The Dennis Rodman Story | Crawling Through 5 Miles of Crap and Picking up the Nba’s Trash (Part 1)

Show Notes

Dennis Rodman was willing to literally climb through five miles of sewage to get into the Texas State Fair and he was willing to give it everything he had every night while playing in college and ultimately the NBA. He and Clay Clark share the same “dragon energy” and during this podcast, Clay shares part 1 of the Dennis Rodman story.

FUN FACT – On April 1st, 2011 – Dennis Rodman was inducted into Hall of Fame –


  1. Dennis Rodman won 5 NBA Championships
  2. He also led the NBA in rebounds per game for a record seven consecutive years and won five NBA championships.  

Page 12 – Notable Quotable – State Fair Story –

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “The tunnel was wide in most places, but it stunk like you wouldn’t believe. The sewage was about a foot deep, so we had to walk round it, sort of on the side of the tunnel. It was dark and scary, so we’d bring flashlights so we could work our way around the crap and also so we could follow the lines that somebody had drawn years ago to mark the way.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 15 – Notable Quotable – Male Role Model –

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “There wasn’t a male role model in my life until I got to college and started getting my s$&% together.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 17 – Notable Quotable – I’ve Been Homeless –

Page 25 – Bryne is Dennis Rodman’s Best Friend

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “Bryne is still my best friend. He helps to run my construction company – Rodman Excavation in Frisco, Texas and we talk all the time. We both went through a lot together, and that’s a strong bond.”

Page 21 – Notable Quotable – Kicked Off Team After One Semester –

Page 17 – Notable Quotable – It Wasn’t Easy for a Guy Like Me –

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “I went to the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport and got a job as a janitor on the graveyard shift. This job has become a big part of the Rodman legend. I can’t believe how often it comes up, just because it’s so damn different than most NBA players.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 22 –

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “The little kid was named Bryne Rich. I had met Bryne at the Southeastern basketball camp the summer before I started school there. He was thirteen and I was twenty-two. I can remember him looking at me funny, which wasn’t unusual; back in those days. I sometimes walked around with quarters in my ears. I don’t know why I did it, probably just so people would think I was crazy. Anyway, Bryce and I became friends – best friends. Bryne kind of fell in love with me at that camp. He invited me over to his house for dinner, and I went. I was weird. I remember saying, “Why is this kid in love with me? Why does he love me so damn much?” – Dennis Rodman

Page 22 – Notable Quotable – In Durant OK, different world, noticed right away

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “Southeastern Oklahoma University is in Durant, Oklahoma, a town of six thousand people. Compared to what I was used to, Durant was as a different world, bro. A whole different world. I noticed the difference right away. I was walking to class soon after I got there and some $&%hole leaned his head out of the car and yelled, “You go home you black son of a b&$%#!” That happened a lot.” – Dennis Rodman


“My mom always told me, be nice to all the ugly girls. You never know how people will end up.” – Doctor Zoellner


“Bryne and I had something in common from the start as strange as it seems. We were both coming off hard times, and we were both confused about stuff in our lives. I was trying to decide where my life was going and Bryne was trying to deal with having shot and killed his best friend in a freak hunting accident the year before. Bryne told his parents he wanted a little brother. He got me instead.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 28 – NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “He was like an old wise man in a fairy tale. I couldn’t believe hit man was in my wlife. I couldn’t believe a man like that existed. He just laid it all out on the line and let me know I could make something out of myself if I wanted to face up to reality. There was no cloud over any of it, it was straight to the point, clear as day. He looked at everything straight ahead. He wasn’t the type who would sit down and tell me I could be a famous basketball player if I wanted it bad enough. He wouldn’t fill my head with that stuff, because it wasn’t really his style. Instead he would say, Whatever you do make it positive. Make it what you want it to be, not what somebody else wants it to be.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 31 – NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “One thing though: I was a project on a mission. I was willing to do anything to stay in the league. I was different, an outsider, but I wanted to hang around as long as I could. I came at things from a different angle, because I knew what I had left behind. I knew how hard it had been to get there in the first place.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 35 – NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “I figured I made it to the league the hard way, so why not stay in it the hard way too? The hard way in the NBA is through defense and rebounding – the two things guys would rather not do. There’s not a guy in the league besides me, who doesn’t want to score. That’s why nobody can believe me. I don’t want to score.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 36 – NOTABLE QUOTABLE – Nicknamed the Worm

“I think it was during that stretch that the people of Detroit started getting into the phenomenon of the “Worm.” It was pretty amazing for me to see that nickname what I’d been given as a little kid, for the way I wiggled when I played pinball, splashed across headlines to the Detroit papers.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 41 – NOTABLE QUOTABLE – Guarding Larry Bird

“There were guys that I could intimidate with my eyes or by getting in their a$% and not letting them move, but Bird wasn’t one of them. Taking him on was liking playing a computer game. You had to try to get into his mind and anticipate what he was going to do next. That was the hardest part, because he was always thinking way ahead of everybody on the floor. The only thing to do was get used to him. Watch tapes, watch him closely on the floor and try to beat him to the spot. We played them enough that I started to get used to him, but it was never comfortable. Even though he wasn’t fast and he didn’t do much for fancy dunks or anything like that, Bird was one of the few white guys who could play what people call the “Black Game.” I respect Larry. I respected anybody who could go out and kick my butt, and he did it often.” – Dennis Rodman

Page 43 – Darrell Walker Attempting to Spit On Him

Page 47 – Winning the Defensive Player of the Year

Page 52 – NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “When Chuck Daly was fired…”

“When Daly left, I think he took some of me with him. I couldn’t take it when they fired him. I respect Chuck Daly more than anyone in the league and it killed me to have to play the last year there without him.” – Dennis Rodman

Dennis Rodman, 1986 NBA Draft , Detroit Pistons – Round: 2 / Pick: 27

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “Rich people have big libraries. Poor people have big TVs.” – Clifton Taulbert (The man who first introduced the Stairmaster to America and the first African American west of the Mississippi River to open up a bank. His life was turned into the best-selling book and movie, “Once Upon a Time When We Were Colored.” –

Page 58 – The Dennis Rodman Circus Helped to Sell Out the Alamo Dome


“One thing that they might find out would surprise alot of people. How many people in the NBA will come in before a game, work out, go out and play 40 minutes and then come back in after the game and work out again for another hour and a half? How many people in the league do they think do that?…After the game I lift heavier weights. I find if I life after the game, I have a longer recovery time than if I come in the next morning.” – Dennis Rodman

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “Don’t them let them out prepare you.” – Wes Carter

Shout out to Robbie with Artisan Pools –

NOTABLE QUOTABLE – “In looking for partners or vendors, you know the make and model. They show up on time, and they overdeliver.” – Doctor Zoellner

Business Coach | Ask Clay & Z Anything

Audio Transcription

Get ready to enter the thrive time show. Thrive nation. Welcome back to the business conferences conversation. Now. See I absolutely credible news,

Dan, from the thrive time show just is. I’m picking up. My kids today from the airport had been visiting their grandparents. They’re in Kentucky and so I’m picking him up today. We’re going to go buy some fireworks tonight and I’m excited. I haven’t seen the oldest three now for about a week and I’m excited to get them back because he, I, W, I Z, I want to get them back. Did I hear that correctly? Yeah. I love these guys. They’re, they’re a Z. I actually.

You’re talking about your children. I love my kids because they’re great. They’re well mannered and you see a difference in kids that are homeschooled and kids that are aren’t homeschool.

Yes. Well, I think right now, and if you send your kids to public school, you have to understand that you might raise your kids with awesome values, but the person that your kid’s six sits next to might not be raised with awesome values and so overall your kids become the average of the five people they spend the most time with. Just like an entrepreneur, their network is their net worth and sometimes their network is their self worth and they get surrounded by people that are maybe not the best. Sometimes they are the best, so I would just say as a parent, be very intentional about who you are, who your kids spend their time with. In India though, that’s so true. That is so true. Another little little, little business conferences personal. When Z, Robbie, the pool guy is going to be here in an hour. Don’t tease me and I want you to be there when he presents us with the final rendering of what the backyard Clark,

I’m great chicken Palestrina might look like, get kind of emotional. These are all things that are happening that are exciting to see. This is what happened. Folks, if you’re listening out there, what do young man approaches you said so many years ago, 18, 17, 16 years ago, and and even though you look at them and you think, holy Camoly, holy, holy crap, holy, what is going on? Hey Man, I’m a. and you look at this young man and he wants to be mentored and so you begrudgingly give them some time and then you talk to them and all of a sudden she, this guy starts. It’s like a flower bloom, bloom blooming everywhere, everywhere, and now you get to be there at the unveiling of his pool backyard.

