So then you isolate the objection. You find out what the real objection is. People might say it’s too much money or it’s they don’t have enough time or they need to talk to their spouse. You isolate what the real concern is and then you come back and you closed the deal. So it’s, it’s rapport needs, benefits, close isolate, objection. Uh, isolate objections. Just yesterday. Um, we’re looking for the new location to move the thrive time show world headquarters as we near the end of the, the lease for this building. And, and I found this, I found the land here. Doctor recommend shop on the show on the screen right now. Yes. Here it is. This is the land. So this is a, this is where it is and it’s four miles from here, uh, at an undisclosed location right over there.

And so we, we, this is where it is and you kind of look here, you kind of, I’m gonna, I’m going to put in the man, I’m sitting in the man on Google maps so you can look and hit at here. Drop it in the man. There it is. So we just kind of looks like almost like a golf course kind of thing. But if we zoom back out there, now look at this. This is what’s beautiful. Look at this with this, this right here. This would be, uh, where the, where the building would be put. And then this back here, that’s where I put my house. I think that’s the move. So it’s like a, like a, like a Disney land of entrepreneurship. Yes. I think that’s the move right there. But I had to cut it. You gotta you gotta kind of pitch it well sure.

And you’re talking to me on stages. You gotta pitch it to Vanessa to the, there we go. So, but you’re pitching is just influencing, right? Right. So you’ve got to one, you’ve gotta pitch, you gotta be able to, you’ve gotta be able to convince the real estate agent that w if you’re buying this property, cause she’s representing a family, right. And if I buy it, I’m not going to turn the property into a a an abomination. And I saw her for the other neighbors cause everybody around there has kind of like a one acre lots, nice houses, lots of trees. And they also have to convince, let’s say you’re wanting to have to buy a house. You’d have to convince maybe a banker to lend you money or you’d have to convince your team. It’s a good decision to move there or convince your spouse.

But you ha sales is just influence. Right? And nobody is better at teaching how to influence than today’s guest. And before we get back into the interview, I want to read a two notable, actually three notable quotables from Oren Klaff. If you’re out there online, just Google search, it’s O, R, E N, Oren Klaff, K L, a F, F, promise book, pitch, anything he says frames our psychological referencing systems that all people use to gain a perspective and irrelevance on issues, frames, influence, judgement frames, change the meaning of human behavior. When you are reacting to the other person, that person owns the frame. When the other person is reacting to what you say, you own the frame. There are limits to the human attention span, which is why a pitch must be brief, concise and interesting. Now, with any further due back to our interview with Oren Klaff,

and so that wounded me that said, I don’t know how to talk to money. So I started looking around and I said, who does? Right? And I, and I hooked up with some South African guys in San Diego. We’re running a small investment bank. And I said, you know, let me clean the windows and wipe the floors and make pitch decks for you, uh, uh, you know, for next to nothing. And they said, sure, why not? You know, we’d love to have an intern. So I’ve got 30 year old intern in an investment bank, but I got the skills and then I got good at raising money and then I got too good. And you get two good. You can actually sell things that you shouldn’t sell, raise money for things that shouldn’t have money, and you have to forget how to use your powers, you know, for good. And anybody are you watching this show? The boys on a Amazon?

I am not watching this show the boys on Amazon, but I probably should be watching the boys educate me about the boys.

Yeah, it’s a superheroes gone bad. Right. Uh, and, and you know, they get the powers and, and power corrupts. And I think it’s the same thing with money. Once you know how to use money and acquire money and pitch for money, you, you have a power. You have to figure out how to use that power. And I spent 10 years trying to figure out, you know, what, what should I raise money for? What is a good purpose for this ability to raise money and sell

dr Breck, is there anything that you’re not willing to sell? Sure. Billy. Yeah. Like what, maybe just give me one thing you’d say I could, but I’m not going to, you’re, you’re a doctor. Give me just one thing you wouldn’t sell. I mean, are you, uh, that you’d go, Nope. Wouldn’t do it. Well, I mean, in chiropractic, uh, we don’t use pharmaceuticals. So for me, that’s, that’s part of my own philosophical, uh, balance point. Why one of the reasons why I didn’t go into medicine, um, was I just think about this, we’ll walk us through, I think there’s people out there that are curious about what is your philosophy towards a medicine as a doctor. So I think there’s a time and a place for all aspects of healthcare and medicine. Um, but, uh, personally, uh, when I was coming to that point where I had to make a decision, uh, philosophically it just, uh, I was a little bit disenfranchised with pharmaceuticals and medicine and how the whole game was played with insurance and the pharmaceutical companies and the doctors that were on the front lines.

And so, uh, I just found myself a little juxtapose to it all. And so, uh, it didn’t, didn’t really work for me. And I find in chiropractic it’s a lot more natural. It’s holistic. Um, really looking at lifestyle and, and things that the patient themselves can do, which about 80% of all diseases that we deal with our lifestyle and choices, 80%. Wow. Wow. See, I have found, and I, I agree with you, although I’m not a doctor, I’ve worked with a lot of doctors and, um, I have a real hard time and I won’t work with doctors that, that pitch these mind altering pharmaceutical drugs as a cure all for everything. Sure. But could you explain from a medical perspective or just from a, just from your ethical perspective or from your, your worldview, why do you not believe in pitching mind-altering pharmaceutical drugs as the cure all for everything? Cause a lot of doctors do believe that, right? Yeah. And I’ve seen this, uh,

personally where a one drug, um, gets researched and uh, it works really well for one thing, but then the pharmaceutical companies are kind of notorious, in my opinion, for a spinning a whole lot of money trying to figure out what that drug can also be used for rather than, you know, actually developing a new drug. Um, and so anti-anxiety or antidepressants are used for, uh, anxiety they use for panic attacks. They’re used for, uh, any number of things where that’s not really their initial purpose, uh, or design. And, uh, they don’t work effectively in that. But as you said, they do alter the way that the, the brain chemistry works. And then, uh, there’s a real cast, a negative cascade that happens there afterwards.

If you’re out there today though, I encourage you to make, make a list of the things you’re not willing to sell, not because, again, people argue about the, a lot of people argue about the, the motivation, uh, or the, the, the manipulative nature of sales or people get upset about that. But before we get into how to sell stuff, let’s write down a list of things we’re not willing to sell. [inaudible] if you’re out there and you were willing to sell some of the things I’m not willing to sell, then that’s fine. But I’m just saying for me, like, I’m not going to sell cigarettes or vaping supplies me personally, neural, I work with clients that do sell those things. Now, you might be a great person out there and you might just think that you want to a, you’re, you’re like the Jumanji a vape.

You’re like the ape of the vein. Whew. You just, you just love to sell. You are like the, you are. I just passionate about vaping supplies. And, and by the way, Jason, have you seen some incredible, uh, vaping supplies? Some of the employees that brought in to some of the stores? They’re nuts. Some of them. I would not feel good putting that up to my face. What kind of stuff have you seen? Like some of them are about the size of, like if Breck and I put our fist together, it’s a box about that big with a little nozzle. While these will beeping lights, we had one guys who’s a, talked to him in a British accent. You turn it on and it’d be like, hello. It was, are you serious? I’m very serious. I don’t know about that. So all I’m saying is you have to make a list of the things you’re not willing to sell.

Cause as Oren points out, once you learn how to sell something, it’s easy. [inaudible] so you’ve gotta figure out what are you going to sell and what are you not going to sell. And I deal with that all the time. We have so many great listeners like you that will reach out to us or they’ll go to thrive time show.com and they’ll watch testimonials and testimonials and testimonials. They as of, um, just about six months ago, we passed over a thousand video testimonials from Thrivers who are implementing the system and having success and they’ll call us. A lot of times they’ll call us and they want to work with our coaching program on a one on one basis. And I’ve got a couple things that I’m willing to do and not willing to do a one I’m not willing to take on more than 160 clients.

People say, well, why? I like to know everybody. I like to meet him at a business conference and say, Hey, and know their name or know their business or I like to have that personal touch. I personally make every business plan right. And you might say clevis. That’s a limiting belief. It is. It is. It’s a very limiting belief. But I don’t want to grow just for the sake of growing. I actually just want to have 160 clients. I’m also, I don’t want to work with people I don’t like because money is a magnifier. And once you teach somebody how to sell well, which is what we do, and if they’re a jerk, Jason, what happens? They invited the jerks or it just makes the whole thing weird. And you’ve seen some these people where you, I’m sure Jason, you’ve seen somebody that had a conference before and you’ve thought, Oh, they’re not a right fit.

Yes. Have you ever had that thought before? I felt bad, but then after I started to learn, okay, well you need to get those type of people out of your life in order to have a good life. I realized that that was fine. But yeah, I know there have been tons of people where you just see them in the back and he’s like, Steven do it. He’s doing that like aggressive nod. Like he’s just waiting for you to stop so he could just attack. There we go. So if you’re out there today, Maaco list of the things that you’re not willing to sell. Cause once you learn the sales systems, once you learn the secret moves, you’re gonna be able to sell anything to anybody if you want to. So be careful. It’s not worth exchanging your soul for money. Uh, and again, I, I think there’s a Bible verse I’m thinking of.

It’s Al. Let me say what good is it to lose your, so let me, let me find it. Let me Thrivers out there. Somebody out there is going, I know that verse. Well that’s great, but it’s a podcast, but I don’t, so there you go. Mark. Uh, eight 36 reads, what good is it for someone to gain the whole world yet forfeit their soul? R Pete, what good is it for someone to gain the whole world yet forfeit their soul? And now without any further ado, back to our interview with the bestselling author or in class


so, so that was the origin story is I didn’t know how to do it. Uh, and, and I really, um, ever since then I’m just committed to finding better and better ways to pitch, convince and close

a lot of our listeners out there. Um, maybe are not familiar with the phrase pitch deck. Could you explain what that, what that means for some of our listeners that just aren’t familiar with that terminology?

