Business Coach | 4 Principles You Need To Know To Affair Proof Your Marriage

Business Coach | Ask Clay & Z Anything

Audio Transcription

Business Coach 163

During this business coach podcast, America’s #1 business coach Clay Clark, and Dr. Zoellner bring Pastor Kelly Goins and his beautiful wife Lisa Goins on the show to teach husbands and wife’s the 4 principles you need to know to affair proof your marriage. Do not miss this amazing episode today.

Learn From The Business Coach To How To Affair Proof Your Marriage : Podcast Transcript

Host: Now, broadcasting from the center of the universe and the world headquarters. Presenting the world’s only business school without the BS with optometrist and entrepreneur Dr. Robert Zoellner and the former Small Business Administration Entrepreneur of the year in your ear, Clay Clerk. It’s the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170. Three, two, one, boom.

Clay Clark: All right Thrive nation and Oklahomies, welcome back to your favorite business radio show. It’s the Thrive Time Show and welcome into your audio dojo of mojo. For many of you, you’ve been listening to politics. You’re over there on Rush Limbaugh listening to his stuff. You’re talking about, “Should they build a wall should they not. Bernie Sanders, is that a good thing, a bad thing? Hillary Clinton, are we going to do a recount? I mean I just don’t know. Are we going to make it? Are they can repeal Obamacare?”

You realize I can’t control any of that stuff. I have got to find something that I can focus on that’s positive that I can actually execute, it’s actionable. You’ve switched over to 1170, you found the Thrive Time Show and you realize, “Oh my gosh. Where is Dr. Zoellner? Who is this man? Why is he not here?” Dr. Robert Zoellner, my co-host with the mo-ost, he’s out in Guatemala today.

“Why is he in Guatemala?” Because he could afford to be there. He’s in Guatemala right now enjoying his Christmas vacation and I’m here in Tulsa Oklahoma with you. I’m telling you, we had we had to bring in some great people. It’s hard to take the place of Dr. Zoellner I mean he’s a business mogul. He’s a very successful guy.

Many of you are emailing him questions all the time. No exaggeration, we’ve had hundreds of emails come in. People asking about, “Hey, hey, you talk a lot about business, how to have a successful business, but how do I have a successful life?” “Maybe I have a successful company but how do I build a successful life?” I’m certainly qualified to teach you how to grow a successful business. I know how to do that. I think it’s fairly easy and in these equation, it’s mathematical, it happens.

But what about having a successful marriage? What we did today, is we switched it off a little bit and we’ve got way too many ladies in the box that rocks rocks. There’s two ladies and there’s two men. There’s two ladies, if you’re on Facebook live right, you’re going to notice. You’re going, “There are so many ladies on the show. There’s two ladies. We never even have more than one, now there’s two,” so much estrogen.

We have my incredible wife of 15 years. She’s obviously legally blind she can’t sea me. Its Mrs. Vanessa Clark there, Mrs. Vanessa Clark. We have Lisa Goins and she is the co-pastor of Faith Church here in Tulsa and we have a Pastor Kelly Goins. Lisa, thank you for being on the show, my friend.

Lisa Goins: I’m just very excited to be here tonight.

Clay: You are a powerhouse when you speak, but I’ve seen you speak before you. You have a thing you do, you bring it.

Lisa: I really appreciate the vote of confidence.

Clay: I mean it, you’re awesome. Mrs. Vanessa, my incredible wife. How are you doing? You doing good?

Vanessa: Great. I’m really excited to be here and really excited about the show. This is my wheel house.

Clay: This is your wheel house. Now, Pastor Kelly. Now, you obviously are part of team man. You and I are going to stick together.

Pastor Goins: I am.

Clay: After the show, we’re going get some meat together in Oklahoma Joe’s. We’ll get some meat. But, I appreciate you being on the show, my friend.

Pastor Goins: You bet. Glad to be on here and especially with the girls. Lisa is my better half definitely.

Clay: Now, we’re talking about the four principles you need to know to affair proof your marriage. Now, affair-proofing your marriage. Pastor Kelly, that’s sort of a awkward topic.

Pastor Goins: That is but it’s time that the church has to talk about that kind of stuff and take it out of the mystic stuff and bring it back to reality.

Clay: I think a lot of people — I was looking up a lot of research to get prepared for the show because I’m always talking about business and just nerdy business stuff. I was looking it up in the New York Times. “I don’t play at the New York Times, aren’t they a liberal locations?” Calm down. It says this infidelity for men over 60 increased to 28% in 2006, 28%. I mean does that shock you as a pastor?

Pastor Goins: Nothing shocks me anymore. I think that it’s probably less within the church. No, I don’t think those statistics are out of range at all.

Clay: You feel confident you can teach us how to affair proof our marriage.

Pastor Goins: I do. I’m going to try my hardest. We’ve got some great information and years of experience.

Clay: Now Vanessa, why are you passionate about this subject?

Vanessa: Of course because I’m married but also I would say those statistics I think are even skewed because those are people who admitted to it. How many more people are out there who are cheating on their husbands or wives and not admitting to it? I think that —

Clay: “I’m always honest while surveys for people who might or might not share my name.”

Vanessa: [laughs] I’m just saying I think it’s a bigger problem than we realize and it comes down to — I know Kelly, Pastor Kelly has got information on this. But meeting each other’s needs, the purpose of marriage and getting married, I think that a lot of people get away from the purpose and they, instead of making sure they are meeting when another needs for physical and emotional intimacy, it becomes more about instead of serving the person, when you get away from that you lose that. You don’t have a marriage anymore. Now, it comes about, “Well okay, can I have a nice car? Can you get me a house? Just give me some stuff.”

Clay: Okay. We’re going to get into the four principles you need to know affair proof your marriage. Now, the notable quotable, this comes from Hebrews 13:4-5. “Is that from the bible?”

Pastor Goins: That is.

Clay: “That’s so offensive to half the people –” “Bernie Sanders would never approve of this. Bernie would not approve of this reading.” It says, “Marriage should be honored by all and the marriage bed kept pure for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. Keep your lives free for the love of money and be content with what you have because God has said, ‘never will I leave you, never will I forsake you.'” Pastor Kelly, what are we talking about?

Pastor Goins: If you look at this, it’s just a matter of what I’m going to be satisfied with, if I’m always not satisfied with what I have, if I’m always looking somewhere else. The scripture talks about looking somewhere else within your marriage and looking somewhere within your life. If you never can have enough money, if you never can have enough success, you’re never going to be happy.

That goes into your marriage relationship too or your relationship with whoever, you have to be satisfied with what you have.

Clay: Now, Lisa, do you refer to yourself as the co-pastor? What do you want me to call you? You like the wizard? Are you the co-wizard, the co-pastor? What’s your what’s your move? What do you call yourself?

Lisa: I think my move is when he needs to call in the big guns, I show up.

Clay: Okay, okay. So here we go. Now by the way, but where could people find out more about your church?Where’s your is located?

Pastor Goins: We are located at 81st of Memorial Tulsa Oklahoma. We’re in the northeast corner right next to quick trip and we’ve been there for just a little over a month. Everything’s going fantastic. It’s a great church. You can also check us out at

Clay: Now, Lisa I want to ask you this. When you hear this verse, when we read this verse, it talks about keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have because God has said, “Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you.” What does that mean to you?

Lisa: I think we know in our life, if we’re a believer in God that He is with us at the core, that’s what we believe. I think life with raising a family and marriage has become skewed like Vanessa was saying and what you’re willing to admit. The fact that we live our lives in comparison not happy with what we have because we have social media.

