Business Coach S.H.O.W. | How to Find Capital or Sell Your Business

Business Coach | Ask Clay & Z Anything

Audio Transcription

On today’s business coach program the Thrive15 team teaches you how to find capital or sell your business. Tune in today to hear Business Coach, Clay Clark, and business tycoon, Dr. Z., get into it with Jared Pawelka about how to find capital in your business.

Listen To The Business Coach Explain How To Find Capital : Podcast Transcript

Announcer: Now broadcasting from the center of the universe and the world headquarters. Let’s go. Presenting the world’s only business school without the BS with optometrist and entrepreneur Dr. Robert Zoellner, and the former small business administration entrepreneur of the year, Clay Clark. It’s the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170. Three, two, one. Boom.

Clay: All right Tulsa, green country. Welcome back to your favorite radio show and mine. It’s the Thrive Time Show. It’s Tulsa’s only local business radio show. Yes, it is, as rumor has it, it is business school without the BS. My name is Clay Clark. I’m the former SBA Entrepreneur of the year, and with me here present inside the box that rocks is none other than Dr. Robert Zoellner. Sir, how are you doing?

Dr. Robert Zoellner: Dude I am still kind of on a tad bit of a high.

Clay Clark: Still on a tad bit of a high?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, I tell you what, the last two days shows, Monday and Tuesday. If you didn’t catch them, they are like my baby.

Clay: They are your– Was it me?

Dr. Zoellner: I mean they are like a baby.

Clay: Like, they have the extra body fat and they’re unable to walk. Is that what you’re saying?

Dr. Zoellner: No teeth. They’re just– No. It really was my heart the last couple of days. We did my top ten business rules. I’m writing that book about halfway down what we call Business Pig. If you missed Monday and Tuesday show, it was just– I just felt like it was a little part of me that I just gave to the thrivers.

Clay: I’m going to tell you why. I was so excited to have the show because you run your optometry clinic. You run A-Z Medical. You mentor many, many people personally. You run your ranch. You run the auction, and you run them all by those ten core principles. That guides you. That’s like your values. You make decisions. I see you make decisions based upon your rules that you’ve almost now canonized in your upcoming book, The Business pig. It’s just beautiful.

Dr. Zoellner: It’s beautiful. Like I said, I’m still a little bit of a high. Today is really fun because we’ll talk about money.

Clay: Now I’ll tell you what, I’m not saying that your business rules weren’t incredible, but I am going to say the guy next to me, he’s a beautiful man. This is a beautiful man. If you’re on Facebook live right now– If you’re not, you should be. If you’re not on Facebook live, you really need to be. We have Mr. Jared Pawelka on the show today. Many people want to know, “Who is Jared Pawelka? What does he do?”

He’s an investment banker which he basically helps guide business owners on how to raise capital, how to sell their business, how to acquire other businesses. Jared, for the people out there who do not know much about you, could you ascribe or describe what it is that you do my friend?

Jared: Sure. We help build great businesses and then market them in a way that you get-

Clay: Is it– You make it easier for you to raise capital? Is that what you do? I mean you make it– I mean is it– Without a guy like you, is it hard to raise capital?

Jared: It’s a lot harder. See, that it can be distracting. People tend to get off their core competencies and somebody like us steps in, helps them market that business, talk about it in a way that’s effective to the market, and they end up getting what they want a lot faster.

Clay: I was looking through your resume, and I’ve known you here for a while, but rumor has it my friend is that you actually used to work with JPMorgan. Is that correct?

Jared: That’s right. Yes, I was in the private bank and worked really closely with the commercial bank.

Clay: You’ve actually helped structure of $100 million in capital raises. What does that mean?

Jared: I’ve been a part of putting together the capital structure, seen it from a lot of different angles both in lending from a traditional banking standpoint and an investment banking standpoint. So thoroughly understand what the concerns are of operators and of course the lenders as well as investors.

Clay: Here is the situation, Z. I see this all the time. I see it work. You have an existing business and the guys making about $300,000 a year of gross sales. Maybe he’s a printer. He prints signs, banners.

Dr. Zoellner: I print signs, stickers. If you have a sign you need it printed, I will print your sign.


Clay: I print wonders, signs and wonders. If it’s a guy who prints, he has a printing business, he’s got about $300,000 of gross sales and he wants to grow the business. He needs to raise capital. The local bank turns him down. The local bank says, “I’m not going to lend you money right now.” He needs to get money from another source.

Dr. Zoellner: What? The thing about it is that just wears me out. It’s like the stock market. You have a business that’s making money and they say, “Well, we’re not going to make quite as much as we thought we’re going to make in fourth quarter.” Those stocks just goes swoosh right off the cliff.

Clay: A little quick. I’d like to– I’m not going to try to paint you into a corner and get you in trouble but you’ve actually served on the board of a bank. You’ve actually had to be a part of the board-

Dr. Zoellner: I know.

Clay: -that has turned down people. You’ve actually been a part of that team who’s rejected people for small business loans. What’s wrong with you?

Dr. Zoellner: Breaks my heart [laughs]. I figured out I’m not a good banker because I want to say yes to everybody. I’m like, “Yes, of course, I believe in you. Of course, that’s a great vision. Of course, you’re going to do it. Let’s just say yes. Give him the money.”

Clay: “Give him the money.” The thing is that you– That’s one situation. Someone who is listening right now, you have an existing business. You’ve been told no by everybody in the world and you need to raise money. Another person’s listening right now and you want to sell your company. Your business is doing great and you want to sell that thing. By the way, you don’t want to put a ‘for sale’ sign on your menus at your restaurant going, “We’re going to sell the company,” say because if people know that you’re going to be for sale, it might be hard to book holiday caterings, right?


People think you’re not going to be in business anymore.

Dr. Zoellner: Exactly. You know what’s so frustrating as a business guy? You think, “Hey, I would like to own a business in X category,” but they just don’t put a for sale sign out in front of it. You’ve got to be very proactive. That’s probably something we’ll get on the show today, about being proactive, about finding a business to buy because a lot of people if they have an existing business, they’re not just going to put a for sale sign. It’s REMAX, or whatever, Coldwell Banker first sale business. They don’t do that because the value then really plummets off the hill because then people would lose faith in that they’re going to shut him down and it’s a bad deal.

Clay: Also, if you’re listening right now and you want to go out there and you want to buy a business. You’re going, “My business is doing great. I want to acquire my competition.” A lot of times you don’t want to tell your competition that you want to buy them because then that drives the price up and that kind of thing.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, they’ll be sneaky meek sneaker-son.

Clay: Years ago, you sold your auction. Did you not? Did you sell?

Dr. Zoellner: I sold an auction, yes, Tulsa Auto Auction, yes.

Clay: Did you end up using a broker in that process or did you do it yourself? Did you have a banker involved? Who helped you sell that thing?

Dr. Zoellner: Well I had– They approached me. Their team approached me and I just did the negotiating on my side.

Clay: Really?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. When something’s not for sale and someone approaches, you get premium for it. That’s like the best case scenario if you’re selling. If you’re behind that, not so much.

Clay: Have you ever tried to raise money through a bank and the bank has ever told you no? Have you ever tried to get funding to start a business and you’ve ever been told no by a bank?

Dr. Zoellner: Oh, I’ve got a great story. Do you want me to unleash it now?

Clay: Go ahead and unleash it because you’re just going to be walking us through the nitty gritty here and I want to just– I want to make sure everybody understand that this is the thing. People need what Jared does. This is a common thing.

Dr. Zoellner: Sweat this. You’re ready for this.

Clay: I’m ready.

Dr. Zoellner: True story. This is my true story. I’m getting out of optometry school in 1990 out of Northeastern State University.

Clay: It’s a hot University.

Dr. Zoellner: Hot university, go RiverHawks. They were the Redmen back then but now they’re the RiverHawks, okay?

Clay: Yes, it’s more foot of the craft.

Dr. Zoellner: Oh, yes. Great school and just Steve turns the president of it. They do a great job. Well done NSU, Northeastern State University. I’m getting out of NSU College of Optometry, and I found a man who wanted to sell his optometry business. I’m like, “Oh, this is just the ultimate,” being business by myself.

Clay: Was this at the ’80s?

Dr. Zoellner: No. It was the ’90s. I got to school in 1990.

Clay: You got out of school in 1990?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, 1990.

Clay: This was like ’89. This is ’90?

Dr. Zoellner: This is ’90. Well, I graduated in May of ’90 and so I think most the negotiations actually happened in ’90 if we’re going to get technical on me.

Clay: This is a radio show, but this is onfhow I picture you. This is the soundtrack of that time.


Dr. Zoellner: You want to go with an 80s song. Here we go, yes.

Clay: [crosstalk]. It’s called a transition.

Dr. Zoellner: You don’t want to buy your business [crosstalk]. Let’s do it a little bit more quicker [crosstalk].

Clay: After we buy the business, let’s go roller skating.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] I approach him. We negotiate the deal, right? In today’s standards in my mind, it’s not that much money, but back that was an arm and leg. It was like $250,000.

Clay: What?

Dr. Zoellner: Which is like a quarter of a million. A million dollars.

Clay: 250,000 big ones.

Dr. Zoellner: He said, “Okay, here’s the deal. Here’s the price,” and I said, “Oh, that’s awesome.” I put on my finest suit I have.

Clay: The finest suit.

Dr. Zoellner: The finest, because you know why?

Clay: Why?

Dr. Zoellner: I wasn’t selling. I mean, I wasn’t buying, I was selling. I slicked up and I got as groomed as I could get.

Clay: You looked good?

Dr. Zoellner: Good, yes.

Clay: You walked in there looking almost spiritual.

Dr. Zoellner: I walk into the bank and I have my briefcase in my right hand.

Clay: Look at that guy.

Dr. Zoellner: I nod to all the tellers and all the bank people.

Clay: Do you want to sack us? [laughs]

Dr. Zoellner: My appointment at 2:00 PM and I’m there 1:53 to make sure that they know I mean business.

Clay: Wow, Smith, that guy is early. He must be a big deal.

Dr. Zoellner: He obviously wants something. I go and I sit down and I tell him my plan. I tell him the deal, and bank after bank after bank. I went through every bank in Tulsa, every bank.

Clay: Really?

Dr. Zoellner: They said the big N-O. You have no collateral. You’re new. You don’t know what you’re doing. You’re young. You’ve never done this. We don’t believe in you. Get out of here. Security. They hit that security– I didn’t read the table security but I knew that was

my- I know that’s time to leave. The red light would flash, time to get out. I finally found a bank and they say, “Here’s what we’ll do, we like you for whatever reason. There’s something about you, we like.”

Clay: We love your body. You’re so beautiful, man.