Yeah. So you know, pitch that cause the thing you have off the back of your house. Yeah. You will use step out on it. And if you wanna throw a baseball, uh, no. So write that down. Right, right. Then that’s good notes. So anytime I think you ask a bank for a loan, a private equity group to invest in your company, um, relative to invest in you or friend to invest in you. They want to know what’s the plan and a pitch deck basically says, what’s the big idea here? What right? And it’s where you convince people, why does the world need another coffee machine, mouse trap, a good type of mouse, keyboard, SAS software, accounting software, sunglasses, a bottle to hold hot coffee. Why does the world need another one of what you’re thinking about? All right, what’s the plan? Is the plan realistic and how does this look like? Other plans that worked out that the pitch deck is basically the eight, nine page explanation of why this is a good idea, why the world needs it now, how we’re going to succeed, who’s going to do the work and how are we going to make money.

Um, I have read the book, uh, or more of like a brochure almost, but the book, uh, called, uh, pitching hacks, which was written by an evil Ramakant there. And uh, in that book it gives kind of a template on page 55 of all the things you should have, you know, the cover, the summary, who’s on the team, the problem, the solution, ah, technology, marketing, sales, competition, milestone, all that. Do you have a kind of a template that you would direct our listeners to check out? Do you have kind of a one that you, because you’ve made so many of these, do you have one? You say, Hey, go look at that. That’s what a pitch deck should look like.

Yeah. Well, it’s funny. I would go up a level, right? The pitch deck is the unlock code. It’s the key to unlock a money, an agreement, a contract from whoever it is you’re going to pitch.

Dr Breck. A lot of people see your success. Now they go to dr breck.com and they say, wow, this guy is a top chiropractor. Wow, this guy has got a ton of reviews, a ton of patients. He’s helping thousands of people. A, you’re, you’re making money, you’re profitable. And they might look at that and say, wow, but let’s go, let’s go back to the beginning. Did you have to go out and get a small business loan to get started? I actually didn’t get a small business loan. Really get started. Nope. I had saved up money and, um, controversial idea, right?

Um, some of that was student loan money. So, uh, you know, that never goes away. So even if you, um, you know, file bankruptcy or anything else, uh, I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s a good move. Um, because a small business loan, if you do file bankruptcy, it actually goes away. Uh, student loans don’t, and so you’re going to owe that money regardless. Um, but my wife and I were, were married just before I started chiropractic school. Um, we took out a little bit more of the student loan money than we actually absolutely needed, uh, for tuition. Got it. And, uh, we just saved some of that back so that we would have some money to get started.

Now you, um, went to, where’d you go to college yet? I went to Oklahoma state and then I went to Parker university. So I wanna make sure the listeners out there understand how you’ve learned to pitch. And you can correct me if I’m wrong here. Sure. Um, one, uh, you, you say to all of our listeners, uh, many of our, most of our listeners are all over the world. We’ve got, listen right now, you know, South Korea in New York and Florida, or you have a client, Jason in Australia. Oh yeah. Big David big Dave. We’ve got clients in, in a, a Canada, I mean all over the world. Um, but what happens is a lot of people in the Tulsa area, they go, can I hear about this? Dr. Bright guy on the radio? I’ve, I’ve heard that voice, I’m going to give him a try. I’m, I’m a check out his website.

Right. So they go to dr breck.com and there they are and all its and they’d go up there and they go, you know what? What’s the pitch? What’s, what’s the deal? What’s the, what’s the no brainer? What’s the hot offer? And I believe if I’m correct, you offer a free first exam. Yes. And a free x-ray. Correct. And a free adjustment. Correct. Why? Well because we have to make that introduction. We want it to be a no brainer. We want it to be an absolutely ridiculous offer that no one should refuse. I can’t think of why anybody would have reservations of checking that deal out. Right. Cause it’s a dollar. No, it’s free. Yeah, that’s right. You’re cheaper. Elephant the room. It’s a dollar. You’re free. Yeah. My first haircut at elephant, the room was a dollar man. If we’re counting people checking on a dollar and you’re free, it turns out a dollar.

It’s like a lot bigger than $0 million. And it is true. So if you’re out there listening today, I ask you this, how are you going to pitch your thing? What is your, your no brainer, what’s your hot deal? You’re going to offer your customers because if you don’t have that hot deal, that no brainer offer, you’re not going to get the leads. Now in the event that you get the leads, you still have to then explain to people all the benefits that are included in what you’re paying for over there that, that, that business. So Jason, if I’m out there on knocking on the door of the website of the elephant in the room and I’m thinking about coming in the door and coming in and checking out the $1 haircut, what all do I get with that first haircut? Oh man. So you get a complimentary beverage, you get the tailored haircut itself, shampoo and condition, both of the scalp massage, um, essential oil, peppermint scout massage.

Will you do that? Will you do the scalp massage? Cause if so I’m in sometimes. Oh wow. Okay. Keep going. Um, let’s see. Okay. Ah, [inaudible] so you get the, uh, the face moisturizer and then we do a full style. So however you want to do it. What dry look, I know you’re a fan of the wet look. Oh yeah, absolutely. But you also, uh, while you’re going through the process of getting your hair wash, you get the awesome paraffin hand wax. And so that whole experience, it’s like what, 30 minutes of glory for just one book and you, you, again, it’s something where we, we have to pitch it to you and I don’t feel bad about pitching it to you. I don’t feel bad about saying on a daily basis on a radio show that you should check out dr breck.com. I don’t feel bad about saying check out D R B R E C k.com.

Why? Because I know that what he does is of value and it solves a problem for you. And there in lies. The problem is when you can solve a problem for people, you shouldn’t feel bad about trying to convince people to pay you to solve their problem right now. You should feel bad if you’re trying to convince people to pay you for not doing anything, which is why I have a huge, huge moral, ethical issue with people out there who are seeking to make completely passive income without offering anything of value. I see people all the time trying to start a marketing company that’s turned key. Set it and forget it. It doesn’t work. I’ve seen so many people out there trying to start a garden that doesn’t require weeding. I see so many people out there trying to start a family without investing the time with their kids.

I see so many people getting married, wanting to have a passive stress free marriage without investing the time to work through the various issues that will come up over time as your expectations and communication, maybe fail to meet each other’s expectations from time to time. You can’t have a completely passive something. You’ve got to offer something of value in exchange for the money that you seek. So if you’re out there today and you’re trying to pitch something, you have to say, what are the problems that I can solve for the people? What are the problems that I can solve for my current customers? What are other problems that I can still solve for my ideal and likely buyers? If you’re a startup, write down a list right now of all of the things that you can do to solve problems for humanity. Cause people will pay you to solve problems.

I mean dark Breck do you typically push mow your own lawn? I used to, I don’t know that the 37 acres I was looking at yesterday, I was telling operation, I kept telling Aubrey that real estate agents asking us about the property, what we think, and I’m telling Aubrey, I said, Aubrey, I’m gonna have to get you a new push mower. And he’s like, dad, this would take my entire life. And I said, yeah, yeah, but then you did every week. So it’s a Kaizen continual improvement, right? Seriously. If you’re out there and you’re saying, I don’t see, I don’t know what problems I could solve. I know of many successful entrepreneurs that started sincerely started by mowing lawns, right? You knock on the neighbor’s door, Hey neighbor, uh, I’d like to mow your lawn. And the neighbor says, why did he have a company that Mo’s it?

And you say, well, I’ll do it for a half of what they’re charging. Why? Cause you probably make more money per hour than you’re making it. Your current job and the neighbors willing to get a good deal, wants to get a good deal, right? And if you do it cheaper and better, you’re in the game. Now as you get bigger, your costs will rise because you have management and different layers and insurance and all that kind of stuff. But if you don’t know what to do to start a business, if you’re a wantrepreneur out there, just write down the list of the problems that you can solve. And if you have a business, write down a list of the additional problems that you can solve for your ideal and likely buyers. And dr Breck, what did it take for you to get over the hump of feeling bad about pitching something, of trying to sell something? When did you resolve in your mind that, Hey, I am solving a problem for people and I shouldn’t

feel bad about it? I think that was actually the switch was when I wasn’t selling anything when I was just offering them a solution. Um, and that, that solution comes at a cost. And so it wasn’t so much as, it’s not a sales that you’re not a UCL car salesman. You’re not, um, sleazy in any way. It’s just this person has an issue. They have a problem. I have a solution. Um, and, uh, intellectually, energetically, physically, it’s worth value. And so there’s an exchange and, and that was it. You know, it’s just that switch in the mind.

I think though a lot of people, um, even struggle with coming up with a no brainer. Have you ever, have you ever struggled, dr Breck did you struggle with the idea of coming up with a no brainer or was that pretty easy for you right away? Ah, that wasn’t so difficult. No, I mean I think depending on what your market, what, uh, where you’re at in the marketplace, you have to differentiate yourself. You have to stand out. Um, and there’s a lot of noise. And so, uh, to get that initial interaction, um, it makes sense to have a no brainer. You’ve got to, I knew that the quality of our service was high, that uh, we would wow them if we can get them through the door. And so the, the problem, the hurdle that we had to overcome was getting the client through the door.