Thank the Lord, our four kids are in college, so we have successfully raised them to that point. If I had tried to raise my children in the Pinterest generation when I was lucky to get a Pop-Tart on the table. But these parents are showing up and their pancakes need to have a clown face and with a little whipped cream hat on top before it could be consider breakfast. If you don’t have that, you’re not putting that out there, then you begin to compare yourself to other people.

Clay: Okay. Wait a second. I think Vanessa, my wife, my incredible wife of 15 years, she has something to say. I was going to say, though, on behalf of the man [unintelligible 00:08:16] listening, “I have no idea what they’re talking about.” I don’t even go on Facebook and if I do, it’s just marketing.

Pastor Goins: What is Pinterest? I don’t know.

Vanessa: I agree with her about comparing but I think we don’t really even start to compare until you don’t have needs that are being met. You’ve got to come back to why did you marry your spouse your husband or wife? Did you marry them so that they could support you and give you a nice house and a nice car? Did you marry them so you could have a clean house and have a hot meal and you get home? I don’t think so. I married my husband because he emotionally met my needs.

Clay: That’s not true. You married me for my body.

Vanessa: And that too, and his body. I’m saying because you are emotionally meeting one another’s needs and hopefully not sexually yet but that you’re going to be able to sexually meet each other’s needs. When you were doing that, you did care if you are living in a one-bedroom apartment on a blow-up mattress with no furniture. You are as happy as [crosstalk] —

Clay: Which is what we did.

Vanessa: Which is what we did. We were happy to do. Why? Because you’re meeting each other’s needs emotionally and sexually and so you have that intimacy. That is what the entire foundation of your marriage is built on. Once you take that away, any friendship or any relationship with someone of the opposite sex is a threat.

I know there’s a lot of points that go down here. But I am like, before you even get to the first point, if you’re hiding anything from your spouse, you’re already in dangerous territory because you’ve got to have the intimacy. When you have it, you can build the foundation of your whole marriage. Once it’s gone, it doesn’t matter how nice of a house you have or how nice the hot meal is, you don’t have a relationship.

Pastor Goins: Exactly. I love what you said because there is a direct correlation here. We talked about it last time we were on the air in Ephesians the 5th chapter.

We see this correlation between the way Christ loves the church and the way that we love our spouses. We see it here because the scripture says that God says, “Never will I leave you never will I forsake you.” It’s the very same thing that we do with our spouses. We make that same commitment.

When those needs are met, we don’t look anywhere else because our needs are met there. We’re taken care of, we’re satisfied and everything is good from that point on.

Clay: I want to interject something on behalf of, because we have a lot of listeners. I’ve talked to you. Many of you, I’ve talked to. I can’t say I talked to thousands of you, but I know that on the average of about 37,000 people who listen to every show and I’ve talked to hundreds of you. One of the things that you will ask and you’re thinking right now, you’re going, “How does this relate to business? This is a business show.”

Here’s the deal. Financial tip, don’t lose half your stuff. You know what I mean? So let’s just say that you’re just like, “I’m just sort of strictly pragmatic business. I’m just a robotic business guy.” You don’t want to build a big business empire and lose half of it because you get a divorce, right? Just call it and calculate it.

Also, from an emotional level, your kids by the way, most you listeners have kids. You’re a business, you have kids. Statistically on average, most business owners have kids. The trauma that it does to families when a husband and wife get divorced is just, it’s awful. Vanessa, you’ve seen it. If you’re listening right now, you’re going, “Are you saying I’m a bad parent? I’m in the car with my kid right now you freaking jerk. Why are you doing this. It’s weird. It’s awkward.”

We’re not perfect. I’m not going to cast the first stone and go, “I’m perfect.” But the thing is we want you to have a successful life, not just a successful business. Vanessa.

Vanessa: I was just going to chime in of what you said. Of course you’re saying, “Hey, as a business owner, you might be making a lot of pragmatic decisions,” but you come down to if you’re not fulfilling to each other the reason why you got married eventually one of those two spouses is going to say, “This is the one area you can’t designate, your sex?”

Clay: What?

Vanessa: “And you can’t designate your — you have someone else going to meet your spouse’s emotional needs.” You start to look and you say, “Yes, if I am getting from this is financial support or whatever, it’s not –“

Clay: I will say Warren Buffett did delegate to sex.

Vanessa: He did.

Clay: He actually has, when his wife pragmatically agreed that he would hire a mistress and which is why Warren Buffett is not on today’s program.

Vanessa: Warren would argue they don’t have, I would say, I would say the happy marriage because —

Clay: And they no longer talk.

Vanessa: What is that? She is it she’s just getting some money? Get divorced and take off.

Clay: Yes. You’re getting into the — You know the details here. When we come back thrivers, we’re going to get into principle number one. Pastor Kelly, why does somebody need to listen to these four principles? Why does somebody need to understand how to affair proof their marriage, why?

Pastor Goins: Because it is the easiest thing for us in our society today to go the wrong way when it comes to commitment. Our society doesn’t want to commit especially our millennial generation. They don’t want to commit, they want their options open. They would rather get a tattoo than get married because marriage is a commitment.

Clay: “Bro, we could just like, you know. We could do like — you and I, we could be roommates or she could be my roommate it doesn’t matter. It’s like if it works out it works out. I could go get a tattoo on my neck, bro.”

Pastor Goins: Commitment has to be at the core of what you do in your business, what you do in your marriage and what you do spiritually. So that’s why this is important today.

Clay: Now, if people want to learn more and they’re listening today and they go, “Okay, my wife and I or my husband and I we want to learn more we want to kind of deep dive in. We obviously just have a limited time here and half the show is devoted to talking about Oklahoma Joe’s Barbecue, which is one of our generous sponsors and I just let those baked beans. Just lunch time every time it gets me excited.” But, people want to learn more a little bit more about your ministry and how to really affair proof their marriage. Where can they really learn more about you?

Pastor Goins: We’re getting ready to do a series on relationships and marriage coming up in January in our church you can find out more about it at tulsafaithcom.

Clay: A new year, a new approach to marriage, it could all be yours. Go to Faith Church right there behind Quiktrip 81st in Memorial. Stay tuned Thrivers, we’re going to teach you how to affair proof your marriage.

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Host: Live, local, now, you’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio, 1170.

Clay: All right Thrive nation, welcome back to your inspiration station is to Thrive Time Show during your afternoon for a show. Many of you are going, “Hey, hey, hey, here’s the deal. Here’s the deal. I just discovered, yes, for the first time I was listening to Rush Limbaugh. He’s talking about like are we going to recount and Trump is going, it’s huge.” And he’s going, “Does Donald Trump, does he need his own Secret Service or does he — is the secret service good enough for him? Is Bernie Sanders going to –?”

I’m tired of it. I need to learn about some actionable things that I could actually learn to improve my own life. And so, you’ve turned over to the station. Guess what? You found the Thrive Time Show, it’s business school without the BS. Yes, I’m your co-host with the most. My name is Clay Clark. I’m a business coach the former SBA Entrepreneur of the year in your ear. I’m the father of five human kids. Check that out, “Five human kids. How does that — how did you do that?” That’s not the show. We’re going to talk about it. It’s not appropriate. We’re not going to get into it.

Vanessa: That’s the show.

Clay: That’s not.

Pastor Goins: We know how you did it.

Vanessa: That is the show.

Clay: No we’re not, just stop it. My incredible wife for 15 years, she keeps — just she wants to take the show in a negative way. This is a very family correct show. But here’s the thing as thrivers, we are talking today about how to build a successful life not just as a successful business because if you gain the world financially but you lose your own family and your own marriage and your own soul, what is the point? And so, because I did not feel like I am qualified to really deep dive into the subject, I brought my incredible wife of 15 years onto the show, Mrs. Vanessa Clark. How’re you doing?

