Business Coach | Dr. Z’s 10 Rules of Business Rules #1-#5

Business Coach | Ask Clay & Z Anything

Audio Transcription

Business Coach 171

Learn From The Best Business Coach : Podcast Transcript

Learn the secret sauce to business success in this episode as Business Coach, Clay Clark,  and Dr. Z bring on Steve Currington and Coach Calvert to see how they use Dr. Z’s 10 rules in there businesses.

Voice-over: And now, broadcasting from the center of the universe in the world headquarters.

Let’s go.

Presenting the world’s only business school without the “BS”, with optometrist entrepreneur and Business Coach Dr. Robert Zoellner, and the former small business administration entrepreneur of the year in your ear, Clay Clark. It’s the Thrive Time Show on talk radio 1170. Three, two, one. Boom.


Clay Clark: Hello and greetings Tulsa, Oklahoma. You are listening to the Thrive Time Show during your afternoon and I am super excited about today’s content, today’s show. It’s going to be awesome. My name is Clay Clark. I’m the former SBA entrepreneur of the year and I am here to help you learn how to start and grow a successful business. And to help you do that we have the co host with the mo-host, it’s Dr. Robert Zoellner on the show today. Sir, how are you?

Dr. Robert Zoellner: What is up thrive nation? I tell you, what a great weekend. You know we got a little bit of snow here in Tulsa. So, for those of you who don’t or are not in the Tulsa area, and listening to this around the world we actually got a little of snow this weekend and kind of made it festive and had my big company Christmas party on Saturday and I’m proud to say.

Clay: Proud to say.

Dr. Zoellner: That there were no fights [laughs].

Clay: No fights.

Dr. Zoellner: I took a big group picture and I got, there’s like 250 people there or something.

Clay: There was a lot of people, there was a lot of people and allegedly, they are all getting paychecks from you.

Dr. Zoellner: Allegedly, they are? You were there with your lovely bride Vanessa?

Clay: Do you feel like? Do you ever feel bad that all of those people are working for you and ever feel like, is that ethical having people work with you or for you? Is that ethical?

Dr. Zoellner: No, one it’s humbling. And two there is a great burden and responsibility on me because a lot of people are sitting out there in that group photo I was looking at it going. “Oh my goodness, all those people relying on the business that I started and the business that I own to provide for their family and to provide a paycheck for them.”

Clay: Then, I want to brag on you for just a second because this is one thing that is exciting. Yes, we have a lot of trainings about how you got to fire people that don’t perform. And we have a lot of trainings. Because this is an entrepreneurship show so we talk about how to manage people.

But, in your group of people there, you had many people who have been working with you 10 years, 15 years, what’s going on? You have a lot of people who have been with you man for over a decade in a time and a place in American history where the average American employee only stays at a job two, three years. You have people there for 15 years man.

Dr. Zoellner: You want to know a secret?

Clay: What’s the secret?

Dr. Zoellner: You want to know the secret sauce?

Clay: Okay, I am ready. Give it to me.

Dr. Zoellner: Here’s the secret. If you don’t treat your people well, somebody else will.

Clay: That’s just negative. That’s offensive. Ok now, that’s a great Segway. We are bringing on a guy who treats Tulsa well. If you are out there trying to get a mortgage, this is the guy who treats people very well. If you are looking for a mortgage this is your guy. It is Mr. Steve Carrington. Steve, how are you sir?

Steve Carrington: Good, how are you Clay?

Clay: Man, I am excited. I am excited today because we are getting into something that so many people have wanted to know. So many people have emailed and asked us over the years, they’ve said, “What are Dr. Z’s 10 rules of business?” You see we have had people who’ve been subscribers to many of which for 3 years, 4 years. These people have been up on the website and they are all wanting to know what are his 10 rules of business? And that’s what we are going to be talking about today Dr. Z.

Dr. Zoellner: Hey, listen I just want to say one thing right now. I have not had the outpouring that I have ever — we’ve had on the show over the weekend about Friday show. If you missed Friday show.

Clay: Oh man.

Dr. Zoellner: About search engine optimization. What is that? [laughs] I was talking to someone today. What is that? That was cool but what was that again. Listen, get on, there is a podcast on their and you can listen to that show. I mean literally as many times as you want too.

Clay: You can listen to it as many times as you want to thrivers. That’s Now Zee, I have reason to celebrate before we get into today’s mailbag. Here we go, Forbes published their study, this every year. So in about a month we are going to get the new study. But for 2016, Oklahoma City was ranked number five as America’s top city for entrepreneurs, Oklahoma City. Number four was Raleigh, North Carolina, number three is Atlanta, Georgia, number two is, Tampa, Florida but number one would be.

Dr. Zoellner: Drum roll.

Clay: Here we go, Tulsa Oklahoma, the number one city in America for young entrepreneurs. That’s according to Forbes. This just in there is a reason to celebrate this holiday season.

Dr. Zoellner: You know there is something in the water. Literally, I mean we don’t have a lot in our river, just that we’re on the coast of. So, that’s why we do those workshops here. People show up and they just get off the plane and they go, “I just feel entrepreneurship in the air. I just feel it.”

Clay: Steve, What is it? You have traveled around the country and you have multiple locations for TLC lending. Your mortgage company is in multiple states. What is it about Tulsa, Oklahoma that is so conducive to entrepreneurship from your perspective?

Steve: Dr. Z’s here.


Clay: Oh nice.

Steve: No, I think there is [sic] a lot of good people here in Tulsa. It’s kind of a Mecca for people.

Clay: I know the cost of living is low. We have a very limited regulation. There’s [sic] a lot great things but there’s a lot to be thankful for in the beautiful city of Tulsa, Oklahoma. Now Z, were going to get into the mailbag here, okay. We have a mailbag question. Now this one comes out of, from Malaysia. Z from Malaysia, seriously.

Dr. Zoellner: Malaysia? I’ve got a good friend Ed Judith from Malaysia.

Clay: Here is the question. It says, “Improving a Company’s Culture”, “I am an editor working with a publishing company that produces three magazines. The full time staff strength is around 9 people. The president happens to be complacent and depends only on one huge publishing deal, which is a magazine commissioned by a huge”, that’s huge twice, “huge, huge mutual fund in Malaysia. For the other two magazines, one is on a borderline survival mode and the other has gone from monthly to bi-monthly. It seems finances are well taken care of as all nine full time staff are paid without fail every month. The problem is staff morale is very low and everyone is thinking about a plan B as they do not know what lies in store in the future. The publishing house is based in Malaysia and,” she goes on to explain the details. But Z, she wants to know, how do you improve the moral, how do you improve — a company where you really only have three customers and the people don’t really see growth in the future. How do you –, this is from Genie in Malaysia. What advice would you have for Genie in Malaysia?

Dr. Zoellner: Well first of all, you need, I would always say diversify. I mean there’s a lot of digital stuff out there you can do now with magazines. You know when Warren Buffet started buying magazines and newspapers you knew something was up. That dude is a smart dude.

Clay: He is a smart dude.

Dr. Zoellner: He is a smart dude. So the future can be bright. Obviously some of the modalities are bringing that information out are kind of changing. So, you got to be on the forefront of change. And the only way you can really keep morale high in a company is to celebrate and be positive. And the leadership, the leadership has to bring that leadership to the game. In other words, when I show up at my office and I’m in a bad mood.

Clay: Which has never happened.


Dr. Zoellner: Okay, we’ll go with that Clay. We’ll go with that.

Clay: Okay.

Dr. Zoellner: When I’m in a bad mood, it’s amazing just how everybody else is like, all of sudden, everybody else is fussy, everybody else is in a bad mood. Patients are the worst; it’s a bad day. It’s amazing that attitude starts from the head, from the top, from the leader, and just flows down to the rest of the organization. So I am going to tell-

Clay: Genie.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes I’m going to tell Genie. Say, “Genie, step one, you’re the leader you’ve got to bring the positive attitude. You’ve got to bring a term that we are going to talk about today on the show, it’s called ShowTime and you have got to be that positive, positive epi-center of joy, and happiness, and looking forward, and let’s brain storm what are we going to do, let’s diversify, what are some products we can do, how can we get this message out in other avenues?” I mean it starts at the top Clay.

Clay: Now Z, I’ve got two action items for Genie that I want to give her, two action items here. One Genie is, I would encourage you to make a list today of a hundred other deals you go after, 100.

Dr. Zoellner: There you go.

Clay: Because if you’re not growing, you’re ripened and basically rotting. That’s what’s happening.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes.

Clay: And so you have got to go, as Z said, you have got to go after new business. I’d make a list of a Dream 100. This is well documented in Chet Holmes book The Ultimate Sells Machine. You can find other video trainings at about the Dream 100 but go after a hundred potential deals because if you go after a hundred deals I am telling you what right you’re going to screw up and sell something.

Voice-over: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on talk radio 1170.

Clay: And the second move I would do is, I would really get with the leadership team and I’m not sure exactly where you fit in the role, your role with the company but I would just get a specific path documented so your team knows they have a career path, because when people don’t know if the company is growing people start going, again if your company is not growing people start going. Those are my two action items. One, make the dream 100 and two make a career path for the team or the company. So, people know there is actually a vision for the company.

Dr. Zoellner: Absolutely and that comes from the head, that comes from the leadership. So, you have to bring that positive every day, all right? No whiney, no negativity, bring the positivity but also get a plan. Because people see you, okay they’re happy, they’re good, they’re positive but now what’s the plan? What’s the goal? Where are we going? And you need to set that down.

I think the top 100 is perfect. If you only got three clients, you know, double it. Add in a fourth one for the next year. I mean, go after it. I mean, “What else — what other products can we bring to the table that we can do as a team to help get this information out instead of just a magazine?”

Clay: And I’m just telling you this, if you listen to the show today and you are going, “I’ve financially have already achieved my goals.” If your listening right now and you have thankfully already achieved your financially goals, you cannot stop growing your company or I’m telling you, your top people are going to start going. If you stop growing they’re going to start going. This always happens. Now Z, we’re getting into your super, these are your 10 business moves. Your 10 rules of business, the much anticipated tens rules of business. Here we go.


Clay: All right, rule number one Z. This is just in from Dr. Zoellner’s home office off the left coast of the Arkansas River. “Pig fat hogs get butchered”. What are you talking about?

Dr. Zoellner: What does that mean? What does that mean? But you know what that means?

Clay: I don’t know what that means.

Dr. Zoellner: One time, I was giving a — I was talking to a group of optometry students and I was going through my top business points. This was always my number one. I said, I looked at the audience, I was like, “Does anybody knows what that means?” Nobody raised their hand. I was like, “Oh, gosh.” To me, it was just self-evident. First time I heard that years ago, that was self-evident. Here’s the thing about it.


Clay: “Yee-haw”.