And so a no brainer, like we offer a does that and then from there we can continue to wow. Uh, Jason, I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but early on in my career, I, I, one of my first jobs was trying to sell a brakes, brakes, like for a car. Yeah. I’ve got, I’ve got audio of, uh, of, of me attempting to sell the brakes. I’m going to queue it up here and I just think, uh, you could maybe, um, tell me where I got this wrong. Cause a lot of the times we get nervous when we’re doing sales. When we first started out in our sales career, it’s easy to get nervous when you, when you go in to pitch something cause you don’t know the system yet. You haven’t scripted out your questions for building report. You haven’t scripted out your questions for a, of finding the needs. You haven’t scripted out your benefits and you haven’t documented the facts that support what you’re saying and you don’t have a good call to action. And if there’s any objections at all, you really don’t know what to do. And so I’m going to queue up some audio of my first early, uh, sales pitches and you can tell me what you think I might may have done wrong during, during this particular pitch. Let me queue it up.

Our new brake pads are really cool. You’re not even going to believe it. Like, um, let’s say you’re driving along the road with your family and you’re driving along and I’ll be like, woo. Then all of a sudden there’s a truck tire in the middle of the road and you hit the brakes. Whoa. That was close. Now let’s see what happens when you’re driving with the other guy’s brake pads. You’re driving a lie. You’re driving a lie and I was done. The kids are yelling from the backseat. I gotta go to the bathroom, daddy truck tire. Hey dad, stop. [inaudible] your family’s screaming. Oh my God, we’re burning a lie. No, I can feel my leg come show me wagon. Nick gets out and says, Oh my God, new guys in the corner puking his top top.

I’ll, because little Tommy will have a couple extra pennies. And I see, I see a lot of people though who are great people in all sincerity. They’re great people. And just, just for clarity, I did not start out selling breaks. I did work at Applebee’s Callahan on the phone, but that’s about how it sounded when I tried to pitch dessert items. But a lot of us just get nervous right away. We get kind of awkward, you know, we’re, we’re not an awkward person, but then we get awkward when we’re trying to do sales and we kinda get into that weird sales mode. Dr Breck, have you ever seen this phenomenon? I have experienced it. Yeah. I feel like I’ve been there. Yeah, it’s now let me, let me go ahead and cube another audio. This is a other audio of me earlier in my career. Uh, I’m trying to sell it. It’s different. Different products. I live in. The MCU it up here.

I like your price. There’s a problem. There’s no guarantee on the box. Heck, if something breaks down, you can call me. Even if I’m home watching TV. Callaghan is guaranteed. Every part sold since 1925 maybe so, but it’s not unlocked. It should always be on the box. Comforting you calling out. I’m good. I’ll never let you down, but if I do, I’m going to make things all better. Our brake pads are made with a non-corrosive poly plate. If you’re not talking about a guarantee, skip it. My customers need to see that little label looking them right in the eye. Hey, you can get a good look at your butcher. What? And then chicken wings, chicken bites. All right. You want to talk about guarantees then? Bella’s, you just ran out of time.

See, what happens is with sales, again, you’re meeting somebody and you have a limited amount of time to make your pitch. So you’ve got to a build rapport with the person B gotta, find the needs, find their needs, find what problems do they have, and then you show how you can solve those problems and then you call them to action. Now when you do the call to action, there will, there will be, there will be an objection of some kind and you have to be prepared to deal with that. You isolate the objection and you call them to action again. And that is how you do it. And other than the further due back to our interview with mr Oren Klaff,


So one of the problems with these templates is, you know, you take a pitching hacks, right? And that template and you go pitch a, a, an angel investor for your whatever, SAS software, you know, dating app for grandmas, that’s going to be a huge hit for Graham, right? Yeah. Uh, and, and, and so, you know, you go, what’s the big idea? What’s the problem? What’s the solution? What traction do you have? What’s the teen composer of who’s the competition? What are you KPIs? Uh, what’s the pro form? Or what is the financial plan? How much money do you need? Why are you asking for that amount of money? How you’re gonna use that money and who and what holes in the team you’re trying to fill and what the timeline is, right? So that’s the basic format. Uh, you know, I’m not even looking at it, but I’m just guessing that’s what that book would have in it.

So, so that’s the unlock code for a early stage investor. But too much of the world is focused on that first a hundred thousand dollars at first 500,000 was at first $1 million. That’s nothing, right? There’s, there’s, um, a million, a million, you know, dozens of other kinds of deals that need to be done. So, so if that’s the unlock code for a little bit of money, uh, you take that same pitch, right? And you wanna now you gotta, you’ve got $500,000 from an investor. Now you want to go lease a facility, right? Um, in downtown Los Angeles, downtown San Francisco, downtown Boston, whatever. You know, what a place that could do the work and you know, have your, the people that you’re hiring feel comfortable and your customers come in and, and a, you know, place to work with them. And so the landlord goes, Hey, submit your application.

And you give them the same pitch, right? And they go, vision, mission, big idea, uh, plan. Like what is, we don’t care about any of this stuff. So the point is, the pitch that worked for the early stage investors is nonsensical to a landlord turned to lease you some space and you go, okay, I’m certainly figure this game out. I just gotta fill, you know, fill out the application. We will need a big idea to rent a facility. We just need cash in the bank. Do we have, and then you go, okay, uh, you know, we’re doing some important work here on this dating app for grandmas and poker and hamsters or whatever it is. And, uh, and, uh, the national Institute of health has a grant in the area that you’re working in, right? And so you go, you go take your pitch deck, your pitch that got you $500,000 and the piece of the gut, you, Elise and you, you know, you’re busy.

So you pull all those pieces together and you submit it to the national Institute of health and they go, what balance sheet, big idea, uh, holes in the management team, pro forma plan. Like, Oh, what is this? We do science here, right? So a pitch deck is the things that the buyer needs to know in order to buy what you have. Maybe I, you know, pitch anything was all about, uh, in some ways you can think about it is giving people the information they need in the order that they need it in the amount of detail they can absorb in a way that keeps them interested so they pay attention and never get distracted. And then some things to do at the close, right. As you know from, from listening to reading the book, people want what? They can’t have people chase that which moves away from them and people only value that which they pay for.

People want what? They can’t have people chase that which moves away from them and people only value that which we pay for. People want what? They can’t have people chase that which moves away from them and people only value that which we pay for. People want what? They can’t have people chase that which moves away from them and people only value that we see pay for

is this hand shot? Would you like some more chicken? So really whatever’s in the pitch deck that the buyer needs, the paradox of pitching is that the moment you offer somebody your deal, what it is you have your product, your service, your idea, the moment you offer it to them, they don’t want it anymore. People want what they can’t have. So how do you offer something to someone without in fact offering it at all? And that is the thin red line that goes through the middle of every important deal that’s ever been done. Offering somebody something important, valuable, desirable, uh, in a way that they’re not even sure if they can get, but they know they want it. So that’s what pitch anything to me was all about.

All right, let’s get back into real estate for a second. We’re looking at a lot of properties and just to make this real and to give you some examples is we’re looking at properties, a lot of them and any time that I express any positive interest in any property. Right. What do you think dr Breck that the real estate agents have been doing most of the time? Most of the time, whenever I express any interest at all in the property. What do you think the skilled real estate agents are doing? Well, you know, we’ve got three other buyers right behind you. And it’s a delicate dance because they’ll say, well, Hey, there’s already an offer, but this property has been listed for a long time and it might not sell for years. Or I mean, just last week I sold a property, had been listed for just a month and boom, a buyer.

I mean, that’s how land deals work. I mean, it might happen, they might not, I mean, this time of year you think about, if you think about, you know, typically the way the real estate agents have noticed that, that home buyers are really buying this time of the year, right? The home buyer during the, during the night, during the summer. But with land now, land is a tricky thing because when people go back to school, right? That’s when people buy land of course. And this is the time and right. And so I’m not saying that you have a fulfilling pressure. I don’t want you to feel any pressure. Right. Um, but I do want you to know, just full disclosure that I have sold a piece of land last week that had been listed for years. Well then, uh, so I just want you to know, no, I’m not saying you know it.

Is that right? Ryan isn’t, I don’t want you to, I mean if you like it, I don’t want you to lose it. But the moment put the person puts like hardcore sales breath. Like they’d say, here’s the deal, this land, we have three buyers right now and if you don’t decide right now, the deals off the moment you put that kind of pressure on somebody, it’s too much, too much. It’s, it’s a balance though. Cause people want what they can’t have for that. And I mean that right there, that was some great knowledge bombs right there. And Jason, I mean, think about that elephant in the room. It’s like we want to give people a great experience, right? Yup. And legitimately we could accommodate approximately 4,000 members and we explain legitimately why that’s about our peak threshold for that, for those particular three stores. That’s about as many chairs as we can fit in each shop and as many employees we can staff to take care of them.

And so on top of that though, like his, his, uh, first point is people want what they can’t have, you know, when our membership numbers are low, which most of the time the customers don’t know that. But when they were like right before that, like 3000 period, we had a lot more people who were like, Hmm, let me think about it. Let me go home with 4,000 members. It just feels busy. And you’re like, I mean, the biggest issue we have now, the number one reason for cancellation elephant in the room right now is what can’t get in. They can’t get in for a haircut. Our members, we can only accommodate 4,000 members. And if you don’t pre-book your next haircut, I mean, you might not be able to get in. I’ve experienced because we’re booked out all the time. And that is a thing.

So again, dr Breck, what’s the balance there? Because you don’t want to put too much pressure on people, right? But you gotta put, you gotta let them know that as a chiropractor, what’s the most numbers of patients that you guys can accommodate over there in a given day? Well, currently we’re seeing about 65. 70 week you’d see probably about 80 in a day, but that’s about the most. That’s about the most. And people come in there and they get the impression you’re busy. Yeah, because you are busy, right? I mean, yeah, it’s a, it’s a good problem, but it’s a problem when we’re standing room only. Um, and we’re doing our best to accommodate everybody that’s come through the door. But we also, you know, have people who are trying to book first-time appointments and they have to wait a couple of weeks. Um, you know, if you’re hurting, that’s a problem.