Vanessa: Doing great.

Clay: I brought Pastor Kelly Goins. This is the guy, he’s the head pastor the senior pastor of Faith Church at 81st in Memorial, right there behind Quicktrip. How long have you been in ministry, sir?

Pastor Goins: About 36 years.

Clay: So you know what you’re talking about.

Pastor Goins: I do. [laughs]

Clay: You maybe have counseled a few couples.

Pastor Goins: I have. Many. [laughs]

Clay: Your wife, I think she just turned 24. If you’re on Facebook live, you’ll notice Lisa Goins. Your wife just turned 24. How long have you guys been married there Pastor Kelly, roughly approximately?

Pastor Goins: This is going to sound weird but almost about 25 years. I married her when she was one year old.

Lisa: Yes. [laughs]

Clay: Wow. Then we have your incredible wife on the show, Mrs. Lisa Goins. How’re you Mrs. Lisa?

Lisa: I’m doing awesome thank you very much.

Clay: We’re talking a principle number one. We’re talking about how to affair proof your marriage and specifically principle number one, never turn your heart away from your spouse. Now, a mystic statistic, I’m going to read this to you. This is of statistic that is true from the New York Times. You go, “They’re liberal. They’re liberal.” Calm down captain conservative, listen to me. This is not a political show. “Infidelity for men over 60 increased to 28% in 2006 up from 20% in 1991. For women over 60, the increase is more striking, to 15% up from 5%.”

The point is infidelity is on the rise. That’s not so good. So Mrs. Lisa, why is it so important that we never turn our heart away from our spouse? Educate us.

Lisa: It’s important to keep your heart turned toward your spouse from the very beginning. Like we were talking about before, we are emotionally invested. The reason why those hearts turn is because we’re not having that connection. What I learned after 25 years of marriage and I learned this fairly early on, is that I had to learn to meet the emotional needs of my spouse and it was so much different than the way I wanted to receive or have my emotional needs met.

Back to our longtime friend, Dr. Dobson. He did that amazing book about the love languages. But it’s so important and it’s helped me find this way to keep my heart turned towards my spouse early on in marriage, because what I learned is that for Kelly to meet his emotional needs, he needs words of affirmation. He needs me to tell him he is a handsome dude.

Pastor Goins: Oh, yes.

Lisa: So handsome.

Clay: Wow.

Lisa: He needs me to hold his hand and when he walks in the door, to give him a hug and say, “How was your day?” And, “Come sit down and let me rub your feet.” And just, “I want to look in your eyes and tell you how amazing you are.”

Clay: Wow.

Lisa: Yes.

Clay: How did you guys meet? How did you meet?

Lisa: We met at–

Pastor Goins: At therapy. No, I’m kidding.

Lisa: [laughs] No. We met at a church camp. The problem with that is that I can know that about him but he needs to figure out what it is about me because I am the exact opposite. So where he likes all the words of affirmation, what I really need is, I need active service and I need gifts.

Clay: Really, you need gifts?

Lisa: Because if there is no actual love languages. When he walks in the door and he wants to be the center of attention to find out how his day is, I really want him to take out the trash unload the dishwasher and did you bring

mama a new pair of shoes?

Clay: Really?

Lisa: It’s learning how our specific needs are met helps keeping our hearts turned towards each other.

Clay: Uncomfortable conversation but I want to ask you. How quickly, how many weeks, how many months, how many days, in your marriage, where you realized, ”Oh no, this is different than I thought it would be”? Was it like seven minutes? Because I know my wife and I, we had a honeymoon, it was like a day where we got married and the next day, I think my wife realized, ”Oh no, this is not how I thought it would be.”

Lisa: Yes.

Vanessa: No. I will say this. Go ahead, you go ahead and answer his question first.

Lisa: I would say, yes, it happened very quickly. I got married and then I thought, ”Oh wow, I’m a pastor’s wife.” Then three weeks after we got married, we started our family and then we gave birth to four kids in three years, only possible with twins in the middle, so here we are today.

Clay: Wow, and Mrs. Vanessa, you had a thought.

Vanessa: I am a huge doctor Laura fan.

Clay: Really? It’s controversial.

Vanessa: My husband knows this and all growing up. I mean who as a teenager envisions themselves as someone who will never get married yet reads all of doctor Laura’s books, all of Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. But, I was just passionate because I said, “I would never get married but if I did, I would be the best wife and have the best marriage.” That was my heart. I think what I learned along the way is I did pour 100% of myself into my marriage and made myself what I thought to be the best wife possible.

Clay: True.

Vanessa: What I learned along the way is you can do all that and it’s not enough because you can’t —

Clay: Oh come on, you’re doing great.

Vanessa: You have to know in yourself what is okay with you. I think I gave so much of myself that there wasn’t any more to give. Does that make sense? And so, I never thought I had a bad marriage but at a certain point I realized, ”You know what, I need to see what does Vanessa want?” And I see that in my daughters. I’d say, ”You need to think of, Anna, what do you want?” Because so many times you can be making someone else happy, which is great. Then I realized, ”What does Vanessa want? What does Vanessa need?”

I think in relationships, the best thing you can do is be realistic about it and know that you on yourself can’t make it perfect. You can try to be the perfect person but that doesn’t make a relationship perfect.

Clay: I want to chime in as a man-bear-pig here and then when we come back, Pastor Kelly is going to help sort this out because he’s going like, ”You guys are crazy people. I’m the pastor here, calm down.” I will just say this, I discovered quickly that you can’t make your spouse happy and they can’t make you happy. You have to be happy with yourself. I wake up every day, there’s a song called cheerleader my wife and I listen to it. It’s kind of a reggae-tone song. But like, “I feel like my job is to be her cheerleader.”

Vanessa: True.

Clay: I literally wake up going, ”How could I make my wife — how could I make her life a little bit better?” And I literally try to do that.

Vanessa: He literally does do this.

Clay: I go to the See’s Candy at the mall and I’m like, ”Yes, I bet she likes the dark chocolate almonds. I guess she likes organic eggs, I should probably buy those too.” I’m always trying to do these things but the thing is, I can’t make her happy and she can’t make me happy. We have to be happy with ourselves and so but you never want to turn your heart away from your spouse.

When we come back, pastor Kelly is going to educate us about — because he’s seen there are certain predictable patterns. You’ve seen through years of ministry where people begin to turn their heart away and you go, ”Okay. I’ve seen this before. Okay, this is normal unfortunately but we need to stop this behavioral pattern.” He’s been a pastor, I have not. I’m just kind of man-bear-pig doing business well and then the rest of life is just sort of, ”Uh-oh.” But anyway, Pastor Kelly will educate us when he comes back.


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Host: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Three, two, one and boom. We are in your room. Wherever you are, we are there with you. It’s the Thrive Time Show. It is Tulsa’s only local business radio show. Typically, we have Doctor Robert Zoellner on the show, my co-host with the most but he is currently in Guatemala. “Why is he in Guatemala? Because the weather is warmer. This is just in. The weather is warmer in Guatemala,” and he could afford to be there because he’s a very successful entrepreneur.

I’m here holding down the fort. I’m going, ”Remember the Alamo, remember the Alamo.” I’m defending the fort. I’m making sure the show must go on. But literally, I’m not kidding, I thought about it, I said, ”Who could possibly replace Doctor Robert Zoellner?” He’s a business guru and I realized we can’t. In terms of business, no, no, we’re not going to do that. We’re going to switch from how to have a successful business to have a successful life. You see what I did right there? I just switched it up.