Dr. Zoellner: At times, I love stories about agriculture and agrarian society because you then can translate to so many things in life. We going down to the farm and you see the farm is when you have a pig, that means hog is greedier animal.

Clay: Hog is a greedier animal.

Dr. Zoellner: The term “hog” — We’re going to talk about greed when we talking about this.

Clay: Okay.

Dr. Zoellner: If you’re starting a business, you’re entrepreneur and you are making a widget, now if you price that widget for too much money, do you think you’ll sell a lot of the widgets?

Clay: “I have the best widget in the history of the world.”

Dr. Zoellner: “Therefore I must sell it 10 times the price of everybody else’s widgets.”

Clay: “It’s a fabulous widget and I feel like that entitles me to screw you.” [laughs]

Dr. Zoellner: “Many scientists verify that it is confirmed that it’s the best widget ever made.” Yes, well, you can charge a bit for premium, but if you over price your goods and services, you will be not doing your goods and services-


Dr. Zoellner: Because you’ll be out of business. That’s one way. Go ahead.

Clay: I want to ask you this here. Steve, you’re entrepreneur. You’ve obviously been in Tulsa as a mortgage banker for years, having success here. Have you seen this happen before? Have you seen it where someone tries to get greedy on a deal and they blow up the deal in your industry? Have you ever seen this happen or this is a unique phenomenon just to Dr. Z and the auto auction and the optometry and the banking, and the other industries?

Steve: No, I think the rule of thumb is, obviously, you’ve got to take your customers and you’ve got to charge a fair price for what you’re selling. You know things cost more maybe because they are more valuable. Right? It’s not that you’ve got to be the cheapest game in town or you have to be rock bottom, but you just got to make sure that — I guess, can you sleep at night by taking care of people and charging what you’re charging? If you can’t, then I think that’s –

Clay: Z, where’s the balance, man? Where’s the balance here?

Dr. Zoellner: Well, the balance is being the pig. In other words, a pig is a healthy animal that eats well, that is not starving, that is making good money. One of the things that you know about that is your sales growth and your numbers.

That’s one thing you have to take hard look at that if you are not selling as much of the goods and services that you are wanting to, are you overpricing them? That could be one of the things that that could be wrong with that and that’s what my number one rule deals with. Also, it deals with employees.

Clay: Okay.

Dr. Zoellner: What does that mean?

Clay: What does that mean?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. What does that means is this, is that if you-don’t pay your people well — Yes, you could definitely overpay for employees, you can. You can pay them too much.

Clay: Yes, you could do that.

Dr. Zoellner: If you don’t pay them enough, in other words if you’re greedy, if you’re like, “Well, I’ll pay this guy only about 75% what I think I need to that way I can pocket the rest,” because that’s a bottom line issue. Employee costs are bottom line issue. You know you’re out there you’re going to hire someone. Right?

Clay: Right.

Dr. Zoellner: One day one of my men just came in and took me and said, “Hey, my budget is I’ve got $30 an hour I can spend,” and she looked at me and she said, “Should I get two employees at $15 an hour or three at 10,” and I looked at her and said, “Well, that’s up to you.” You got to hire quality somebody at $15 an hour but you can have another hand at $10 an hour and those are some of the balance in management that you’ve to kind of decide on.

Clay: One of the things that I’ve noticed throughout your career, what you’ve done, and if people want to test this and see it firsthand, if you go to Dr. Robert Zoellner and Associates, your eye care center, your optometry clinic, we have to locations, you’re going to see a value-based business. So people get a good deal but you’ve also been doing it profitably for 25 years. When we come back, we’re going to talk about finding that balance between making some money and offering people a great deal. Stay tuned Thrive Time Show.


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Voice-over: Live, local, now, you’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: All right, Tulsa the green country, welcome back to the Thrive Time Show. It’s business school without the BS. And yes, my name is Clay Clark and I am a business coach. I’m the former SBA entrepreneur of the year in your ear and guess who’s here? Guess who’s here? It’s Dr. Robert Z to the elder. Dr. Zoellner, how are you sir?

Dr. Zoellner: Happy Monday, Thrive nation. It’s the start of another great week and all you guys out there that have that little entrepreneurial bug in you. We are going to try to help you get that bug out and turn it into a wonderful business.

Clay: We have a fabulous guest with us today inside the box that rocks here in the world headquarters. It’s Mr. Steve Currington, Tulsa’s number one mortgage banker of choice. Sir, how are you?

Steve: Good. It’s awesome.

Clay: What is a mortgage banker for people who go, “What is that”?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, what is that?

Steve: What does that mean? So we don’t find a bank to go fund our loans. A lot of people call them like a mortgage broker. The reason we’re distinguished between bankers because we originate underwrite fund a loan, all in house. We’re doing everything and then we may or may not sell it, so you’re a correspondent lender or a non-depository versus a broker.

Clay: Where could people find out more about your super business?


Clay: Who should be reaching out to you? What kind of people could benefit from the services that you provide?

Steve: You’ve been waiting to see if rates are going to go up. They’re on their way so you might want to refinance if you’ve been on the fence. We got a few that have hopped into that bucket recently. Just generally, anybody. We work with a lot of first-time buyers. If you’ve never bought a house before, maybe this is your second time, I just did a loan for my mother and father-in-law, haven’t bought a house since 1980 something. If you’re that person and you need somebody to walk you through the process and through the maze of mortgage financing as I call it, then go to or

Dr. Zoellner: Steve, there is a rule of thumb. Let’s say my interest rate on my house is X, and what’s the spread to where it’s worth my time to do it? In other words, if I’m like at five percentage on my house and you’re offering four, and it’s probably not enough to justify, right? What’s that spread where you educate people on, “Yes, that’s probably worth your time and money to do that”?

Steve: It’s just really dependent on your loan amount. That’s the biggest factor because you could have a 7% rate in the $50,000 loan amount. Lowering it to four may not be worth the cost. The other thing people don’t look at, Dr. Z is, they’re in year 12 of a 30 and they’re going to reset to a 30. What we do with a lot of people is –

Clay: Wait, wait, wait. Just real quick. I want to make sure we’re breaking this down. You just said some profundities that via radio, we can’t see your beautiful face. Sometimes it’s hard to totally soak in the goodness. You’re saying if you’re on your 12 of a 30-year mortgage, the way that works thrivers is you really don’t start paying off that loan until what year?

Steve: That loan is front-end loaded with interest. You’re now starting to pay a lot of principal and then you refinance, and a lot of people do this, they reset back to a 30. Maybe at that lower loan amount, but now they’re starting over.

Clay: So you’re never really paying down the principal of the loan?

Steve: Right. Well, they are, but it’s just they’re paying it down a lot slower.


Clay: Very little.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, very little.

Steve: I just recommend that you go — if you’ve got 12 years left, you ought to probably look at a 15 or a 20 so that you’re not starting over on it. That’s where if you’re going, Dr. Z, from a 30 to a 15, or from a 25 to a 20, or lower in term and you can lower your rate, then it’s typically always worth it because you’re going to pay it off faster.

Here’s the thing, easy. There’s about five things I need. I only have to pull your credit. Send me a mortgage statement or send me your property address, what you think your house is worth and your annual taxes and insurance, and we can work up a quote and tell you whether it’s worth it. It takes 10 minutes.

Clay: All right. Now Dr. Z, we’ll talking about your rule number one which is, “pigs get fat, hogs get butchered”, your number one rule in business. Now, at your optometry clinic, Dr. Robert Zoellner and Associates, you obviously have the two locations and most people seen the one by the mall. Where’s the other one located?

Dr. Zoellner: It’s at basically 30th in Harvard.

Clay: Okay. So when you’re pricing the glasses, when you’re pricing — because you’re known for $99 for one pair of fashionable glasses and an eye exam.

Dr. Zoellner: Right. $129 for two, but you’re right.

Clay: Where is the balance, my friend? I mean where’s the deal? Where’s the balance between gouging the customers and taking advantage of them and giving them a good deal? Where’s the balance?

Dr. Zoellner: The balance is, as an entrepreneur, you have to find that balance. I mean look at car dealerships — let’s just go through some businesses right now. When Pizza Hut makes a commercial for TV, they don’t talk about their most expensive pizza, do they?

Clay: No. No.

Steve: No, they don’t. No.

Dr. Zoellner: Let’s say it’s a special feature. Now, their little stuff crusting when they came out with it, they could charge whatever they wanted for it in essence because there was no competition for it. You following me?

Clay: Yes, and I’ll tell you what, when you talk about stuffed crust pizza –

Dr. Zoellner: Yes.


Clay: It kind of gets romantic.


Clay: Oh man.

Steve: Amazing.

Dr. Zoellner: Listen, when the car dealership runs an ad, you think they’re going to run the fully loaded, everything on it car?

Clay: No, they’re probably not, they’re probably going to –

Dr. Zoellner: I mean they talk about the service fees, and the up-sells, what they’re going to try to do to you in the dealership?

Clay: No, they usually don’t.

Dr. Zoellner: No, they typically don’t, and they give the extra service warranty, you know, hey really it’s there’s, but you’re really going to be paying this by the time you get out. They don’t, so what you do is you lead with what you call a value deal, and then you have better options for them when they’re there, okay? Because not everybody wants cloth seats and no air-conditioning and no cassette tape player.

Clay: I’ve got a little notable quotable that I like to give all the thrivers out here. I always recommend that when you have a business, you want to make it bankable. Because if you make a business and you’re not making any profits, you can’t ever sell the company. So if you have a business and you’re just barely surviving, you can’t sell the company, you can’t get a bank loan to expand, you can’t pay your team well, you can’t, you know, all those things. So I always tell people try to shoot for a between 20 and 30 percent margin, and then you and your team will never be starving. That’s my kind of world view.

Voice-over: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: And I see so many people in the consulting and graphic design and advertisement space for my consulting firm, Make Your Life Epic. We basically do advertising, it’s like an advertising and marketing company for businesses. So companies that struggle to grow, they reach out to us and say, “hey, could you help us with our marketing?” And I see these firms that will charge people exorbitant fees and deliver almost no value, because they think they can. And when the market gets tight, what do people do? They-

Steve: They fire you.

Clay: ­-fire you.

Dr. Zoellner: They fire you. And you’re right, but 20 to 30 is really very healthy for a business. You get much more than 30, you’re kind of being a hog. And what you’re doing is you’re creating an environment for somebody else to slide in there, recreate your widget, all they do it, and beat you on the price. Because that’s one things [sic] that happens, and I’ve seen that historically in my profession. You know, it was Dr. Billy down in some private little town somewhere, and he could charge whatever he wanted for glasses. And these big optical chains around the country said, “wait a second, boy that’s just the goods.”