I would encourage you to put or in class book to work, put it to work and take the time needed today to script out your five rapport building questions, script out your five needs, finding questions, the problems you can solve, find those five. Write down those five questions to find the needs run. Script out your three to five benefits, how you solve problems and make sure you script out the facts that support what you’re saying. Dr Breck, why, why should we take the time needed to script out the rapport building questions, the needs, building questions, the actual benefits and the call to action quotes as well as the FAQ is the frequently asked questions. Why is that important? Well, I love scripts. Um, to me a script is just the ideal answer to a, a situation that you know is inevitably going to come up.

Yup. And so if you don’t have it scripted, you’re gonna shoot from the hip and miss points, um, that you would’ve wanted to say. As soon as that conversation is over, you’re going to regret and you’ll go back and say, Oh, I wish I had said this. I wish I would have done that. And a script is just an opportunity to, uh, do that in advance. And that way you don’t miss those things and you don’t have regrets when the conversation’s over. Um, and you can do that with so many different aspects, but uh, yeah, you’re more likely to, uh, operate in your ideal situation if you’ve already pregames preplanned and uh, and work through it. Uh, even role-played it. And now if any further due back to our interview with Oren Klaff in the book, there are so many knowledge bombs there. But what I wanted to do is I wanted you to maybe see if you can tee off on one idea that broke my mind. You were talking about frame control in the book and it’s just, you’re a good writer. I’m just a slow

reader side, like listen to it a couple times. Could you try to explain to our listeners what frame control is all about, just as a kind of a teaser of the kinds of knowledge bombs they can find in that book? Yeah, I mean, one example I might use is, you know, you walk into, we’ve all done this, you go to meet some friends downtown wherever you are and you walk into the restaurant where you’re supposed to meet and there is a cacophony of noise. There’s waiters,

bartenders are the bargaining growing. They got TVs playing under some trap, boys in high, you know, high fiving in the corner. And there’s a family, you know, having a family reunion and there’s couples, you know, tables in the middle D walks out and there’s music playing and it’s just an overwhelming stimulus. Your friends are right there, 15 feet in front of you. They’re waving her hands at you, right? And you’re scanning the restaurant that, you know, looking for them, you can’t see in their waving their hands at you. And then finally they have to dispatch and it, uh, you know, someone to come and shake. You go right over here and Oh, now you now you can see them. I think

that’s the good metaphor, uh, that we think about for framing. Most people come into a situation with you, they step in and that’s what’s going on. There’s too much information, there’s too much noise, it’s too loud and too many different, different directions. And they can’t pick out the important information out of the scene, out of the interaction with you. And, and the reality is, even if it’s just you and them in a conference room, on a Skype, on a phone call, it’s a similar situation. So you have to frame reality, you have to put a box around it that limits many, many, many pieces of information excludes them. So, and it highlights just what they need to know, right? So everybody comes to a situation with a frame. You walk in that restaurant with a giant frame, you’re looking at everything, right? Uh, uh, your, you know, your friends that you’re, their frame looking for you is just the front door.

It’s very small and she walking in no problem. Right? Uh, and so frames are things that interact. They come together when, when I want to sell someone a million dollar deal, right? They bring a perspective. That’s their frame, an idea, values, money, situation needs, personal comfort, things that’s going on in their personal lives and they’re going there. So all of that is their frame and how this should work. And your bringing your values, your ideas, your money, your comforts, your just comforts of your goals and things you’re striving to for your frustrations. And these frames don’t match up, right? It’s not like a, uh, there’s a perfect match, like a child’s toy. So these frames come and they, they bang together, right? And they, they crash into each other. And that’s why deals take days, weeks, months, years to come together because the frames aren’t aligned.

People aren’t seeing it the same way you want to see, you see a deal done in like 10 seconds. You know, guy walks up to a soda machine, wants a bottle of water, right? Oh, water’s a dollar. I have a dollar frames, collide, interact, match up perfectly, puts a dollar in, water comes out, boom. That was easy. Right now you raise it above a bottle of water and a dollar to two people trying to do a $20,000 deal, $50,000, a million dollar deal, whatever it is. Now the frames are very complicated and they crash into each other and they don’t fit. So the art of selling is getting someone to see the deal

through your lens, to adapt their frame

to yours and this. And so, so that’s what framing is.

Um, how much money have you helped you? How much money have you raised throughout your career? If you had to estimate? Yeah, I mean, bill boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, billions. He just said billions. Billions. Would Bubba be billions? I liked it. He started though with the, I mean, I mean it’s like no big deal if you’re out there struggling to sell anything. It’s like, like the great a philosopher, American poet, musician Michael Jackson said, you are not alone. There are many, many people out there that struggle to sale, sell and to sell. Well, I think in fact the majority of the people struggle to sell well. I’ve met so many top entrepreneurs who told me that the big change in their life that happened with our business coaching program was learning how to sell something. Dr Brooke, there’s gotta be somebody out there listening right now who’s like, I just, I don’t want to pressure people. I don’t want to put any pressure and I just don’t want to ask for the sick. What would you say to somebody out there who’s a good person, but they’re having a little pushback about selling something? Uh, I would honestly

say, ah, that’s going to be more of an issue of your passion for what you are offering. Um, you know, if, if you’ve got the solution, you don’t have to really sell it. I mean, you just, uh, as Orin saying, I mean, you’ve got to match up the frames, uh, to allow the other party to see, you know, the value in what you’re bringing to the table. Um, and then it’s just an exchange of energy. Money’s just a different energy. Um, you know, you’re bringing, maybe it’s intellect or it’s a certain skillset or, um, you know, maybe if you’re a plumber, you’ve got the, this fix for the broken pipe. You’ve got to move, you’ve got the move. And so, uh, you know, they’ve got the money, you exchange the move for the money and it’s their, their money. Yeah. I mean their money is worth your move. Your move is worth their money. And so it becomes less of a pressure thing. It becomes less awkward. Um, it’s more matter of fact. Jason, what advice would you have for somebody out there who’s

struggling to get over the mental hump of selling something? Cause I see a lot of people just struggling to sell something. They mentally, it’s like, it’s a huge a, I don’t know what it is. It’s like a huge mental block. Yeah. We’ll take it from the guy who used to get a bonus based off of selling my paycheck and my wallet depended on it. So for the sake of the contents of your wallet, get comfortable with sales. I mean, it’s just, it’s that simple. If you’re not comfortable sales, you’re not going to be able to grow your business. And why are you in business in the first place?

Sure. Madell dedicated this songD and Jason and sell something. Oh, sales software sales something. Here we go. Jason sales Taunton.

Seriously, you, Jason, if you’re out there, you got to sell something. You have to what have, you don’t want to though. What happens dark and Brenda remove that personal rejection of it. They met saying no to you as a human being. It may not be the right time. It may not be the right price. Your move may not be worth that money. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean if you priced it right then it is and you’re going to get nos. I mean knows happen and you’ve got to get comfortable with them. No, I, I think you just hit on something that needed to be said here. Let me, let me queue it up here. Sam. No good.

They say, get outta your kid. You got no future. I mean, I just don’t think I could take that kind of rejection.

I think there’s somebody out there that saying that and their inner dialogue, like I just can’t handle that kind of rejection. Right? So I’m going to take this conversation to a different place and hopefully a place where, um, you as the, as listener can receive this. I believe, I believe that nobody out there whether you were born intentionally. Okay, so let’s say that you were born unintentionally or intentionally. What? What do I mean by that? I mean, let’s say you have no idea who your dad was, your dad and your mom. They met, they produced a baby in the backseat of a Winnebago and they produced the baby in the, in the, uh, on the back of a Honda. They produced a baby at a park, at a concert, and you don’t know who your dad is or you don’t know who your mom is.

Either way. I believe that everybody out there was created by God and there’s nobody out there who’s an accident. Therefore, I believe that you are somebody who has value. I do fundamentally believe that. Therefore, whether I reject you and your idea or accept your idea, whether I buy from you or don’t, I cannot diminish the value that you have or add to the value in my opinion. I believe your value, your value comes from knowing that you are intentionally designed, that whoever made this planet and made you didn’t do it randomly. So my whole mindset when I go into sales is that I don’t care if you reject me or receive what I miss at what I have to say because I don’t get my self esteem from you. Right? I don’t get my self esteem from my wife. I don’t get my self esteem from my pastor.

I don’t kick myself esteem from how much money I have in the bank. Cause there’s times I’ve had a lot times, I’ve had very little times, I’ve had no money times I’ve had a ton of money. And at the end of the day, when I go home and put my head to bed, all, all I can, all I can, all I need is the air I breathe, right? That’s all I need. And as long as I’m above the ground, it’s profound. But I’m not gonna sit there and lament about the last rejection I had and the people who are the most successful. This is crazy. They actually have the most rejections soap. You think about this podcast and the fact that we actually booked Oren Klaff on the show, right? You might go, wow, that’s amazing. No, no, no, no, no, no. What’s amazing is how many times people like Oren Klaff have told me, no.