Now, we’re talking about how to have a successful life and so we brought on my incredible wife of 15 years, Mrs. Vanessa Clark. We brought on Mrs. Lisa Goins. She is the pastor’s wife/real-estate guru. She has an incredible entrepreneurship journey she’s going down. I mean she is a ‘mom-preneur’. This is just so much. We could spend like seven shows on that but then we have pastor Goins here, pastor Kelly Goins. He’s on the show and he’s going to teach us how to affair proof our marriage.

Now, principle number one is you never want to turn your heart away from your spouse. Pastor Kelly, educate us.

Pastor Goins: If we can get through the list, I will but doctor Gail Saltz talks about this list and gave this list and so I’ve kind of used it. It’s a progressive list that just starts with when most meetings and conversations are kept secret from your partner. Number two, when you say and do things you would never say or do in front of your spouse.

Clay: Quick time out. So you’re saying principle number one, you’re saying when your conversations are kept secret from your spouse?

Pastor Goins: Yes.

Clay: This is not good.

Pastor Goins: This is a progressive thing. It starts with you, again, not having your needs met and now you begin to find someone that you can connect with and you can talk with them and you begin to journey through this process of intimacy with them.

Vanessa: It’s a conscious decision I must say because if you’re deciding to keep it secret, that doesn’t just happen by accident, so you’re consciously deciding now.

Pastor Goins: It is but I would think that most guys or men or women who go through this, more accidentally, they’re more following their feelings than they are their minds through this process.

Vanessa: I agree with that. Yes.

Clay: Oh boy, okay.

Pastor Goins: It’s more, ”This feels good, it doesn’t feel good at home. I’m not getting people who understand me at home. I’m not getting my needs met.”

?Lisa: We’re all human so we love to have our egos stroked . Especially, we’re talking to a lot of thrivers out there, people who are business owners, when you’re in a position of power, I mean it feels good. You have at home someone questioning you maybe.

Clay: I think a lot of times, just so we’re getting this, so we understand this. In business, okay, just so we understand organizational leadership, doctor Zoellner is the CEO of I started and I asked him, I said, ”I would like for you to become the CEO.” I am the founder. I was the CEO, I asked him to be. Why did I do that? Because I had a lot of success building multi-million dollar businesses but he’s built a bank.

Vanessa: Yes.

Clay: I mean he’s built an auto-auction. I mean we’re going to the next level. There’s hundreds and hundreds of employees and I go, ”I’ve had a tonne of success.” If you want to build a multi-million dollar business, I can do that but you want to talk about hiring hundreds upon hundreds of employees, boom.

Here is the deal, I’m sort of like subservient to him, right? Now obviously, I’m not a gorgeous female but let’s just say that I was. It’s hard to fathom that. But basically, when you have somebody, you’re the boss and they do what you want them to do, that’s their job, it creates a weird dynamic. You said step number two, you said when you say and do things you would never say or do in front of your spouse, what are you talking about?

Pastor Goins: As this relationship begins to develop, you begin to do secret things with that person or emotionally invest in them that your spouse doesn’t know anything about and you don’t want your spouse to know about it because your spouse would feel like that that’s not appropriate for you to do.

Vanessa: Because you know in your heart.

Pastor Goins: You know in your heart.

Clay: Like secret rendezvous at Oklahoma Joe’s for baked beans?

Pastor Goins: Yes.

Clay: Oh, sorry Oklahoma Joe’s.

Vanessa: You made a great point. You said you’re investing time in this person and this is what I think is so key. If you have the time and the energy to choose to invest in this person, if you could use the wisdom, if you could take a step back from the situation and how you’re feeling in that moment, no matter how good that feels to your ego or whatever, if you could invest, use that time and energy to invest in your spouse and flirt with your spouse, you’re going to get such a return on that investment.

Clay: Uh-oh. You’re looking good in that Patriots gear, I’ll tell you that.

Vanessa: That’s right, that’s for you babe, that’s for you.

Clay: Okay.

Vanessa: But I’m saying the return is going to be generations. I mean it’s going to be wonderful and you’re

investing in your marriage instead of doing what feels good in that moment. There’s something that needs to be worked on in that marriage so that whatever that rift is they can invest.

Pastor Goins: When your marriage is based on physical attraction or what you can do for me, it’s going to fail. It’s not going to be strong because bodies change, needs change.

Clay: You’re still beautiful.

Pastor Goins: Things change in our lives and we’re blessed, Clay, with beautiful wives who have kept themselves and have worked on being beautiful.

Clay: You’re a beautiful man. It’s a weird time to tell you, but your beard is real. That’s an authentic beard. I tell you, if you were to go to Faith Church and you want to just — I mean if you’re looking for a male model, you’re going to go to a Faith Church every Sunday. What time is church start at?

Pastor Goins: At 10:30.

Clay: Wow, and how many people there are artists who are just trying to draw you?

Lisa: I’m hoping he’s going to [unintelligible 00:30:53] getting that beard off.

Vanessa: Yes.


Pastor Goins: Where are we going with this? Where are we going with this?

Clay: I’m going to a dark place.

Vanessa: He’s meeting your love language. He [unintelligible 00:30:58] Lisa. He’s buttering him up.

Clay: Okay. All right now. [laughs]

Pastor Goins: Yes, but it’s not working.

Lisa: [unintelligible 00:31:04] when we’re dong?

Vanessa: Word of affirmation, give it to him.

Clay: All right now, principle number three, when you arrive at a time to have a private talk time with them. What are you talking about?

Pastor Goins: Again, this is a progressive thing that we begin to have these connections with someone else of the opposite sex. We don’t want our spouse to fight. Now, we’re arranging times that just us can get together, lunches or, “Hey. can you come in my office for a meeting?” Or, “We need to talk over this,” or, “Soccer mom this,” whatever. You just have those times that you meet and it feels good because they’re nice. They their affectionate towards you.

Vanessa: You’re strengthening that connection you’re spending time and energy and consciously strengthening it.

Clay: Now, to the sake of time because we only have we only have two hours of power here. I want to make sure we get into these. Now, principle number four, you say, when you share things with them that you don’t want your spouse or partner to know about. What are you talking about?

Pastor Goins: What we’re doing is we’re building walls with our spouse and we’re building windows with another person. Instead of doing it just the other way around, we need to be building walls with other people from other sexes but we need to be building windows with our spouse.

Clay: Now, Lisa you’ve obviously been a pastor’s wife. But I think you’re sort of like a pastor’s life coach. I mean you’ve — I’ve seen you speak at churches. You know what you’re doing, you bring it. How sad is it for you when you see couples, when you start to see this gradual progression? You’ve obviously been at the church. You care about your congregation. How hard is it to watch this happen?

Lisa: It’s tough because people don’t realize often that it’s even happening in their marriage until they’re looking like Vanessa said in hindsight and it’s already past them. It’s simple sometimes as just showing up at work 15 minutes early because you know someone else is going to be there about that time and so you’ll be getting your coffee at the same time. Then that let’s take it from a man is he’s going to compliment you. You know you’ve dressed yourself up because he’s going to compliment and say something nice to you.

I think it’s as simple as just your husband being the very first one that says before you walk out the door, “You look beautiful today. You are the most beautiful woman,” and then you go looking for it somewhere else. We see this deterioration in families. We’ve just seen it on and on and on.