Anybody can sell glasses as long as you have your optician’s license, you have to be a Dr. to sell glasses, you following me? And so they came in and said, “listen, they are being hogs. They are selling these glasses for way more than they’re paying for them.” And so it created an opportunity for them to come in and say “hey, I can sell it for half what they’re selling it for.” And still make a very good margin, and make a lot of money. So that’s why you see these big national chains popped up, and they came in with the value message. And all the local optometrists were just like, “hey, what’s up with that?” Well you were being a hog instead of a pig with your pricing.

Clay: Now Dr. Z, we’re going to get into the notable quotable that supports your rule. This is from Brian Tracy, best-selling author. He says, “Successful people are always looking for opportunities to help others. Unsuccessful people are always asking, ‘what’s in it for me?'” Deep thought from Brian Tracy.

Dr. Zoellner: Deep thought. And like you’ve said before, and I love when you’re talking to a young entrepreneur and say, “listen, first step, you know, follow your passion, but first step, find a problem and solve it.” And that thinking, you’re automatically thinking, “what can I do for somebody else?” Because it’s a problem somebody has.

Clay: Yes. You can find a problem that people are willing to pay you to solve, you’ve got a business, my friend. Now we’re moving on to Rule Number Two. Your rule number Two is this, Z, it’s “be the pig at breakfast, not the chicken.” Now Thrivers, when we come back you’re going to — Dr. Z is going to unpack this rule. But you’re saying, “be the pig at breakfast, not the chicken. Now, I have two questions that are going through my mind already. One, is this free range pig we’re talking about? Free range chickens?


Dr. Zoellner: The answers are coming. I’m just going to sit here and dance to a little Michael Jackson while we going out for break. But it’s coming up. I’ve got all the answers to step number two.


Clay: So my wife doesn’t get offended, be the free range pig at breakfast, not the free range chicken. Stay tuned. Thrive Time Show. Boom.

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Voice-over: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Alright Tulsa, welcome back to Tulsa’s only local business radio show. It is the Thrive Time Show on this beautiful December to remember magical Monday. My name is Clay Clark, it is not dark, because it is the afternoon, and you are tuning in to the best, Z, the best local business radio show. Z, how can we say that? How can we possibly make that outrageous claim? This is the best business local radio talk show?

Dr. Zoellner: Well, you want the truth?

Clay: I do.

Dr. Zoellner: Do you want the abso– can you handle the truth?

Clay: I can’t handle the truth. I can’t handle it.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] Well because we’re the only one.

Clay: Oh. Well that’s so negative.

Dr. Zoellner: I know, I need to get a better story. That’s the problem with that, I just need to come up with a better story. And you know what, we enjoy being a business coach and business coaching. Someone said the other day, they said, “man you guys sound like you’re really having fun, and really –” I said, “yeah, because this is our passion. This is what we love doing.

Clay: This is what we love doing.

Dr. Zoellner: This is what we love doing.

Clay: We love the process.

Dr. Zoellner: We love the process. You know now that we’re on from 12 to two, it’s over lunch time.

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: So it’s Monday, you just left work, we’re on your radio right now. You’re probably driving over to Oklahoma Joe’s.

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: You’re going to get some of those burnt ends and baked beans, and as always you’re going to say, “I’ve never been there, I’m going to go there. Those guys talk about it.”

Clay: You have to go there.

Dr. Zoellner: And you’re going to try, you’re going to go, “oh my gosh, this is like meat excellence.”

Clay: We’re talking about meat excellence, what you’re doing right now is you’re getting me all hungry

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs]

Clay: And as soon as we finish this I am definitely going to go right over there. Now there’s two locations I can go to, right?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. There’s one over by the Bass Pro Shop and Broken Arrow and that is 61st and Sheridan. And if you’re downtown, there’s one next to Cain’s. It’s only open for lunch, though, I think it’s like 11 to two. Joe Davidson, who is a great guy, and they wanted to sponsor the show, so we like to give them shout outs. And I’ll tell you what, their food is awesome. And for any of you going there today to eat, I’m just going to give you — because you are going to email me and go, “that was awesome,” and I’m just going to say, “You’re welcome.”

Clay: You’re welcome?

Dr. Zoellner: Just up front, “You’re welcome.”

Clay: Now Z, over there at Oklahoma Joe’s, the burnt ends are known as “meat candy.”


Clay: Now for the thrivers who are watching right now on Facebook Live, the guy next to me, he’s known as “eye candy.” It’s ecstasy when he’s next to me, Mr. Steve Currington. How are you, sir?

Steve: [laughs] Hey, thanks Clay, I’m doing great.


Steve: There’s an Oklahoma Joe’s, did you guys know, I think in Colorado Springs.

Clay: Really?

Steve: I went to Colorado Springs and ate Oklahoma barbecue.

Clay: Really?

Dr. Zoellner: Well.

Steve: I think.

Dr. Zoellner: It’s a long ways to go for it.

Clay: I cannot confirm or deny.

Dr. Zoellner: I’ll go on his website and see.

Steve: You’ll have to go and check it out.

Clay: I want to ask you this Steve, can you explain to Tulsa what it is that you do for a profession?

Steve: I do home mortgage. That means residential. If you’re buying a house, I get you the loan so you can buy the house.

Clay: Where can people find you?

Steve: “”.

Clay: So if you’re looking to buy a house right now, re-finance they need to go to

Steve: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: And people may say, why do we have this handsome man in a green shirt on the show? Here’s what we’re doing, folks. We love to take success stories around Tulsa, which at the beginning of the show we talked about being the number one city for young entrepreneurs, which is really cool.

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: We have a lot to pull from, and we love bringing those success stories. And we love talking them [sic], picking their brain, get a little of their secret sauce.

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: Maybe a secret move or two out of them.

Clay: Yes. Now Z, we’re talking about rule number two. This is your top 10 rules in business. Rule number two, “be the pig at breakfast, not the chicken”, what are you talking about?

Dr. Zoellner: What does that mean? It’s so confusing. Well, here again.


Dr. Zoellner: Story time.

Clay: Alright Z, give us the farm legend. Give it to us. I’m ready.

Dr. Zoellner: See, every morning on the farm, you have to have a hearty breakfast.

Clay: That’s true.

Dr. Zoellner: Because you’re working all day long from sun up to sun down.

Clay: I agree.

Dr. Zoellner: Without a hearty breakfast, you can’t make it through the day.

Clay: Oh wow, okay.

Dr. Zoellner: And so one of the things that you have for breakfast is you have eggs, which come from chickens.

Steve: Now it’s getting kind of deep.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] And you’re wife’s not offended, they’re organic, free-range chickens.


Dr. Zoellner: And then you also have what we’re going to call bacon. Or maybe if you choose, maybe some ham?

Clay: [whispers] Bacon, ham.

Dr. Zoellner: And this comes from an animal that we affectionately refer to as a pig.

[pig sounds]

Dr. Zoellner: Now, there’s a difference in how these two animals contribute to breakfast.

Clay: Okay.

Dr. Zoellner: Alright, follow this. The chicken lays the egg.

Clay: The chicken lays the egg.

Dr. Zoellner: The chicken is still alive, this chicken gets up, and goes scratching around the yard, because it’s free range, right?

Clay: It’s just that we did have seven eggs at the Clark house today.

Dr. Zoellner: Well then you were able to have breakfast.

Clay: We were, seven this morning. Back to you.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. And now that we’re in the holiday season, just a little note, just a little quick doctor note. Eggs are one the best things you can eat if you’ve had a too much spiked eggnog. In other words, if you’ve had too much libations the night before, eggs are one of the best things you can eat.

Clay: Really?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. Google it. It’s a thing. It’s a thing.

Clay: I did not know that. Back to you.

Dr. Zoellner: Water and eggs, two of the best things. Okay.

So now the chicken lays the egg, and has contributed to the breakfast right? Right, you following me?

Clay: I’m following, it’s contributed an egg to the breakfast, is — the chicken is still alive.

Dr. Zoellner: The chicken is still alive.

Clay: Okay, and it’s contributed an egg to the breakfast.

Dr. Zoellner: Apparently you´re right, yes, free range out there, now the pig in the other hand in order to give you bacon or ham, the pig has to give up its life.

Steve: That´s not very nice.

Dr. Zoellner: I know, I know, I know, but he is what we call totally committed to your breakfast experience.

[background music]


Dr. Zoellner: It´s a fact, you know it´s science, it´s a fact, you know I don´t want to upset anybody but that´s what it is, so now you look at and you say, well the chicken was just not involved in breakfast.

I see so many young entrepreneurs start a business and they say themselves, man, I can just hardly wait till it´s rolling and I can get out there and get my big boat and get on the lake and have all these people doing all my stuff for me and then I just can just sit back in easy town.

Voice-over: You are listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1117

Dr. Zoellner: And I would say that person is more in to not committed.

Clay: “Bro I am totally committed like I work 4 hours a day bro, all half day every day.”

Dr. Zoellner: “I can´t find anybody to do the weekend shift, I guess I just won´t be open on the weekend’s bro because I have to find good health.”

Clay: Bro I want to know what´s your tips to success that I can do in 4 hours a week.

Dr. Zoellner: [Laugh]. And then you´ve got the guy, the young entrepreneur or lady, and they say, you know what, I am there till open till close, I am working my hindy off, I am giving my all, I don´t have a plan B, I came to the island and we burned our boats, which means there is no, there is no getting off the island.

Clay: Z, I am telling you what, [back ground music] I am going to dedicate this one to prince right here, “I would die for you”, this is for the entrepreneur, the lady or the dude saying, “I would die to make this business happen”, right, Dude, they are not going half in, they´re saying, “I would literally die for you to make it happen.”

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, and those are the ones more times than none are the successful ones, I mean there are other steps to do but having the mindset, if you are going to open a business.

Number one, no one´s going to care as much about it as you do, you hire someone and you might say to yourself, “They got bad work ethic, they won´t work that extra light, they ran off the last patient of the day, they ran off the last customer of the day,” well yes, because they don´t care as much as you do, so that´s why you — you as the head of the organization, the head of the business you´ve got to be the pig at breakfast, you´ve got to lay down your life, you´ve got to give it all, and you´ve got to say there is no plan B.

Clay: Now,, Mr. Mortgage, have you ever fought through some adversity in your business my friend?

Steve: Oh, just a little bit.

Clay: Just a little bit?

Steve: Yes. [Laugh], the mortgage fought, has been a little, been a little interesting, I think it´s in High Trust Selling by Todd Duncan that they talk about the Law of the Iceberg, is that–I don´t if that´s the book or not, but the law of the iceberg says, “People only see from the surface, and absolutely when you look at Dr. Z, you are like, “Oh look how successful he’s been, oh it must be nice.”

No one sees, everything beneath, all the work that´s been done, the foundation that´s been put there in order to do it, so it´s really easy to look at the guy that´s successful and say, “Oh he got it easy, he drives this car, he has this or he has that.” When, they don´t know all the work you´ve done, they don´t know that Clay gets up at, what time you get to the office on some Mondays?