So we’re excited. So in less than an hour, the pool man will be here. Robbie, who I believe is the most qualified of the pool candidates to present to us the best. What made him, what made him stand out? I’ve got three things. Okay. Number one is heres high and tight. He shows up on time. No, this isn’t. That’s variable one. He shows up on time. Is Harris High and tight? Okay. He looks like Marshall Morris. Very credible, very credible. Shows up here too. I said, where do you get your hair cut? He says, elephant in the room. I want to know the high end tight look. There’s always a customer of yours. I didn’t know this though before. Wow. Okay. So variable number two is he. He says, I’m an Elf at the room customer and he says, I just don’t want to look sharp. So it was Kinda like, okay, okay.

That’s kind of wondering a little bit three dude. His renderings he sent over of what the fool is going to look like. You can like, you can. I don’t know if you’d want to lick a pool or touch a pool. Do you want to swim in the rendering? I feel like I want to. I feel like it’s like inside my body. Wow. The pool inside my mind. It’s like you gave birth to it. I feel like I gave birth to the pool. It’s, it’s that. It’s that good. Now see something else else’s did that. Is that good to say? We’re talking about this, this crawling through five miles of crap and picking up the Mbas trash in route to becoming a hall of fame player. We’re talking about. Do you think he really will be in the hall of fame? Nobody from somewhere. A janitor makes it big. We’re talking about Dennis Rodman Z. do you like Dennis Rodman? You don’t. I’ve never met him. Do you like his career?

Um, I think it’s fast. It’s a fascinating business conferences study and that’s why, you know, we, we love to break down books and we do all the heavy lifting for you. I mean, you can always go back and peruse it just to kind of spell check because if you will. But he is, I mean, it’s a fascinating. I knew him back in college or knew of him back in college because he played at the university that played the school where I was and I was, you know, he’s 57. I’m 53 and he kind of started little later. So we were about the same place in college. And so, um, anyway, was, he was fascinating back then and then he just morphed into this character, this person that’s pretty amazing.

I would say this in an eight and April first 2011. I’m not sure if you’re aware of this, but this just in season man who knows a little bit about everything and a lot about soccer. But in 2011, April, first he was inducted into the naismith memorial basketball hall of fame. He is a player who’s one that’s college. He’s won many championships. Thinking about this. This is a guy who’s won five nba championships and he didn’t play formal basketball until the age of 21. That’s crazy. So this is what happens is he graduates high school at the height of five foot nine. Now Taller. You Dr. C dot. I’m about five foot nine. So imagine that you’re not going to chance. I’m just saying to you graduated high school, age 18, you’re five foot nine. You grew up in poverty. Then age 21, you find yourself working at the airport and you get arrested for stealing watches.

Your sisters are playing division one basketball. But you are now six foot eight and your sisters were division one basketball player. Say, maybe you should play professional basketball, or at least now I turn to page 12 of Dennis Rodman’s book. This is bad as I want to be. Nobody from nowhere agenda or makes it big. This is what Dennis Rodman writes. He says, the Texas State Fair is held in Dallas about five miles from where I grew up in the oak cliff projects. None of the kids I hung around had enough money to get into the fair, but we went every year there is an underground sewage tunnel that can take you right there. We crawl into a manhole in the business conferences project and start our journey. This tunnel was legendary among the kids and oak cliff. I think everyone who grew up there went to the state fair that way at one time or another.

My friends and I started taking this route when I was 13 or 14. The pto is wide in some places but stunk like you wouldn’t believe. The sewage was a foot deep, so we had to walk around it sort of on the side of the tunnel. It was dark and scary, so he’d bring flashlights so we could work our way around the quote unquote crap and also so we could follow the lines that somebody had drawn years ago to mark the way. When I think about it, I just shake my head five miles through a sewage tunnel to, to the state fair. What kind of crazy mess was that? What the F was I thinking? So Dennis Rodman was a guy who crew who climbed through crap for five miles to go to the state. Fair. Z. Can you talk to me about growing up when you don’t have money and what that can do in a positive way to your mindsets, you can view it as a problem or you could view it as a super power. How does growing up without money, without financial resources, how does it help to grow up poor?

Well, I mean it does one or two things. I mean, it’s like every opportunity you have growing up, you can either go the good way with it or you can go the bad way with it, you know. And for me, uh, I focused on the fact that, uh, if I said, you know, if I want, I started work when I was 13 because I wanted a new pair of jeans to go to school. I needed books and school supplies and you know, a little folders and all the, all the, you know, the one with a golf pro sports team, the colored pencils for you to science class or whatever. And so I’ll give you one, all that stuff. And so you’re Kinda like, well, uh, I guess you could. I’m a fuss about it and feel bad about yourself and mourn the fact that you don’t have it and maybe hit a street corner and hand out, you know, put a cup in your hand and say, Hey, but hopefully somebody will give me something because I don’t have anything. Or you say, you know what, uh, I’m an able body person. I’m going to go mow yards, I’m going to go wash dishes, I’m going to go do something productive and get a job.

Dennis Rodman says on page 15 of his book, he says, I did not have a male role model in my life until I got to college and started getting my s together. We’ll let you ponder what estimates means, but z, can you talk to me or can you, can you identify with that, of not having a consistent role model in your life? Is that something that you. How did you grow up? Did you have one dad? Multiple folks? I mean, sure. The listeners kind of your bet, your background and, and what, what that was like growing up?

Yeah. Uh, you know, I, um, my, my mom married and had two boys and then they divorced and um, and then she remarried and her second husband adopted me. So I was adopted by John Zelner. I’m rest in peace a dad and he raised us and then I got to meet my biological dad when I was 16. That was Kinda cool. And now we have a, he’s still alive and we have a relationship and uh, so, you know, it’s Kinda one of those things where you know, you, you go through life and as bad as you think it is or you know, that there’s no parent out there, that’s perfect. I’ll just tell you that right now. There’s no parent out there that the perfect. Of course some people have had parenting situation is much worse than others. I get that, but we all have a little bit of angst about parents and things that were done wrong.

Things that were done right. No parents are perfect. No parents are perfect. Just get over that I didn’t do. Being a parents, you’re not going to do everything perfect yourself. You’re just in this just in. But I think the key thing about it is, is not letting here, again, not letting that dictate who you are. You know, we’re volunteers in most things in life. We’re not victims. We’re volunteers. And in almost every aspect of our life, we’re not victims. And some people want to go through life in a victim mentality. You know that victim mentality of, well, if I just had a dad, well, if I had just had a mom, well if I had just had this, I just had that, I would, I would have been turned out much better.

Dennis Rodman writes on page 17 of his book. He said, I’ve been homeless. I’ve worked at a seven slash 11. I’m a real person with real, real experiences and I know how easy it is to find yourself out there with nothing. I went to the Dallas Fort Worth airport and just got a job as a janitor on the graveyard shift. This job has become a big part of the Rodman’s legend. I can’t believe how often it comes up just because it’s so different than most nba players at the time. I didn’t think it was a big deal. I was pushing a broom and mopping floors for six, 15 hour, which wasn’t bad money for me back then. I was just working just like everybody else in the business conferences world. There was no reason for me to believe that I’d ever do much more than that. Now Marshall, you’re a business coach and I think a lot of what you do is help people believe that their business can actually become successful.

Talk to me about your role as a business coach and how you try to breathe life into people that have a real product and real service and they just need someone to believe in them. Well, as a business coach, one of the most valuable things that you’ll find is somebody that just has an objective opinion in an objective view of an objective perspective of your business. Because as an entrepreneur, you’re in it day in, day out, you see all the good, the highs, the lows, and it’s, it’s emotional. Now, as a business owner, you have to learn how to not let the emotion get in the way of the motion, get in the way of growing the business. And so as a coach, one of, uh, our roles up here at the thrive time show is to present you and repeat back to you the current situation, the current perspective of where you’re at, and then provide the resources from clay and Dr Zellner with proven best practices of what you need to do next in an objective way.

And we come back from the break. We’re going to break down more about the life and times of Dennis Rodman and the specific action items that you can apply to your own life. The mindset you can apply, apply to your life when you hear about an nba hall of fame basketball player who didn’t play organized basketball until the age of 21. But Z, before we go to the break, I want to tell the listeners about onyx imaging z. do you spend a lot of your time during your week running around looking for a good deal on office supplies and printer supplies? I just love going to home depot and staples. Do you run around, look in the. After you ran around looking for office supplies and printer supplies? No. Why? Because it’s a waste of time when you have a great organization like unaccept. Well actually deliberate. So if you want to save money on your office supplies and printer supplies. No, I don’t want to. I love comparing prices at retail stores. Paint in the middle of my workday. It’s my lowest. Use, my lowest. Really? Really? It’s the lowest thing I can be doing with my time, but I just love doing it. No. If you want to save both time and money on your office and printer supplies, then go to our good [email protected]. It’s o n y x today. Get ready to enter the thrive time show on the bottom. Started from the bottom.