Thrive nation. Literally, we have had thousands and thousands of top level entrepreneurs and success stories. Tell me no, and when I hear the word no, this is what I hear. I’d like some more information. Oh, you want some more information so when you say, I’m definitely not interested. No, I hear is there any way you could give me some more information? Just a little more and I’m like, Oh, okay. I view no as request for additional information and I will call you until you cry by or die because I do not care about my feelings more than I care about my goals. See that is that right there. That’s something that somebody needs to hear because somebody out there that’s a notable quote. This is somebody out there. This is what you’re thinking right now. This is what you’re saying to your wife when you go out to sell something today or this is what you’re saying to your husband or to your girlfriend, your boyfriend.

This is what you’re saying to either to, to to people around you or you’re saying internally, your inner dialogue is saying this. I mean, what if they say I’m no good? What if they say get outta your kid? You got no future. I mean, what if they say that? So what? So what? What if they say no? What if they say they’re going to say no? You’ve got to get a hundred nos to get it. Yes. You’ve got to get a hundred nos to get a yes. A hundred nos equals yes. It takes a hundred no’s to equal a yes and that is how you achieve success. Somebody should write that down. It’s a hundred nos equals a yes and that is how you achieve success. That’s how you do it. There’s no other way. This ridiculousness to think that you and your beautiful new idea in your beautiful business that your beautiful packaging is going to somehow be so good that you don’t need to sell it really, really?

Okay. Henry Ford lost it all. How many times? Five times. He went bankrupt five times. Walt Disney, Walt Disney lost it all twice. Thomas Edison tried to invent a functional light bulb, 10,000 times, 10,000 experiments as team logged. Do you realize how many rejections that is? Look up the Dyson vacuum guy, that guy who took him over a decade to figure it out. The homeboys who are running ESPN took them over a decade to make a profit. Fred Smith who started a FedEx, it took him over a decade. Look up their stories, quit celebrating when they get across the finish line and look at the messy middle. Look at the crap they had to go through to get to where they are and it’s always rejection and I, and I’m telling you by default, I don’t know people. I don’t run into the average person who deals well with rejection. Why? Because you think it somehow diminishes your value and you put your value and what other people say about you.

Jason, you just finished reading the book, the subtle art of not giving up. Boop. Tell us about the core message in the subtle art of not giving up a great book. By the way. It’s an amazing book, but the core messages, you only have a certain amount of, let’s call them F’s that you can give feelings, feelings. Yeah. You have a certain amount of feelings that you can give to everything that comes your way in one day. And it helped me because I realized I was trying to allocate my feelings well above their capacity and I was not being productive, I was not happy. And then now I realize I have certain things that my life benefits from by focusing feelings on those and then everything else, I just forget it and I’m just Zinn. The rest of the day been about getting rejected. I’m not going to sit there and allow mat.

Right? If I get no feelings given as an example, I have tried to interview somebody should look this up. I’ve tried to interview bill Belichick many times. The coach of the new of the new England Patriots and his personal assistant, his chief of staff, his right hand man is Burj Najarian, B E R J [inaudible] and Berge has rejected me. I can’t even tell you how many times. Right. So much so that I decided to do a show devoted to birds and [inaudible] and his genius and now I come up top and Google. When you search for first Najarian, have I shown you that dr Mark? Yeah. So I mean, but again it doesn’t bother me. I think it’s kind of funny, right brick cause you’re just one step closer, right? You’re going to meet the man. I view rejection as a stepping stone to my future success. It’s like each rejection, I’m like, Oh I’m getting closer.

If I told you how I, how I convinced my wife to marry me. No, I don’t think I actually is impressive. So I propose and typically when you propose and you get to know typically doesn’t work out right. I proposed and it was kind of reluctant like she needed more information deep. Right? And she’s like, well I don’t know. I mean we’ve got to finish college and, and I’m like she needs more information. And I worked for like a semester or probably probably a month trying to convince her that I had the finances to do it. She wouldn’t have to drop out of school to do it. She could continue college if we got married that I was the right fit, that I had a plan and I was a disc jockey, so it was, it was a tough sell. I was a lot, a lot of selling was needed there.

I’ve met Vanessa, she’s she, you married, you upsold, you definitely did. I just kicked your code. I’ll kick the coverage folks. But again, there’s somebody out there in your mind and you’re saying, click, can we move on? No, because if you’re out there unable to move past rejection, you’re never going to win. Quit saying this. I mean, what if they say I’m no good? What if they say, get outta here kid. You got no future. I mean, I just don’t think I can take that kind of rejection. Yeah, that’s what people say all the time, and I just want to ask you out there, why are you letting your feelings of rejection get in the way and stand in the way of you achieving your ultimate success? This is your year to be your best, but you’ve got to get a hundred nos to get that.

Yes. Because that is what will lead to your ultimate success. And Oh, by the way, you’re father-in-law, but like your business idea guaranteed. Oh, by the way, if he does like it, your mother-in-law won’t. Yup. Oh, by the way, if they both like it, a customer won’t like your logo. Oh, by the way, if the customer likes your logo and the parents are on board, your brother will be mad that you didn’t hire him. And Oh, by the way, if all those people are all copacetic and things are koombaya, then your competitor is going to be pissed. And if, by the way, if your competitor’s not pissed, then you’re losing. Yeah. If you’re not upset and some competitors, you’re not doing something right, but if you’re up just fearing rejection at all times, you can’t win as a business owner. So get off the freaking field.

If you can’t resolve that in your mind that you can push through rejection. You’ve got to, you gotta deal with this entrepreneurial infection cause you’re having like this entrepreneurial seizure right now where you think you’d want to be self employed, but you can’t handle it if you can’t handle rejection, Oh I want to be an entrepreneur. I want to watch this Ty Lopez video about yachts. Of course you want a yacht. Unless you’re mentally damaged, your brain damaged, you’re going to want a nice car or a nice house. Of course, wanting success is so much different. It’s very different than being willing to do what it takes to have success. If you see a video that talks about, it’s usually a guy with a British accent who’s on the YouTube channel and its backyard as a waterfall and he says, hello there. Are you finding yourself looking right now in a dead end job?

Do you want to have success in passive income? Do you just merely six months ago I was saving away at a job and now I am self-employed and enjoying every minute of my passive income. Click here. Click here to learn my simple system, my secrets for success at my upcoming seminar. Click here to then success. No, don’t click here. Get this start here book. You can download the start here book. It’s like a 500 page book. You can download it for free. Read the things in the book for free. By the way, you can go to the thrive time show.com go to thrive time show.com and download the start here, book for free, and then also download search engine domination for free. Download the book. It’s a go to thrive time. show.com. Download the book, get the book, download it for free, and then implement everything in it.

Implementation is the hard part. You see, ideas are easy, but it’s implementation. That’s hard and why is it hard? Because you’re going to have to make your employees actually do their freaking job. And doctor [inaudible], doctor brick, it turns out sometimes employees don’t want to do their job. Why? Well, the employees, they don’t look at it. But what if, but what if I have to manage my staff today and I feel rejection? What’s going to happen? What if I fear rejection? If you fear it, yeah, you’re not going to be very productive at all. You’re not going to have a good day. They’re going to eat you. I mean, you’ve, you’ve got to be the boss. You’ve got to get over this fear of rejection. And now that any further into the back to our interview with w, we looked at it, we took God, God, I did this for a living, our interview with Oren Klaff.

Uh, I mean if we take all the people that said, Hey, uh, you know, thanks for the training. Um, thanks for the instruction. We just went out and raised money. I mean, I’ve, I’ve worked on some deals that are multibillion dollar deals alone, but I’ve looked in the whites of the eyes of investors. And, and three, four, $500 million, gotten them to wire, send a check, uh, uh, send over. And so quite an extensive amount of, of dealing with money.

So you, uh, you’ve written a book that’s done very well. You have a massive collection of motorcycles. What inspired you to write this, this new book? Flip the script. Why aren’t you just riding motorcycles all day? Why aren’t you just, uh, you know, looking at, uh, trophies that you’ve gotten yourself or, or achievements you’ve done in the past? Why, why have you decided to move forward and to write another book? This new book? Flip the script.

That is the question of all time. You know, we live by the beach here in Southern California, drive around in this stupid Lamborghini, got motorcycles. I got a little boy, five years old, and I’m late in life with a five-year-old, you know, walk to the beach. Why can’t I just leave well enough alone, right? Uh, I don’t know. You know, it’s, it’s w my, I’ve got an agent and she pesters me. Can you write a new book? Well, and then ultimately, here’s why things have changed dramatically. Uh, there in the world today, we’re so reliant on tech in the sales environment, right? Think of the thousands of companies that have, uh, CRMs and marketing management and um, a funnel management and funnel hacking and Zapier and, um, uh, API APIs for, you know, marketing and website integration. Right? I mean, any little tiny thing that you, new web forms that anything that’s in the marketing funnel has been automated and has some technology underneath it. The irony is once you get a lead, you know, and so the click to buy, it’s on a $2,500 purchase. It sorta gets up into $5,000 $25,000. Right? You’ve got to talk to someone, get in a room with them.

Get out of here. Yeah, talk to people. Don’t pee. No, no. We want to click funnel. Click. Yeah. Talk to people.

Right? So is it once it’s out of the click funnel and somebody goes, you know what, I haven’t questioned. It looks good, but you know, $50,000 I got a couple of questions. Oh. Then the irony is there’s no technology, any, any technology at all, we’ll make it worse. Right? Oh, my presentation is just trying to load. I can’t get Skype to turn on, you know, Dropbox didn’t devs move the file. Any technology preach at the point of I would like to talk to you about this deal makes things worse. And so we’re so dependent on technology and, you know, lead management leads are abundant and conversion is dropping and dropping and drop. You know, human to human conversion is, people don’t understand it today and it, and it has changed, right? Because buyers, uh, have been, you know, by Amazon, uh, gamified that the moment you tell them what all the features are, what all the benefits are and what the price is, and they go, Hey, thanks a lot.