Clay: 3am is when get up and start the email thing. But that´s just because–well the thing is because we had this awesome opportunity to host this radio show, and the show-prep that we do for every one hour we are on, it´s about three hours of show prep, so I mean, It´s just what we have to do if want to put on a quality show.

I want to give them a demonstrate, just one example of preparation really quick here, we talk about sacrificing, did you guys know that Larry Page and Sergey Brin when they started Google in 1996, it took them three years before those homies made even a dollar of profit?, three years, people don´t realize that Google like, “Oh it´s overnight success.” What about Steve Jobs how long did it take him? What about Bill Gates how long did it take him?

[Background Music]

Clay: Let me tell you what, look that up today, you´ll realize these people took years before they made any money, years Dr. Z.

Dr. Zoellner: Years, and they were committed, they hang in there and now, wow, wow, so cool.

Clay: We come back rule number three, rule number three when we come back.

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Voice-over: You are listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1117.

Clay: All right Tulsa and Oklahomies, welcome to The Thrive Time Show, Tulsa´s only local business radio show, it is business school without the B.S, and yes, my name is Clay Clark the former SBA entrepreneur of the year, the father of five human kids, and the man who herds many chickens, we have a free range organic chickens that my wife and I are passionate about it, my daughter Havana does a great job raising and coaching up and really mentoring this chickens, she is the chicken whisperer, Dr. Zoellner how are you, Sir?

Dr. Zoellner: [Whispering] whisper, whisper to the chicken whisper, whisper, whisper, whisper.

Clay: You have seen Havana.

Dr. Zoellner: I´ve been over your house, and they just kind of follow people on the yard.

Clay: They do, they follow you around, they’ve realized we are not going to come and kill them, we are going to-


Dr. Zoellner: They must give you this organic, like — the eggs, must taste just super, super awesome.

Clay: And they are coming out in many different colors right now, we had seven eggs this morning, we had two that were a different color, it´s kind of a good time in Clark´s house in terms of our organic free range egg raising business, now we have a very special guest in the show today Dr. Z, it’s a guy by the name of Mr. Steve Currington, Steve how are you, sir?.

Steve: Good, what´s up Clay?

Clay: Hey, for Tulsan´s out there who say, I–You know, I think I´ve heard the name, I think I know him, I think I´ve seen him driving that Bentley around town, What do you do?, What is your profession?, What is your core, income producing activity my friend?.

Steve: I do residential home loans, I do mortgages, if you need to buy a house I give you the money.

Clay: What´s the most number of mortgages you´ve ever done in a year? I want to ask, roughly what´s that number, not that you count or I count, or other people that is listening even counts, but what will be that number if you have to guess?

Steve: In my younger career I think it was about 200, I did that personally, about 200 loans

Clay: 200 loans in a year?

Steve: Yes, I mean, that´s not that big of a deal, I mean, I´m probably like small potatoes compared to some of this guys.

Clay: That is pretty incredible, I´ve had a chance over the years to consult to many mortgage bankers, and I will tell you that, that´s a big number my friend, to what do you attribute your success, to other than, you can´t say, your physical beauty, and your beautiful looks, because people on Facebook live know that´s sort of a crutch you´ve used through-

[cross talk]

Steve: Totally not true.

Clay: But what do you attribute your success to?

Steve: I just don´t stop, and Dr. Z talked about that in the previous segment, that you got to be the pig at breakfast and go all in and give your life for your business, whatever that business is, and I´m just a 1,000 miles an hour, that´s why I got a fast car.

Clay: OH good catch.

Steve: It only 900 the rest of the 1000 is me.

Dr. Zoellner: Now Clay we are going to get to my other — we are going to get the other 10 points, a little further on, but marinating on this number two, one of the things that happens is, and this is — we talked about being committed, and people signed up for that, and they go, “yes, yes, yes, that´s what I need to do.”, and then they got this thing that’s called life balance that happens, and so, there is — that is a thing, and I do want to address that, can we address that on this segment and talk about that.

Clay: I would like if you can address it, and I would like to have a shameless excuse to play some brave heart sound effects as result of it, so hey let´s do it.

Dr. Zoellner: [Laughs] What would happen if these people say listen, “Hey Clay and Dr. Z said to be committed and give it all and just — so I´m just at the business, I never go home anymore, I sleep in the storage room, I mean, I´m so committed, I´m there every day, I’m just, Aaarghh.”

Clay: [Mocking Voice], “I don´t even change my clothes anymore, I live in my office, I am starting to just be organic, I don´t take showers, I’m just focused.”

Dr. Zoellner: Everybody out listening out there, I´m serious when I say this, when we first got this beautiful headquarters for Thrive 15, Clay was like gives you about a coordinated area, and just, and move– I don´t know about his family, he’s definitely going to live here, and I was like, “Clay you have to go sometimes, you’ve five human children, they need daddy times, Vanessa needs hubby times at times, and so, I get this question asked a lot by young entrepreneurs that say, “How do I know when to go home?.”

Clay: How do you know?


Dr. Zoellner: Because I’m committed, because Z like you said I´m committed, I am being the pig at breakfast, not the chicken so how do I know?

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: And you know what I always tell them?

Clay: What do you always tell them?

Dr. Zoellner: What I always tell them is this, you want to know a little secret?

Clay: I do want to know we want to know the secret.

Steve: I want to know.

Dr. Zoellner: You want to know Steve?

Steve: I want to know.

Dr. Zoellner: Here is the secret folks. You are a young entrepreneur you are all committed, you’re doing your job, you´re there, you are just all the time grinding and making it happen, your family will let you know.

Clay: Oh, is this subtle reminders typically?

Dr. Zoellner: Your son will say, “Dad when am I going to see you again?” You don’t want to be that song with the cats in the cradle, the dude that was never there?

Clay and Dr. Zoellner: [chorus singing]: cats in the cradle and the silver spoon.

Dr. Zoellner: You don’t want to be that dude. So what happens is, and here’s the key folks, when you’re home with them, when you’re just in time with your son, your daughter, your wife, your husband, whoever it is. Be all there don’t sit there with your phone. Don’t sit there with your — answering e-mails. Don’t sit there and be in the living room and not be connected with them. So the key is to make that time quality time and you don’t have to spend as much time.

Clay: Otherwise you’re going to be hearing this audio, and this audio will be occurring in your own living room.

Speaker 1: [unintelligible 00:40:48] I am 35 years old, I am divorced and I leave in van down by the river.

Dr. Zoellner: Ooh yes, ooh yes.

Clay: That’s going to happen if you don’t find that balance.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, you don’t want to leave in a van, rivers are fine bodies of water don’t get me wrong. The sand here at the Arkansas River it’s going – I like it’s like the sand like the ocean beach you know it’s kind of a beach front really we have beach front property.

Clay: Well all of us is – we’re thrivers, at, we’re all very passionate here about the new Star Wars movies, we’re located right here by the Arkansas River. And one could even call us sand people Z, because we’re right here on the river, where we are sand people.

Dr. Zoellner: Ooh, nice tie, another Star Wars themes.


Clay: And here we go. Rule number three Z. This is your number three rule in business, “Know when to cook that pig.” What are you talking about?

Dr. Zoellner: What am I talking about? I tell you what, I see people that go through life that are very successful. And they’re heads down they’ve always got kind of a growl on their face and they’re farcie, their numbers weren’t as good as last month and they made money but now, “I want to make more, I think we make more, did you saw it? [unintelligible 00:41:57]. And I learned something very important, from a mentor of mine I’ve never met him personally but I’ve listened to him and read his books and that’s Jack Welch, he was one of the greatest CEOs. Yes right here-


Dr. Zoellner: Right here. And he was a big proponent of it and so have I been in my business is, “Celebrating the successes”, and cooking a pig symbolizes — when you see like a luau or a big party or like a wedding feast, they’ll have a pig there with an apple its mouth being marinated over a pit of flame.

Clay: A polka lucky hiki past the himaholo?

Dr. Zoellner: Polka lucky – Yes that, Yes, Yes, Yes, so, when you are going to cook a pig that symbolizes that, you’re celebrating something that’s one thing that I think you need to do is that, is that if you don’t take the time to enjoy the victories along the way, then what happens is you get you can get little sourness in your staff, you can get people going, “We just worked our butt off we had a record month and now.”

Clay: Steve here is a deal you and Dr. Z are known, but both you guys are known as guys who produce results but also like to have a little bit of fun.

[background music]

Clay: Talk to me about having fun here and, I mean when you play Galaga, you get points when you blow up a spaceship right? you pull up something you don’t want. Not that anyone has played Galaga in the last 20 years, but for people who have played Galaga I love the sound effect, you just-

[background music]

Clay: So talk to me. I’m listening right now and I’m like, “I don’t ever celebrate at all, ooh no, this is not good.” Or maybe someone listening right now and you’re going, “My spouse never celebrates at all.” What advice would you have?

Steve: I think my personality — I don’t know if you call it natural or trained it’s just, you’ve got to have fun. You’ve got to have some time in your life when you have fun and if you’re working all the time on your business and you’re building a business. There is no other time but when you’re in your business and if you have that like as Dr.Z was saying that sour, attitude than it’s contagious. And you don’t want sourness to be contagious.

Dr. Zoellner: You, don’t want that.

Steve: You want positive fun and so, the best advice I ever got from Dr. Steve Green he’s a good friend of mine and my mentor. He said, “Just be who you are.”

Clay: Just be who you are.

Steve: And have fun, that’s like the best contribution that I can give to my team, is just I am who I am and I like to have a lot of fun. And so I just bring that to the business.

Dr. Zoellner: Absolutely, and the Steve Currington’s out there in the world that have their business. This is a grooming issue for you. It’s the dude’s out there and the dudettes, that that’s not their natural bend, and I’m telling you what folks if you start your business. Give your team a goal and then celebrate it say, “Hey I’m taking everybody to a dinner tonight, we’re going to a pizza party.”

Clay: Here’s the action.

Dr. Zoellner: “We’re going to go to bowling.”

Clay: Z, Here’s the action that I’m hearing and I want to make sure that I’m getting this right. If I’m listening. Is that you want to set clear goals for your team. And when you achieve those goals you want to celebrate those goals?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, because if you say, “Hey let’s do this and then we hit it then that way it’s like, “Hey we did it, okay now we got a bigger goal for next month.” And they’re like, “Oooo – okay.”

Clay: You know who’s a great celebrator? You know who’s a great celebrator?

Dr. Zoellner: Who?

[background music]

Speaker 2: They may take our lives but they will never take our freedom.

Clay: Well, William Wallace could throw that.

Dr. Zoellner: William Wallace could celebrate, when won those fights and when there was a celebration.