Now on the top, Tom, you the systems to kibble Dixon’s on the hooks, hopper down the books, brigit some wisdom and the color. That’s what I’m adopt. So if you see my wife and kid, please tell them upon your brain. Now three, two, one. Here we go. Dry patient. Break it down today that Dennis Rodman store crawling through five miles of crap, digging up the Mbas trash to create a hall of fame career. Now this is a. When I read this book, I tried to read about a book a week that’s sort of my regiment. I listened to a lot of audio books to try to get through one book a week. I don’t, I, I tried to. I’ve tried to read about 52 books a year. No. Yeah. You’re, you’re on your way off of your, your, uh, one of them.

Oh really?

The reason why I do it is because for me, I read business conferences books, a lot of technical books, but I like to read books sometimes that about people that I feel like I can relate to. And Dennis Rodman is a guy who I feel like he and I went through a lot of similar things as a kid and I knew that, uh, just anecdotally from having heard interviews with him and I thought, you know, I want to read more about this guy. So on page 20 of his book, bad as I want to be. Dennis Rodman rights. I started playing basketball more seriously after I got caught stealing the watches at age 21. I was just playing with friends in the gym and that’s where Lorita Westbrook saw me play. It was night leagues or pickup games. Mostly I just be hanging out at the gym like a kid with a new toy.

I was getting close to six foot eight. He graduated from high school by the way, at the. At the height of five foot 10 or less let people say it’s a lot of people said he graduated high school at five foot eight or five foot nine and he said I was just getting close to six foot eight, but as time and even though I was skinny and a little embarrassed by the growth spurt, it was like a new body. I could do things on the basketball court that weren’t possible before. I Dunno where Larieta Westbrook is today, but I bet she tells everyone that she discovered Dennis Rodman. I went to that tryout at Cook County junior college and after about 15 minutes they pulled me aside and told me they had a scholarship for me, so is, here’s the guy’s a miracle. He’s 21 years old. He’s working at the airport in the DFW airport.

He gets arrested for stealing watches. His sisters who play Division One basketball said, hey, you should probably go try out, and he says here in his book, he says, the only time I played organized basketball was my sophomore year in high school when I barely made the junior varsity team, but I quit halfway through the season, so here he is. He’s 21 years old and he’s just shows up to dry out and he gets offered a scholarship at a junior college. He goes on to right here on page 21 marshall, he writes lawn reisman, an assistant coach at southeastern Oklahoma in in a I a school had seen me play wall ball. I was at cook before I get kicked off the team. Remember he got kicked off the team. He was on Cook County Junior College to say why filling academics? Oh, imagine that, and he says, and he was convinced I could make it.

He talked to the head coach Jack hadn’t and they decided to come after me. They were determined to because I didn’t want anything to do with college. After that one semester, colleges would call when I was at my mother’s house and refused to take the calls. I didn’t want to hear what they had to say. The only reason I talked to hadn’t and reisman is because they showed up at the house one day and I answered the door. I don’t know for sure, but I guess this isn’t the way to Shaquille O’neil went to college or Michael Jordan or anybody else in the NBA was recruited. When you look at how I got placed in a position to do what I’ve done, the girl convinced me to try out. Everybody giving me those watches. He goes on to explain it. There’s a guy who was arrested for stealing watches.

A friend, a person saw him and anonymous person just saw him working out one day playing pickup basketball. They recommend that he goes to a junior college. He goes to the junior college, he fills out academically, somebody else sees in play and then offers them a full scholarship and insists that he pursues basketball. So this just it. He finds himself at southeastern Oklahoma University and a town called durant and he says it wasn’t easy for a guy like me who didn’t know anyone besides. No, no anything besides the city. All I ever knew was the city and the projects and they didn’t prepare me for what I got when I went up there to that small town. I noticed the difference right away. I was walking to class soon and I got there and some a whole leaned his head out the car window and yelled at me, go back home, you black son of a.

That happened a lot. They’d tell me, get your black Outta here, go back to Africa. But he goes on to explain that he also did not like black people because he said he was a whole very homely kid, a very ugly person. He describes himself as being a repulsive physically, and he said, so growing up as a kid, he said he got made fun of a ton from the African American community, so we actually says in his book, Marshall, that he ha, he hadn’t as mind growing up as a kid, that he wanted to be white and he wanted to move to a white community because the white community seems so much nicer. So he goes to the white community and people made fun of him there. So the teaching moment I’d like for Dr. z dot breakdown is no matter where you go on this planet, there will be haters.

There will be mean people no matter where you go. And as I read this part of the book actually had a little man tier because there’s a little kid in the book by the name of Brian Rich. He said he met Brian Rich. This is on page 22 marshall. He says, I had met Brian at the southern southeastern basketball camp the summer before I started school. He was 13 and I was 22. We became best friends. He became friends with the age of 22 with a 13 year old because he said it was the only person who had a pure heart and who didn’t make fun of them. Wow. So He’s a 22 year old kid who had been ostracized growing up because he was ugly. And then he moved to a white community where he got made fun of, for being black. And he said his best friend at the age of 22 was 13. And the only reason he wanted to become friends with them, he said he hadn’t yet been, um, he hadn’t lost his innocence and he wanted to have a friend who actually could see him for what he was z. can you talk to me about this? This idea of if you’re an entrepreneur or a human on the planet earth right now and you’re trying to move to a place, a community or a time when people aren’t mean, why you have to just embrace how life is, you know, you do. I, I, it’s so unfortunate how we are so offended these days. You know, I’ve, I’ve spoke about this several times on our show and a radio show in her podcast and you know, I grew up in a, in an era where we used to have a saying sticks and stones can break my bones, words will never hurt me, and now it seems like we just encourage words to hurt us as much as deeply as possible and then, and then it put it on social media so that other people can be offended by those same words and be hurt by the same words and it’s just, it’s unfortunate. You know, I, I wish that we could all do like Taylor swift tells us.

Oh yeah. Oh really? Yeah. And what, what would taylor swift encourage us to do is shake it off, shake it off. This just in. We have to shake it off, shake it off. Let me just like, you’re a duck in the water. Just roll right off your back. I mean, folks, there’s going to be haters out there. The more business conferences successful you want to hate. Hey, hey, hey. Hey. There you go. Come on tanner. The more successful you are, the more jealousy there is.

That’s what I want to talk about. We come back from the break is how the more successful you become, the more promotions you get, the more problems you have. When Marshall went from being just an employee to becoming a manager, how did the level of problems increase? Oh my dot z went from being an a one employee company to a multiple employee. Can we do 100 plus employee organization? What? How much did the problems increased? Did life get easier as he grew? I mean just this promotion truly equal more problems. I believe it does. We come back from the break. Dr Z and Marshall Morris will break it down for us, but if you’re looking for a proactive accountant who’s as proactive as you are about your business, go to hood CPAS.

Calm today. That’s what CPA [inaudible] dot com today and now broadcasting live from the box that rocks. It’s the thrive time business coach radio show. The mindset stuff, for instance, on the magic button. Then given it to you straight in the bed, bring me the tracks. I could get up on the market, the facts and the cash, making the Dash, the plaques, bringing the back of the track so I could get up on the market, speak the facts.

All right. Thrive nation. Welcome back to the thrive time show on your business conferences radio and today we’re talking about the Dennis Rodman story crawling through five miles of crap and picking up the NBA trash in route, becoming an nba hall of Fame Hall of fame player DrZ. , you know, play. I love the fact that you are a voracious reader of books. True. And I love it when we break down. Awesome books. I love breaking down books. It’s just so much fun. We do the hard clay actually does the heavy lifting for you. Why did you choose this book? Of all the books we could be breaking down today? Well, there’s two big reasons. One is a kid. I stuttered a lot and I got made fun of consistently to A. I got sexually abused by a neighbor multiple times as a kid and it was like, once people heard that that happened, they shared it with other kids and it just became like, let’s make fun of this kid on the bus. Oh Wow. And so I remember that. And so I thought to myself, block that out. That’s awkward. Anytime you bring that up, people go because they don’t know what to say.


no, the car started the car right now listening to the show going well, that just happened that just pulling a truck stop to get gas for like one day I was watching, I was watching an interview about Dennis Rodman and uh, he was playing for the Chicago Bulls at the time and he explained to the interviewer that he never spoke a word to Scotty tiffin or Michael Jordan or David Robinson or anyone. He played basketball. He never said a word. And they’re like, you’ve never say a word to your teammates. He says, Nope, I’m just there to play ball, to get rebounds to win. But I do not speak to them. Did he say why he won’t break? Because he sincerely doesn’t like people and I thought to myself, that’s my guy, that’s my dad’s, because I, I can, I can relate to that. Like I want to have a business that provides a service for people, but I don’t really have a desire to be liked.

I don’t know what that is because I, I’ve, I’ve tried that before and so I picked up this book and I read the book and what he says on page 22 and I want Dr Z to break it down first. And I went to Marshall, break it down second, he says, southeastern Oklahoma University is in Duran, Oklahoma. A town of about 6,000 people compared to what I was used to was a different world bro. Process a different world again, Dennis Rodman never played organized basketball until the age of 21. He was five foot nine at the time you graduated from highschool, grew to be six foot eight, somewhat argue six foot nine at the age of 21. He gets recruited to play community college. He fails out. He gets recruited to play here at southeastern Oklahoma University and he’s on the team, so he says, I noticed the difference right away.