Dr. Zoellner: “Your tie choice is really, really good. Is that a holiday tie? Did you get that from Dillard’s?”

Clay: Who brought the wassle?

Dr. Zoellner: Okay, basically, listen, Here’s what we’ll do, we’re going to do the loan. How is this? I mean, I passed out, but there is caveats. We’re going to release half the money up front and the other half the gentleman selling the business will have to keep it in a CD at our bank. Where we can hammer on it for six months and then you prove you can do this thing in six months will release the money. I thought, “Oh, my gosh, that’s a yes.”

Clay: That’s a great deal.

Dr. Zoellner: “Where do sign?”

Clay: Let’s do it, let’s do this thing.

Dr. Zoellner: I went back to the gentleman I was buying the business from, who by the way, I had agreed to work at a nominal fee until I purchased the practice so that I could learn the business, learn the patients and get my feet underneath me.

Clay: That’s sounds like a virtual no-brainer.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. I go to him and I’m so excited. I still got my briefcase in my hand. I come running to him. Got my suit and I’m like, “Hoo, oh, yes.” And I said to him, “Hey, I got the deal.” And he is like, “You got the deal?” I told him what it would require and he looked at me and he goes, “[sighs], Hmm. No, that’s not. I said I needed all the money up front and I give you the keys and walk away but, no, I’m not going to do that.” I’m like, “Are you kidding me?” I didn’t do the deal. You know what I did for the next year of my life?

Clay: Go with a van down by the river?

Dr. Zoellner: No, no. I did something crazy. I got a job.

Clay: What?

Dr. Zoellner: I know, it’s crazy.

Clay: If Bernie Sanders were here, he would totally– “You got to go to the government and ask the government for help. You never want to get another job, you never want to work more than 36 hours a week.” Bernie Sanders, Bernie Sanders.

Dr. Zoellner: No, no, no, that’s the other station. We are not politics.

Clay: On behalf of the Rush Limbaugh Show, I’m sorry for intruding in the Thrive Time Show.

Dr. Zoellner: We are not politics or home and garden. When you plant your tulips– we’re not talking about.

Clay: Sorry for the Bernie outbreak.

Dr. Zoellner: Anyway, I was just shocked, I was like, “Oh, my gosh.” I realized pretty soon that– I don’t know that he was– because I thought that was a pretty good deal. You really forgot coming out college and da, da, da. I worked for people for a year, saved my money, worked seven days a week because I could. Saved up my little money delayed my gratification. Saved my money, got my little work chest. Then about a year and a half later roughly I opened up Dr. Robert H. Zoellner and Associates PC.

Clay: I’ve heard about that, by the mall.

Dr. Zoellner: My first place was at 31st in Harvard.

Clay: Which was by the mall.

Dr. Zoellner: Which is by a mall.

Clay: Somebody fact check this. Anyway, the thing is if you’re listening right now, you’ve ever wanted to raise money, buy a business or sell a business, you definitely want to come back. Because the guy we have on the show is like your broda. There’s Yoda, but he’s too beautiful to be Yoda. He is like your broda. He knows how to raise money, buy businesses and sell businesses.

When we come back, he has a four-step process that he’s going to walk us through very detailed. You and I are going to be interrogating him non-stop and I’m just telling you, the four steps you don’t want to miss out, Z.

Dr. Zoellner: Hey, he mentioned earlier that he’s helped fund raise over a hundred million dollars. Did you bring that with you today?

Jared Palweka: Only on my debit card.

Clay: Oh, wow, that’s very generous.

Jared: We don’t carry cash.

Dr. Zoellner: I saw a big bag that was carrying out the– probably that’s 100 million dollars.

Clay: He’s probably brought the 100 million dollars with him.

Dr. Zoellner: Probably did just to show us on Facebook live that he has it.

Clay: Now, Thrivers, when we come back, if you’ve ever wanted to raise money, raise capital, sell a business, you want to stay tuned. Thrive time show.


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Announcer: Live, local, now you’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Bada bing, bada boom, we are in your room. My name is Clay Clark. I’m the co-host with the mo-host of the Thrive Time Show. You’re listening to the audio Dojo of Mojo where we provide you more information per show than any other business show on the planet. In fact, Dr. Robert Zoellner, we are Tulsa’s number one local business radio show. This is just in, sir, how are you?

Dr. Zoellner: This is just in. We are broadcasting from the Left Coast of the Arkansas River which is a very exciting place to be, by the way.

Clay: Beautiful place to be.

Dr. Zoellner: It’s like beachfront property. I mean, the sand, the volleyball games out there currently on the day, day by day.

Clay: I tell you on a day like this with the weather this cold, people are out there- they’re still out there playing volleyball. We can’t see them physically but we’ve heard rumors of them being out there.

Dr. Zoellner: We’ve heard rumors of them that’s for sure. I tell you what? You’re right, we are rated the number one local business talk show in Tulsa Oklahoma.

Clay: Number one in Tulsa Oklahoma.

Dr. Zoellner: Ooh-ooh, I’m applaud to that.

Clay: Oh, wow. That’s nice.

Dr. Zoellner: But you know what?

Clay: What?

Dr. Zoellner: I think we’re the only.

Clay: See, always bring the room down. We had just started to feel good, you are telling me about the number, I’m feeling good.

Dr. Zoellner: I’m sorry, I had to use true facts. I tell you what, the rest of the show I’ll try– well, no I got it. We owe it to our thrivers. We have to bring them facts, we have to bring them action steps that they can do, and we have to help coach them up. Because you know what? We’re going to wipe out this 80% failure rate in entrepreneurship.

Clay: According to Forbes, 80% of businesses fail and that’s going to stop right now because we have a super guest on the show, Mr. Jared Pawelka. He is going to teach us how to find capital or how to sell your business now. Now, Jared, let’s get into these four-step process. Step number one you said is stick to your role. What does that mean, my friend?

Jared: Yes, we love to use acronyms, SHOW. Whether you’re raising capital or selling your business, SHOW, think about SHOW. The first in that is S, stick to your role.

Clay: Stick to your role.

Dr. Zoellner: What does that mean?

Jared: It’s simpler than business owners make it, management teams make it. You got to stick to your knitting. If you’re on a baseball team, you’re going to play your position. It’s a little counterintuitive for a lot of guys trying to raise capital or sell their business. You got to run the business.

Clay: If you’re Ray Charles you got to this sing this song. Can we get that song, is that going to go? Is Ray not going to play right now. Z, is that Ray? Oh, the Ray Charles button is dead, I can’t believe that. I tell you what? I’m not going to stand this, Z. Thrivers, you bear with me, I have the perfect Ray Charles song. [music] There it is, there it is.

Dr. Zoellner: As always.

Clay: You always save the day.

Dr. Zoellner: I got you, Clay.

Clay: If you’re Ray Charles you got to sing that song. If you’re a business owner listening right now, though, this is what I see, Jared, you tell me if you see this a lot. I see business owners who, they’re really good at coaching basketball, they may be very good at selling commercial real estate. They’re very good at baking cakes, They are very good at cutting hair, whatever. They get all distracted, they spend all of their time trying to raise money and then their Core Business falls apart. Is that what you’re talking about?

Jared: It’s all too common. You find people that are great at what they do and that’s the problem. They get away from what it is they’re good at.

Clay: Mark Cuban. Somebody go, “Who is Mark Cuban?” Oh, by the way before he became a billionaire, he did become a millionaire. That’s obvious. He had one business that did very well and then he had another business that did very well and he sold that business and he became a billionaire.

He also owns the Dallas Mavericks but he says this, “Know your core competencies and focus on being great at them.” So, thrivers, there is an action item right now. What are you great at? What are you not great at? Z, you’ve seen this all the time. You see people who are clearly not good at one aspect of the business, will call it maybe sales or marketing and they continue. Maybe they are a great dentist but they’re just their marketing. Their marketing is terrible-

Dr. Zoellner: Painful.

Clay: – but you see them continue to just go, “I made all my print pieces myself. My wife and I, we did our own website. We made our own print pieces. In fact, I shot that video on my cell phone. What’s wrong with you, I do it myself.” Then you realize, well, broke down. Z, why do people get that wrong from your perspective?

Dr. Zoellner: They get it wrong because they don’t know what they don’t know and they’re not honest with themselves. That’s one of the most difficult things, because what happens is that if you find success in certain areas of life you just assume you know everything that you’re doing is successful. That’s why sometimes just like at if you email us and send us the link to your website we’ll do a 37-point analysis of your website. [chuckles] “I built my website myself and it’s really awesome.” Well is it? We can help– there are experts out there that can look at what you’re doing, seriously and they could say, “Hey okay, a little constructive criticism, I hope you don’t take this wrong.”

Clay: One thing about Schmitskey’s optometry, as I built my website with my bare hands. I did it myself.


I’m Oswald. I made the bagels and I built my website.

Dr. Zoellner: I make all the bagels and it’s just me and every day, it’s a bagel [crosstalk].

Clay: Alright, Jared smarty-pants. Jared, when people call you– By the way, where can they find information about you? what’s the name of your website my friend?

Jared: You got to get to, that’s

Announcer: You are listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Z, you said you don’t know what you don’t know. How many times do you help a business, Jared? You sit down with them and you help them discover a blind spot. You’re going just through the process of discovering and getting to learn more about their business where you discover, “You guys have a horrible website. You guys are really awful at this area.” They thought they were awesome at.

Jared: I’d say plan on it, every single time. Embrace that. That’s fine. That’s what we come to expect.

Clay: You come in there and offer an honest candid third-party perspective.

Jared: Absolutely, and the best thing is I’m leaving soon. So we’re going to be candid, we’re going to be brutally honest with each other. We’ll do some work and I’m out of there.

Clay: Do you charge people for this review or you just hang out for free? Are you part of the government or is this a thing that you–? What does it cost to have somebody come in and explore the innards of their business and to see if it’s ready to be sold or to be purchased or to raise capital? what does it cost to get going?

Jared: Nominal fee. It’s easily $500 just to get going.

Clay: 500 bucks to get going?

Jared: Yes.

Clay: You’ll help them to get a transparent light onto the business and to figure out what they’re doing well and what they’re doing wrong?

Jared: Absolutely, we’re there to shed light and move quick. We don’t want to spend any more time than you do.

Clay: Back to Mark Cuban, He says, “know your core competencies and focus on being great at them.” Pay up, here we go, pay up, pay up, pay up for people in your core competencies. Get the best, outside the core competencies, hire people that fit your culture but aren’t as expensive to pay.

Okay, Z why would you recommend for any business owner listening right now, why would recommend they higher somebody like a Jared or somebody who knows how to raise capital to do it for you rather than diverting your attention to become an expert in everything. why would you recommend using– you don’t do your own legal work, you hire an attorney. Why would you recommend paying for an expert?