Uh, really appreciate it. There’s something we’re very interested in. If you could just send over the deck, can send over the proposal. If we have an additional questions, uh, we’ll check back with you in a week or two. You don’t have to show this to my partner, the management committee, the board of directors, the, uh, Shamu, the whale, and Sasquatch, we have tied up, out, back and he reviews all of our deals before we send them off. And so there’s this, uh, sense of people that whatever it is you have, yep. Can be a coupon code, exist for it or can be gone for less from another firm or it could be had for free, but they’re  sure not gonna buy it from you until they’ve tried the system, you know, to get it to find it somewhere else or you know, to find some information about you, which allows them to lever you into a lower position.

That’s how buyers behave today. You didn’t understand that. I’ll explain it like this. Uh, I’ve been increasing my running volume, you know, some up to more than 20 hours, a a 20 miles a week, 22, 23 miles. And I’m also at CrossFit. I’m also riding a bicycle and I’m also Methuselah, you know, older than anybody who could be possibly listening to this. So, so I need some equipment for recovery. And there’s this thing called NormaTec you, do you know what these things are? Norma tech. Yeah. Is that a, a sky vodka product? Yeah. No, it’s also these compression recovery, uh, units put your legs in them and they, they compress with airbags in a certain sequence that’s supposed to, you know, read, revitalize, um, your, your equipment and your legs. You’re looking good by the way. You’re looking at going, look at you right now in your, your face looks revitalized.

I don’t see a lot of leg shots here, but your head shots look incredible. Thank you. I’m sorry. At this point I had a lot so, so I’m in good shape. And so I saw I needed apparent norm attacks. So I go to normatec.com and they’re 2,500 bucks and go, okay. You know, I need them, I can afford them. My coach told me to get them, but I go hop over to Amazon cause I’m trying to do that on Amazon. They’re 2300 bucks. Okay. All right. And let me get them from Amazon. Them Amazon prime. I’ll get them in two days. Oh wait, let me just hop over to eBay. Cause you know, when you, when you buy a motorcycles, you’re eBay proficient cause you need parts and stuff so that, you know, it’s only available. Uh, so, so on eBay, sure enough use twice, right?

2100 bucks. Oh I go from 2,500 bucks to 2100 just buy, you know, in 60 seconds or less. Yeah. Okay. I’ll just get them from eBay. I won’t get them tomorrow, but I don’t need them tomorrow. You know what, let me just check Craigslist. Yep, sure. As hell. $1,900 used three times not doing triathlons anymore. Come get them. Come on. So, so you’re rewarded. The buyer is rewarded for, in essence, looking for a product, a service, finding out he can get it and saying that’s an option. Now I’m going to stall that option. Tell him, you know, Hey, it’s basically, go ahead. I just got to check with the committee and then they’re going to go out and look for cheaper, better free there. They can’t find it. And then they come back, negotiate you a little bit better. Uh, and, and you know, they get smart. So buyers are incredibly smart. They gamified the system and sellers don’t have tools to deal with today’s kind of buyer. And that motivated me to help people out.

So if I buy this book, flip the script, and Warren, I just want to make sure the listeners out there another kind of, definitely you kind of financial sacrifice they’re going to have to make to buy this book. So I’m going on Amazon right now. Yeah, it’s kind of rude to be typing while doing a show, but I’m just, I’m going to look it up. You’re Andrew, look it up. We’re going to look up the book here. I’ll flip through the script. I’m looking for the book. I see the book and I noticed that if I were to buy the book right now, I would have to part with $22 and 19 cents. Now it’s a big shot author. Um, correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re going to get maybe what, 15% of that? Maybe 10% get a buck. I’m going to get a buck.

Okay. This is I, I call, I call this, this is a new thing I’m doing. It’s called support, a starving, very successful author and for as little as $1 a day, all the listeners, if we all do at $1 a day, we can support you so you can buy another Lamborghini and I’m trying to help you raise that money. So I want to make sure the listeners check this out cause this is going to require a sacrifice there and I can’t go buy a regrettable burrito. I can’t buy 17 energy drinks. I shouldn’t have, I can’t watch half of a bunch of Netflix films or I’m going to have to sacrifice to get this book that could change my life because your book pitch anything. I mean that book, that book changed the way I view presentations. And what year did that book come out by the way?

Yeah, so that was 2009 2010 dude, you’re starving us, man. This is a 10 years of the coming here I 10 years this book. We’ve been waiting on it for 10 years. So the listeners out there, some of the listeners are out there and going, Hey, I’m on, I’m on a budget. I can only buy one or two regrettable caffeinated beverages at a gas station per week. Now, if I’m going to, you know, cut back the budget to buy this book. So tell us, what can we find in this book and why should we all sacrifice the money needed to buy this book? Yeah. If you’d like to catch anything, this book is going to blow you up,

back in your socks. Uh, it


I think [inaudible] showed you what was possible that you could walk into a room of a bank and investment firm, uh, a potential huge client, a client that was going to make your year, no matter what size the deal was. Okay. And you could say, Hey guys, uh, it’s 10 o’clock. I think we agreed to kick I actually 10 Oh three. If you’re ready, why don’t we get this thing kicked off under? You’re waiting for a couple of people that, let’s get started. We’ll let them catch up. So we’ve been working pretty hard, uh, to get on each other’s calendar. I don’t know if we’re smart or if we’re just lucky, but we’re super busy this time of year. I know you’re a busy too. We got a little bit of time together before you have to get back to the coal mine. We had to get back to work as well.

I’ve prepared about a 15 minute presentation. I’m gonna take you through it and then we want to hear a little bit about you because as much as you’re evaluating us and trying to figure out have we solved your kind of problem before, are we good at it? What are our credentials? You know, what are our ideas look like? Where, what’s our pricing model? As much as you need to know those things, we need to know things about you. We like you wouldn’t have come here and prepared to meet with you and we’re excited to do business with you. On the other hand, we see some things that are red flags that we want to spend some time clearing up before we would ever take you on board. So we’ve got some work here to do today. Let’s kick it off. Uh, does anybody need fluids in or out?

If not, let’s get started. So that was hot. You, you, you, you mean you’re going to tell somebody who you’re, who you are pitching to that you have some potential red flags about them. Uh, if you don’t, you’re lost, right? Cause otherwise your obsequious your, your clothing, you know, you’re supplicating you are um, you know, mollifying you are trying to impress your needy, right? And if you don’t do that, you just come across as needy and worse. Uh, the, the buyers will just say, Hey, I’ve seen this before, right? This um, and, and the, if you’re needy and you come across as meeting their business, you know, a couple of things happen, they start to have power over you. And that’s so pitch. Anything showed you that you could do this, that these frames exist. Power frames, right? And how to deal with the power frames and showing you that you don’t have to walk in and say, thank you so much.

We really appreciate you seeing us. I’m very excited to be here today. Uh, you know, if you need, if you, uh, uh, we’re going to give you a presentation, if you have any questions, feel free to interrupt, uh, you know, at any time and happy to answer them very, you know, you’ll find that we have the best customer service. You know, we try the hardest if we, if we are able to get a deal done, if I were the best firm and we’ll work the hardest because the customer is always right. When you say that stuff, it encourages the buyer, uh, to think of themselves as powerful. Right? As the, the most important party in that room, in that meeting. That’s what pitch anything show, right? The buyer isn’t the most important part of the EU are the most important. What does the buyer have?

They have a commodity money. You get money anywhere, right? With a buyer has a problem and you solve that. We can, even if it’s an investment, right? You saw the problem is they have to get money out, right? Or that it just sits there, you know, doing, doing nothing. Uh, so you’re the best at what you do. You’re the most, uh, um, you work the hardest at it. Yep. You’re the most honest, ethical, forthright. You invest the most. Um, you, you have done this, uh, you, you, you’ve come to the seller’s office or come to a Skype and meeting with them cause you know you can solve their problem and you’re dedicated. Nobody else is as dedicated to this specific problem as you are. They need you. Right? So lots of times I will say, and, and the better you are at pitch anything and the better you are at flip the script, you, the more honest you can become.

I will say to buyers, listen, I’m sorry we got sideways here. I don’t know what happened. Let me clear this up in order to do business with us, right? You have this problem. We don’t have it. You have the problem like, right? So in order to get this problem fixed, and we’re probably the best people to fix it for you, you have to take money out of your account and put it in our account. That’s the only way it works. So, I don’t know why you’re saying these things, but I’m totally confused. We don’t have another way of doing business where we become partners with you or, or you know, whatever. So does that make sense?

You’re establishing a timeline of when you’re going to be done. When you’re pitching. I love that you know that you’re, you’re letting them know, Hey, I’ve got 15 minutes or whatever. I love that. I love that you bring up that you have some red flag concerns. Your book does it your, your, your books plural really do flip the script there in entirely different way too. That’s why I was listening to your book multiple times while I was in Dallas. I just kept listening to it going, what is he saying? And it seems so counterintuitive that it must be wrong. And I have, I have a question for you about this because I have now discovered that it is right. But I want to ask you, this is not a political show, but I want to get your take on this. Do you remember the debates when Trump was debating with like Ben Carson and Jeb Bush? You remember that?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I was personally wanting to vote. I was behind Ben Carson, that was my guy. And Ben’s a smart guy. You know, cardiologist knows this thing. And I remember when Trump started off the debate by thanking him for being awake. I don’t know if you remember that. Do you remember that? Yeah,

yeah. Yeah.