I was walking to class soon after I got there and some a whole leaned his head out the car window and yelled, go back home. You black son of a bitch. That happened a lot. They’d tell me, get your black boots out here. Go back to Africa, but he says there was a little kid by the name of Brian. Rich and I had met Brian at southeastern basketball camp the summer before I started school there he was 13 and I was 22. I can remember him looking at funny, which wasn’t unusual back in those days. I sometimes walked around with quarters in my ears. I know why I did it. Probably just so people would think I was crazy. Anyway, Brian and I became friends, best friends. Brian kind of fell in love with me at the camp. He was invited. He invited me over to his house for dinner and I went.

It was weird. I remember saying, why is this kid in love with me? Why does he love me so much? He goes on to explain that if you drive in Dallas today on highway 75 from Oklahoma down to Dallas and you get to the one slash 21, you’ll see Rodman excavation everywhere, but it’s these massive trucks, let’s say Rodman excavation, and he promised Brian that if he ever made it big, he would take care of Brian. So he made it to the NBA and he gave Brian all of his money and they started Rodman excavation, which is still a very huge profitable company. No way really true. Robin excavation is a massively successful company that Brian runs as a result B r y a n e as a result of him at the age of 13 befriending a 22 year old who nobody in the world light.

Wow. That is. That is awesome. And so he printed, I promise if I get to the league, I will. I will take care of you. So he goes to the NBA, he’s a 26 year old nba rookie and he calls up his friend over the age. Separation is nine years. So his buddy brian is like 17 and he’s like, Hey Brian. And he starts giving Brian is money. They started Rodman excavation, which is the largest excavation company in Texas. True deal. Okay. So this day he still makes crazy money off that. So let’s break down the action items that the listeners can apply here. Um, talk to me about this idea. Some people want to get business conferences promoted. I think once I make a lot of money, I’ll never have problems. Once you grow a company, once I grow up coming to a certain level, I could throw a middle finger to the world and it doesn’t matter because nobody can talk back to me.

I’ll be rich. And I tried that. That’s why I built DJ connection. I was hell bent on building dj connection. And once we were doing about 80 events a week, 4,000 events a year, having 100 employees, 90 employees, subcontractors, whatever I found, the more money you make, the more problems you have. According to the, to, uh, the, uh, late great philosopher, the notorious B I g, Christopher Wallace, Mo money, Mo problems. Can you talk to me about why you will you have more money? You actually have more problems. Well, I wouldn’t back up just a little bit. Sure. I want to be maybe a little offensive to it. May I? Normally that’s your bandwidth and I’ve got to clean it up. Yeah, right. But today I’m going to go there and then you can maybe clean it up a little bit. Cute. My sound effect real quick so I get emotionally prepared. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. My mother, who is an awesome, awesome woman, great American, raised nine, seven birth children. She adopted two more, raised nine. Great Kid. Wow. Uh, all productive. And uh, last I checked today, I could probably Google not in prison, all college educated, all doing great. Thanks mom. Love Ya. But, um, she taught me some, a concept back in the day, back in the day. Can we go back in the day? Couldn’t let, let’s go back in the day. Let’s go back in the day. Back when time was right and she taught me this concept and the concept was be nice to all the ugly girls. Why is that offensive? Does that offend you? Be Nice to all the ugly girls. Yes. That’s offensive. That’s to be able to determine that a woman would be not. Yeah, and uglies. Burt Herman, I, I just, I personally can’t even tell if someone’s attractive or not. That’s how a unoffensive I am. The point was, was to be nice to everyone obviously, but the way she said it, the way we kind of played with it, it was, it was in the reasons why we’re this is because the ugly girls have pretty friends.

The ugly girls might become pretty bright marshall. Remember now? And these are dating, dating, dating tips right here. Yeah, right. I’m telling you right now, this is stuff you need to write to write this down. Okay. And that’s exactly what that 13 year old boy was doing. I mean, I mean obviously, you know, they were friends and he was just being nice to somebody that nobody else was being nice to for a number of reasons like dentists, dentist puts in his book. He says, you know, I was not, you know, I was not well liked by anybody, by any genre, by any group of people. He felt that African Americans did not like him because he was ugly. He said it was marked in the project. So we went to a white community where he thought he’d be accepted and people didn’t like them there either. Right? Exactly. And so some young boy took a flyer and said, hey, you know what? I don’t know enough to know that I shouldn’t be nice to you, but I’m going to do what is the right thing to do and that is to be nice to you. And now look at the dividend that is paid for him in life. I mean, seriously, ready to enter the thrive time. Show on the bottom from the bottom. Now we’re on the top, you the systems to get. But we got convictions on the hooks, opportune the books, cds, Brigit some wisdom and the look. That’s what I’m adopt. So if you see my wife and kid, please tell them hot seat and see it. Now, three, two, one. Here we go.

You never know. The end of the story in Rodman said that on page 23 of his book, he said we were both Brian and I said we were both

coming off hard times and we were both confused about stuff in our lives. I was trying to decide where my life was going and Brian was trying to deal with having shot and killed his best friend accidentally in a free country accident. So I don’t care what you’re dealing with in life. I mean, Dennis Rodman’s probably gone through it a Z. Brian’s probably gone through it. I mean everybody out there who’s had some success in their life has probably gone through a massive adversity, but I think a lot of people, the first sign of adversity, they tend to go into retreat mode. They tend to say, oh, life’s not fair, and they get all upset and they go on facebook and they write a post on instagram and then it’s just, you can’t do that.

You’re right. And then, and now to kind of answered their question that you wanted to ask me, and that is, is that if you let anything anyone says or doe or do, rob your joy, shame on you. Let me say that again. If you let anything someone says or does, rob your joy, shame on you because you’re in control of your own happiness. You don’t have to wait for some event to happen. You don’t have to wait for your lottery numbers to be called. You don’t have to wait for joy is something you can have immediately and happiness and content and where you are. Because so many people I know are not content because they’re waiting for. Fill in the blank. Fill in the blank, fill in the blank. Once I get, once I find a wife, I’ll be happy. Once I find a career, I’ll be happy. Once I find A. I think

a lot of people think that once they find something, they’re going to be happy. But in this book, Dennis Rodman is bad as I want to be. He explains that he basically went from, I grew up in poverty where he was mocked, as he said, for being ugly in an African American community, to being a. He graduates from high school. He ends up working at the airport. He’s 21 years old. He gets arrested for stealing watches. When he graduated from high school, he’s five foot nine. He grows to be six foot eight. He’s 21 years old. His sister who played division one college basketball, encouraged him to try out for a team. He tries out per diem. He fills out for failing out academically. He finds himself now living in southeastern Oklahoma University in Durant, Oklahoma where people are making fun of him because of the color of his skin.

Well, if you’re a six foot eight and your freakishly athletic and you’re playing basketball at a high level martial, what do you think is going to happen? People are going to begin to notice you’re six foot eight doesn’t hide well. Um, I can speak for experience. You walk into a room and immediately people turn heads and I wasn’t freakishly athletic like Dennis Rodman. But if you can play basketball well and you can get out there and showcase your athletic ability, you’re going to get some people to notice. So on the college campus, he had a hard time making business conferences friends because he’s antisocial. So now he’s 22 years old. His best friend is a 13 year old and he writes on page 25. Marshall was book as bad as I want to be, bad as I want to be. Dennis Rodman writes, he says, Brynn is still my best friend today.

He helps to run my construction company, Rodman excavation in Frisco, Texas. And we talk all the time. We both went through a lot together and that’s a strong bond number. Brynn was a 13 year old kid who accidentally killed somebody in a hunting accident. He’s a 13 year old kid, Z and he accidentally killed him, was 13 at the time. He was 12 and he accidentally killed his best friend while hunting shot him. Wow. And so nobody in the town wanted to talk to him because they thought that he had murdered his friend. All the shirts and Dennis is 22 and he’s a freak of nature. Nobody wants to talk to him because so the 13 year old and a 22 year old become friends. So he goes on to explain that while playing basketball, he begins to dominate the game and he begins to play at a different level which begins to attract the attention of people that um, you know, previously wouldn’t talk to him.

He writes on page 28 of his book that as I want to be, he writes, it was like a fairy tale. I couldn’t believe that this person took an interest in my life. I couldn’t believe a man like this existed. He just laid it out, lay it all on the line and let me know that I could make something out of myself if I wanted to face up to reality. There was no cloud over any of it. It was all straight to the point. Clear as day. He looked at me, he looked at everything straight ahead. Everything was on a line from one point to the next. He wasn’t the type of person who would sit down and tell me I could be a famous basketball player if I wanted to or so he says, he says he wasn’t the type a. It wasn’t the type who would sit down and tell me I could be a famous basketball player if I wanted it bad enough.