Dr. Zoellner: I love what he said, “stick to your role.” You keep doing what you do and that is, if you’re a dentist, you’re cleaning teeth, you’re fixing cavities, you’re doing the orthodontics, whatever it is that you’re doing, you stick to what you’re doing. Let a professional come in and help you with that. Main reason why businesses fail which we’re going to change on this show. We know already, 80% is un acceptable.

A lot of them fail because they’re undercapitalized. They don’t have enough capital. So they get a cash flow, slow down or they get a problem or they get a little bump, all of a sudden they get a new insurance plan that doesn’t pay them out for so many days. It is a problem. All of a sudden they’re like, “oh my gosh.” Panic, panic sets in. Panic mode, panic mode.

Clay: Now Thrivers, if you are listening right now, there is an action step I want you to take right now. I want you to get out a sheet of paper and I want you to rate your business on a scale of 1 to 10 on these four areas; Sales, accounting, customer service, capital. Go ahead and rate yourselves on a scale of 1 to 10 on those four areas. When we come back, we are going to teach you how to raise that capital that you need.


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Announcer: [music] You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: All right thrive nation, welcome back to your inspirations station, welcome back to the audio Dojo of Mojo and welcome back to the show that’s all about you. This show is all about you, helping you start a successful business. Helping you grow a successful business. Today specifically, we’re teaching you how to find capital or how to sell your business. Z, why would Dr. Zoellner, why would anybody ever want to find capital or sell a business?

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] Well, capital to help grow a business, okay. Then to sell business because you’ve grown it to the point, now you’re, “okay am going to sell it, am going to post profit off, then am going to go to the next stage of my life, which could be retirement, could be a beachfront condo in Port Aransas Texas–

Clay: Am going to leave with my mother on her couch now that I’ve sold my food truck for $17 to my friend Troy.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, of course, Troy is going to take it and blow it up. But the thing about this is that it’s options. Anytime you’re building something, anytime you’re growing your business, you’ve always got to be thinking about that. I had someone the other day came up to me and said, “hey, do you want to sell this business?” I was like, “not really but you know.” Then a month later, “hey do you want to sell that business.” I was kind of crazy like three months later, the third person, do you want to sell that business?

You know what, I better get my head wrapped around a price on it because everything in life is for sale.

Clay: Wait a minute, you just said-

Recording: You can’t handle the truth.

Clay: -you just said something powerful. You just said every business has a price, everything has a price. Eventually, somebody could buy any of your business?

Dr. Zoellner: Yes of course. They bring a sack full of cash and everything has a price tag on it, for sure.

Clay: I thought you were a man of principal.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] I mean everything’s– there’s very few things in my life that aren’t for sale and businesses are for sale. Buildings are for sale. Everything is for sale.


Clay: Thrivers, listen seriously we have a special today, Mr. Jared Pawelka. Jared, for anybody who’s listening who has no idea who you are, could you explain to America, what is it that you do and how do you help business owners?

Jared: We primarily work with manufacturing distribution service companies to raise capital to sell the businesses or buy another business. Sometimes you are buying part of the business, sometimes are selling some of the business, all of the business. We’re helping people at the intersection of growth and change.

Clay: Do you have a website? Where can people find out more information?

Jared: Absolutely, go to

Clay: All right,

Dr. Zoellner: I like that by the way, about intersection of growth and change. That’s powerful.

Clay: Are you running for office?


I’d vote for him. I tell you what, if you’re on Facebook right now, this is what you going to see.


I mean just beauty, it looks like a pageant, a man pageant.

Dr. Zoellner: Who worn those buttons tonight, it’ impressive.

Clay: It’s impressive, yes.

Dr. Zoellner: Are you trying to set a record on button knowledge?

Clay: No, but I go 14 more. Okay, am just kidding.


Clay: Principle number one is stick to your role. what does that mean Jared?

Jared: You got to play your position. If you are running the business, stick to the business. Stick to running it. You want someone else who’s going to come in there, understand the business for the purpose of helping you raise capital or sell the business. Their job is to understand what you do and then communicate that to the market.

Clay: Why should I let an investment banker interview my team and interrogate me? Why is that not a complete waste of my time?

Jared: Because you’ll sleep at night. You will lay in bed and if indeed they have gained your confidence, you will be able to sleep at night, run the business. Statistically, that year where you’re selling the business, statistically performance falls off. That’s why we’re really after prevent against managers getting out of there lane.

Clay: You saying that when we get to the point when we are ready to sell the business, statistically across the board performance will fall off, the business will struggle when the owner is trying to sell it?

Jared: Just plan on it. It’s something we need to fight against but absolutely, it’s known in the industry the performance tends to fall off in that year.

Clay: I am going to ask you some rude questions, you ready?

Jared: You bet.

Clay: None of them are about our religion, we don’t really get into politics on the show too much. Those are off but am going to ask you some rough ones here. I’m listening right now and I’m like listen buddy, I built my landscaping business into $4 million business, why do I need you to help me sell my business. I am going to sell my own business. I don’t need you. My core competency is awesome, that’s what I do. I am just awesome. Am just me being me. Am kind of a big deal.

I built my multi-million

plumbing and I’d do it all. I’ve been to plumbing company. I’ve been to mowing company. I’d do them all. It’s the phone. I’d do all the accounting. I’d do all the sales. I’d do all the organizing. They’re big businesses, I work 80 hours a week, baby. I don’t need you. I work 80 hours. Let me repeat, I wake up at 3 AM, and I work ’till 9 PM every single night. I don’t need you. I’ve built the business completely predicated on me and my effort. I’m the man. I’m on top of Mt. Awesome. Why do I need you?

Jared: Well, first of all, let me tell you, I want to work with you because I like those kinds of guys. Our team wants to work with guys that are business owners who have built things with their own two hands. You work with us because we’re going to amplify your message. Plain and simple. We will communicate the value that your business presents to the market. That’s why you work with us.

Clay: Okay, now, specifically, if somebody does hire you, okay? They reach out to you. Walk me through a story, a kind of a story, an example, a kind of what that would look like.

Jared: Sure. It’s very clear people come to us, they say, “I’m ready to sell the business”. We’ve got to slow them down. We say, “Slow down, so you can speed up.” You slow down to really build the– to uncover what we would call value drivers in the business. Uncover what makes your business great. That’s a —

Clay: Me, I’m awesome.

Jared: That’s a real exercise.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughter]

Jared: Right.

Clay: That’s going to be a lot of business owners that do those, don’t they? Don’t they say that? “I’m awesome, that’s what makes me– “

Dr. Zoellner: That’s what makes me, my business awesome.

Clay: How often when you sit down with someone does this happen?

Jared: I would say 99% of the time.

Clay: And it gets, and you realize the businesses completely dependent upon the owner.

Jared: It often is that way. But, most of the time, we sit down and there’s some work to do.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: I have a story I’d like to share at this point. I have a story. Z, are you ready for the story? Emotionally ready–?

Dr. Zoellner: I think I’m emotionally ready. I don’t know.

Clay: Okay. Here we go. Back in the day, I was working with a small business owner that reached out for me. Reached out to me for coaching. The business owner– [coughs] I’m getting emotional. Getting all emotional.

Dr. Zoellner: It happens. That happens.

Clay: Okay, here we go. The business owner says to me, “I want coaching.” And they do enough to realize they were captain about two million dollars a year of sales. So I said, “Okay, cool. Here’s how it works, though. You need to come to our offices at world headquarters, back in the day, it was the make your life epic office.

They came to the office and I said, “I am going to sit down with you for an hour and I’m going to run through a 13 point analysis of the proven the business system that you and I have, the 13 point system and I’m going to through this with you and then we’re going to determine your biggest limiting factors and the things you need to improve upon to scale the company, where you’re stuck.”

The guy goes, “Well, I’ll tell you what, I work from 3 AM, 4 AM to 9 PM. I never know, man. I’m just some –“, and he’s got a multi-million dollar business. He’s like, “I answer the phone, man. I do customer service. Everyday is different, man. I can’t block out time for it.” I would go, “You can’t block out an hour once a week, not even one hour to meet, to potentially double.” “Man, I’ll tell you what, man, I’d do it every day myself, man. I fix everything. I do maintain everything. I do it all myself.” I saw that, I’m going, “You don’t have a business, baby. You have a job.”

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, a job.

Clay: I didn’t say, “baby”. It didn’t get weird. I’d say, “You don’t have a job– You don’t have a business, baby.”

Dr. Zoellner: You said “baby”.

Clay: No. I said, “You don’t have a business.”

Dr. Zoellner: You boxed it Rox. This is a safe spot.

Clay: When I did say “baby”, this is what he said, “What? You’re saying it weird. Saying what. Oh no. All of it.”

Dr. Zoellner: You are like the batman in that. You can’t stand it. I love it.

Clay: Yes, I know. But, seriously, when I said, “You didn’t build a business. You built a job.” I’m serious. It was like a thing where the light bulb went off for him. He’s going, “That’s so true.” And he goes, “How many hours a week do you work in your business?” And I said, “Like an hour.” He couldn’t believe that. He said, “Are you kidding me? You work an hour a week at the DJ company?” “Yes. DJ. Sell anything, I don’t, really. I just built the system that I hold people accountable. The system, it took me hundreds of hours to build those things. Z, how many patients do you typically see now at the uptown Tree Clubbing?

Dr. Zoellner: Myself?

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: That would be zero.

Clay: What?

Dr. Zoellner: But the thing about it is that everybody looks at you working one hour. Where’d your business go? I want to be an entrepreneur. I can work an hour a week. I can do this.


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Announcer: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Alright, Thrive Nation, welcome back to the Thrive Time Show. And, I’m telling you today has me pumped and has me excited. We’re teaching you how to raise capital and how to sell a business, how to buy a business. We’re getting into that brass, tax. Some of that detailed stuff where once you built a business to a certain point, trying to buy another business. It’s something you do. Trying to sell a business is something you do. Trying to get capitals. Something you’re trying to do. On this show today, we have Jared Pawelka. He’s done it. He’s literally helped. Did you say you raised a hundred million dollars?

Jared: We’ve helped put together over a hundred million, yes.

Clay: What does that mean when you say put together a hundred million? What does that mean?

Jared: From the lending standpoint, from the investing standpoint, both from banks and private investors, private equity. We’ve seen it from a lot of different angles, helped businesses capitalize over a hundred million.

Clay: That is nuts. In Dr. Roberts Zoellner, I’ll tell you what, a guy who knows something. He’s probably seen a hundred million patients and is up top of his clinic, probably. Not to exaggerate. He’s probably seen like two hundred million.