Clay: Now I will tell you this Thrivers, when we come back, we’re going to get into the next part of this. It’s a systemic, it’s a predictable progression of things that aren’t so positive that lead to an affair. Don’t despair, we’re going to teach you how to just say, “Hey you know what? I’m going to safeguard my marriage. I’m going to have the best 2017 possible. This is going to be the best year yet for my marriage.” If you want to take your marriage from the toilet to the top, you want to stay tuned. Thrive Time Show during your new.

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Host: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Hello, Thrive nation. welcome back to your inspiration station. My name is Clay Clark. I’m the former SBA Entrepreneur of the year and the father of five human kids because that’s the way I have chosen to live. We have many chickens. We have kids. We have four cats, one of which is like more of a panda than a cat. This cat, I mean we — Vanessa, can you explain what this cat is like here.

Vanessa: He is awesome. He is like a real live big stuffed animal who you can hold and he will just lay and cuddle.

Clay: What’s his name?

Vanessa: Daylight.

Clay: But he is like a panda.

Vanessa: A funny name.

Clay: He’s like a panda thought.

Vanessa: He’s is a panda and we are all in love with him.

Clay: He’s a beautiful man. We feed him too much and I’m sorry Daylight if you’re feeling a little bit self-conscious about your weight right now. But he’s so great, he’s a great guy. Now, on today’s show, we’re talking about specifically this concept of the four principles you need to know to affair-proof your marriage. “I thought this was a business show, why do you got — That’s this thing is I start to trust you guys and then you switch it up. You switch the format. I just switched from Rush Limbaugh. Now, you’re getting into marriage. The next thing you know, we’re talking about you know Bernie Sanders.”

No, here’s the thing is, we want to teach you how to have a successful life and Dr. Robert Zoellner in Guatemala celebrating the holidays because he can. We wanted to make sure that the box that rocks was filled with people who know what they are talking about so we brought on my incredible wife of 15 years, Mrs. Vanessa Clark. We brought on Mrs. Lisa Goins. She is married to a man, he’s the pastor of a church. They’be been doing the church together. They have been growing church together for many, many years.

Pastor Kelly, principle number, one never turn your heart away from your spouse. We’re talking about this fourth principle, when you share things with them that you don’t want orthat you don’t with your partner. What are we talking about?

Pastor Goins: Specifically, this is a progression that we’ve been talking about, that you begin to invest in someone else other than your spouse. You begin to invest emotionally in them. Now, it is a systemic thing that begins to progress and get more and more. Now, we’re on this one that just says that you begin to invest more in them than you do in your own spouse and it’s this concept of windows and walls.

Vanessa: Yes. Windows and walls, I think it’s so great when you pointed out you said it actually flips where and now you are putting up walls between you and your spouse, not sharing things, not having an intimacy emotionally. I don’t know about other areas. You have this window to the outside where it should be a wall around you and your spouse protecting you from the outside influences. I just think I want to point out that anything that you value if it is a car, a house, a diamond ring. I mean you’re going to protect.

Clay: Tom Brady.

Vanessa: You’re going to buy, you’re going to maintain it. You’re going to buy insurance for it. If it’s a car, you’re going to park it away from the elements in a garage. If you don’t maintain it, if you don’t get the oil changed, if you don’t park it out at the garage, the best thing that happens is it just over time gets destroyed or ruined, doesn’t keep up, blows up one day. Worst case scenario, it’s completely destroyed or stolen.

Clay: I don’t want to put Lisa to the spot. Let me ask you, Lisa, with your marriage, I mean you’ve been married to a pastor. I mean there’s a certain — When people are married to a pastor, there’s a certain platform you’re held to, there’s a certain– people hold you up to a certain level and they go, “You’re a pastor’s wife. I mean you guys your marriage must be perfect.” I mean, “Pastor Kelly’s beautiful, he’s so handsome. Lisa you’re a great American.”

I mean how is it possible? You’re trying to — Have you ever caught yourself where you guys are married a couple of years and you’re going “Gosh, maybe things –“? I mean in your marriage, have you ever had a couple of spots where you’ve had to readjust or is it just everybody else?

Lisa: No, we’ve definitely had to readjust. What people don’t realize maybe about their pastors is that they are just human beings who fulfill the role as pastors. I learned early on, throw out the window what anybody ever taught me about what it looks like to be a pastor’s wife and learn to live your life authentic. We live our marriage in front of our congregation. The ups and downs, we get up and we talk about the difficulties in life. We talk about the good the bad that because we’re like everybody else but this is the job that we hold. We hope people are learning from what we’ve been through.

Clay: Now, Pastor Kelly, you’ve got many, many more principles we can get into and for people who are going, “Hey, I’m listening right now and tell you what, I don’t need to go to this. I don’t need to learn about this but my spouse does. I am perfect.’’ You have a ongoing series starting in January.

Pastor Goins: Correct, yes. You can bring them because it will help them tremendously and you might learn something. Starting in January at our church, Faith Church, we’re at 81st in Memorial, we’re going to start a series on relationships and marriage going through the month of January.

Clay: For the sake of time — Vanessa, you have something?

Vanessa: Just like we were saying, anything that you value, you’re going to protect. If you’ll take the time to attend maybe those

services at the church and find out ways that you can invest in your marriage and protect your marriage just like you would, a car that you love or a house. Then over time, you’re going to keep the value. I just think it’s so important. Anything that you value, think about it, you maintain and you protect it, you invested it.

Lisa: Yes. I —

Clay: Sorry, Lisa. I didn’t mean to cut you up. What were you saying?

Lisa: I was just saying there’s no better time than to start that now.

Vanessa: Exactly.

Lisa: Because you start to build a wall, if you let your car go and you’re not maintaining it like Vanessa is saying, it get’s more and more and more expensive. The more walls that you put up between you and your spouse or you let that grow, the thing with the wall is something has to happen to it. You have got to climb over it once it’s there. You’re going to have to knock it down. You’re going to have to work to get through that wall. But the sooner that you start and invest and focus the better off you are.

Clay: The next principle I want to get into, I want to come back to here — my job today is like a bowling alley, you got those bumpers and this is such a deep topic. I’ve got to just make sure that everybody who rolls the ball down the lane, the ball eventually hits something. Because we could spend hours on this. But principle number two is how does a relationship go from emotional to physical? I mean, how does that happen?

Here’s the fun factoid for you. This is from NBC News. It’s called Many Cheat for a Thrill, More Stay True for Love. Above one in five adults in monogamous relationships or 22% have cheated on their current partner. “Not in Tulsa. Not in Tulsa. Tulsa is a good city. No one would ever do that in Tulsa. That’s our city is like [unintelligible 00:41:41] they our listener. There are these people. They listen to the show. Why would you say. It’s people I can [unintelligible 00:41:48]. No, [unintelligible 00:41:49] that people listen to the show. It’s other places like [unintelligible 00:41:53] they listen to the show too.”

Anyway, the point is, so 22%. Nationally, the rate is even higher among married men and nearly half of people admit to being unfaithful at some point in their lives, nearly half. Oh no, Pastor Kelly, help us out. How does relationship go from emotional to physical?

Pastor Goins: I think those statistics are pretty interesting but you also have to understand that they’re not just talking about emotional relationships that are physical. They’re also talking about emotional relationshisps that aren’t physical, things that could happen on the internet, chat rooms, people that you’re around. It can go from bad to worse in these kind of situations.

Now, I put down several steps here. Again, this is kind of systemic thing. This begins to progress as we go through it. But let me just give you step number one. Something makes you lean away from your marriage and that’s an interesting thing because when you have conflict in your marriage that’s unresolved, when you have resentment or, “Hey, I’m not getting any of my needs taken care of.” It’s just that you begin to lean away from your spouse.

Clay: “She always smells like bacon.”