He wouldn’t fill my head with that stuff because it wasn’t really. His style and steady would say, whatever you do, make it positive, make it what you want it to be, not what somebody else wants it to be. He’s describing Brynne’s father, so Brynne’s father takes him in as his kind of his own son and start teaching. Start teaching them about how life works and so he’s just telling him, Dennis, just apply yourself. Just do whatever you can do. Just play at the best level you can possibly play. And so Dennis Rodman is like, well, you know, a Bryn who’s my friend who’s 13, and his dad’s telling me just do display at the next level. Just play as hard as you can. And so z at the age of 25, a lot of people graduate from college. Marshall what age? Twenty one. Twenty one. Twenty two at the age of 25.

He writes here on page 29. He says, after my senior year at southeastern, I was like this, this side show for the NBA. They looked at my statistics and he looked at my age, but then I was late 25 and they didn’t know what to make of me. They love my body and my speed. They all kept saying I could have made the Olympics in the 400 meters, but they weren’t sure if I was right. He said we weren’t sure if I had the right game for the NBA. He goes on to explain that he was a guy who was getting, you know, 15 to 20 rebounds a game. But if you ever watched an Z, have you ever watched Dennis Rodman shoot a free throw. If you’re watched him shoot a free throw shots, it’s. It hurts. I’m going to play it for you during the break so you can watch him.

But Dennis Rodman cannot. Could not shoot a basket because he never played formal basketball until he was 21 years old and they were playing organized basketball until he’s 21 years old. So he realized, I don’t know how to shoot, I can’t score, but Marshall, you played basketball at a high level. You played professionally as well as college basketball. How can you dominate a game without scoring a point a, you make all the hustle plays. So there’s a set of plays throughout the, the course of a game where you got to have somebody to make them. They’re 50 slash 50. They could go either way and typically it’s the team that hustles more in, wants it more, has more effort out on the court, and so, uh, whether that’s rebounding or trying to save a loose ball or, or making a steel, those are the plays that ended up winning you.

The game winning. It’s coming down close. Now. Dennis Rodman rights here on page 30 of his book. He says, the guy who was drafted, one pick ahead of me was greg dreiling or maybe great drilling, a seven foot center from Kansas who averaged two point two points per game and two point two rebounds for game in his career. He says, I guess they can say he’s consistent on page 35. He writes, after going through what I had gone through to get here, there was no way in hell I was going to let it slip without putting up a fight. I figured I’d made it to the league the hard way, so why not stay in it the hard way to the hard way and the MBA is through defense and rebounding. The two things that guys would rather not do. There’s not a guy in the business conferences league besides me who doesn’t want to score.

I don’t want to score. I want to win. Wow. That is some deepness there. Deep dive in that a little bit, how that affects entrepreneurship. Why would just say as a business owner, that’s all I’m about, man. I don’t. I’m not about like whether you like me or not, Z, I’m about no brainer advertisements and you’re crazy about and you’ve told me before. Those are. You’ve said if your ad is so good, if your, if your. If your ad does not make your competition went to throat, punch you, it’s not a good ad. That’s fine. What do you mean by that? If it’s not offensive to your, your competition, then

you’re not doing as much as you need to do, and I and I know,

oh, that sounds mean we didn’t even mean button, but the thing about it is is that it’s a business. This is going to maybe be offensive. This is Dennis Rodman’s shows. We got gotta. We got to offend everybody, right? The offensive show, just the title of the show and that is that business is war. Business is. You may think it’s a Koombaya know I’ve liked minded people slicing up the pie all working together. I said, same piece of Pie.

No business is all about you trying to eat all of them.

You know what’s offensive when someone cuts up a pizza and the slices aren’t exactly the same fence, you think to yourself, why? Why did you choose that you was not offensive or simply chiropractic? Tulsa’s number one, chiropractor. If you’re looking for Tulsa’s number one chiropractor, go to Dr John Sibling Dot Com. Dr John Sibley Dot Com. Three, two, one. You are now entering the Dojo of Mojo. The thrive time show, thrive time. Show on the microphone. What is this? Top of the charts in the cattle business driven down on business conferences topics like we need to shift. If we go past that, you might get motion sick, rather pitty pat schrute bucks in three, two, one. Here come the business, thrive nation. Welcome back to the thrive time show on your radio, and today we’re talking to

about the life and times of Dennis Rodman. We’re explaining to Dennis Rodman’s story crawling through five miles of crap and picking up the NBA is trash en route to an nba hall of fame career. Now on page 35 of Dennis Rodman’s book, he writes, after everything I had gone through to get there, there was no way in hell I was going to let it slip away without putting up a fight. I figured I made it to the league the hard way. I didn’t play organized basketball until I was 21 years old. I was six. I was five foot nine and when I graduated from high school, I’m six foot eight, six foot eight, the age of 21 for the first time in my life, and I played organized basketball. I said, so why not stay in the hard way to the hard way in the NBA is through defense and rebounding.

The two things guys would rather not do. There’s not a guy in the league besides me who does not want to score. That’s why no one can believe me. I don’t want to score. All I want to do is when I was playing Adrian Brantley everyday in practice and I set out to make his life miserable. I was going to shut him down if it meant dying out there on the practice floor. I shut him down a few times and then he’d score on me. It went like that for awhile, but then I realized I was shutting him down a lot more than he was scoring in the middle of my second season. Dantley hurt his ankle and daily put me into the starting lineup. Coach Chuck Daly, we went. We were 500 when Dantley went down, but we took off with me in the starting lineup of the first 24 games I started. We won 20. We just beat people up and daily played me all over the court. I played the small forward mostly, but he’d put me inside against power, forwards and outside against tough shooting guards, wherever you needed me, wherever he needed defense. That’s where I was. The worm was my nickname.

He goes on to explain. It was hard for him to understand that his name is nicknamed. The worm was all over the headlines when he said is that as a kid, the reason why he got the nickname the worm was because when he played pinball games as a kid, people used to make fun of the way he squirmed around while playing the game. He says on page 20 or page 36, he writes, it was amazing for me to see him, the name warm in the headlines. It was pretty amazing for me to see that nickname that I had been given as a little kid for the way I wiggled around when I played pinpoll pinball splashed across the headlines in the Detroit papers. The people were into it, into what I was giving them because it was so fresh and exciting. They knew basketball and they appreciated my style up Z. Dennis Rodman played basketball with this maniacal rage as though at any given point he could go back to working at the dfw airport as a janitor.

Well, will. We all could go back to working, but that’s how you. But that’s how you play. That’s how you play business. Can I tell you a true story? Yes. So my senior year at northeastern State University in Tahlequah, Oklahoma, America, this just hurt basketball team was fairly salty and we were in a I a at the time come on and we had a team coming into town to challenge us on our home court. Whoa. From southeast, from grant, from state, and they had a big banner they put up there that said, hook the worm, hook the worm and the worm on the banner. Who was the worm? That is Robin Z. You know what this means? What

it means. The Dennis Rodman show, North Korea’s why? American ambassador to North Korea. Since previous to Donald Trump over multiple decades, Dennis Rodman, the show we do is about Dennis Rodman. And now you say you went to college. That play against Dennis Rodman. I tell him, did his Rodman might be the answer. He reached up and he took the and he said, I got your pebble. Does blow my mind.

True story, true story, true story Z. He played basketball every single day in practice. He said like he had an opportunity to be cut and go back to the DFW airport working as a janitor. Can you talk about that dragon energy that you and Kanye West and Donald trump and Dennis Rodman and you have. Anybody who’s successful has the dragon energy talk about it? I love the dragons, the dragon energy energy. Why not? It is what the thing about it is, if you know where you started from, if you know where you came from and you’re pushing forward, you know that any false move, any bad move, you can slide back to there, but the good news is you know that you could still drive forward anyway, but there’s a. there’s a. there’s a fight in you. There’s a drive in you that says, you know what, I’m gonna. Hope it gets done right.

I’m going to know it gets done. It gets done, and it might mean an extra 10 hours a week, might mean an extra 15 hours. We’ll do whatever it takes. You’ll do whatever it takes, right? You will delay gratification, whatever, however that looks. You’ll do whatever you have to do. You’re right because you want what you want, you want what you want, and that is so awesome and that’s why I think breaking down Dennis Rodman as much as he gets. I mean, hang on folks, because it’s going to get. Could get a little snout. One. Business conferences host Marshall, I want to read this to you about Dennis Rodman here. Okay. He says the next year again in the eastern conference finals, I was on Larry Bird, the whole series. There were guys I could intimidate with my eyes or by getting in there and not letting them move, but bird wasn’t. One of them.