Dr. Zoellner: Exactly. We don’t exaggerate on the Thrive Time Show.

Clay: We never exaggerate. But, I’ve seen four hundred million patients this morning. He’s a big deal. He’s a boom. He’s a doctor from Arizona. Dr. Robert Zoellner, Boom.

Dr. Zoellner: I tell you what, it’s Wednesday.

Clay: Hoop day!

Dr. Zoellner: It’s Thrive Time Day and you’re at lunch right now. You’re thinking about I’m doing lunch right now.

Clay: I’m so hungry.

Dr. Zoellner: I want to suggest something to you. If you’re sitting there in your car, you got the radio on, you’re sitting there thinking to yourself, “I’m hungry and I need some food. I need sustenance.”


Clay: Where do I go.

Dr. Zoellner: “I’ve got to have something-

Clay: Where do I go?

Dr. Zoellner: -to eat.” Over lunch.

Clay: Billy, where should we go?

Dr. Zoellner: I’m going to make a suggestion. It is a fabulously, wonderful suggestion. If you go there and you do these moves you will email me and say, “Thank you, Dr. Z”

Clay: It’s going to be huge.

Dr. Zoellner: And I’m just going to preemptively give you your welcome right now.

Clay: You’re welcome.

Dr. Zoellner: Go to Oklahoma Joe’s.

Clay: True that.

Dr. Zoellner: They’ve got one on Broken Arrow, they’re by the Bath Pro shop.

Clay: Yes. I’ve practically live there now.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs] They’ve got one on 61st Sheraton. And for downtown, they’re still open Monday to Friday next to the Cane’s Ballroom there. From 11 to 2, I believe. You can go in and listen. Here’s my personal move and you could try something else, but this is my personal move.

Clay: But, you’d be wrong, probably.

Dr. Zoellner: Well, maybe. You can’t be wrong.

Clay: Okay. Sure.

Dr. Zoellner: You get the Burn-In’s and the Baked Beans. And, I’m telling you what, it’s a game changer.

Clay: This is how it makes me feel every time I go in there. [music] I feel like the German-American festival inside of Oklahoma Joe’s.

Dr. Zoellner: I’d do that, but I’d burst every some time.

Clay: Oh man. Now, Thrivers, here’s the deal. Before we get into how to raise some capital, before we get back in the batten, how to sell your business, and buy a business. One thing we need to talk about, it’s holiday business timesing.

Dr. Zoellner: It is. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Clay: I have a confession to make. And, Vanessa, if you’re listening, that’s my wife. If you’re listening to the show right now, I do not want Arby to hear this. Turn it down, do not let him hear this. My wife listens a lot when she’s driving around, okay? Here’s the dealsy. My son, he wants to mow. He wants to start a landscaping business. He’s not old enough to do it and we worked with Royal Landscaping, they’re a great client. We love working with them, helping them with their marketing. Royal landscaping listening to right now. I’m not going to compete with you, I promise. But, my son, he’s decided he wants to start a company. He came up with the idea. He’s calling it Mow Town.

Dr. Zoellner: Mow Town?

Clay: It’s his deal. Mow Town is his idea. He says to me, “Listen, I want to buy a 48 inch Husqvarna Riding Lawn Mower.” He’s nine. And, you’ve seen him. This guy is raking everyone-

Dr. Zoellner: I know. I know. I know. He’s got a great move. He’s going to be the next big deal.

Clay: He goes to the next door neighbor and he asks, “Can I rake your lawn for free?” He rakes all the leaves for free. She pays him $17.

Dr. Zoellner: [exhales]

Clay: Oh my gosh. He’s saving up all his money. He does all the cleaning here in the office. He’s our janitor up here in the office. We home-school our kids. That guy takes his money he saved up, and he went into at Woodsy and bought a leaf blower with his own cash.

Dr. Zoellner: Way to go.

Clay: He’s nine years old. The guys are like, “You’re kidding me?” He whips out the cash. [sound effect]

Dr. Zoellner: Whoosh out the cash.

Clay: He wants his 48 inch Husqvarna Riding Mower. And, I’ve told him, I said, “Listen, It’s not going

to happen. You do not have the money and that’s given him certain goals and he missed the goal barely as it’s not going to happen. It’s not going to.

Dr. Zoellner: Wait. How much will something like that cost?

Clay: Say $200, $300.

Dr. Zoellner: I might invest. I might– He might be a little cap on my mail.

Clay: Here’s the deal.

Dr. Zoellner: You never know.

Clay: “Vanessa do not let him listen to this part of the show.”

Dr. Zoellner: “I’ll be listening. Call me. Call me Abby, call me. Call me. I believe in you.”

Clay: I just bought it for him.

Dr. Zoellner: Oh ho. Awesome.

Clay: Yes. Here’s the deal is that Christmas eve, I’m wrapping a box and putting a lump of coal in the box. I’m not carrying that far. The little guy is so mad. He’s like, “I know he’s going to get it. I’ve been saving up.” I’m like, “It’s not going to happen. Santa is not coming this year. I guarantee he’s not coming because your [inaudible 00:40:39].

Dr. Zoellner: You can’t even carry a Husqvarna. Husqvarna, is that what you’re saying?

Clay: Husqvarna and he knows my — My son knows the model number. I’m telling you what, Christmas Eve, Sam the man, one of our executive producer here, he is going to be unveiling this. A Christmas Eve. He’ll open up a box with the coal in it. He’s going to start to cry little man tears, and I’m going to go, “I guess it’s all Santa wanted you to have.” Then, brrrr brrr coming out of nowhere. Sam, the man’s going to break, be pulling up with a ribbon on it, and it’s going to be the most epic 9-year-old Christmas ever.

Dr. Zoellner: Oh my gosh. You’ve got to film that.

Clay: I’ll do it. I want to do it. I want to film.

Dr. Zoellner: Put a ribbon on mine mower.

Clay: Thrivers, I’m telling you as a business coach, if you want to see this video, we’re going be putting it up on Facebook when that happens, get emotionally ready. Speaking of getting emotionally ready, if you’re going to be out there and selling a business or buying a business, you’ve got to focus on running the core business. You cannot get distracted.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Thrive Time show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Gerry Block, give me an action item right here. Walk me through. What’s your principle, your show principle? What’s what’s principle number one and what do I need to do?

Jared: Principle number one is, stick to your knitting. Stay in your role. The action item is you’ve got to e-mail me.

Clay: How can I email you? If I want to email you, do I have to do, Do I have to get on my computer? Do I call you? What’s your website? How do I get hold of you?

Jared: You can get– You can reach us at

Clay: midamericacg– what was it again now?


Clay: If I do that, my schedule or consultation, are you going to– I’d have to pay before I even know if you’re real.

Jared: No.

Clay: It’s like a free consultation kind of thing or you are– Is it a high-pressure? You could pull me. “My name is Jared Pawelka. I’m here to help you raise capital.”

Dr. Zoellner: “How could I make you do. You can refuse. You see?”

Clay: A thousand dollars, you get out of here alive.

Dr. Zoellner: “You’re keeping a lot of money and I tell you some stuff.”

Jared: In fact, this is what I want you to do. I want you to send me an e-mail. Don’t go to the website first. Send me this e-mail. This is no obligation. Here’s the email: [email protected].

Clay: One more time. One more time. I was doodling. I was trying to figure out, “Where do I put these remaining back beads? It’s like gold–“

Jared: Pull over, pull over and remain still. [email protected].

Clay: If I send that e-mail, what’s the next thing that will happen?

Jared: It’s got to have the subject line ‘Why I don’t have a CEO– CFO– Why I don’t have a CFO.” You’re going to get two things.

Clay: What I’m I going to get?

Jared: I’m going to reply with my son’s favorite clever joke, which is really why you’re going to e-mail me. Additionally, I’m going to send you a link to practical resources to help you understand an opportunity you may be missing.

Clay: This is something you’re going to do, you’re going help people out here?

Jared: You bet.

Clay: Okay. Jerry, moving on to principle number two. Principle number two which is horn your business. Do you pronounce that as horn, or do you say hone, or is it– Z, how would you say that? Horny, horn?

Dr. Zoellner: The H maybe silent. Maybe just Orny. It could be a silent H. I don’t know, you said that.

Clay: Horn your business? What are you talking about?

Jared: However the Japanese pronounce it because ‘you’re horny’, like a sharp samurai sword.

Dr. Zoellner: Ooh, Alah ooh.

Clay: So nice.

Dr. Zoellner: So nice. Where do you get a samurai sword? That’s some swag when you get it in a box of rocks.

Clay: I don’t feel like with my temperament I would be allowed to have a samurai sword.

Dr. Zoellner: I brought it over on my side of the room. Don’t get me wrong. I bet which you better reach it. You touch it on the shaft.

Clay: “He shouldn’t be near the samurai sword.” What do you mean when you say horn your business?

Jared: There is basic principles that get overlooked. You’ve got to work on a business’s valuable. Horn that business.

Clay: Horn that business.

Jared: When you want to sell something, you’re trying to create something that’s valuable first. That’s the first step that a lot of times people miss. You’ve got to create something that’s valuable. Horn that business, systems, things that make the business run without you because eventually if you’re going to sell it and the whole business is dependent on you or your management team, what happens when you go out?

Clay: I want to break down those two things you said. One, horn your business. Z, I want to give you an example how I horned the– There’s a word I’m thinking of and I can’t say it on a radio, but I horned the [beeps] out of my business. I horned the [beeps], I went [beeps] and I went [beeps] out of my business. DJ connection I’m sitting down with brides, booking out their weddings, it was a capital, entertainment for weddings taking your event from ordinary to extraordinary. 4000 events per year. Check it up. I’m sitting down. I’m talking to the bride. I said, “Is there anything else you need for the wedding?” and the bride says, “Yes, do you have a recommendation for a party with no company?” I go, “Yes. I do know about- I don’t know – 4000 times.” Eventually, it occurs to me, “Why am I recommending somebody else for the dance floor every time. It’s a dance floor rental. Can I afford to buy dance floors? Yes. Could we train someone how to set it up? Yes.”

Dr. Zoellner: Oh no, that’s impossible.

Clay: Why? Why– why not do this? “I’ve never done it before. I’m not a party with no company. I’m a deejay.” By horning the systems, over time I trained my guys, a system called HRI – Help, Recommend, Inform. I repeat; Help, Recommend, Inform. After you take the deposit, after you book the wedding, the guys would say, “There’s something else I could help you with?” Then you go, “No, I’m fine.”

“Do you need any recommendations?” “Yes, I am. I’m needing a recommendation for party rentals, for a florist.” Here’s the deal, “I know of a great party rental company. It’s our sister company. It’s called Party perfect. What else do you need? “I need a photographer.” I know of a great photographer. Our sister company Epic Photos. We went from like, check it out, a multi-million dollar company to mega multi-million dollar company just by honing the systems.