Clay: When we sale the glasses Z. Will could, I mean-

Dr. Zoellner: He would ring the bell I know.

Clay: Even in your office though, yesterday there was a air of — I would say if you’re part of this past weekend and there was a reserve an energy, and an aura of excitement, of celebrating a year of victory at the auction, a year of victory at the optometry clinic, a year of victory with each of the businesses you’re involved in.

There was a sort of a celebratory tone. But I guarantee, you push your team hard but you also know when to celebrate, I think there’s a lot of you listening right now who are celebrating like Leon Lett the guy used to play for the Dallas Cowboys. And you’re celebrating before you get in the end zone.

[background music]

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, that’s not good.

Clay: And then, there’s somebody else, you celebrate and as soon as you get in the end zone you refused to do an end zone dance because you’re a grinder. There’s a balance here, but once you get to the end zone, do that dance.

Dr. Zoellner: Absolutely. I tell you what, when you celebrate a victory, alright? Month goals, how many this sold, how many that sold, how many things produced when you celebrate that, everyone of your staff. They just — they do what I’m doing right now, they just take a half step, just like –you see how I got tall right there? You see that?

Clay: Oh well.

Dr. Zoellner: I’ve actually just increased in size.

Clay: When we come back we’re going to get into your business rule number four.

Steve: Business rule number four.

[background music]

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Voice-over: broadcasting from the center of the universe featuring the optometrist turned entrepreneur Dr. Robert Zoellner and US SBA entrepreneur of the year, Clay Clark. This is the Thrive Time Show on talk radio 1170.

Clay: Hey, Hey, Hey, this is Captain Clay Clark on the Thrive Time Show. This is your place where you go to learn how to start and grow a successful business. According to Forbes according I have two powerful statistics for you. Statistic number one — this just in Dr. Z, 57% of Americans want to what my friend?

Dr. Zoellner: Start or grow their fledgling business, in other words entrepreneurship — I know it’s in the water in this country, it’s in the water in the city we know for sure to the water in the world. A lot of you out there. This little spark, little ember bury deep down inside and we are fanning that, and we’re going to help you start and grow your business. That’s our passion, that’s what this show’s about.

Clay: 57% percent of you want to start a business at some point, now also, this just in from Forbes, this is — no I’m not making this up. I want you to Google this, I want you to assume that I’m making this up and then I want you to find your own truth because when you engage with this and you research this and you realize we’re not making this up. It’ll become more powerful to you, but I want you to Google this okay?

Forbes did a study, they looked at a hundred eighty one cities across the country for which the cost of living data was available, they measured factors including access to funding, percentage of the local population between age 25 and 34, the local economy, the cost of living, and the data was all sourced by the US SBA. The US Census Bureau, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, and the Council for Community and Economic Research and they found. Oklahoma City was the number five city for young entrepreneurs in the country. Number four was Raleigh North Carolina. Number three was Atlanta Georgia, Hot-lanta number two was Tampa Florida, and number one. Dr Z, the number one city in America for young entrepreneurs is?

Dr. Zoellner: This just in. Tusla Oklahoma.

Clay: Bang.

Steve: What?

Dr. Zoellner: Oklahoma is to the top five. Oklahoma really has that independent nature about it, that wildcat or kind of-

Clay: And this isn’t a political show but I’ll just say, it seems as though the states that tend to vote tend to vote a certain way, tends to be the one with the most prosperous economy. I’m not just saying this– I’m just looking at patterns, but this isn’t a political show. We move over here to Steve Currington, our special guest. Steve Currington, why would you take the show in such a political trajectory? It’s a non-political [unintelligible 00:50:15] Steve.

Steve: I don’t know what I was thinking.

Clay: It isn’t what you said, it was just the way you made me feel that made me say that.

Steve: I was leading you to that.

Clay: Now Steve, people who do not know who you are and what you’re all about, what would– How does Steve Currington, how do you sir drive an income? What is your core business? What do you do?

Steve: I do residential home loans. For you people out there that are looking to buy a house, maybe you want to buy some investment property.

Clay: I like to live in a van.

Steve: Maybe you like to live in a van, I can’t help you. I do home loans. I’m the home the home loan guy.

Clay: Where can people find out more about you?

Steve: Oh, I put it right here in my biceps, if anybody wants to check it out. [laughter]

Dr. Zoellner: Hey Steve, do you those bigger RVs, the big mobile like a RVs. That’s some people’s primary home in Nixon.

Steve: We loan on mobile homes, but more like the double wides after they’re–

Dr. Zoellner: okay, they’re kind of upset somewhere.

Steve: They’re going to be fixed because we don’t want to be chasing you down.

Clay: Before we get back into the marrow of today’s training and Dr. Z’s business rules, I want to ask you right now. Do you have any specials, anything awesome going on there at TLC mortgage? For the listeners out there who maybe need to refinance or who are in the process of looking for a new mortgage.

Steve: If you come to our website or you call us and you mentioned that you heard me on the Thrive Time show. I am going to give you $500 off of your closing cost.

Dr. Zoellner: What?

Clay: $500 off?

Steve: 500 bucks.

Dr. Zoellner: Wow.

Steve: That’s really like the cost of an appraisal.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, it’s cool. Good for you.

Steve: You could refinance with no out-of-pocket cost technically.

Clay: And your website is Getkoalafied. Like a Koala .com?

Steve: Yes, like get Koala.

Dr. Zoellner: If you watch him on Facebook Live, is that why there’s a koala stuck to my horse trophy’s ear right now?

Steve: The koalas just find their ways. I don’t know. They’re sneaky little suckers.

Dr. Zoellner: They’re sneakies.

Clay: Do you know what sound a koala makes?

Steve: Oh yes. It’s on the thing.

Clay: [yells]

Steve: You should get seated with someone.

Clay: That’s the sound they make.

Dr. Zoellner: That’s why we don’t have like a lot of koala sound effects.

Clay: All right. Now, moving on, but seriously, you need to go on YouTube thrivers and listen to the koala [screams].

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs]

Clay: I tell you what, if things get out of hand, I will do that again.

Dr. Zoellner: I love that. We’re talking about how being efficient with your time and get stuff done. You’re like, “Hey, go to YouTube and listen to Koala sound effects.”

[laughter] look at that video. It’s just like, [screams]

Clay: Dr. Z, your number three rule in business is know when to cook that pig. I have a story that I want to share that relates to this because this is principals about celebrating success and victory. Here is the deal, I’m going to rip on myself. In the story I promise that–

Dr. Zoellner: Is this story– Are we going to Story Time?

Clay: It is Story Time. Here’s the deal.

[background music]

Commercial: Story Time

Clay: I’m a grinder. That’s what I do. I like to get up at like 3 am, I like to just grind. I grew up without money, not obsessed with money. I’m just obsessed with winning. I worked from 3:00 am to 5:00 p.m. 3:00 am to 5:00 pm. 3:00 am to 5:00 pm. I just keep doing that. So it’s 60 hours a week, 70 hours a week, every week. You look up and you go, “Man, all of a sudden I’m 20 years old. I’m an entrepreneur of the year for the city of Tulsa according to the Chamber of Commerce.

Dr. Zoellner: Very cool.

Clay: And then I look up, I’m 27. I’m the SBA Entrepreneur of the year. That’s a Small Business Administration Entrepreneur of the year. At this point, it was the exact place and time. This is where the story gets kind of negative, but this is the place and time where my son was born blind at the very time that I was receiving the SBA Entrepreneur of the Year award.

Dr. Zoellner: Wow. That’s something to overcome.

Clay: My wife and I were in a limo headed to this awards banquet, and I remember thinking, “What was the point of all of this success?” What was the point? Unfortunately for people listening right now, most of us, we have to have a breakdown before we have a breakthrough. That’s just what happens. We don’t ever have a breakthrough until we’ve had a breakdown. You, the Thrive listeners, you are the most trainable, coachable people on the planet. You are– I told you, you guys are awesome. You guys are the best listeners in the world and you don’t need to have a breakdown before your breakthrough.

For me, I literally had to get to a point where I didn’t have time on my own schedule to spend time with my son and to take him to the dean McGee Eye Institute for in-depth tests on his eyes to figure out what was going on. I remember at that point going, “What am I doing?” Then it was like I had to call a time-out. My wife who was a very kind and appreciative and perfect wife, my wife was going, “We need to schedule time for family. We have to do this, to schedule time for meetings and clients and sales and coaching and management and search engine– why are we not scheduling an appointment for this?” We started doing family time.

Dr. Zoellner: Very good.

Clay: Family time is every Sunday which we will do– we do family time every week. What we do is you block out a set period of time. It’s not like the entire day where we’re spending 12 hours together, but the thing is we have a set time. We always will do dinner, we’ll always get a chance to phones are off, we’re fully engaged and we just spend time with the family, the extended family, in-laws, whoever’s in town. We just do that. Z, I can tell you what, from that point forward we’ve had family time virtually every week and it’s been an absolute game changer in the life of my family.

I just want to ask you, have you ever gotten to a point in your life where you went, “Oh no. I just had a huge year in business and I didn’t schedule time for family.” Have you always been pretty intentional about doing that or– kind of coach us through that Z.

Dr. Zoellner: And that’s what I was saying earlier in the earlier segment about, “Oh, I’ve got a lot of young entrepreneurs” That’s when the number one questions I get asked, how do you balance? How do you balance your family life, right? Unless you want to be a monk or what we call a hermit.

Dr. Zoellner: A hermit.

Clay: That seem kind of offensive. You prefer spending time alone in the–

Dr. Zoellner: I just want to live in a cave by myself.

Clay: Yes, I was offended for all the cave dwellers.

Dr. Zoellner: This point is not for you. You can actually just take a mental time-out from what I’m getting ready to say, okay. For those of you that actually have a family and you have a business, how do you balance that? One of the things that I said earlier Clay, is that your family– it’s unfortunate they have to scream really loud but they will let you know when they need some daddy time. It’s and it’s up to you then, just like that, and you’re just kind of an extreme case, and you’re just was kind of a big extreme case. You were so focused and you’re such a hard-worker. You’re so dedicated and such a grinder that unfortunately it took that kind of event for you to really put a time out on it.

Clay: There’s a lot of entrepreneurs though that have been reading maybe Elon Musk and the stories about the Pilgrims or something, and you’ve all of a sudden got to this place where you now have developed a work ethic.

Voice-over: You’re listening to the Thrive Time show on Talk Radio 11:70.

Clay: Let me tell you about a work ethic. A work ethic, It’s so hard to develop that habit and that routine. Once you– because you’d really do have to get used to working hard. I think a lot of entrepreneurs fear drifting out of that rhythm of hard work. I would just encourage those of you listening right now. Lee Cockerell, one of our mentors, and the guy who used to manage Walt Disney World Resorts, and all 40,000 people that work there, he told me this. He says, “You only get done what you schedule.”