Taking him on was like playing a computer game. You had to try to get into his mind, anticipated when he was going to do next. The hardest part. That was the hardest part because he was always thinking ahead of everybody else on the floor. The only thing to do was get used to him watch tapes and watch him closely on the floor, on the floor and try to beat him to the spot. We played him enough that I started to get used to him, but it was never comfortable. Even though he wasn’t fast and he didn’t go much for fancy dunks or anything like that, bird was one of the few white guys who could play what people called the black game. I respected Larry. I respected anybody could go out there and kick my and he did it often and I would respect him as long as the game was on, but afterward, no way I’d walk off the floor thinking I just got my boob kicked by a white guy. I don’t. Larry respected me at the beginning. He talked a lot of his whole career, but I remember him during the first eastern conference finals. He was talking so much. It was like I got used to it. He was mostly asking everybody who was guarding him. He’d be looking around asking me, who’s guarding me? Is Somebody guarding me? Is Anybody guarding me? Sometimes he’d asked me directly, is anybody guarding me?

So Larry Byrd, I already is a favorite smack talk.

Oh my gosh. So talk to me about smack talking because you played college basketball. That’s right. But also about as a business owner, I mean is there not so much emotional? I mean you have to be emotionally strong to run a successful company and you have to be emotionally strong to play at the NBA level. I mean Dennis Rodman was famous, famous for shoving his thumb into the butts of poet, opposing players for an tying their shoelaces for constantly talking horribly about people during the game because he would get into her head. So as a business owner, as a business coach, as an NBA player, why do you have to have a strong head game? You gotTa have a strong head game because you have to have self awareness of knowing what the things that you’re good at and not good at. You have to be able to manage your own emotions and they can’t be out of control because if your emotions are out of control, you’re not going to be able to manage the emotions of other people. And you have to be engaged. So number one, you have to be able to manage your own emotions in to. You have to be engaged with your business. Nobody drifts to a successful business. Then it’s that again, say that again. Nobody drifts their way to a successful business. You don’t just like show up every single day to the office in all of a sudden you’re successful. Uh, we have, uh, uh, I want to break this, this next notable quotable from Dennis Rodman down on page 43 of his book here. Marshall’s. Here we go.

One time, Darryl, walk on the Washington bullets. He tried to kick me when he tried to. He tried to spit on me. I had given him a little shot here and there. And so he decided he was not going to retaliate that way. I was eating this up. This is what I did for him. He spit, but he missed me though. That was the only bad part. I wanted him to hit me with his spit right there on the court. I told them, if you’re going to spit at me, make sure you hit me in the face. Don’t be wasting my time wasting. I don’t care, Bro. Spits on me. Yeah, that’s me kicking me. Whatever you do is going to pump me up more. The worse you do, the more I liked it.

That’s crazy. It’s crazy. Yes, but that dragon in getting their mind. I love it.

This is. This is what’s so good. I mean, Dennis Rodman was five foot nine and when he graduated from high school, he gets arrested for stealing watches while working at the DFW airport. Then he grows to a freakishly tall heights and, and, and he’s, he’s 20. He’s 21 years old. All of a sudden he’s massive. We went from like age 18, a 21. All of a sudden he’s like, okay, I should probably play basketball and I’m six foot eight. He goes to the NBA. He still can’t shoot at all at all. Dude. If you watch him, his free throws, they’re crazy. Don’t do it. He literally cannot shoot free throws. Could you imagine what it would be like to not be able to shoot the ball?

Yeah. Herrmann shack. Having a game of horse ever lasts the rest of their lives, but he said, you know what I could do? I could play defense and I could rebound. Yeah, she says on page 47 of his book, he says, the year we won, our second title was the year I won my first defensive player of the year. They presented me with a trophy at the banquet and when they gave it to me I cried. I couldn’t believe this was me. To me that was a sign that I made it all the way, all the way from nowhere I had set out to play defense and rebound. I was recognized now as the best if it’s a player in the NBA. As I stood up there receiving the award, I thought about how far I had came and how many people helped me get there. When all that comes rushing back at me, I can’t hold it in. So I think if you’re out there and you’re saying to yourself,

Gosh, you know, I don’t have a whole lot of talent. You can be successful Z as long as you’re willing to do whatever it takes. And that’s a business conferences challenge. I think a lot of people aren’t willing to do whatever it takes. So Z, I’m going to ask you this.

I like it like that.

You give it to us real and raw. Come on, talk to me about the importance of willing to do whatever it takes. If you want to become self employed fist just in this, just at four percent, 67 percent of you out there have a burning desire to do your own thing. Right and listen, we’re here to help you do your own thing, your own thing. We’ve got all kinds of goodies and toys and tip templates and foot paths and workshops and systems and coaching to help you, but you know what? You’ve got to want it maniacally above anything else right now in your life. It’s got to be number one in your life right now to do it successfully, and I think about one of our listeners out there, Marshall, can you brag about our good friends at Williams contracting? Oh yeah. Travis, Travis Williams. They do a phenomenal job. They do construction management and general contracting. They built things like schools, add onto big commercial buildings, et Cetera, and if you want to get in touch with them, you just go to Will Dash [inaudible] dot com, uh, that’s Travis Williams over there and those guys deliver. They’re going to get done on time and on budget because they care and it’s Williams contracting. Stay too.

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All right, thrive nation. Welcome back to the thrive time show on your radio and podcast download, and for those of you who have subscribed to our podcast and who took the time to leave us an objective review, thus making us the number one podcast in the world and believable. Oh, categories. Thank you so much. Do you think about how little talent that we have? Little, when you think about how little skill we have, little, when you think about how little we know about most things, it’s amazing. It’s amazing. You’ve helped us to get to the top of the itunes podcast charts and we thank you so much, which is why we’re returning the favor today. Thrive nation. Clay. Clay.

I’m sorry. I’m sorry. No, I don’t want to call you out, but I am the parent on the show.


Being just a little disingenuous. What? Nobody in the business, a podcast slash radio show works harder, prepares more, is more maniacal than you. I’ll say that again, but I won’t. You and this show deserve to be number one. I’ll be it for a few hours every week. I mean there’s 550,000 podcasts out there. Give or take it from you. I mean give or take. It’s true. Don’t call me a liar. Over 20 or $30,000 and you know what? I know you’re taking the high road and you’re being a little disingenuous, but I don’t know. A man who worked harder on preparing for radio show I. He then gets turned into a podcast then gets distributed around the world via the Internet. Thank you. Our goal.

Thank you. Alvin Gore. Alvin, this, Justin. I will say this though, John and I have kind of a weird relationship going right now, Jonathan Kelly, because he will put a topic that I need to work on quote unquote over the business conferences weekend. Okay. And so this past weekend there was 13 thrivers who had questions and business plans and so I had to record 13 separate podcasts over the weekend and my head almost exploded because do all of this before noon. Everyday between three and noon everyday. I’m just like recording, recording. And today John is the hardest working. I’m the second hardest working. And you’re sort of like the Chuck Daley of the show. Yeah. Chuck Daly, who was Dennis Rodman’s coach. Yeah. I’m Kinda of the Chuck Daly, except we had much better hair than I do now. I mean, you got to admit he had much better hair than I did. Z. Speaking of your incredible, incredible hair.

Let’s talk about the Dennis Rodman story on today’s show. We’re talking about today, which sounds crazy, but Dennis Rodman story, uh, today’s crawling through five miles of crap and picking up the Mbas trash in route to making it to the hall of fame on page 52 of Dennis Rodman’s book. As bad as I want to be bad as I want to be by Dennis Rodman, a man who by the way graduated high school at the age of five foot eight or five foot nine, didn’t play organized basketball until the age of 21. Went on to be an NBA rookie at the age of 26. He writes in his book, page 52, he says, when Chuck Daly left the team, he was fired. I think he took some of me with him. Oh, I couldn’t take it when they fired him. I respected chuck daily more than anyone in the league, and it killed me to have to play the last year there without him.

The way he treated the without him, the way he was treated his last three years there wasn’t right. He had a one year contract every year, even though we were winning back to back titles. His money wasn’t even guaranteed. I saw how this business works by watching how they treated Chuck Daly, we obviously had a big, uh, uh, he was a fan of Chuck Daly and Chuck Daly Mentor Dennis and told them, Dennis Rodman. Here’s the deal. We’ve drafted you from a small school in Duran, Oklahoma, and if you want to be in the NBA, you have to play a maniacal, intense level of defense and you have to rebound. What did you have handy? What position and round he was drafted in. I do not have the Marshall can pull it up on the show notes as he’s pulling that up. I wanna I wanna get this. This is a teaching moment for all the listeners. Okay. Everybody needs a mentor. Everybody needs a bank. West Carter, the top attorney. You guys have winters and king. You guys have been illegal, uh, authority of choice for td. Jakes, for Joel Osteen, for Craig, Rochelle, for Joyce Meyers. Um, now you, you run a lot of the daily operations at winters and king. But do you remember what it was like to be mentored by Tom Winters, your, your partner and the Co founder of winters and King?