Dr. Zoellner: I like to refer to that as vertical integration.

Clay: Vertical integration?

Dr. Zoellner: It’s business that is right there on your plate and you could shove it to the side like you might do your least favorite vegetable. You’d shove all that stuff off the side of your plate. It’s already there. It’s like a fish jumping in a boat. You are like aaahh, throw it back in the water. Or like, “Hey. Hey buddy over here on the bank. You want this fish because I don’t want it.”

Clay: Yes, and Thrivers listen up here, you’re going to be learning more about vertical integration when we come back.


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Announcer: Broadcasting from the center of the universe, featuring optometrist-turned-entrepreneur, Dr. Robert Zoellner, and US SBA entrepreneur of the year, Clay Clark, this is the Thrive Time show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: All right Thrive Nation. Welcome back to the Thrive Time show where we are broadcasting from the West Coast of the Arkansas River in beautiful jinks America, inside the World Headquarters and within The Box that Rocks. My name is Clay Clark. I’m the former SBA Entrepreneur of the year. I have five human kids and I am your pale male, sent here to entertain you, to educate you, and to harass Dr. Robert Zoellner who may be one of Tulsa’s top business minds.


My job is to mine the information out of his mind. A mine of the mind.

Dr. Zoellner: To extract it everyday from 12 to 2 here on Talk Radio 1170. We’re glad you tuned in and what you’re going to get- You know what you’re going to get from the show?

Clay: What are you going to get?

Dr. Zoellner: You’re going to get practical business tips because Forbes, which is kind of a big deal, Forbes says that 57% of the [inaudible 00:48:50]. I think could be higher, I’m just going to say.

Clay: I definitely think so.

Dr. Zoellner: -because Tulsa is the number one city for entrepreneurship. If you’re listening inside Tulsa, it’s in the water you’re drinking. It’s in the air you’re breathing. It’s in the river that’s flowing down the left side of Tulsa County and that is entrepreneurship. 57% of you out there want to start a business and you’re saying, “How do I do that?” You do it with either mistakes or mentors. Clay and I, total of all the mistakes we’ve made, and all the mentoring we’ve done, and all the mentoring that’s been done to us, we’re going to share that for two hours a day, while you’re having your lunch.

Clay: At Oklahoma Joe’s. It could be at Oklahoma Joe’s and probably it’s in Oklahoma Joe’s. You’re probably– if you’re not at Oklahoma Joe’s right now for lunch, you’re probably on your way to Oklahoma Joe’s. Mentally you’ve already–

Dr. Zoellner: Had your thought to yourself, “I knew I should have Oklahoma Joe’s this egg salad sandwich.”

Clay: Yes, put the egg salad sandwich back. Put it in the fridge. Have it in a month or two. Go to Oklahoma Joe’s right now.


Seriously, we have a very special guest on the show. We have a very special guest. I’ll tell you what, all times we call guests and we go, “Hey, we’d like you to be a guest.” I hope it’s like proposing over and over Z. It’s like that fear–

Dr. Zoellner: It’s like ask him to the prom time and time again.

Clay: You just sit in the– the thing is it gets weird when you proposed and then someone says, “No”. The relationship is never the same.

Dr. Zoellner: It’s never the same.

Clay: “Sarah, I thought we could–“, she says, “We can still be friends.” That’s code for “We’re never speaking again on any circumstances.”

Dr. Zoellner: We’re never speaking again. Yes, deep fried on first part.

Clay: You wanted to hurt sprouts. You wanted to hurt sprouts or she won’t make eye contacts. There’s difference beyond on Facebook. It’s a bad deal Z.

Dr. Zoellner: It’s a very bad deal but what we love to do here in the Thrive Time Show is get local successful business dudes and dudettes, and have them come in, share their story, share their expertise because that’s what we do because I’m not an expert at capital raise. Are you an expert Clay at capital raise?

Clay: No. I’ll tell you this, I get down on bended knee like Boyz II Men back in the day, I got that down on bended knee and I’m like “Jared Pawelka, were you, will you be on it?” and he said, “What setting?”, would you– I’m in like, cameras ready, and I got them on my knee, and I didn’t give a ring because that be super weird bro.

Dr. Zoellner: Look at him drown like filming from the bottom.

Clay: Actually, I do give him a ring, I called him. And I said “Could you be on the show?” I get down on my knee and I gave him a ring and he goes “Okay, I’ll do it”, and I’m like, [laughs] I won a super bowl. It’s Jared Pawelka. I don’t know that I cried, it was more of my eyes– secreting weakness.

Dr. Zoellner: Could be allergies. I know a time of year you–

Clay: Jared Pawelka, you’re here to help– taught us today how to raise capital, how to sell a business, how to buy a business, and the first step, can you review what step number one is. What was the S of the SHOW, the SHOW acronym here.

Jared: Absolutely, it is “stick to your position.”

Clay: What is that mean?

Jared: Stick to your role. If you’re the CEO, be the CEO. If you’re the sales guy, be the sales guy. If you’re the CFO, which is the position we love, be the CFO.

Clay: But if you need help, raising capital, you let guys like you do that for you, and you focus on running the core business to what you’re saying.

Jared: Absolutely. What I’m saying is there’s a lot of stuff that’s involve that you don’t want to do. And you don’t know that but we do. We’re going to do that for you.

Clay: Now step two is “Hone your business”, and you said you have to build a systems that can work without you, repeatable systems, and you talk about honing the business, putting repeatable systems. Dr. Zoellner, talk to me about this because you see, you’re optometry clinical, see thousands of patients on a given week, but you personally dealt looked at the human eyeball and recommend frames and analyze retinas, you don’t do it anymore.

Dr. Zoellner: Well if you have a round face, we can go to the round frame and the coloring on your face would suggest particularly a brown color and–

Clay: I don’t want to tell you this Ms. Smith but I’m going to drop a knowledge bomb. You’ll have– what you call an ovular face.

Dr. Zoellner: [laugh] Ovular face.

Clay: It’s a face that’s like an ovule by used it with ovular. Its more syllables but–

Dr. Zoellner: It’s more syllables that I can charge more for the frame then. That’s the way it works in this industry. No. The thing about honing is I like to think it was kind of fine tuning. It’s extracting profit out of it because here’s the bottom line, a business is worth where the business can make ultimately.

Clay: Come on now, repeat that one more time.

Dr. Zoellner: A business is worth where the business can make. By honing it, by fine tuning it, by cutting some fat out, by giving your systems a little tighter, and I love Clay before this last break, you talked about, you brought up a term, I did a vertical integration, in other words, find out the easy, you have the easy the low hanging fruit. It’s just walking in your business begging you to take it. I mean, hear you are with all this brides. You’re selling Djs and then you’re giving away out to the business. Hey we need to rent a dance floor. Oh yes I got a guy that knows a guy about that kind of thing. And you’re like–

Clay: Do you know why I didn’t start selling photography earlier?

Dr. Zoellner: I have no– because you are intimidated?

Clay: Yes. I honestly felt– I felt like it would be maybe unethical to up sell somebody something else.

Dr. Zoellner: What’s so fun about that is you have totally, totally gotten over that. That’s why I love that too.

Clay: Yes. Here’s the deal is I was like I didn’t feel like it was unethical move. It’s like a bride would say, “Who do you recommend, I remember this, I remember this story.” I recommended a specific photographer and she called me, it just work, she calls me and she goes “bubu bububup”, I go “Dj connection this is Clay”, and the wedding is starting. As a Dj, you entertain for the reception, I am not Dj of the ceremony. We played music forth but for your daughters wedding, we extra played the music with the ceremony at Golf Club of Oklahoma. [unintelligible 00:54:20] Bridget.

Dr. Zoellner: I remember.

Clay: But I’m not on the mic go “Oh ladies and gentlemen, the brides walking down woohoo woohoo woohoo”. And so I got a call, “I can’t know how to say this, I’m not going to be able to be at the wedding,” and I go, “What Ms. photographer?”, she goes, “I totally forgot I’m out of town,” and I’m going, “Which is I have a tennis tournament.” I go, “No.” She goes, “Yes, could you just tell them that I had an emergency”, I’m like, “No.”

Announcer : You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: The bride comes to me and goes, “Did you know where our photographer is? Do you know where she is? Do you know when she’s arriving. I swear she was supposed to be here like three hours ago.” I don’t make any money on it, and I’m like, “I just talked to her.” That’s what I said. Some of you listening right now are like “You’re a jerk”, this was I said, “I just talked to her and I know she’s not here.

Why don’t you call her”, that’s what I said. Because I didn’t want to say, I didn’t want to throw her to the bus but I didn’t want to be dishonest either. Anyway, the photographer choose me out for telling to the mother of the bride that she was reachable and for not covering for her in the same story. I got yelled at and I didn’t make any money. And I’m going this happen at the world of wedding photography. This would happen about 150-50 weddings. The photographer wouldn’t show up.

Dr. Zoellner: That’s crazy.

Clay: I’m like, “What am I doing?”

Dr. Zoellner: It is and you– that’s why you find the light went off and you said it is ethical, and it is okay. You’re in the line anyway so you might as well, if you’re going to be responsible for it, you might as well won. Make sure it gets done to make some, I’m going to use the P word, profit.

Clay: Come on now.

Dr. Zoellner: Come on. Come on

Clay: Come on. Come on billy.

Dr. Zoellner: It’s good thing as [laugh-. Come on Billy. Billy come on. And then that way you know that the deal gets done.

Clay: Now John Wooden says this Jared, John Wooden is to build the best. He’s arguably, I mean if you’re just, if were looking at number of championships, who looks at the result to judge whether someone’s the best or not. But John Wooden, he won the most championships in the history of NCAA Basketball. And he says this, he was a UCLA coach, he says, “It’s the details that are vital. Little things make big things happen.” I want to go on a little bit of a rant Jared and I want you to help me here. I see business owners all the time and I say to them, I say, So you’re telling me your business is stuck at 400,000 dollars a year.

Jared: Correct.

Clay: You’re calling me for help.

Jared: Correct.

Clay: You want me to teach you how I did it.

Jared: Correct.

Clay: You want me to teach you how I do it.

Jared: Correct.

Clay: You want me to teach you how Dr. Zoellner has done it.

Jared: Correct.

Clay: You want me to teach you to proven system.

Jared: Correct.

Clay: You’ve see the fruit of his business, Dr. Zollner’s businesses. You see the fruit of my businesses. You see his auction. You see our haircut business. You see my photography company. You see his ophthalmetry. You see the fruit of the businesses. You want us to teach you the systems.