And I said he’s breaking his frame. He’s doing the orange. That was absolutely frame

control and those guys didn’t know how to respond. And so that’s why you have to get started with pitching anything. So I’ll teach you that. The number one frame breaker. Oh dude, you can just use, so, uh, so look, when you have a call, conference call with clients, uh, you know, on a small client, big client, I’m calls with, uh, you know, a hundred million dollar guys, $500 million companies all the time, they will always come late, right? Cause they’re busy and yeah, you know, you’re pitching and is lucky to get the new a call, but they, you know, they never dial in at 10:00 AM right. And so the dial in at 10 Oh three or 10 Oh five or 10 Oh six, if it’s 10 Oh nine, we leave. Right. I mean that’s an important lesson in frame control. You cannot be sitting on a conference line for 10 minutes and then let the buyer or the prospect dial in knowing that you’ve sat there twiddling your thumbs, that you know, they will absolutely be in a power position over you and it won’t work.

There’s nobody would do it and won’t do it in Silicon Valley. You know, some of my opinion, it’s not power plays it. You just won’t have a deal in Silicon Valley. You’re five minutes late, you’re gone. You know that calls rescheduled or never for sure. You know, they beat to the drum of a German ticking clock. But, but anyway, uh, so the guys are always dialing in at 10 Oh three 10 Oh four right. And the first thing I say is I’ll go, Hey Wolfgang, you’re here for the 10 Oh four meeting. And I don’t know why it works, but it’s just a frame control one-on-one. And they will go, I am so sorry. You know, we got a shipment that was stuck in the port, you know, it’s a a hundred million dollar deal. I’m, I’m so sorry I won’t be late next time. Eh. So frame control, right? As you’re saying, I always find a way to frame you do air behavior as a little bit awkward, right? In order to get frame control. If you don’t have it, you know, then then the frame will be on you and they’ll be controlling you.

Can you, uh, explain why and I get, I try to give people a examples that everyone can relate to, but when Trump was asked about building a wall and whether you’re in favor of a wall or not, and they say no, and the guy who’s asking him the question says, Hey, you know, the head of Mexico says he’s not going to help you build a wall. And then Trump responds with it just got taller. Why does that work? Like why, why does that work? Because some of the listeners out there, like I know that everyone cheered and it’s memorable, but why?

Let me, let me tell you what’s going on there and how you can apply it in your world today. Okay? It’s in this way. You do not have to chase every conversation thread that comes up. So if the buyer says, uh, you know, how do you compare to your other top three competitors? 99 of a hundred salespeople start to go down that route. Right? Uh,


We would say, you know what? Somebody said to me, you know, how do you compare to your top three competitors? You know, you have to break that frame. You can’t chase that thread, right? I would say you’re, we’re exactly the same. We all do basically the same thing.


you do not have to chase conversation thread that buyer puts in front of you. Right? How much is it? Right? Here’s how you break that frame. How much is it? Right? Which are the analyst frame? Yup. We all know how much it is. It’s more than you want to pay and less than we want to charge. That’s how much it always is. Listen, listen here. Here’s what I can tell you when we get to the price. I don’t know what you need, right? It’s not $400,000, but if you think you’re going to get it for a $100,000, you came to the wrong place, right? So it’s somewhere in between there. For sure. I can tell you, once you figure out everything that you need, we figured out what scribbled on a price you’re going to go, eh, that’s what I thought. This is plain vanilla stuff right down the middle of the fairway.

The pricing is not exotic. You want me to throw a price at it now? I dunno. Two 50, 300, three 25. Right? Let’s talk a little bit what you need. We’ll give you a price and you go, yeah, you know, that’s normal. If you’re telling me straight up right now, you want the absolute Costco, China, you know, made in Taiwan, uh, you know, by today, keep the kid happy on Christmas day, but it’s broken the next day. If you want that version of it, that ain’t us. And if that’s where you’re headed with this, let me know so I can help you because I know the guys at the, it works one day on Christmas in his broken, the next day company John over there was a good guy. That’s what they have. And it’s like, you know nothing. So if that’s when you want, just tell me. I’ll hook you up with John.

He’ll take good care of you, but let me know what you need so I can help you know. I um, I certainly am not, I’m encouraging our listeners to insult people as a way to get ahead, but I want to just throw this out at you. You mentioned that these moves could be used for good and bad and if you’ll remember the elections when Trump was really behaving badly, do you remember where he kept encouraging Jeb Bush to stay awake? Do you remember that he kept encouraging him to bring some energy? Do you remember that? That the debates, he just kept going, good job. Jeb. Jeb would finish things up here. Great job there. A Gebbie way to bring some energy. Like, he just kept doing that, you know, so what is the even frame control? And some people don’t even like the tone they’re hearing from me here.

And I can share, you can say this stuff in your own tone, but as you get better at pitching anything and flip the script, you’ll be more direct, more succinct, shorter and more open, transparent and honest. And that’s where this tone comes from. It comes from being honest and having values and saying, look, I’ll help you out a bend over backwards. Uh, but I’ll, I’ll, we’ll, you know, we’ll do what we can. We’ll, we’ll, we, you know, we won’t stop when we’re tired. We’re stop when we’re done and all that stuff. But I won’t, I won’t move away from my values. Right. And my values are, we don’t discount. My values are, we are, um, uh, you know, we spend time with our families. Our values are, we’re friends with our clients and customers. Our values are when we get an argument, which we always will do, no relationship, uh, you know, survived the dating period without getting an argument.

We will always come back and work as hard as possible. The last call before we die will be illegal and we’ll do everything possible. We’re very to get rid of, just tell us if you don’t want us around, we’ll leave you alone. Uh, give you your money back. All those things. But the one thing I won’t do, it’s changed my values. Right? And, and so that is a value determination. Right? Do you enjoy making other people look bad in front of other people? I don’t. Right. Uh, so everybody’s experienced this, you know, in a coffee shop. Yep. Right? Where your buddy is like, Hey, I told you, you know, I didn’t want, I didn’t want, I want half a packet of sugar now, whole sugar. I want full foam and double cup it. Come on. Right. Whereas me, I’m just like, Hey, whatever. I’m just not the coffee I wanted, but it’s not that. So, so, but everybody has seen so many belittle a waitress or a server for Christ’s sake. I mean, those guys are, are, you know, making enough money to maybe get by, uh, you know, living with a couple people. And roommates and, and you know, probably short on health care and all that stuff. Why berate and belittle them. So I don’t, that’s not my value. Berating and validity, belittling people. I have a good life. I don’t like the Lord it over people. Um, you know, so if I ran you with my Lamborghini, no.

Oh, so, uh, uh, well I have, I have a,

but that’s a value. That’s a value judgment, right? And, and certainly, um, you know, Trump has made that value judgment and he thinks it serves him. But in business, uh, you know, we just, I just try and keep it clean. I do like to hold the buyer accountable for the values that I’m committed to. And that’s what I think flipped the script really shows you how to do. You decide where you are on pricing, where you are and how much time you’re willing to spend with a buyer before they decide how willing

you are to accept this a, Hey, send us a proposal. Right? So, so for example, when people say to us, we don’t do proposals, right? Companies that have nothing to do, write proposals. And we write agreements for deals. Right. But we’re not gonna write up a bunch of stuff. Send it over to you before we what have a verbal agreement on a deal with sensors that, yeah. So, yeah. Uh, so, so you don’t have to be cruel, you don’t have to insult people, but you can be honest, direct and forthright when you’re anchored to the things that are important to you, you know, or, but I want to do out of respect for your time. I have two final questions for you. Uh, one from me and one from a thriver who has a flown in here from a Dale, did you fly in here from Amarillo or did you, I think your Mike’s on right there.

Did you fly in from, uh, from Emerald or did you guys drive here? Yes, I flew in from Amarillo. Okay. And he owns a company called Daniel’s heating there. He’s a longtime listener and he has a company’s, I’m gonna let him ask you any sales or persuasion question he could possibly think of, and then I’ve got a question for you real quick. All right, awesome. Let’s roll. Autobots. Rollout, if I, if I buy, flip the script now. Um, wait, what’s maybe one way that book could change my life if I implement what is in your new book? Flip the script.

So the, the idea behind flip the script is as simple as inception. You should never get to the point in a pitch and a sale and a presentation where you say, so what do you think? Is this something you’d be interested in? Do you have any questions? That’s not what you do at the end of a sales presentation or, or telling people about your product or your ideas. What you really want is for the prospect or the buyer or the person on their side of the deal to go, you know what? I love this. How do we get started? That’s the deal should close itself. When the buyer says, I love it. How do we get started? And flip the script is the process of getting somebody to that point. And that is how all of our deals close. We never go. Uh, mr. So Mr. Jones, what do you think? Are there any questions or if we can get the price right, can we move ahead today? It’s always the case in the deals we close where they go, Hey, I’m really excited. Can you send over an invoice? I want to get started on Monday. That’s what flipped the script. Shows you how to do

now, Daniel, you have a company called Daniel’s heating air based in Amarillo, Texas. Your business is growing. A little fun factoid here for you. He’s done more business this year, during the first month of August than he did all of last year. And during the entire month of August, they’re orange. So he’s having big growth there with his heat and air company. Daniel, what question do you have for mr Orin? Clap. Okay. Mr. Warren, clap. Uh, what is the best rebuttal for a customer that just wants to know a price of a air conditioning or anything?