I do. Both of my founders, Mike King and Tom Winters when I was young, coming in, taught me a lot of very valuable lessons that I know looking back, save me a lot of heartache and a lot of trouble. And uh, there’s just certain things that only people who have already walked in those shoes can teach you. The only other way to do it is to live through those mistakes yourself, which obviously the easy choices learn from other people’s mistakes. Say that again. So there are certain things that you only are going to grasp and learn and digest by learning from someone who’s already walked in your shoes, done what you’re doing. And if you don’t do that, your only other alternative is live through those mistakes. Live through those consequences. And it’s an easy choice when you look at it that way. So I don’t want to paraphrase, but I want to paraphrase. Oh Wow. So you’re saying you can learn through mentorship or mistakes, correct. Your choice, that was a very much more succinct way of putting it. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I’m just trying to paraphrase. Not Paraphrase. Yes. Well said.

This is something I want to. I want to bring up. Marshall mentors have to be comfortable with having an uncomfortable conversation fact and if a mentor is truly mentoring you and you hear me say this all the time to our office staff, I say, do you want me to actually mentor you and teach you what you need to know or do you want me to just make you feel how the way you need to feel to move on. I mean do you one of the real, the real knowledge or that, that bogus false kindness because mentorship that’s unwanted will create resentment. So Z, I want to get your take on that and I want to get Marshall’s.

No, I’m going to ask you clay. Yeah. What was the conversation you had when you were a young man? You were in your grunge. I don’t know if it’s, I wouldn’t say grunge, but you were in your hip hop or hip hop, you know hip hop opera. You are in your other state of clay as like Eminem, eminem. You were playing a role model are CNC. Right, right, right. What was the hard thing a mentor said to you? What? I know it’s probably. What is it?

Well, Clifton Taulbert, a few rough things. Then you told me a few rough things. Okay. Claire said, rich people have big libraries and poor people have big TVS. Oh, but making it safe to say that it. Say that again. He said, rich people have big libraries and poor people have big TVS. And what did he. What did you take from that? I was just like. I kept telling him I didn’t have time to read books. I told him I didn’t have time. I him. I was afraid of the rejection of making cold calls and he said, listen, I wasn’t allowed to go into the front door of a bank as a business conferences kid and now I helped start the first bank west of the Mississippi, owned by an African American. Listen, you’ve got to pick up the phone and if you fear rejection, I’m paraphrasing, he said, if you fear rejection by default, you will be rejected.

Wow, and then you told me I have to advertise or I’m an idiot. Basically was the summary. If you’re out there and you say to yourself, what is the tough mentorship that I need? The tough mentorship that you need is you need to learn from mentors or mistakes and if you want to have your Ford automobile repaired by someone who actually knows what they’re doing as opposed to watching a diy video and screwing up your car, go to RC auto specialists. Tulsa. I repeat to you, go to RC auto specialist, the number one Ford automotive repair shop in the region. That’s RC auto That’s RC auto specialist.

That gum and now broadcasting live from the box that rocks. It’s the thrive time business coach radio show, the mindset stuff. For instance, on the magic button, that was a thing. Then a site map given it to you straight in the.

She can bring me the track so I could get up on the market. Speak the cash, making the Dash. We’re going to back track so I could get up on the market, speak the facts nation, we’re breaking down the Dennis Rodman story, crawling through five miles of sewage crap and picking up the Mbas trash in route to becoming an nba hall of Fame Basketball Player. Nosy. I’m going to read to you a lot of times story served from Dennis Rodman’s book. Oh, bad. As I want to bet on a bedtime story and I want to start this. I want to start the story by by sharing something you taught me. Okay. Clay Clark, Clay Clark. It’s the best selling book that we talk about. Not the best written. It’s the best. It’s the best marketed optometrist that makes the most money, not the smartest, smartest, that’s for sure. So I’m going to read. I have to keep my epic music so it get awkward. Okay. I’m going to read for probably two minutes and then you can break it down. So here we go by music, right? Here we go. Here we go. Page 58 of Dennis Rodman. Philosophy,

philosophy, book. Bad as I want to bed. So Derrick Coleman of the New Jersey Nets did not bring people to the building. Like I do. Attendance in San Antonio was second to the NBA. My first year there. They filled, they moved into the Alamo Dome that year so they had more seats to sell and my presence. Hope that’s part of the reason they got me. We averaged over 20 2053 fans a game my first year there. The only other team to average more than 20,000 attendance was the Charlotte Hornets. Whoever for the $23,000. I had never been as far as the western conference until I got that Goddamn 19, 94. We had the best record and went to the conference finals. David Robinson one the most valuable business conferences player on mentors. Largely because I was taking most of the rebounding pressure off him. I bring something to the people, the people. Derrick Coleman doesn’t. Chris Duffy doesn’t end the pay.

Chris Dudley six spending a year base. It doesn’t do what I do in the New York Knicks. Signed it before me. And uh, yeah, 4 million to me, none of this. I’ve learned something through all my years of diving for loose balls coming from. It’s coming down with a flamboyant rebounds. People want excite, enjoy winning team. You also want something different. The first time I colored my hair, I knew I walked out onto the court in San Antonio with that bleach blonde hair. And right away I saw how much the people involved what Dennis Rodman. The excitement was right down right now. That’s, that’s what this game is about. And all I ask is that somebody said it and appreciate it. It’s no different than a waitress wouldn’t acknowledge when people coming back to her restaurant because our service is good. I feel I’ve been used for the past four or five years, divided the team into the fans. They used me for marketing in San Antonio because they knew I was popular with the fans. Other teams did the same thing when we were on the road. You can watch the commercials for the other team and hear the, hear them telling people, come out and watch Dennis Rodman in the San Antonio Spurs. Same thing on radio.

Sure. Pay Me my money, show me the money. So Dennis Rodman explains that until he colored his hair, they never featured them on commercials until he started being weird and getting all the tattoos. He was never in the commercials, but once he got all the tattoos and started getting crazy, boy people lined up to pay him. Z. Seth Godin.

Purple cow complete. No. My sense is I love it. That’s how good we’re working together. He found his purple cow. Right, and that’s what everybody out there that has a business. Everybody out there that wants to have a business needs to do. You need to be able to separate yourself from everybody else in your industry. And what he did is he said, you know what? I’m a great player. I’m contributing to the team, but you know what? I’m going to take it up a notch. I’m going to take it up or not. Because the NBA, like a lot of professional sports is about entertainment. What basketball is. Are you saying the NBA is about entertainment?

Yeah, I’ll repeat it. The NBA is about entertainment two.

You might think it’s about the same. I think it’s about the triangle offense. Are you saying that Jack cometry is about marketing? Optometry?


Yes. Are you saying banking is about marketing banking? Yes. Are you trying to tell oxy fresh, clean a carpet is about marketing. Carpet cleaning. Oh, this changes everything. Oh my gosh. This is crazy. So now I want to. I want to get your take on it. Marshall Morris, his take on it, be acclaimed business coach and Co author of the Amazon bestselling book start here and pretty well. First of all I’ve been issue. Yeah.

Marshall is about the same height as said. Dennis Rodman, that we’re doing the book line. Right. And Marshall

reportedly play professional basketball. I, I, I, I didn’t go to Costa Rica and watch him. I don’t know. He could’ve Freekeh he couldn’t lay down on the beach drinking my ties and paddle boarding. I don’t, I don’t know. There’s Costa Rica, there’s the coast of Africa. Late night glows. Marshall played in the late nights. Look. Oh, they closed the coast of Africa. But anyway, I’m kind of going, if he could do that, then why don’t we dye his hair, right? Get them out there, get into tattoos and piercings and and take a marshall to the perfect level. I need a carrot or she’ll talk to the listeners out there. Why do you have to have a purple cow for Your Business? Because if you’re not remarkable, you are invisible. Being good, being average is the riskiest thing that you can do in your business. If you’re not remarkable, you’re going to blend in with everybody else and so you need to go all in on something in your business conferences and become remarkable because if you’re not remarkable, people are not going to talk about you. Wes, Carter, winters and king. You guys stand out in a cluttered market and just for your law firm. I mean you got well, you guys were kind of like be Christian legal experts for the Gurus. How did you become that? When do you decide to niche that way? What happened?

Well, from the very beginning of the law, for one of the main practice areas at the firm had was churches and ministry. So in Tulsa, Oklahoma in the eighties, it was the belt buckle of the Bible Belt Holster Jerusalem. Right? And so we had just tons of ministry. Are you.

Can I real quick there west? I’m so sorry. You’re. You’re okay. He said, and I’m immature. Let me just Tulsa, Jerusalem, back to us. So again, last second.

Well, we talked about some of the things Tom Winters had mentored me on and that’s one of the things he told me early was a, being a good attorney is a lot about marketing because if you can’t get clients in the door, your skills are useless. Oh. So part of the way we differentiate ourselves is by a claim, you know, upholding first of all, and then marketing our integrity, our faith, our principles that we can still go out there and kick tell for you and do it in a way that’s honorable and with integrity.