Jared: Yes.

Clay: And they– okay. Here’s what you need to do, “I don’t want to do it, I wanted more motivation. I thought it was going to be motivational.” They think business coaching is motivational, it’s not motivational. I hope that you’re sufficiently motivated, I mean, fixing the permalinks on your website and optimizing your website content to get to the top of google, is not an exciting thing. You’re not like, “Oh this is so exciting.”

Dr. Zoellner: This is what I signed-up for.

Clay: But that– but it what makes you money. Launching online ads, it’s not sexy, it’s not exciting but its what works, and Z, I see this all type, people don’t want to focus on the details, they want to focus on the motivation. Jared, help me out. I’m listening right now with my wife and my wife’s going, “That’s him. That’s him, he’s in the car with me, it’s so awkward. He is also motivational but he never writes anything down, he has no systems”, and before we go beat up the husband who has no systems or the wife who has no systems. How common is it for you Jared, when you sit down with the business owner to discover, “Oh oh you have no written systems.”

Jared: I plan on it. The written systems, it’s pretty key, and we talked about it, it sounds easy but practically doing it, its hard to anybody does.

Clay: Making a work flow, that’s a written down process like a script. Does anybody– what percent of the time when you’re with business owner and they not have any scripts for have the answer to inbound phone calls?

Jared: I’m not sure I’ve met someone with the script this year.

Clay: Oh my gosh. What is it the time they not have a check list for opening and closing their business?

Jared: Can’t think of the last time I met someone who did.

Clay: What percent of the time that they have a pro forma?

Jared: That’s good, we’ve got 75 percent of the time.

Clay: What percent of the time that they not have other legal paperwork done correctly?

Jared: Most of the time.

Clay: What percent of the time are– this is normal.

Jared: There is a bright light at the end of the tunnel here right?

Clay: Walk us through. What’s the action of it. What can you do to help us my friend?

Jared: Easily, checklist. We’ve got checklist to get you started. Don’t make it– don’t let another leg go by where you don’t have a checklist. We can send you an email me. Send us a– you call us.

Clay: How do they going to hold you.

Jared: You can email me at [email protected].

Clay: Sorry, I was eating my baked beans Oklahoma Joe’s. Sorry, I wasn’t–

Dr. Zoellner: I misunderstand it.

Clay: Can you repeat that one more time.

Jared: You bet, [email protected]. If you don’t email, you can call us. You want that number?

Clay: You have a phone?

Jared: Yes.

Clay: Weird.

Jared: 844-643-2642.

Clay: Jared, I don’t use websites, I don’t get into the Facebooks, I’m not going to go on to Facebook. I’m not going to Google. I want to use the phone but my wife, she’s all trendy, she wants to use the internets to find things, what website could you find or could she find– I’m not going to go on it but what website could she go to?

Jared: Theoretically if you were going to go to a website, the best website you can go to–

Clay: And I’m not.


Clay: Okay. Now, Dr. Z, I’m going to read you a notable quotable and please unpack it for me my friend.

Dr. Zoellner: Unpack. I’m getting ready to unpack.

Clay: This comes from Eric Ries. This is the guy who’s one of the leading consultants for Kleiner Perkins, who oh by the way funded Uber, oh by the way funded Square, oh by the way funded Google. He says this: “I have learned from both my own successes and failures that those of many others and it’s not the boring stuff that matters.” Let me reread that, “I have learned from both my own successes and failures and those of many others that it’s the boring stuff that matters most. It’s the boring stuff that matters most.” Z, unpack it.

Dr. Zoellner: Well, there’s a lot of things in the category of “boring” in running a business. Just like Jared’s saying, the role that their company loves to play is the CFO.

Clay: Oh man.

Dr. Zoellner: The CFO role. That is, for me, that’s all the boring stuff in there. All the chief financial officer. All the accounting. All the accounts receivable.

Clay: But, it has to get done.

Dr. Zoellner: Paying the bills. I’m like, “ah, do we have to pay bills?”

Jared: Did you know we make it exciting though?

Dr. Zoellner: Well, see that’s what I’m saying. You take something that to me is extremely boring, but yet is the core of the business. It’s very important to the business, the backbone of the business. I’m like, “ah it’s so boring”. And that’s why guys like Jared are so awesome because they come in, they do it, they enjoy it. Their like, “woo-hoo CFO here we go”.

Jared: But we don’t go to a lot of parties.

Dr. Zoellner: Oh, okay.

Clay: When we come back, Jared’s going to walk us through a story about how he helped a business hone their systems.


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Announcer: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on talk radio 1170.

Clay: All right Thrive Nation. Welcome back to the Thrive Time Show. Green country and Okla-homies, welcome back to the Thrive Time Show. This is your audio dojo of mojo fo-sho. My name is Clay Clark and I am a business coach. I’m the former SBA entrepreneur of the year. It’s my job to join you every day, around noon. Specifically 12 to two. Dr. Zoellner I can tell you, I would not be anywhere else in the world right now, anywhere else at all except this is my favorite place to be is helping the people of Tulsa to learn how to start and grow a successful business. This is a passion for you and me. We love doing this.

Dr. Zoellner: We love it. I’ll tell you what, and here in the box that rocks with the great view of our nerve center of Thrive 15 behind us. So if you’re on Facebook Live you can actually see it and we’re waving to you right now–

Clay: There it is.

Dr. Zoellner: Hey Hey, thanks for joining. But, the last two days; today’s Wendesday, but on Monday and Tuesday, I finally go to explain our website.

Clay: Yes.

Dr. Zoellner: If you go to, on the left hand side of the website is Clay and he’s kind of half robotic which he really is. He’s like a robot with human flesh. We’re not sure what planet he came from. He’s like, “bwa ah ah ah [robot noises]”, like a terminator. He’s like a business-inator. He’s the business-nator.

Speaker 1: Why are you guys eating lunch? Why are you guys having fun?

Dr. Zoellner: I will help you build your business, yes. I will help you build your business. On the right hand side is me and I have a pig in front of me. And my friends are going, “Dude, what’s up with the pig?”

Clay: Is that weird midlife crises sort of thing? Most guys buy a motorcycle, you’ve got a pig.

Dr. Zoellner: Most guys get a Harley and you got a pig.

Clay: No hog, you got a pig.

Dr. Zoellner: And so, on Monday and Tuesday if you missed the shows, we talked about the book I’m writing. It’s called Business Pig and all the chapters deal with stories about pigs. They have pigs in them.

Clay: I don’t want to pump you up, but many people have complemented the show and have told me they cant wait to get a copy of your book when it comes out. So, you’re sort of building up some hype and I’m tired of it. I’m tired of it.

Dr. Zoellner: I’m going to be the Amazon pre-order number one list here pretty soon. But, the thing about it is, if you didn’t catch the shows you know what, you’re like “oh I missed it. Oh, I had a lunch thing. I had a Christmas party over lunch. I had a thing”

Clay: I was at Oklahoma Joe’s having unlimited ribs, but I had to pay for them, but they were unlimited.

Dr. Zoellner: Unlimited. Here’s the thing. Go to That’s all together,, and we have all the past shows on there. If you want, you could just go crazy. You could just sit there and listen to show after show after show.

Clay: Until your brain explodes. No Thrivers, we’re talking to you about how to raise capital, how to sell your business, how to buy a business. We brought in a guru. A guy, Mr. Jared Powelka. Jared, for people of the great city of Tulsa Oklahoma who do now know who you are. Could you explain what it is that you do? What is your profession my friend?

Jared: Investment banking and CFO services. We are at the intersection of growth and change in any sort of business. Business inevitably hit a point where they’re going to sell, they want to grow by acquiring another business, they need to capitalize, that’s where we help.

Clay: Now Jared, I asking you this. If I’m listening right now I go, “So you mean if I don’t have a CFO, I can hire you?”.

Jared: Absolutely.

Clay: You do this?

Jared: Yes.

Clay: So, you could help many businesses at the same time be kind of a interim CFO if you were? You could be and interim CFO?

Jared: Yes. Absolutely. And a lot of business like that. The idea that they can turn us on, turn us off as needed.

Clay: I can’t afford to pay a guy $7,000 a month now. I can’t afford to do it. I need a guy who can come in and kind of help me. What does it cost? How can I dip my toe in the water? How much does it cost?

Jared: Easily we can get started with something as simple as $500.

Clay: No way.

Jared: Oh yes.

Clay: Z., this guy, this guy.

Dr. Zoellner: I’ll tell you what, I’m going to make you a deal you can’t refuse.

Clay: $500 is pretty-

Dr. Zoellner: That’s a deal you can’t refuse. I thought I was out of the business now I’m being pulled back in.

Jared: What we always focus on is the benefits though, not the cost.

Clay: Oh, well. Okay. All right, quit doing the mental Jedi stuff.

Dr. Zoellner: Wait, you will let them pass. You will not let them pass.

Clay: I will let them pass. Now Z., here is a quote from Marin Luther King Jr.

Dr. Zoellner: Okay, let it rip, let it rip.

Clay: Martin Luther King Jr. by the way, he’s famous for helping lead the civil rights movement, but many people don’t understand how he did it. Maybe many people don’t take the time to study how he did it.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on talk radio 1170.

Clay: So, if you have not watched the movie Selma I encourage you to watch it. Or, read books about the guy. Here’s the deal. A lot of people don’t know this. This is a true story. Why is it that the media, Dr. Z, why did the media show up when his people, the African-American people who were trying to create equality in the civil rights movement. Why did the media happen to just be there when they were being shot with fire hoses? What was the deal?

Did the medial know? How did they know? I’ll tell you what, you know that Martin Luther King Jr., he actually tapped his own phones. He let people tap his own phones and he intentionally pretended–

Dr. Zoellner: He tipped them off.

Clay: He tipped them off on purpose and he pretended like he wasn’t trying to tip them off. And, so he organized a march across the bridge that they weren’t supposed to know about and the media wasn’t supposed to know about it and then they showed up. Then, all of the sudden the sympathizers from the North realized the atrocities of the South and “bam”. Civil rights movement. Martin Luther King Jr. was a methodical, plotting, detailed dude. He was a genius.

Dr. Zoellner: Gorilla marketing is what he did.

Clay: He says this, “Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is almost a universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.” I would argue Jared, that is what you do. You think. You get in there. You get into the details. You’re a step beyond the motivation. You’re helping people prepare their business to raise capital, or to sell the business, or to buy another business. Walk me through a story of how you’ve done this my friend.

Jared: Well, it’s more than pointing out the steps. It’s more than that. It’s walking people through them. So, we first clarify what the needs are. Talk to a business about what drives the value inside of it. To share a story, we recently signed a client that’s in the engineering and construction business. They came to us wanting to raise capital. So, people think they know what they’re after, but that’s part of how we step in. We clarify, really uncover what the needs are.