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. There’s a lot of truth to that.

Clay: That’s the action that I would give you is schedule of time for faith, for family, for fitness, for friendships, and for finance. It’s the F5, scheduled time for faith, family, finance, fitness, friendships. Schedule time. If you don’t schedule, it won’t happen. Steve, what advice would you have for the thrivers out there?

Dr. Zoellner: Wait, wait, wait, wait. I’ve got to throw my bonus number six in here. That’s what this point is all about.

Clay: I see, I always wanted–

Dr. Zoellner: That’s what I’m always busting your chops about Clay, is this secret number six and that is, fun. Some guys like Steve and I – – Steve and I, it’s natural for us. Fun is something that we don’t even have to really kind of schedule, but for guys like Clay who are grinders, he’s got to schedule for fun. That’s what his point is guys. You got a business, set some goals, but then you know what, it’s important to set the goals, but then you’ve got to celebrate when you make the goals. Otherwise, why are you celebrating? Why not are you said and make more money, and be more productive, and grow your business– I get that, but you’ve got to enjoy the journey. If you wait till– I don’t know, if I could just when I sell a million widgets, I’m going to be happy.

Steve: My rental [inaudible 00:58:19]

Clay: You won’t be.

Dr. Zoellner: When I sell that millionth cup of coffee, I tell you what bro, I’m going to be– it’s going to be some ground. I don’t know what it’s going to be.

Clay: Once I sell that one millionth cup of coffee, I swear I’m going to start having fun Z. I’ll start having fun.”

Dr. Zoellner: “Then I’ll know I’m there and I can actually enjoy it once I get there. You know what I mean?” No, it’s the journey guys. It’s the journey along the way. I tell you what, taking your time and celebrating with your staff because you guys are all on the boat together, you’re all rowing the boat together, you’re all building the business together, or I’d even be at your business, your vision, your widget that you came up with, your service, your product, but I’ll tell you what, to celebrate with them along the way, it’s just so good for the team. So good for the morale of the business. Just–

Clay: Mr. Steve–

Steve: There’s a good book I just read by Grant Cardone. It’s called Be Obsessed or Be Average. Go get it. You can get it on Otter Box. Go get it.

Clay: Be Obsessed or Be Average by Grant Cardone.

Steve: Grant Cardone wrote the book, the 10 actually– it’s a good book. What he says in this book is you need to take a break to where you can get your mind off your business and decompress, but a lot of people can’t decompress and like one or two or three days, right? If you’re not ready to completely disconnect and take three weeks off, you haven’t worked hard enough. You haven’t gotten there yet. I think a lot of people try to celebrate maybe too early. Don’t celebrate too early. That’s the thing.

Clay: I will just say this if you’re listening right now. There’s two extremes and I just want to make sure we’re rightly dividing this. Somebody listening right now is not grinding hard enough and celebrating way too early. Somebody else is listening right now and you are never celebrating and you are grinding hard all the time. Find the balance, but I will just– I’m just going to emphasize this

please put it into your schedule. Z, faithfully has a holiday party every year because you put in the calendar. You do it.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, we’re purposeful about that, but Steve, what I would say about that and just have a have a little slight to moderate fight on the air is that, if you’re setting a goal and you hit that goal, celebrate. That’s how you know when to celebrate. People go, “When do I know to buy pizza for my staff. When do I know to take everybody bowling? When do I know–?” how to set a goal, sit down be purposeful about that, “Hey our sales numbers for next month. This is our goal. This is what I want– this what we want to do, and when we do that, guess what, we’re going to do x, y, z.” something that’s financially appropriate and just like Puttin. Puttin just forces it him, no celebration. You will do, you will do.

Clay: Hey Z, I’ll point out this, I just want to argue with you. The Soviet Union did quite well and they never celebrated at all except for the collapse of their economy and the people being starving and just–

Dr. Zoellner: Just little things like that.

Clay: Little things like that, but other rather than that– wow.

Dr. Zoellner: That’s the great thing about capitalism and the great thing about our country and other countries around the world is that, you as the business owner, you get to decide what to do with your profit.

Clay: What?

Dr. Zoellner: I’m telling you, take some of your profit and cook that pig.

Clay: Cook that pig.

Dr. Zoellner: Cook it.

Clay: Get your cooked pig. Get your cooked pig. Steve, where can people find out more about you, my friend?

Dr. Zoellner: or, and hey set goals. That’s what I tell you.

Clay: Set goals thrivers. When we come back, we’re having coach Calvert come join us in the program as we break down Z’s business rules. Boom.

Dr. Zoellner: Break it down.

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Voice-over: You’re listening to the Thrive Time show on talk Radio 11.70.

Clay: Hello Tulsa and Oklahomees. Welcome back to the Thrive Time show during your afternoon. Many of you are listening at your office, you’re listening maybe in your car or you’re listening while you’re trying to get some work done, and some of you, as a few select– some a few elite members, a few elite members of our world audience there, you are at Oklahoma Joe’s right now. You are there right now enjoying some of those legendary baked beans while listening to the Thrive Time show. Z, it’s become kind of a problem. People are bringing in their own radios into Oklahoma Joe’s and they’re starting to bring their own radio and it’s like listen to the show while having their baked beans. It’s it’s a big problem Z.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, they can go on, and they can just stream that live right on their little– on their phone, put their earbuds in, and that way either they’re not disturbing anybody surround them. Though I don’t know if they’d be disturbing, they probably lean in and try to listen to the show too I would imagine because it’s like, “I want to be an entrepreneur too.”

Clay: I was in Vegas there last week, Z. And one of the things in Vegas that’s kind of a trend right now, is that young millennials are running around while listening to their favorite music. They get one of those sound tubes, those Bose sound tubes or that JBL sound tubes, and they put that in their backpack, and then they make you listen to what they want you to listen to. They run around town with their backpack on. Like in the old school, like the 80s, people had the boom box.

Dr. Zoellner: Oh, the big boom box, yes.

Clay: You carry that. And now they’re put in their backpack. You have to listen to whatever the person in front of you wants to listen to on the Strip. That’s kind of a move in Vegas there. Maybe that’s a move with the Thrive Time show.

Dr. Zoellner: Maybe that is a move, you just get your little– will call it a little boom bar instead of the boom box. Little boom, little boom boom because booms are a thing.

Clay: Yes, get yourself the boom, the digital beats pill or something, get that Bluetooth set up and just run around the town listening to the show and forcing other people to listen to the show with you.

Dr. Zoellner: Absolutely. They will probably lean in and go, “Hey, wait. What is that? What’s going on?”

Clay: All right. We’re talking today about your 10 rules in business. We only have time to get into five of them today, but we’re going to get into your– we’re talking about your 10 rules in business. The rules that you live by, that you’ve used to successfully grow your business. We have a very special guest on the show here in hour number two. It’s coach Calvert. Coach, how are you?

Calvert: I’m good. I’m actually hungry now. You we’re talking about Joe’s. I got hungry for baked beans all of a sudden.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] If that happens, you’re welcome. When you go and get them this afternoon, you’re welcome.

Calvert: Okay, good.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, it’s a cold Monday afternoon.

Clay: Oh yes.

Dr. Zoellner: You think about those burnt ends and baked beans and I’m thinking, “That’s a sustaining meal for anybody. Anybody.”

Clay: Coach, for anybody who is not familiar with you and what you’re all about, can you tell us a little bit about what’s the name of your business and how can people find out more about your business?

Calvert: It’s called Score Basketball. We’ve been in business for 21 years. We’re in Bixby, but we have people that come from literally all over the state and other states.

Clay: Wow. 21 years you’ve been in business. 21 years now. This holiday season, you have a Christmas Basketball camp. What’s that all about my friend?

Calvert: The 27th through the 30th, gym will be packed out. We’ll have 80 to 100 kids. It’s a high energy camp because parents love for their kids to get out after Christmas and get lots of energy.

Clay: How much does that cost, my friend?

Calvert: Only $99. We have a great package.

Clay: If someone wants to get started with the program or wants to learn more about the Christmas camp, where can they do that?

Coach Calvert: All you got to do is google Score Basketball though.

Clay: All right. Now Dr. Z, we’re talking about rule number four, which is you love, the piggy bank. Your business rule number four, the piggy bank. What does that mean.

Dr. Zoellner: Well, the book I’m writing is called The Business pig, and that’s why when they’re going to and when they listen to some past shows or maybe they missed a segment or two, or maybe they want to re-listen to a show because they weren’t taking good notes, right.

Clay: No one ever does that.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] Others are you pull up the website and there’s a picture that smacks you right at the face, right off the bat, and the one on the left is Clay. Clay, it looks like he’s like, “Oh, I would say half robotic in his thing.”

Clay: Voom, voom.

Dr. Zoellner: We call him Clay Tron. We know he’s from a planet, we just know it’s not earth. It’s some planet where they’re half-robotic-half-flesh, half or he was mainly– we’re not sure. We were still researching–

Clay: I was manufactured, I was not born.

Dr. Zoellner: We’re still researching.

Calvert: I would agree with that.

Dr. Zoellner: Then on the right-hand-side is a picture of me and there’s an actual– There’s a pig in front of me and people go, “What’s up? What–?”

Clay: “What’s the deal with that pig? Is he a pig farmer too?”

Dr. Zoellner: “What are you up to? Is that something else– are you selling bacon now on the side?” No. I’m writing a book, Business Pig, and all my stories, all my analogies deal with pig. The first one was, pigs get fat, hogs get butchered.

Clay: Okay.

Dr. Zoellner: The second one was, be the pig at breakfast, not the chicken.

Clay: Got it.

Dr. Zoellner: Right. The third one is, know when to cook the pig, sort of all dealing with a pig, all kind of farmyard stories, and then this one is piggy bank. For all of you out there that are listening, that are saying, Listen. I’m getting inspired. I’m going listen to these guys, this Thrive Time show. They’re giving me that nerve to do my dream and to start my business. One of the things you’re going to need to start your business is a little old thing called money. Money.

[backgroung music]

Clay: Money. Z, it sounds kind of eerie, kind of scary almost. Money? Money?

Dr. Zoellner: I know. I know.

Clay: To start a business?

Dr. Zoellner: It’s amazing how many businesses fail because they didn’t start with enough money. Capital. Hoard chest.

Clay: I thought Bernie Sanders was going to help us all. I thought Bernie– I was waiting for Bernie to come out there. He’s got grants. He’s got loans, a free college, free phones, free– Bernie. Wo.

Dr. Zoellner: I don’t know why Bernie had to show every now and then. He just comes on and does hack’s it. Is he righteous?

Clay: Robert, wait for the government. Wait for the government. They will help you. They’ve done very great work in USSR, in China, they’re doing wonderful things in France. Those guys are–

Dr. Zoellner: That’s the other channel, No Home and Garden. We can’t talk politics.