Yeah. Yeah. I think, well, the key to this is the word rebuttal, right? So we do not want to be in argumentation with our customers. So my, and I’m going to answer you quickly about my senses. Something has gone wrong. Uh, to get to that point. So I’m going to answer your question, but I would back you up. Right. The reason that you’re getting that question is the, that buyer doesn’t believe that the world is changing and he doesn’t believe that you’re the number one expert in the way that change is happening. And that’s why you’re getting those kinds of pricing questions, right? Cause he wants to go out and shop it. All right. Uh, so, but, but when to do so. So how’s the question go? Hey, listen for the 27, four or five Aircall frees 23 one seven nine unit. What’s the price? Nine 99 right? An and that, but that’s a question he’s asking you. Yes. That is the question.


you know, I think the, the answer to that is, you know, as I’ve said before, the price is, I don’t want to be snide. The prices more than you want it to be and it’s less than we want to charge for something like that. It’s nine 99, then you got the 79, you know, then I would, I would stack right a million things on it, you know, air filtration, you know, HVAC, HVAC code, are you compliant? Is your, and I would do a flash roll as I call it in the book, right. Where he should feel that you’re the ultimate expert. Right? So you would say, uh, you know, the price for the 23 O C is nine, nine, nine nine. They’ve got a new one this year, which has the, you know, HVAC 23 O C code, you know, that’s compliant and that one’s 1399, you know, um, the uh, uh, pulling a permit is 2399, you know, um, you know, hooking it up and getting the, you know, Bluetooth wired capabilites, you know, cell phone is 23, 89, so nine, nine. And so like w what do you mean? Here’s what I can tell you.

The price that we have is what it takes to get it working. You can buy it on the internet, get it shipped from wherever to your house. Right? And you could probably get it for eight 89 and if you want it for eight 89 let me give you the name of the guy over at air. Conditioners are cheap and they ship it good. So I don’t understand if you want the air conditioner, if you want it working. And in fact is a little bit of a red flag for me. Got it. That’s right. Yup. I’m happy to give you a specific price. I just don’t know enough. Here’s what I can tell you, right

Andrew, you know what I’m going to have to do right now? I mean, right now you get that trigger finger ready over there. Andrew got the trigger finger ready Orin. And as is tradition here, if I have an author on the show and the author has a compelling argument, I just buy that. I throw caution to the wind or, and I just buy the book. I just say, forget the caution. Forget the budget. I’m going to spend $22 and 19 cents on that book. And so Andrew, are you prepared to buy the book? Andrew’s prepared. Uh, he’s excited to buy it. He’s using mind weird. Somebody just bought a hundred books. Oh, sorry. That was my mom. Oh, thank you ms [inaudible]. Hey Oren, I appreciate you so much for being on the show, my friend and uh, I’ll give you the floor. Do you have a final word you want to share with our listeners? We just appreciate you so much.

Yeah, I think today sales and conversion is so jammed up. It’s either flip the script or die.

Well, I’ll tell you what, I’ve got a little sound effect I want to hit right there because that right there is hot

[inaudible] wow, that’s some glory right there. Orange,

thank you for being on this show and I hope you have an awesome rest of your day.

Thank you. I’ve enjoyed it. This, the sound effects and the good questions and the guest speakers. I’m, I’m overwhelmed and uh, appreciative.

Hey, you too. Take care. And Warren, we’re off and I’m going to get this show all edited and this show is set to go out in October. Okay, great. And when it goes out, uh, we’ll send it to your people. So you can uh, promote it or not promote it to your heart’s content. But either way, I really appreciate your, your, your book man. Hopefully you felt like I prepared well enough cause I’ve honored to, to have you on the show. Yeah, you prepared for sure. I appreciate it and plenty of great things to say. So let it fly. All right my friend, you take care and have a great day and joy, joy those motorcycles. Okay. I will, I will. Thanks for the interview. I appreciate it. Alright, bye. All right, bye guys. I encourage everybody out there to purchase Oren class book pitch. Anything on that book has had such an impact on my life.

Um, I made my wife listen to that audio book with me I think three times, uh, when I was driving to Dallas and back because I was struggling to understand it and it was blowing my mind. I was having her take notes while I was driving. I’m like, Oh Whoa, pause, pause, write that down. Write that. Did pop pop. Nope. That right there. That’s hot. And my wife gets things quickly cause she’s smart and I don’t. Um, but that book, I’m just telling you, that book right there, uh, is an impressive book. Pick it out today. Just get, get the book today. Go to Amazon, buy pitch anything and his newest book, flip the script. I would encourage you, I have not read the book yet though. I have not read the book. Flip the script. I encourage you to get, I’m getting, I just bought a copy of the book myself.

I look forward to digesting that book and breaking it down on the show. But again, check out Orin class book, pitch anything and flip the script. And uh, dr Breck I’ll let you have the final word here. For anybody out there who’s afraid of selling something, what’s your final word of encouragement to help all of our listeners sell something, pitch anything and to move beyond just surviving financially? Well, I would say a, like clay had said earlier, um, you know, find your value in a something other than the sale itself. Um, you know, you are a valuable person. Yup. Um, and then, uh, find the value in the product that you’re selling. Uh, the service that you’re selling. Um, believe in the product, believe in the service a full wholeheartedly. Yup. And you won’t find it nearly as difficult to sell. And if you work somewhere where you can’t sell something cause you did, you disagree with the ethics of it, you don’t believe in the product.

You don’t believe in what you’re selling. Knowing it’s time to move on. It is. Yeah. You, you’ve got, if I believe in something, I, I’m not a salesman. I’m not, I promise you I’m not. Um, but if I believe in something, I can sell anything. Um, you know, it’s, uh, people will go and they’ll tell all their friends about their favorite new pair of shoes or this restaurant that they visited. You’re selling it. That’s what you’re doing. You’re, you’re out there marketing for that business because you had a great experience cause you believe in it. If you don’t believe in your product or service, you’re not going to be good at selling it. But if you fully believe in it, true and you’re passionate about it, you won’t find it very difficult at all. And now, without any further ado, we’d like to in each and every show with a boom. Uh, Jason, are you prepared? Always. Mr listener, Mrs. Ellison, are you prepared? Yes. Okay. And dr Breck, are you prepared? I’m ready. Here we go. Now let me further, ed. Do three, two, one, boom.

Stop what you’re doing. And think about this for a second. What would happen if your company was suddenly able to generate exponentially more quality sales leads? That would be incredible. What would happen if your company came up at the top or near the top of the Google search engine results? Quill. I would just feel overwhelmed with all that. Pissed is how many thousands of dollars in lost sales or millions of dollars in lost sales are you missing out on? Simply because your potential customers can’t find you when they go online to search for the products and services that you offer. I refuse to think that thought because I don’t want any more business unless you are a dirty communist that hates money. My new book search engine domination will help you grow your business. In my new book, search engine domination, we will teach you the specific steps that you need to take to dominate the search engine results. What do you mean by dominate? You see in my new book search engine domination, we will teach you the specific steps that you need to take to dominate search engine results. Download your free ebook copy [email protected]

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Hey, this is Dustin Huff. I’m with Keystone Harbor Marina. Um, we joined thrive, uh, back in January and uh, had been working with these guys for about seven months. Uh, during that time period we have uh, moved up our Google rank through reviews and SEO processes that we’ve, uh, compiled through these guys. Our leads have gone from about four week to now, 165 a week. So the process works. Uh, I will tell you from experience, once you begin, you have to stay with it. As long as you continually do this weekend and week out, month in and month out, you’ll continually grow.

The system works, but nothing works unless you do. You’ve got to take some action. Download the ebook for free [email protected].

Hello, my name is Daniel Daniels heating and air here in Amarillo, Texas. Uh, the way Google has affected my business, uh, we have got a lot of calls from Google right now it’s July and we’ve had the best month ever and it took us about eight to 10 months to get on top of Google and I’m glad we did.

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This is your year to thrive. Today is your day and now is your time. Lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs tenfold. I’m here to tell you, you can do it. If you can just motivate yourself to up. The masses had to cut off of you. So on the day I could one day do a misshape and I had to prove I had to make cuts to be here daily at noon. The way of a knowledge monsoon, I could make those a doubt in you. Why you the next Spock of all the next blue roof for the next Dr. King who changed the bowls and bowls into way like a one back one. It’s up to you. I remember my days back into the door like the pimple do well with the jobs that tried to consume food. The future that I could pursue from the mountain top. Now I can to clue that you have what it takes your youth to thrive. Success you today is your day and now it’s your year to today. And now this moment is profound to show about the crown jewel rope might’ve been rough with what you’ve got now is now even checked out. But you gotta be resourceful with the old plough started from the bottom. Put my way up. I was been prayed up, present, grind top dog. You gotta get it. Don’t put it to your seat.

Today is your day and now today is your day and now it’s your turn. [inaudible] all went to kid, but we cannot begin without self discipline to fall like your face. Get yourself a teacher. [inaudible] they are with the friends when the storm’s getting up in the scat and the only thing that with yourself, what you believe, who believe in you, but not as much as God does. If you’re going through, have these gotten nothing plugged off, apply what you’ve already increased switchboard. Hit into Todd your gun money to apply what you’ve learned, a breeze, what you’ve learned in due time. You’ve gotten money to increase what you bring into town. You got money to sing it. Sing in Greece in due time you’ve got money to money. I look to shout down the towers, silver beads that becoming your dream flowers empower you to de devour all the obstacles that make your sweet dream sour. As for me. I used to sit still start up, but now up on the microphone. Smooth light. if I can do it. I know you can do, but you bust. Stick to it like to at while Morgan Zam the call risk. What he’s seeing, I shoot true victories. Today is your day to day show day and now this is the old saying. It says you will off. Today is your day today and no is yours. It’s your time today and now we do a time. Sing it Barton. Today is your day. [inaudible]

I realize I can’t sing like that, but I can’t talk and

play the woodblock. Okay? If you guys need me, I’ll just be over here.


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