Clay: They’re trying to raise money?

Jared: Yes. They thought they were. In the end they started with something totally different.

Clay: So, how do you do that? You sit down with them and you go through their financial goals. I mean, how long does this take? Are you going to pull them into a room without windows and put the one single light like an interrogation room? How long does this take?

Jared: Absolutely not. No. We want to see results as fast or faster than they do. So no. We might spend two weeks intensively really getting to know them, how the business works. Primarily, understand, we’re focused on the financial performance, on marketing, on basic stuff. But, with a view in terms of how do you demonstrate the value in this business.

Clay: See, why is it so painful. For they’re kind of people who– because if you’re an entrepreneur, you’re sort of a certain make-in model, if you’re crazy enough to start your own business and grow at your certain make in model, why is it so hard as a general rule for that personality type to get them to sit down and to look at the numbers and to really analyze where things are going, and do what basically Jared does. Why is it so hard?

Dr. Zoellner: Most entrepreneurs are big picture people. They’ve got the big dream, they’ve got the big goals, and they’re busy creating this over here, and so I love the analysis part over here, the nuts and bolts, you delegate the force and not the trees, most entrepreneurs are that way. Then, they hire the lumberjacks go and then look at the trees. Like Sam, here this film, [unintelligible 01:10:44] they hire the lumberjacks to get in there and analyze each and every tree. “Well, this one they should cut down. This one they shouldn’t.” If they cut this–

Clay: I don’t know if it’s possible, can you film– is it possible to film Sam right now? As people can see, people want to know, who is this guy? He’s–

Dr. Zoellner: Who is this lumberjack?

Clay: Look how beautiful he is? Sam, I don’t know, I know you’re not micd right now, but how much can you shoulder-press? Over your shoulders. At over 300 pounds? Over 310?

Dr. Zoellner: It’s like a redwood tree.

Clay: Over 350?

Dr. Zoellner: He can do an official redwood tree.

Clay: 375?

Sam: Yes.

Clay: You can push over 300 pounds over your shoulders? That’s unbelievable. Sam Parker, beautiful man. When we come back, Jared’s going to walk us through step number three, how to raise capital for your business.

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Announcer: Live. Local. Now. You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Shimmy shimmy ya, shimmy yam, shimmy yay. I’m on themicrophone and my name is Clay. How’re you doing? My name is Clay Clark. I’m the former SBA entrepreneur of the year. I’m known to rhythm all the time. I’m joined here with the man who has built– he had this idea and he says, “I think I want to start an optometry clinic,” and then he goes, “I think what I’m going to do, it’s gone pretty well, I think I’m going to start another business and then I think since that’s going well, I’ll do another one.”

By the way they’re all in different industries. “I’m going to do another one, and another.” And people go, “And another?” and “Another.” And all of a sudden this guy is got– I don’t know, five, six, seven things he is involved in, then people start reaching out to him going, “Could you kind of teach me how to do it?” And he says, “Enough. It’s time to build an online school.” So he has an online school now with me. It’s Dr. Zoellner. Sir, how are you?

Dr. Zoellner: I’m Dr. Z. That’s me. And I’m going to help you see.

Clay: Oh [laughs], 2020.

Dr. Zoellner: 2020 for 25 years.

Clay: 25 years.

Dr. Zoellner: It’s really cool. I had my 20th anniversary on the actual physical date of 11/11/11. That is pretty cool.

Clay: Really.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. 11/11/11 was my 20 year anniversary. So we made this t-shirts, had a big blow out. We had all these radio stations doing the things.

Clay: Live remote?

Dr. Zoellner: Live remotes, and all that good stuff all day long. We had free food cater, a couple of restaurants brought in food. It was a big deal. Eye exams for $20, doing glasses for $20, and we had some t-shirts printed up and said, “2020 for 20 years.” But now we’re 25. 2025 is not as a good vision, so I can’t use that, but -can’t use it. But you’re right. I tell you what, success is wonderful and what success does is it allows people to look at you and say, ”I want you to mentor me.”

And as a guy that loves to do that, and I know you do too Clay, and so you start mentoring young people, younger people maybe older people, it doesn’t really manner, but younger people in business. You start to help-coaching them, cheer them on, give them the systems, give them the steps, and then pretty soon a little thing happens called, you run out of time in the day and you’re like, “I can’t, I can’t.” “Hey, can we do lunch?” “I’m booked. I got my family. I got my kids. I can’t physically do it anymore.”

Clay: Actually, we’ve tried to see our kids. We’ve tried to stay in touch with our kids. We wanted to know our kid’s name.

Dr. Zoellner: I like my kids.

Clay: Well, helping other people who we don’t know to start and grow businesses.

Dr. Zoellner: Right, exactly. When you came to me a couple of years ago with this concept of scaling business coaching, it was beautiful. It was wonderful. I said to myself, “That dog will hunt.”

Clay: And you saw it. You saw the vision, you saw the need. The thing is, I’ll tell you this Thrivers, you’re listening right now and you want to start a business, I call this the thing called, scratch your own niche. When you see a need over and over again because you need it, guess what? a lot of other people need it. That’s solely what our business coaching program is all about at Thrive Where we literally will build your website, we’ll teach you how to build your website and be a business coach for you.

We’ll build your sale system, we’ll teach you about your sale system. We’ll help you fix your accounting, we teach you your accounting.

We teach you all the business systems. It’s literally the same marine elite special forces team that helps Dr. Z and I is helping you offer less money than you would spend per month if you’re going to hire a barista. “A barista?” Yes. No offense to all the baristas out there, but seriously, if you’re going to hire a full-time $10 an hour employee to come help you, we put on a laser show at

We’ll help you. Our business coaching program is legendary, it’s epic, it’s game-changing. But, we have a special guest in the show today, Mr. Jared Pawelka. He is teaching us today how to raise capital. He’s teaching us how to buy a business, how to sell a business. He’s teaching us his magic four-part system called SHOW. S to the H to the O to the W. We’re moving on to the O which is operate as their opportunity. Offer what as whose opportunity.

Jared: Your business.

Clay: Offer your business as an opportunity to who?

Jared: Yes, absolutely. If you’re raising capital, you are offering it as the investor or the lender’s opportunity. That might sound revolutionary, but it’s actually not too far off what you did for many other things.

Clay: People who have more money than time are going, “Hey, wait a minute. I’m trying to find a way to get my money to make money for me.” And potentially investing in a deal could help them make more money without using more of their time.

Jared: Absolutely. If you’ve enjoyed your business, what’s to say somebody else wouldn’t enjoy it as much or more. You got to present it as an opportunity.

Clay: Here’s an example. Years ago if you’re listening right now. he pulls me aside and he says, “Hey. I’ve got this idea.” He say, “I got us an idea.” I said, “For what?” He goes, “A men’s grooming lounge.”

Dr. Zoellner: Grooming. Like–

Clay: Men’s grooming lounge.

Dr. Zoellner: Like total grooming for men?

Clay: Yes. Honestly, this is what I thought. I’m like, “Stupid idea.” That’s what I thought and I really thought that.

Dr. Zoellner: [laughs]

Clay: I love the guy. I love guy, but that, “Stupid idea.”

Dr. Zoellner: Stupid idea.

Clay: At the time, he was living with us at our house, and so I’m going, “Stupid idea.” I said, “Here’s the deal, I don’t know, I just don’t think.” Anyway, one day, he short-tanks me– that’s the phrase you use, short-tanking.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, I love the show because it explains what happens in my life a lot.

Clay: I’m sitting in my living room, and the way I do, when I come home, I turn my phone off, you can’t reach me I’m at home, I’m with my wife. I always try to like hit on my wife, trick my wife, buy her gifts, try to trick her to stay married to me because she’s a wonderful lady. I’m there and he goes, “I’m going to go ahead and give you the experience.” I go, “What experience?” Next thing you know I’m getting a hot towel treatment. I’m getting a straight razor shave. Z, this is at my house.

Dr. Zoellner: Okay. That’s —

Clay: I’m going, “This is kind of bromantic.”

Dr. Zoellner: A little bro– a little.

Clay: Well, it’s kind of weird. When your brother-in-law is giving you sort of a– it feels a little bit like–


Dr. Zoellner: Are you beeping to the button.

Clay: He’s going, “Hey, I want to give you the experience if you know what I mean.” I’m going, “Dude, first of, I am definitely a heterosexual man. I’m definitely married to your sister. Why are you coming in here and giving me a hot towel treatment?” He’s like, “Hey, no seriously, it’s the experience.”Pretty soon I found myself going, “I kind of like it,” but I didn’t say that loud.

Dr. Zoellner: I like men’s grooming.

Clay: Yes, and so I said, I’m like, “Okay, okay. I like it.” In my mind, I’m going, “This is great.” Out loud I’m saying, “Stop touching me.” But inside I’m going, “This is kind of great.” Outside later, see this was happening and it’s kind of an inner struggle going on. Eventually, I said, “Here’s the deal, every dollar that you invest I’ll match it.”

Dr. Zoellner: That’s fair.

Clay: I like that because it’s a skin in the game.

Dr. Zoellner: Skin in the game.

Clay: You want to make sure that entrepreneur that you are investing in is putting some money. Long story short, he comes and works with some of our businesses. Elephant in the Room, before that business, he worked for Epic Photography. He learned photography, he was doing photography. We’ve built this thing, and now Elephant in the Room is now a three location men’s grooming lounge on the verge of franchising. We’re focusing right now on opening one in Oklahoma City, and opening another one in Jinx here.

It’s getting exciting we’re on the verge of– actually going to be opening two here in the next year and we’re actually expanding our downtown location and it’s a dollar for all the listeners. It’s a dollar for your first haircut. It’s exciting. I’ll just tell you, is that this concept of that he presenting me with the idea was actually an opportunity for me. Was one that I looked at it very much as an opportunity. I realized, I can make some money as a result of getting my money to work for me. Profit. Jared, where do a lot of people get that wrong.

Jared: They look at it as if they’re trying to– they make it harder. First of all, they make it a lot harder than it needs to be. See money flows to good projects period.

Clay: Repeat that please.

Jared: Money flows to good projects.

Clay: Money flows to good projects.

Jared: Raising capital when you really get right down to it, if you have built a great business, you honed it as we’ve talked about, you’re playing your position, money flows to it a whole lot easier. You work on the business, the capital flows to you. It’s a magnetism thing.

Clay: Napoleon Hill, the best selling author who by the way the number one top selling, the best selling self help author of all time, by the way the Oral Roberts University fans out there, he’s actually was a personal mentor of Oral Roberts. “He was the personal mentor? I thought Jesus was a mentor.” Yes, Jesus and Napoleon Hill. Napoleon Hill taught him the business systems. He says this, he says, “There is plenty of capital available just a shortage of good ideas.” Z.