Clay: Sorry. Bernie out.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] Okay, Bernie out. What happens is people– listen. You’ve got a dream, you want to start a business. I’m going to give you a clue right now.

Clay: Here we go.

Dr. Zoellner: Start saving some money. And you go, “How do I do that? I’ve got 10 bills and I can only afford nine of them as it is.” I’m going to tell you what, do you really need that new car really?

Clay: Do you?

Dr. Zoellner: Really? Do you really need the latest iPhone? Really? Really?

Clay: Cable. Do you need cable?

Dr. Zoellner: Do you need all the stations that you have on the cable? Do you really need that? Do you really need that extra piece of furniture in your house because you’ve got nowhere to sit now?

Clay: I have a story that I want to tier up for– I want to tier up for Coach Calvert. I have a story that says– you’ll have yours. I’m at Best Buy just a couple of days ago. I’m buying a new computer for one of our graphic designers. I go there and the guy tells me, he says, “Hey, what do you do for a living?” I tell him about what I do and he goes, “Oh, I’ve heard of you guys. The I have heard your show. I heard about you guys.” He’s asked me this very question, true story. He says, “How do you say it? How do you do it.” Then he proceeds to explain to me that there’s a world of war and war craft like video game tournament or something, and then he requested time-off so that he could do that, and because the entry fee for that was a certain amount, because he had to buy the new console to play the game, and because he had the entry fee and all that, it was really hard for him to save.

Dr. Zoellner: You’re going to spend your money where you want to spend your money, trust me. No one– Hey, this–

Your money is going to go where you tell it to go, that’s just the way the world is. Here is what you do. It’s a little thing that I call, “Delay gratification”.

Clay: Oh come on now.

Dr. Zoellner: And so, so many times you see people get out of school and going to get the big house, they go buy the new car. It’s got to be a Mercedes or some German make or some high-end Japanese, whatever the move is, and they get themselves in so much debt that they just got a grind in their head, that there’s no way he can save money.

Commentator: Holy cow.

Dr. Zoellner: Hey, oh my Gosh, holy cow? The idea is to live below your means. If you can’t save any money you’re spending too much money. I know that sounds crazy folks, I know it’s easy to do, but that’s just reality of it.

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: Some of you are going to have a clever enough idea. Some of you are going to be able to shark tank to right people and you’re going to be able to raise enough capital, but I promise you this, if you don’t have your own skin in the game– that’s when things would people come up to me and want me to help raise capital for them. I always look up at them and say, “How much skin do you have in the game? How much money are you putting in personally?” When they say, “None, it’s a great idea.”

Clay: Nothing bro just my–

Dr. Zoellner: “It’s a coffee house bro, it’s going to be awesome.”

Clay: I’ll give you my idea for free, bro.

Dr. Zoellner: It can revolutionized the coffee business, man. Everybody should just give me like 2 to 50 thousand dollars bro, because it’s just– you don’t understand this coffee is the best coffee ever.

Clay: Z, when we come back, coach Calvert is going to teach us how he was able to save money to start, stay tuned.

[background music]

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[background music]

Speaker: Live, local, now you’re listening to The Thrive time show on Talk radio 1170.

Clay: All right thrivers, welcome back to The Thrive time show, your audio Dojo of Mojo in the show that you go to foshow to learn to start and grow a business. That was Michael Jack and now we are back. My name is Clay Clark former SBA entrepreneur of the year and here with me today is Dr. Robert Zoellner. Sir how are you doing?

Dr. Zoellner: I’m fantastic. It’s a Monday and you know you have a great Monday you have a great week, so just smile, be happy. I had a great weekend, we had a big Christmas party on Saturday. You’re at the top for the Cineplex, shout out to all those workers there. They did a fantastic job, the food was great. The Deejaying was great. Marshall, actually was the DJ.

Clay: Mixmaster Morris?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, he’s very tall guy.

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: He did a great job and it was just, so lovely and that’s one of the things we just were talking about in the earlier segment is celebrating with your people. Celebrating with the people that have helped you row that boat. Row, row, row your boat. That’s what your business is and you want to all row in same direction and want to row with efficiency. When you do that, you hit those milestones, celebrate. That’s what we were talking about earlier. That’s what we did this weekends.

Clay: Z, we are talking about your 10 rules of business. Your 10 rules of business for your upcoming book, The Business Pig, what were rules?

Dr. Zoellner: I’ve got a bonus 11, but will do that tomorrow.

Clay: You’ve got bonus 11?

Dr. Zoellner: I got well to sneak of course. I’m always going– you know me I’m always going to bonus.

Clay: Now, today we only have time to get into to five. Now, we are on rule number four which is the piggy bank. Okay, the piggy bank. We have Coach Calvert, the founder of The founder of, which by the way if you’re looking for a great Christmas basketball camp for your kids, if you’re looking for a place where they can improve their skills and also be mentored how to just become great kids, I’m telling you what, the Christmas basketball camps are legendary. But coach, the people want to know how did you get the funding that you needed to start

Coach Calvert: First thing my wife and I laid out a budget and we figured out what’s the minimum that we had to have.

Clay: Okay, the minimum.

Calvert: That was the first thing.

Calvert: We figured out what can we do without? We didn’t want to spend money that we didn’t need at that point. The car thing you were talking about, we both we were living in old cars, were driving old cars. We didn’t spend money up front, we spent a little as we possibly could because we had heard the same thing that most businesses fail because of money.

Clay: Now Jack John Maxwell, the legendary a best-selling author, he says this, he’s a leadership expert, he’s also business expert business, consultant speaker guy, he says, “A budget is telling your money where to go.” He talks about this. Dave Ramsey says the same thing. He says, “Your budget tells your money where to go, where most people wonder where their money went.” You made a budget that’s step one. Now how did you fund it? I mean you just kind of pay-as-you-go? Or did you have some money you’d save? Or did you do your credit cards? How did you do it man?

Calvert: The first thing was, we did have money because we’ve saved all along. I don’t spend a lot of money, I’m very careful with it. I don’t have to have the newest and greatest but we also borrowed a certain amount of money you and we had a game plan though of how we were going to pay that money off. Right of the bat we want to get out of debt. We didn’t want to stay in debt.

Clay: I have of a funny story for you about funding the business that involves a little bit a jackassery from yours truly. You’re ready?

Calvert: These are the best stories, I love them.

Clay: My wife at the back before we were married and we were dating at Oral Roberts University, and I was so excited because I flew her to Minnesota to meet my parents my plan was to propose there in Minnesota. She’s almost 20 at this point, she was 19 years old. She flies to Minnesota. I’d been working all summer doing construction for [unintelligible 01:16:33]. The move was the first 40 hours a week, you got paid 10 an hour, $10 per hour. Then from hours 40 to 60, you got time and a half and from 60 to 80 got double time. I also worked as a home health aide and in my man book it’s like maybe a moleskin journal. I wrote down exactly how much money I needed it was like 21,000 whatever. I’d factored in the taxes and every light, every speaker, every microphone, it was all detailed and I factored in the Mazda MPV Van that we’re going to buy. I was so proud of myself, I’d fact factored all this in.

Dr. Zoellner: This is to start your DJ business right?

Clay: It’s called

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, and what purpose were you– “Okay, to start my business, I need this much money”, and you just kind of reverse engineered it. Okay.

Clay: That business, was working about 75 hours a week to do this that point.

Dr. Zoellner: Okay.

Clay: My wife, and at the time my fiancé Vanessa, she flies in the Minnesota. When we get there, I had buy all the equipment at the guitar Center in Minneapolis and the problem was, is that I didn’t factor in that I needed to advertise my business. I literally wrote a cheque, I’d pay cash for all the equipment because I didn’t want to have debt. I was totally sold on the concept of no debt.

Speaker: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on talk radio 1170.

Clay: Yes I’ve been listening to a ton of Dave Ramsey or something. I paid cash for the equipment. I paid cash for the Mazda MPV with 220,000 miles on it and I’d never factored in emergencies. Here we go–

Dr. Zoellner: Uh-oh, a rainy day fund.

Clay: My wife and I are sharing the car, we sharing the Mazda MPV. She would drop me off at Panera bread and I work from Panera bread from like 9 AM to 9 PM, while she be working Office Depot, anyway it was crazy. We’re sharing a car. I had three jobs, I had a job at Applebee’s, Target and DirecTV and on the days where I can do appointment, she’d drop me off at Panera we’re sharing the car. One day, Z, the transmission goes off, and we had save nothing for the transmission. We’d saved every dollar we could to start the business but we didn’t have anything save for emergency.

Now if I could’ve gone back in time, I would’ve paid some cash down and would’ve used credit so that I would’ve had monthly payments as opposed to having everything paid for debt-free with no reserves.

Dr. Zoellner: Right.

Clay: It wasn’t for my dad Mr. Tom Clark. I call my dad, I said, “Dad, bad deal, transmission went out and I have zero dollars” and he is, “Son, I know you’re working three jobs, what’s going on?” He didn’t chastise me but I’m sure he wanted to. Then he goes, “So you’re telling me you don’t have a car, and you have a DJ show this weekend, and you’re working three jobs and how much have you saved?” I’m like, “I don’t have anything saved.”

Dr. Zoellner: [unintelligible 01:19:04] I spent all that to get my business grow.

Clay: I was so proud that I was debt-free.

Dr. Zoellner: Oh yes, yes.

Clay: So, my dad was, “You know what I’m going to do? I’ll be there tomorrow.” Me and my dad we weren’t wealthy and I go, “What?” he goes, “I’ll do, use a vacation day, I’ll be there.” My dad drove it to Tulsa from Minneapolis, 12 hours on a Thursday. He got to Tulsa we drove the car over to M and M automotive in Broken Arrow. My dad paid the $1800 to fix the transmission and without sleeping drove straight up north to Minnesota, to go back to work at Medtronic at on a Friday. He did all that–

Dr. Zoellner: God bless him.

Clay: He did it. I wasn’t able to do that well if it wasn’t for my dad helping me I would have not been able to rebound over that situation. I’m just saying that if you’re listening right now, please don’t go so militant on being debt-free that you have no money left for reserve because Z you’re going to have bad things happen right?

Dr. Zoellner: You’re going to have bad things happen and we’re not speaking early, it’s just reality of it. You’ve got to plan for that and you got have a little I just

interloped it a little bit and said your rainy day fund. But you got to have that. The rule of thumb is maybe a month’s worth of finances in the bank. Maybe whatever your budget is for a month. You want to at least have that. Yes, preferably maybe two or three but at least a month in the bank to fall back on in case you need it. Like that happens transmission goes out you’ve got all the speakers. You’ve got all the stuff. You got the mics. You got the lights. You may even have fog machine, knowing you.

Clay: I did and I had bookings I had to get to and I couldn’t get to them without a vehicle.