If you’re out there listening and you say to yourself, you know what? I want to become successful. I’m so tired of kicking tires and trying to figure out how to make my business better and go into all these random workshops and you just say, I want to attend the world’s best business workshop and learn the proven. I asked you to do two actions tasks. Go to thrive time, and itunes. That’s action step number one, subscribe and leave us a review. That’s action step number two. It will take you about 60 seconds. Email is proof. Did it to info at thrive time,, and we’ll send you two free tickets and it will change your life. Stay tuned. You are now entering the Dojo of Mojo and the thrive time show,

kick it on the bike and can focus on the teachers. Keep casting bands. Yes, she paints and now I’m afraid you’ve got to come up and now it’s kicked back and get up. Nation. Welcome back to the Audio Dojo of Mojo recently. If you’re in the know, you now know that we have reached the top of the itunes podcast charts that twice. I’m not just accounting, I’m not, I’m not wanting, not that we put our value is humans based upon her itunes? No, we don’t rank, but I would say I feel good about myself as a human and you should, but before we were top of the itunes charts, I thought about listening to our podcast. I mean, so it never seriously what thrive nation. I appreciate you subscribing, recommending it to your friend and you might say, well, Hey, I want to participate. What can I do? If you subscribe to the podcast, that’s like a three pointer for the thrive nation. That’s where it affects your rank. By the way, if you subscribed, that’s like a three pointer. If you leave us an objective review, that’s like a two pointer.

Yeah, it’s just like a layup share with a friend or listened. That’s a good one point. I was like a free throw. Yeah. And so, you know, speaking a basketball under like the grandma shack, or is it, can I, can I ever make a free throw? Do we know that Dennis Rodman did make a free throw? And as we’re talking today about Dennis Robin and his book, bad as I want to be, I want to reset the story for anybody just now. Tuning in. Dennis Rodman at the age of 18 was between five foot nine and five foot 10 and heights. Right? He’s been working at working at the airport for the DFW airport. He’s 21 and he gets arrested for stealing watches. That’s the dude that stole my watch. His sister. What happened to my sister is a division one athlete, Division One basketball player. And she says, Dennis, I don’t know if you’re aware, but you’re now probably six foot nine, six eight.

Why don’t we try to play basketball? So he plays basketball for the first time on an organized level at the age of 21 gets kicked off the team for filling out academically. What? No, you got. You got some random person signed playing in this pickup league said go trap for a junior college. And he did. And he did. And he got a scholarship filled out after like a business conferences semester. Right? Because right then a coach from Doran is like, Hey, we’ll give you a second shot. Next thing you know, he’s playing in Duran Oklahoma age 26 NBA rookie. Now he’s dominating the NBA at this point on page 77 of the player of the year. Bad as I want to be. Defensive Player of the year, shutting down other teams and this is a long term, a long, a long form. Notable quotable Marshall. I’m gonna. Read it from page 77. Marshall kind of get me fair enough.

Marshall fire get you fired up. I want to make sure I’m ready to go.

What? Make sure. Marie Clay Clark. Introducing the US small business entrepreneur of the year. Okay. Ending six foot five. Oh yes. And weighing. Who knows?

And I’m not six foot five. I’m six [inaudible] one. But here we go. So Dennis Rodman writes here. He says, one thing they might found out, they might find out, surprise out of how many people in the NBA would come in before a game workout, go out and play 40 minutes and then come back in after the game and work out again for another hour and a half. Yes. How many people do that? How many people don’t? It’s Dennis Rodman. Oh, which is my own name, but I’m running my own book. I go into the weight room before a game. We’ll loosen up with some lightweight Susan, lose this wrong when I go out to the floor, but I don’t want to be bulky and stiff. No. I might pull my legs up on the machine or on the stationary bicycle and listen to Pearl Pearl Jam and get my mind right to understand that Dennis Rodman would work out before and after a game and for anybody who knows anything about Dennis, Dennis Rodman or has been around him or listened to his interviews, he talks about how that was like. It was his thing. He just wanted to be the best and he never felt worthy of being on the NBA. He never like, he was worthy of being on the NBA floor and so he just, after every game he would go hit the weights again and again and again, and the guy who was always in a ridiculous, a ridiculous shape. He was always just absolutely playing at the next level and so I want to tap into that work ethics. A lot of things he probably could have done better, but he never felt worthy of being in the NBA. So after the game he would hit the weights z.

I tell you what, I don’t know that there’s a worse thing than pride. Pride is a is a horrible thing. When you have a friend or someone you’re around or someone you just met in a very prideful that just makes you, makes your skin crawl, but when you’re around someone who’s humble, when you’re around someone who is appreciative for where they are and what they’ve done, and they realized that they need to continue to work to stay in that position, that it’s just not given to them. That is so refreshing. So I would encourage everybody out there. If you’ve got a successful business, still be humble. If you want to have a successful business, still be humble. You know, pride is one of those things. It says, it comes before the fall. And, and when we find people that are prideful, that say I don’t need to do that, um, this, I don’t want that.

I mean, I’m here. I’m kind of a big deal. Dennis Rodman says this, he says, most of the time I do my fighting by saying I’ll kick your during the game. Then when the game’s over, you know, I won the war. That’s the fight. When the guy has to go back over to the bench after he has yanked from a game and he’ll say, yeah, I just got my boob being. That’s where I win. So I want to ask you, is West Carter, you’re one of the top attorneys on the planet. You guys represent Joel Olsteen, td Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Craig Rochelle, with life church when you represented me, because I might or might have not a physically assaulted my own brother. You went to court with me. I did. Out prepared. You did?

Yeah. One other thing, one of my mentors told me was, you know, if you walk into a courtroom, the other side, better facts, they may have better witnesses, you know, but don’t ever let them out. Prepare you. Come on now. Most of the cases you win, you win before you ever step into a courtroom because you’re prepared and you’re ready and you’ve done your homework and it’s like that. A lot of fields, I think, not just the law field.

Can I, can I brag on our potential pool guy? Good. Might not be the pool guy. Can I see? Can I brag on the potential pool guy? Only if you let me play this background music. Yes. So pretty cute. Okay. I want to make sure we get what you preach a little bit. We’ll call, we’ll call him robin. Okay. What am my favorite rap artist was rob base is I wanna rock right now. Rob has shown up. He is on time, on super prepared. The most interactive three d renderings I’ve seen. They’re incredible. They make me want to cry when I think about the pool and look at it like I’m going to cry. I’m going to cut. Buddy is easy to prepare and I believe the company’s artists in pools, am I correct? Artists in pools, so if you’re out there and you say, I’m looking for a pool guy that’s going to prepare even before I’ve earned their business, which by the way is how you earned the business.

Come on now. You want to check out robbie with artists and pools. I can’t say he’s the best pool guy in America. I will take photos as they’re building it. Z. We’re now the number one podcast in the world as of last week, Friday where the top 20 on the itunes for business, for the business section in the world, 530,000 podcast number one and I will post photos as we’re building and so you can judge for yourself whether robbing the blue man, Novartis and pools is the right guy. But I can tell you the preparation I’ve seen so far, he might be in a good way that Dennis Rodman of pools like that. Do you like that? I do like tea. Talk to me about the importance. When you hire people, you promote people or you partner with people like Monte. How much of a factor does it play into you deciding to team up with somebody if they’re a grinder or not?

Well, you want that. You want. You want someone that’s going to work a day. What if you’ve got to row a boat and that’s what business is. And what you do is you pick people to get in the boat and row row and sometimes you get a guy that’s in there is like, I think I’ve got carpal tunnel. Hey Bro, I’m not thinking too much gluten. You know what? I got to get a break right now and just try. I’m not going to row for a little law, which I know we may go in the wrong direction, but you know what? I’m just kind of slipped back. Just, you know, and I, you know, I think carpal tunnel sign, little hot, it’s, there’s, is there some kind of a sign break I could get right here, getting flushed. I was like, I’ve been rowing for awhile.

I just, I am. I. Am I on? Is this a union rowing job? I’m not sure. When do we get our union break? The thing about it is you all, you want doers on your two white guys that want to come on your team and say, you know what? We’re going to get this thing done. And when you acknowledge those business conferences and you’ll find him and you, you, you know the make and model, once you get around them, you’re like, that’s the make and model. Yes. I show up on time. They overdeliver, they bring it up.

Oh, waivable red pool on. But before they even have the double stack pile up, come on, come on. I mean, I did. I did say that she needed. I had an ice maker to the thing. Can I say this? But I was watching the interactivity. I fought back the tears, but it was like the final scene of titanic where she says check and he says, Jack Rose, Jack Rosen. He drifts into the abyss and dies of freezing. That kind of emotion. That’s how I felt when I looked at Henry. It was good to see. It was so good, so good. So good. So I’m going to hit the eyes and Marshall. One other thing, it’s so good. When his Duis is our in person. Thrive time, show workshops, martial arts, and everybody go to thrive time and book their tickets for our next in person. Thrive time show business workshop. It is a laser show of business. It’s 15 hours of business coaching over two days. It’s a fire hose of knowledge. He got to come out here. It’ll be practical tips for your business. You gotta check it out. If you go to thrive time We’ve got the podcast, the one on one business coaching thousands of videos to workshops. It’s all there. Check it out today at thrive time, Location, thrive time And as always, three, two, one.


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