Pastor Goins: That would make you lean towards your spouse if they smell like bacon. That’s a plus.

Clay: I’m an anti-bacon male. [crosstalk] bacon. [unintelligible 00:43:06].

Pastor Goins: You would lean the other way. We need bacon cologne, we would be a lot closer. But you begin to lean away and that just means emotionally. You begin to look other places, notice other women, what would this be like, what would that be like. Women noticing other men, someone they work with. You begin to lean away from your spouse instead towards to your spouse.

Clay: Now, you talked about here step number two, there is an awareness of another person. What are you talking about?

Pastor Goins: Again, you begin to become aware of the other people in the room. You’re not focused on your spouse. You’re focused on other spouses or other people in the room that you think, “Wow, they sure look good. That would be nice,” wonder what —

Clay: I feel you look good. I’m telling you that. Now, we’re going to step number three. Innocent meetings open the door to flirting, what’s going on there?

Pastor Goins: Again, this is a progressive thing. Innocent meetings, you’re on a committee with this person or whatever and you begin to invest in this other person instead of the one that you’re married to.

Clay: Now step number four about in clean up. Meetings become intentional and planned by one of the people. What are you talking about?

Pastor Goins: Again, it’s progressive. We begin to see the next step and that now you’re planning things, you’re trying to schedule things, you’re putting this person on your team and you’re getting close to another person other than your spouse.

Clay: Vanessa, you had something you wanted to add there. What were you saying?

Vanessa: I see, it just keeps progressing all the way until fall blown affair.

Clay: Don’t say that. Negative.

Vanessa: What I just find so crucial is that the driving force behind this whole thing is the loss of connection between the husband and wife. If that is kept in then none of these steps even necessary or you hit the first one and you bring up, “Hey hon, what are we doing to safeguard our marriage or these are areas I feel like we’re vulnerable or my heart feels tender and I’m concerned about.” But being able to have those conversations so that you don’t go to step one, two, three, four, and so on. I just think that’s so crucial because it’s the driving force.

Clay: Now, Thrivers, when we come back, we’re getting to step five if you’re heading down the wrong path. You kind of go on, “Well, we’ve crossed the line. We’re not really dating. I’m not really cheating on my spouse. I’m just sort of emotionally — I’m just engaging. I’m sending a little text message. I’m just calling him on the cell phone and have a private meeting, no big deal.” Next thing we know, all of a sudden it gets weird.

Here’s the deal Thrivers, we want to help you affair-proof your marriage and why? Because it’s a pragmatic business show and I want to help you protect 50% of your net worth and because I want you to have you a successful life. It’s the Thrive Time Show. Stay tuned. Boom.


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Host: Broadcasting from the center of the universe, featuring optometrist turned entrepreneur, Dr. Robert Zoellner and US SBA Entrepreneur of the Year, Clay Clark. This is the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Hello, Thrive nation. Welcome back to your inspiration station. My name is Clay Clark and check it out, it’s not dark. We’re now joining you at noon. We used to be from 5:00 to 7:00. But you, the Thrive nation, you were requesting audio heaven and so the only thing we could do is we have to move to noon one because from 12:00 to 2:00. See, there’s Rush Limbaugh, on the other guys, you could listen to Rush Limbaugh. He’s going to go, “Well, today Bernie Sanders did this. We need to build a wall. Over here, we need to do this. Congress said this, we do this.” All things you cannot control.

Today, we’re talking about things that you can control. We’re teaching you how to build a successful marriage. “Well, I thought this was a business show?” The whole purpose of a business is the business is just a vehicle to help you build a successful life. When I built DJ Connection,, when I built Party Perfect, it is now Party Pro, when I built the Tulsa Bridal Association which is now a Wedding Show that you can go to every plan your day in a day at the Tulsa Wedding Show.

These are all things that I built. I built them not because I really care at all. There are some ladies who are listening go, “I thought he cared about my wedding?” No, I mean, it’s like the guy at chipotle, he doesn’t care super — he doesn’t care a whole lot about how you’re doing. He just want to sell you some chicken.

The thing is I built businesses because they are vehicle to help me get where I want to go. But the thing is where you want to go is you want to get, I would hope, to a successful life. Today, because Dr. Robert Zoellner is in Guatemala enjoying his holiday with some warm weather. We wanted to bring on some experts. We brought in my incredible wife, Mrs. Vanessa Clark. Vanessa, is it officially 15 years?

Vanessa: It is 15 years, yes.

Clay: How many kids do we have?

Vanessa: Five kids. It’s up to you, we’d have some more. [laughs]

Clay: I started forgetting their names after four. We have five, right?

Vanessa: We have five.

Clay: Okay. This is just in.We have many chickens as well. We brought in Pastor Goins and his incredible wife, Mrs. Lisa Goins. Now Pastor Goins, how many years have you been a pastor?

Pastor Goins: I’ve been a pastor for about 28 years.

Clay: Woah, and we’re talking about the four principles that you’ve discovered that the people need to know to affair-proof their marriage. We’re dwelling on principle number two. We’re kind of going through the gradual decline. Where if you’re not — our relationships is going to from emotional to physical if you’re not intentional, right? And so, step number five of that current gradual decline is while in a group setting, the two peoplelinger together in conversation, what does that mean?

Pastor Goins: We’ve been talking about this slow progression and now it’s gone from just identifying that there’s someone else out there and that other person is willing to now- you linger in conversation with this person, hey what do you think? You and your spouses want to sit together or you get in meetings with this person and you’re beginning to shift your emotions and your affections from your spouse to someone else.

Clay: Now step number six, conversations shift to feelings, what does that mean? I don’t even know what a feeling is.

Pastor Goins: This is a process that now it’s not so much business, its how are you doing today? And what do you think about this? And you don’t look–you look sad today, what’s going on? And you begin to invest emotionally in this other person.

Clay: Pastor Goins, you look beautiful. Your beard is just beautiful.

Pastor Goins: [laughs]

Clay: A lot of people listen to this show and they’re like, is Clay Clark, is he straight? He’s obsessed with the beard of Pastor Goins. Is that a natural thing? And we move on, there’s not really nothing we can say to that, we move on. So step number seven, the two people have isolated meetings under the disguise of legitimate purpose, what are you talking about?

Pastor Goins: Again, now they’re purposefully scheduling things so that they can be together, maybe trips that they’re taking or meetings that they’re taking to the places.

Clay: We need to go to [unintelligible 00:51:18] together to discover the meaning of life. It’s not– Vanessa, you have something–

Vanessa: Yes, this is, again, on having the boundaries. It’s so important, we were saying, to safeguard. If you had boundaries in place for work relationships, we don’t drive with someone of the opposite sex or you’re not going to go have meetings one-on-one with someone of the opposite sex, like a lunch date or anything. This safeguards-

Clay: Please go off. Please, please, please, Lisa, Pastor Goins, Vanessa, anybody wants to go off. I see this all the time because I’ve obviously been involved in the real estate business over the years. Fears and Clark, I’ve been involved– I’ve helped coach many businesses in real estate. In real estate this is what I hear, this is the alibi here, we were just driving together to get a listing. We’re just going together to go meet with someone about listing their house. It’s a vacant house, it’s just us, we got a little key card. We have a little key– Lisa, what’s the thing called that allows you to get into houses of people who have a house that’s listed, what’s that thing called?

Lisa: Yes, we have an electronic key now. It’s a Bluetooth key.

Clay: Bluetooth key, it’s not a big deal. The thing is, I see a lot of people justify we’re just driving in the same car to save gas. But Vanessa, I’ll start with you, please pontificate.