Dr. Zoellner: So you can’t run it that close to the edge. You always got to have a little cash reserve and like you said the thing you said about that is that you should have done some of it in credit. That was the key what you said right there. Well, how will I go into debt? But that’s okay. That’s a way to raise capital is debt and that’s okay. If you working hard and you got a plan and you’re going to do your business. It’s okay to have some debt. It’s all right. Some people get freaked out by that but don’t get freaked out by it.

Clay: Now coach when we come back we’re going to talk a little bit about this piggy bank and the importance of savings. But we also want to get into these inevitable emergencies that are going to happen. I’d like to hear you share one of your stories about how you kind of– these emergencies pop up in business and I know a lot of people listening right now are going, “Yes, but you don’t understand. I had an employee steal from me. I had a problem. You don’t understand. I’m different than you I had this emergency.” We want to kind of give you an opportunity to share about maybe some of the emergencies you’ve had in your business career and how through the process of saving you were able to push right through it because you’ve been running for 21 years, man. 21 years. Stay tuned Thrivers we come back.

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Clay: Welcome back to the Thrive Time Show and we are broadcasting from the West Coast of the Arkansas River within the world headquarters and inside the newly renovated box that rocks. My name is Captain Clay Tiberias Clark and you are listening to the Thrive Time Show. As always I’m joined here with Dr. Robert – is just in from our home office – Zoellner how are you?

Dr. Zoellner: Hello Thrive nation. Happy Monday afternoon. You know we’ve got winter finally showed up here in Tulsa Oklahoma. There was snow. I’m actual little light dusting you would say this weekend.

Clay: My five kids were pumped up about–

Dr. Zoellner: You know when you’re a kid you just love the snow. And then when you’re a business man you just hate the snow.

Clay: My wife and I we commented on that about how I was going, “No, no snow.” I know what that means. That means I’m going to have to go open up my phone and I’m going to have text messages from my managers saying that this person can’t get to work and that person can’t get to work. I’m going to have to get the hummer. I get out the hummer and will have to drive around town and pick people up. It’s like a big school bus of picking up people who have two wheel drive vehicles. We have a very special guest here. A very special guest who’s blessing us during this Christmas and winter season. It is Coach Calvert of Coach how are you?

Coach Calvert: I’m good. I’m enjoying my time.

Clay: Now coach for anybody who is just now tuning in we’re talking about Dr. Z and his 10 rules of business. His 10 rules of business from his upcoming book, The Business Pig. We’re talking about rule number four which is the piggy bank. It’s the concept of saving. Now I want to read this notable quotable to you and then I want to get your firsthand experience about how saving has enabled you to push through some pretty tough adversities over at scorebball over the years. So here’s and notable quotable.This is from W Clement Stone the founder of the Combined Insurance Company which went on to become a billion dollar business. He says, “If you cannot save money then the seeds of greatness are not in you.”

Dr. Zoellner: Harsh. Ouch.

Clay: Coach have you ever had any adversity at scorebball that you were able to get through because you had saved some money?

Coach Calvert: Oh many, but I’ll name two.

Clay: Okay, here we go.

Calvert: One was Christmas time about two or three years ago a young man all of sudden decided he needed $20,000 more than I did.

Clay: Yes, that makes a lot of sense.

Calvert: He bragged about what he was buying for his family and all. If I hadn’t have saved money we would have been in big trouble.

Clay: He stole money from you?

Calvert: Yes.

Clay: A person worked for you stole money from you?

Calvert: Very sneaky young man.

Clay: How did he do it?

Calvert: Through Paypal he was stealing all of our deposits.

Clay: How brutal.

Dr. Zoellner: Brutal. Brutal. Brutal. That was a $20,000 hit that’s what you’re saying?

Calvert: And what he did wrong was he tried to do it too fast and got greedy and we were able to easily see it.

Clay: So what if criminals were listening the key is you want to steal slowly over time not a bunch at one time.

Calvert: No he wasn’t real smart. I have a great secretary though who picked up on it.

Clay: Okay now is there another adversity you’ve run into in your business career at

Calvert: Yes, I unfortunately had six back surgeries and I’ve had to shut down for a month at a time, two weeks at a time. I’ve had great people to take over like Marcus and Courtney and Kim, great employees, but if we wouldn’t have been saving it would have been really tough. Because I had to go to Remming Germany for a month and had back surgery.

Clay: I have a terrible story that it’s pretty positive for me but terrible for the person involved. It just kind of like– I don’t want you get the opinion that I’m feeling that I was excited about the financial calamities of my competition but Warren Buffett says, “You need to be greedy when the market is fearful.” Again I repeat Warren Buffett said, ” Be greedy when the market is fearful.” Well in the DJ business it’s kind of a low barrier of entry so everybody goes out there. They get highly motivated. They buy their own sound and lights and equipment. Now they’re a DJ. Boom.

And so what happens is they all run into an emergency and then they go, “I’m out of business.” Boom. They put their stuff up on Craiglist and I buy it. Boom. That’s my move. So my whole thing is I just wait for my competition to go out of business and buy their stuff at 10% off every dollar. I’m not kidding I bought probably $100,000 of equipment for like 10 grand over a six-month window from competitors that went out of business between Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

Calvert: Did you feel bad doing it?

Clay: No I feel really good about it. Rule number five, sync up. Showtime Z the blue ribbon pig, showtime, the blue ribbon pig, and coach I’m not feeling bad. I’m still feeling good about those purchases.

[background music]

Dr. Zoellner: The fair comes around once a year. And when it’s fair time that means it’s showtime. The Ferris wheel and showing off your pig. I tell you that time of year you got to get out the soap and the brushes. You got to scrub that little rascal up because they been in the mud. They been down snorting around in the slop. You got to take it to the fair and you go to show off your pig.

Clay: So what does that mean in business? What are you talking about?

Calvert: I can’t wait to hear this.

Dr. Zoellner: I don’t know. I got the pig thing going on. Here’s the deal, Life is going to throw a bunch of mud at you. Listen entrepreneurs out there, business owners you’re going to get up in the morning and you may step in some mud. There might be someone that emailed you mud. You may hit your head on some mud and when you go into your business and you’re dealing with your customers you can’t show up muddy.

Clay: What does that mean?

Dr. Zoellner: That means that when you are doing that thing that you do. You’re selling your widget. You’re out selling your DJ business as Clay was doing.

Clay: Selling insurance, running a restaurant, cutting hair whatever you’re doing.

Dr. Zoellner: Whatever you’re doing you have to always be in the back of your mind thinking this. I know it sounds a little cheesy. I use to literally say this to myself before I would walk into a patient. Stuff would be going on, there would be a problem, bathroom leaking, life got mud going on. What’s called mud? It’s a general term. But when I walk into that exam room in the early days I had to shake it off. I had to clean all that mud off. I had to get my head right and realize that I can’t go in there in a bad mood. I can’t go in there talk about the mud. I can’t go in there fussing about the mud. I can’t even show that I had mud on me.

I had to do what I call showtime and I walk in that exam room and understand that the most important thing I can be doing right then in my life was connecting with the patient, dealing with the patient, listening to the patient, and fixing the problem that the patient came in for. And doing that with a smile on my face and with excellence and then once they left I could go back to my office and deal with the mud.

Clay: I have a very pointed notable quotable from Winston Churchill that I want to read to you. He says, “Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.” Now the thing is that if we’re all going to have adversities. If you’re listening right now chances are you’re having some kind of adversity in your faith, in your family, in your finances, in your fitness, in your friendship something’s happening.

and this past year, Z, you’ve been such a great mentor for me through that time. You know, my dad got diagnosed with ALS.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes.

Clay: For those of you who know what it’s like to see somebody go through a debilitating disease like Lou Gehrig’s disease, it was awful. And, the thing about it that made it awful was that I had to get up there, and sort of just march through the work day. I remember twice, I had an appointment with a lady name Tamara. As soon as the meeting was over, I hopped in the Hummer and I pull over there to Creek Nation the Turn Pike, headed back to Broken Arrow front of the Riverside.

I pulled over and had a complete meltdown. It happened twice because her meeting was the last meeting of the day. I don’t think she would have had any idea. The thing is, that was rough for me. I don’t know what you are going through now Thrivers, but I know that you are going through something. I encourage you to push on. If you are going through hell, don’t stop.

Calvert: I had a son who had Muscular dystrophy in the shins, the same thing. If we can make it through that, then you could make it through anything. You could make it.

Clay: Now coach, for anybody who’s looking for something fun to take their kids to during this Holiday Season, during this Christmas Season. What are you guys doing there to score basketball camps this Christmas Season?

Calvert: Well, there will be the normal games and things like that, but what our camps are known for is for their work camps. Meaning they are going to get a ton done every day. They are going to go home tired. I’ve been told that we do more in one day than other camps do in a whole week cause of all the activities.

Clay: How much does it cost?

Calvert: $99.

Clay: Where can they learn more about it?


Clay: Now Thrivers, on tomorrow’s show we’re going to get into the next five, the next [laughs] five of Dr. Z’s 10 rules for business success. But, Dr. Z If I am listening right now, If I do want to start a business or if I want to grow my existing business. I have three options I can do. There are three things I can do today.

Dr. Zoellner: Tell me about them.

Clay: Option number one, I can go to and why would I or why should I go there?

Dr. Zoellner: Because It’s business coaching excellence. We broke it down by topics. We broke it down by mentors. We found the best of the best to teach you, to coach you to be your business coach. Because you are going to learn by coaching. You are either going to learn by mentors or mistakes. So, we’ve gathered the mentors, great men, and women around the world. We filmed them and we made it topical. We made it fun, its edutainment, and for only $19 a month. I mean you spent more at Starbucks probably on a Pumpkin Peppermint loca laca mocha.

Clay: It’s the world best business school, it’s $19 a month. You got to check it out, and by the way we have a scholarship program available. So, if you spent $17 this month at Starbucks, you only have $2 left. We’ll work with you but the point is we want to help you start and grow a successful business.

Option number two, you come to a workshop. In-person, two-day workshop, that’s 15 hours, over two days. We teach you time management, customer service, sales, search engines optimization, accounting. You want to learn more about it? Go to you can find all the information there. Or Z, if someone in-person, one on one business coaching. Why is that so valuable to have a business coach?

Dr. Zoellner: Well it’s so valuable because I tell you what. You want something, you got a question. You got something that urgent. Your transmission went out on your business, and you need to talk to someone right now, today. That’s how one on one business coaching access. And, also to make sure that they are holding you accountable to get done the things you are supposed to get done.

Clay: Now Thrive Nation as always we thank you for joining us today. On tomorrow show, we are going to get into Z’s next five business rules. Z, I’m excited, you’re excited as always. Three, Two, One, Boom.

[01:33:38] [END OF AUDIO]


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