Dr. Zoellner: That’s so true. There’s lots of money out there, a lot of venture capitalist, a lot of people that want to make more than two or three or four percent, putting it just in a CD or in a bank. There’s money out there and you’ve got to learn how to shark tank that money into your pocket, in your business pocket.

Clay: Shark tank that money into your pockets. Stay tuned, Thrive Time Show.

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You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show, on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: All right Oklahomies in T-Town. It’s about time to get down to the profound. We’re teaching you how to start and grow a successful business. I’m telling you what, building a successful business is always an exciting thing for us to talk about because Z, Oprah– Dr. Zoellner, Oprah refers to money as a magnifier. Oprah just said this, she says, “When you wealth in the hands of somebody, it allows them to be the fullest version of themselves.”

If you’re charitable, you can be very charitable. If you’re a bad guy, you can be a very bad guy. Money allows you to magnify whatever your visions and your dreams are. I’m telling you what, if you’re listening right now, money is just an absolute magnifier and multiplier of your vision. Z, why does money change things in a positive way for so many people?

Dr. Zoellner: Well, because they’re positive people. I think a lot of people out there especially entrepreneurial spirit, they have a purpose. They have a goal. They have a dream that they want to do, and it’s not in a fairest, it’s not, “I’m going to make all these money and then I’m going to [laughs]” They’re out going, “Hey, I want to affect something. I want to change the dynamic of my family. I want to change the dynamic of my– I want to leave an inheritance to my grandchildren. I’m tired of just punching the clock, and I know that just an hourly rate is not going to get me where I want to go.”

You know what, They may want a beach home down in Florida. They may want–

Clay: According to Forbes, 57% of Americans want to start or grow a successful business, and according to Forbes, Tulsa is the number one city on the planet for young entrepreneurs. Google it, don’t believe. Google it, verify it. Thrivers listen, Google it.

Dr. Zoellner: Google that thing.

Clay: Google that mess. We have a guy, a guru, a guy on the show here, Jared Pawelka. He’s teaching you specifically how to raise capital, how to sell your business or how to buy a business. That’s what he does for a living. Z off air, you had a couple of questions that you wanted to ask Jared. Got some rapid fire questions. I give you the floor my friend.

Dr. Zoellner: To think about it, this is our last part of the show. We’re only on two hours and there’s some things I wanted to get to. A couple of those things Jared, I know you go in and you help evaluate businesses for people that want to sell their business. Give me some rules of the thumb of what a business is worth. I’m listening out there, I’m just wrapping up lunch, I’m driving back to my business and I’m sitting thinking to myself, what are my businesses worth? Give us some rules of the thumb for us out there.

Jared: Sure. Quickly, this is a way to self evaluate even before you’re ready to have a transaction. You maybe thinking, “I’m not ready to sell.” Let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about what that would look like. People evaluate a business three quick ways you can evaluate a business. You can look at it from the assets standpoint. What are the assets worth? Some buyers-

Dr. Zoellner: An asset to the hard tangible thing. You have a building. You have a landscaping business so you own mowers, you have weed eaters, you have the actual tangible items you have as your assets.

Clay: Or a picture of Donald Trump that I put myself on it so it looks as though my face is on Donald Trump’s body.

Dr. Zoellner: Technically it’s an asset. I don’t know how much it’s worth but it’s an asset.

Jared: I’ve seen a picture that looks like Donald Trump with your face.

Dr. Zoellner: That’s the first one. Just assets. If you’re just doing an assets sale, what’s my stuff worth right?

Jared: That’s one. Another is you think of what that business earns either in revenue or in the bottom line, we call that EBITDA. EBITDA is an acronym that ultimately measures the effectiveness of management.

Clay: I don’t want to put you on the spot, but EBITDA, I don’t know what that means. What is the bottom line? What does that mean?

Jared: It’s Earnings right before depreciation taxes and amortization.

Clay: One more time because I was eating my Oklahoma Joe’s baked beans. I have a lot of things going on. I was not paying attention, one more time.

Jared: It’s a bottom line metric, few cost have been taken out. It measures essentially the effectiveness of management and it stands for earnings before taxes depreciation and amortization.

Dr. Zoellner: You’ve got number what the business is earning, so then you multiply by a multiplier if you’re using your second rule of thumb. What’s the range of that? What is that two to 10, three to five? What’s the range of that?

Jared: You can imagine it varies, but a good starting point is up to maybe six times EBITDA or earnings. Let’s just say earnings.

Dr. Zoellner: That’s the second. After listening, before you take out your rent and before you take out some of your depreciation, so you have what we call a gross profit number and then you take that times a multiplier and that’s one way to evaluate a business. Let’s go to number three.

Jared: It can be as simple as a customer list. Maybe you don’t [crosstalk] about that business as it stands right now, but somebody’s customer list. We have products that I think we could do better serving your clients. Sometimes people want to strip away most of everything that you think is valuable-

Clay: I want to interject something on behalf of Mount having sold a business a lot. I’ll tell you this, a bank is a business I typically tell people, “If you take the total profit the business makes, times two and a half, plus the assets, the machines, the tools, the whatever, that’s pretty easy. That’s a baseline low, but if you got a business where you’re dominating the market place, people will pay a lot for your customer list. Z, people will do that.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Dr. Zoellner: Absolutely. Like you said, a lot of times they want to put you in because they want a vertical, integrate your business and your customer list to the products they have. They may have a superior product, or they may have a sister product. It’s like Clay back when you were doing your DJ stuff. Someone maybe had the party planning, they had the photography, they had maybe a wedding venue, they maybe have all these other stuff but they didn’t have– they wanted your customer list because they knew that they can sell them multiple things. They’re going to buy your business, not because your DJs are the best. Not because you’ve got the best JBL speakers–

Clay: My speakers are sweet.

Dr. Zoellner: They’re so good, and then the little boards that you change all the things there.

Clay: The mixer, get that right. Unbelievable. No respect for the DJ game. All the DJs are offended.

Dr. Zoellner: They know that you’ve done over 4,000 events through the year and they know that you have systems and they know that you have a certain way of going about it. That customer list, the way that you guys have is how they value that.

Jared: You know what, I bet your listeners really want to know is where they can have an impact on that valuation.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, and that’s part of the show. The honing, the kind of fat out, making more efficient, make more money, increasing your assets by getting more capital, growing your business. All these things are part of making your business worth more money, because eventually that business is going to get sold. It’s just the way that it is.

Clay: You’re negative.

Dr. Zoellner: No. I’m telling you–

Clay: Sell out.

Dr. Zoellner: No, like me, okay let’s say my past, one of these days apparently I may die. I don’t know. That’s the rumor on the streets.

Clay: You’re my favorite living man. Please don’t die.

Dr. Zoellner: That’s my plan is not to. Okay, say I do, then my kids or my grandchildren, some eventually is going to not want to may be an optometrist, maybe doesn’t want

that building they’ll going to sale. So, this applies to every business and knowing the value of your business and then working on increasing the value of it is what the show is all about.

Jared: But you know those few things this is why I think you’re driving toward. Of those two things, let’s just say profitability and your multiplier. Do you know what– what do you think in your experience which can you have more impact on? One of them static and one of them you can have a big impact on.

Dr. Zoellner: The profit. I think that the multiplier. I mean not the multiplier but the profit.

Jared: I would argue the multiplier.

Dr. Zoellner: Well you make it sexier you make it more unique. You make it– You’re right. Some of those dot com things when they were popping there were getting 10, 15, 20 times.

Jared: Then why is [crosstalk].

Clay: They’re gross revenue.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes.

Jared: It’s perception right?

Dr. Zoellner: It is– it is about perception.

Clay: Which is why now we’re pancing the office, the perception wasn’t good right and we’re pancing all. Now Z, I want to get in the final moves you want to weigh your options Thrivers. Because of we don’t have a ton of time, I want to make sure you get this. Jared, if people are going “Okay, I want to weigh my options, I want to find out more. How can I get involved with you.” What is your website my friend?

Jared: That’s

Clay: So if I am looking to grace capital sell my business or buy a business. I reach out to you and what happens?

Jared: Well, we’re going to understand what your business is right now. Talk about what it could be and then communicate that value to the market. So we’ll going to– It’ll be a process.

Clay: Now, if you’re listening right and you’re going, “Zippidy doo-da, zippidy day. I just want to start a business today.” Z, how can they do it? We got three options here. One of them is What’s that all about?

Dr. Zoellner: Well, I called the Netflix business coaching. What does that mean? You know, Netflix you pay a monthly fee and you can watch it as much as. You watch that thing 24/7. If you want you can search by category–

Clay: “Do you guys have any Kevin Spacey stuff on there, about him and president or something?”

Dr. Zoellner: I think so. I think so. So here’s the deal, so what we’ve done is we’ve going out and found. I mean the best of the best. I mean these guys and ladies are just great mentors. They’re millionaires, their success stories.

Clay: I hate to interrupt you but I got to say this. Our guy David Robinson, one of our partners. He was the MVP of the NBA. He won 2 gold medals but you go “Yes, but that was a basketball player.” Now he went on to start Academy sports right here in Tulsa.

Dr. Zoellner: Yes. Yes.

Clay: That’s his company. Center play to the top catering company for arenas. That’s his company. $300,000,000 Venture capital fund. That’s him. David Robinson. By the way, He’s on our site teaching Leadership and management–

Dr. Zoellner: Yes, I’d like we have Lee Cockerell used to manage a little thing Disney world .

Clay: Never heard of Disney world.

Jared: Yes, they got 3000 employees down there and all the systems and the way that they were able to. You know what, people, I hate this you can’t have quality and quantity and they just proved that you can, you can. Every experience is great you know. And so we have these great mentors on here we filmed, we’ve made a file, we’ve made it educational. And you can get on there, you can watch from mentors you can watch from categories and you can learn for $19 a month how to start and grow a business.

Clay: Is Disney World like [unintelligible 01:32:55] by the blue whale. I think that’s what. Okay. The second option is you can go ahead and set up a one on one business coaching and get a business coach. One on one business coaching. You mean, I can have a guru who can teach me what to do. Oh you can. you can. Step by step yes. We’ll going to teach you what you need to do to start and grow a business. That’s one on one mentorship.

We have that available or you can come to a workshop. I like to work with a group of people. I like to come out for a two day. I want to work on my business not just in it. Two day workshops. Learn more about it Z, It’s the world’s best business school. The world’s best business coach and business coaching experience and as always three, two, one boom.

[01:33:38] [END OF AUDIO]


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