Vanessa: To each his own, I wouldn’t be okay with it but if you’re okay with it in your own marriage, who am I to say don’t do what you guys are okay with? But I would say, I would always err on the side of safeguarding your– it’s your marriage, there’s your children at stake, your vows. What’s it going to hurt to drive separately? Or if you’re consistently– I see if it’s a listing, you don’t do it all the time but if you’re driving with someone to meetings every week, you’re either always in relationships or anything like getting closer together or further apart.

Clay: Pastor Goins, you had a similar idea.

Pastor Goins: Yes, you have to establish boundaries within your marriage and within your own personal life and you have to establish them in your character. These are boundaries that you have to establish before you’re in a real estate situation where it’s more convenient to do this. You have to say, I make this vow to my wife or to the people in my life, I’m going to go this direction. I’m not going to be alone with people or with someone from the opposite sex, I’m not going to meet them for dinner, I’m not going to work late in the same office and if you have to safeguard– not that you are perverted and that you don’t have any kind of character–

Clay: You’re a sick freak, you’re a sick freak.

Pastor Goins: But it protects you. We just recently –and I’ll just throw this one out. We just recently had a situation where a college student was needing a place to stay and just– the Pastor, could we stay with you? And young girl and all that stuff and me and Lisa are gone most of the day but again, it’s fleeing the very appearance of evil. It’s being careful that something doesn’t happen, I don’t want to get in that situation, it’s not worth me losing my family, my marriage, my position and who I am over that. I have to make that decision before someone asks me if they can stay with me.

Clay: Miss Lisa, I want to ask you, what do you want to add here because you’ve obviously seen this happen?

Lisa: Well we, very early on in ministry, learned to protect ourself, boundaries, with the people that we would be around. Counselling sessions, Kelly would never counsel with a woman unless I was there. But I have learned that one of those more- not more important but very important things is to set boundaries in those conversations that you have with other people. Again, we’ve already established that we live real life so there are things that are going to happen in our house that I get irritated with and then Kelly gets irritated with about me. There was this unfortunate time, for my 40th birthday when I got a toaster but that’s neither here nor there. What I didn’t do is go–

Clay: Are you 40? Please.

Lisa: [laughs] Well over 40.

Clay: Wow.

Lisa: But what I didn’t do is find somebody, some person, some man, someone of the opposite sex to start to complain to about my husband and the things that maybe I wasn’t happy with because it starts as simple as that. Hanging onto the irritations about your spouse instead of letting them go, or having that connection and that way to work through those things so that your 41st birthday was a fabulous gift, no more electronics.

Clay: Now Vanessa, is it windy out there?

Vanessa: I’m trying to remember, I think I have lost it.

Clay: You have lost the epiphany.

Vanessa: It has blown away. I don’t know what it is.

Clay: All right, no stress, no stress. The next move, okay, is– December sixth, is the conversations have shifted to feelings. Step number seven, the two people have isolated meetings under the disguise of legitimate purpose but step number eight, the two people have isolated meetings for pleasure. Pastor Goins, what’s going on? Save us.

Pastor Goins: Now the meetings aren’t just for business related things, they’re dinner, they’re lets– can I help you go shopping? Now it’s not just business oriented, it’s that you really don’t mind– it’s progressed enough that you really don’t mind being seen with this person or emotionally investing in them.

Clay: Why don’t we go to the Wild Fork Pastor Goins and we could do–you could counsel me at Wild Fork? Place is out of town, why don’t we go to Oklahoma Joes, you and me? It could be the best thing in the world, your beard is real, it’s good. These things begin to happen, not cool. We move on. Step number nine, embraces become more affectionate and playful, touching begins.

Pastor Goins: Yes, longer hugs. How you doing? Instead of handshakes now there’s hugs. There’s brushing up against someone and just flirting around with them. What I think is interesting when you look at this list, this is the same process we went to win the hearts of our wives. This is what we did when we were single and we talked and we met together and I put on a little more cologne when I went to church that day because Lisa was going to be there.

Clay: I’m going to [unintelligible 00: 57:02 ], I’m there with my wife, I’m trying to make her hug like, oh, we’ve got a snow cone, we’ve got a vanilla cone, can we hug about this? Okay, you’re not ready for a hug, I get it. This is the dating process you’re saying.

Lisa: Yes and you are right, exactly what you said. It’s an obvious thing, I think so obvious I think, you probably as a wife, me as a wife, we work in offices, we see people, it hurts my heart. There have been people who I have taken out, on their own and nicely said, “What are you doing?”, because I feel like, with myself, I cannot live with myself and not say anything because at that point it is–you are flirting. You should not be flirting with anyone but your spouse and it’s just so hard to see when it goes on because it’s obvious. You see this person is basically courting someone who is not their spouse.

Clay: Now here’s the deal, my wife is–I tell you what, my wife is many, many things but one of the things that Vanessa has, she has a superpower of just seeing things as they are and we’re in a culture right now where its offensive, its politically incorrect, to call things as they are. Truth is offensive. For many people truth is offensive. I’m just telling you–

If you want to learn more about how to protect your marriage we’ve got a lot more steps we can walk you through, Pastor Goins can walk your through. Pastor Goins, where can people- if they say, I’m willing to invest a Sunday for a couple hours, every Sunday during the month of January, I just want to learn more– talk to me about how I can learn more about your church, how I can learn more about this subject.

Pastor Goins: We’re doing a super series coming up in January that’s called Passion and it’s going to deal with relationships and marriage. Not specifically marriage but also relationships because we realize that there are some people out there who are in relationships, that maybe they aren’t married but they’re working towards marriage and we’re going to do a deep dive into relationships the whole month of January at our church, Faith Church. We’re a great south Tulsa church at the corner of 81st Memorial here in Tulsa. Our services are at 10:30 AM and all the month of January we’re just going to deep dive into these relationships.

Clay: What’s your website? What’s your website?

Pastor Goins:


Pastor Goins:

Clay: I’m sorry, I was eating my baked beans at Oklahoma Joes, I was just over there, I wasn’t paying attention, what website was it again?

Pastor Goins:, we maybe need to get some Oklahoma Joe’s baked beans and serve them before service. Instead of donuts we’re going to have beans, maybe, the month of January.

Clay: I, literally, I go over there– My Vanessa knows I’m always there. Let’s go get a pint of beans, I just love them, they’re so good. Joe Davidson, he’s such a great sponsor, the food’s so good it hurts my soul.

Now principle number three, be sensitive to yours spouses’ emotional needs and meet them. I’m going to tell you this, if you’re listening right now and you’re listening to a business show, one of the things you’re going to find is in business you’ve got to get up every day and you’ve got to make your KPIs. Your KPIs are your key performance indicators. I’m going to give you an example.

Today in Elephant In The Room, it’s the Men’s Grooming Lounge. We have three locations, one at the 16th in Boston. We are moving right now, we’re expanding so we’re moving to 15th in Boston. We have the Broken Arrow location it’s 65th and the Lynn Lane. We’ve one at 91st at Yale and I’m telling you what–every day, the only thing I care about, you’re going, “Every day?”—the only thing I care about every day is how many people signed up for a $1 haircut?

How many people converted? How many people are happy? How many people complained? I’m obsessed with the key performance indicators. See? You send me a text, you send me a call, I don’t care who you are, all I care about is growing that business by rowing the people of Tulsa. We’re on the process of opening up one on Oklahoma City and one in Jenks. The business is doing very, very well thanks to great people like you.

Who’ve gone out there to Elephant In The Room and tried out the $1—by the way, through this seem right now, it’s $1 for your first haircut. Why have you not tried it out yet? Come on. It’s like a men’s grooming lounge, just like a Country Club for men’s hair. The point is–is it all I care about is KPI. You text me about how you feel, you text me about what’s going on, I don’t care. The problem is my wife sometimes will text me and I’ve got to focus on her because she is the love of my life. Stay tuned, learn how to balance it.

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Host: [music] You’re listening to the prime time show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Hello Tulsa, hello Green Country, hello people in Midtown, in Owasso, in Broken Arrow, in Tulsa, in Jenks, in Broken Arrow. Wow, he’s naming all the cities. This guy is a geographical wizard. My name is Clay Clark, I’m the former SPA Entrepreneur of the Year. I know the geography of Green Country, Sapulpa, Sand Springs. How are we doing? Welcome to the Thrive Time Show. Typically Dr. Robert Zoellner is here and typically we’re talking about how to grow a business–a successful business, but today we pivoted a little bit, we’re teaching you how to grow a successful life because he is out of town, he’s in Guatemala and I’m going, “How do I fill his shoes?

He’s got like a size like 27 shoe, it’s like Shaquille O’Neal shoe, how do I fill it?” What I did is I realize—you know what? We’re going to have to change the format, we’re going to have to transition from how they grow a successful business and how to grow a success–we’re going to have to move to how to grow a successful life.

And so I brought my incredible wife for 15 years, Mrs. Vanessa Clark. I brought Pastor Kelly on the show. This is a Tulsa’s pastor by the way, if you’re going, “Who’s Tulsa’s Pastor?” Pastor Kelly Goins. “Who’s Tulsa’s Pastor?” Pastor Kelly Goins. If you say it three times, it’s weird. “Who’s Tulsa’s Pastor?” Pastor Kelly Goins. He’s on the show today and he’s going to be teaching us specifically the four steps to affair-proof your marriage and he brought his incredible wife, she was daring enough to sneak in to the box that rocks, it’s Mrs. Lisa Goins.

Now Pastor Kelly we’re talking about principle number three. Principle number three which is be sensitive to your spouse’s emotional needs and meet them. What are you talking about?

Pastor Goins: Obviously, we all have needs, we all have things in life that we need and women’s needs are different from men. I mean men we’re incredibly simple.

Clay: Oklahoma Joe’s Baked Beans is all I need.

Pastor Goins: She needs affection and football. That is Brit’s really, I mean if we’ve got those three things we’re good.

Women are–there’s complexities, there’s things going on there that we will–I’m always looking for recipe of what Lisa likes. Okay, if I gave you a back rub, if I did all this stuff, it’s like I’m wanted to write it down and it changes every time. So it’s important for me to know what it is about her that she needs and she needs to know what it is about me that I need. So we all have needs and they’re different, men and women.

Clay: Now, I want to ask this because Vanessa you’ve obviously put up with me for 15 years. We met at college at Oral Roberts University and they have this thing called, “Get your roommate a date” where you get your roommate a date. The idea is your roommate gets you a date. I want to make sure we’re get this. Your roommate goes out there and so my roommate was not participating. He said, “I’m not going to do it.” So Jake Aldridge, he reaches out to you and he says, “Here’s the deal, I know a guy, he’s a good guy. You want to go on a date?” So Vanessa been–how many did you go on?

Vanessa: Everyone.

Clay: Yes. So Vanessa went on of all the guys are chasing my wife around at Oral Roberts University. But I’m like, “She will be mine. Yes, it’s going to happen” and I tricked her into marrying me, one day she woke up and realized her vision had been restored. She’s like, “Oh no. Oh, no, what happened? I thought I was going to marry Romeo when I married. A Man-bear-pig.” So seriously I want to ask you though because a lot of people are listening right now and they’re going, “I want to be sensitive to my spouse’s emotional needs and I want to meet them but I don’t even know what we’re talking about, I don’t even know how to even get there”.

Vanessa: For as a wife, I focused on meeting my husband’s needs. And of course Dr. Laura has the five A’s.

Clay: Give it to me.

Vanessa: I don’t even remember them. Affirmation, affection, I don’t know if there–[crosstalk]

Clay: Does sex start with an a?

Vanessa: This is her thing. You don’t deny sex. I don’t think that either spouse should ever deny sex. You should have sex every night, go home and have sex. People think that is controversial.

Clay: This is show for family, you sick freak.

Vanessa: I am sorry. Listen, I’m passionate about this because if I am wanting you to meet my needs for intimacy and to feel secure of which as a wife I feel secure by knowing that you love me, that I’m your one and only, that we are in this life together, that we are this “us” against the world. I will tell you, I will be heartbroken if I’m having a hard day or feeling vulnerable and if I come to you and you don’t meet that need–but in the same token, if you were to come to me and I say, “You know, I’ve just had too hard of a day.” You’re going to feel rejected, you’re probably going to turn around and sleep the other way, so that’s not very comfortable and then what’s it’s going to do? It’s going to tear us apart, we’re not building intimacy. So I think every opportunity you have to build intimacy, you owe it to your spouse and to yourself because you will be happy when you–[crosstalk]

Clay: You continue to take the show to a dirty direction. [crosstalk]

Vanessa: I’m sorry. I’m sorry. [crosstalk]

Clay: We’re trying to keep this appropriate for families, kids.

Pastor Goins: That’s positive.

Vanessa: Dr. Laura did it to me.

Clay: Okay, here we go. So basic needs of men versus women. Men are like honor, sex, friendship, domestic support, big respect. Women are going security, open and honest communication, nonsexual touching. Is that even a thing?

Vanessa: I mean, actually it’s going to try–[crosstalk]

Pastor Goins: Is that even possible? [laughs]

Clay: [unintelligible 01:07:50]

Pastor Goins: Shaking hands.

Vanessa: Don’t talk that way.

Clay: Big security, Lisa I’m going to pick on you because you’re going–I’m just trying to be referee, I’m just trying to be safe here. I don’t know how I end up on the show, what’s happening? So basic needs, let’s talk about women. Security, open and honest communication. Talk to me about this. What are women’s needs going on here?

Lisa: Yes, it’s just that the women’s needs are different from males’ needs and so we just have to figure those out about each other and Vanessa was right, if you can have that nonsexual touching and affection and you feel like it is sincere then often it does lead to sex. We want the sincerity that you really would give me a back rub and rollover go to sleep if that’s what we really needed.

Vanessa: I feel like though when you have that sexual connection now, it increases all intimacy because it’s like a circle comb thing. If we’re getting our needs met emotionally, of course we’re wanting to have sex and I think any woman wants to feel desired and feel that. On this flip side, as the husbands’ needs are met, they are so much more motivated to–what’s best part of the night? Being held afterwards. Being held afterwards we go to sleep.

Clay: Bake burnt, baked beans.

Lisa: Baked beans.

Pastor Goins: [laughs]

Clay: I’m reading [unintelligible 01:09:08] Oklahoma Just Baked Beans. [unintelligible 01:09:10] Incredible sponsored by Oklahoma Just Baked Beans.

Here we go. It says, “When a man”–by the way this is from the bestselling book, the John Gray, the bestselling author of Men Are from Mars, and Women Are from Venus. He says, “When a man can listen to a women’s feelings without getting angry and frustrated he gives her a wonderful gift. He makes it safe for her to express herself. Express yourself. The more she is able to express herself the more she feels heard”, you heard? “and understood and the more she is able to give a man the loving trust, yes, acceptance, yes, appreciation, yes, admiration, approval and encouragement than he needs.” Pastor Kelly, why are women process thing so differently than men? What’s going on?

Pastor Goins: It’s completely–I mean.

It really is different. For me to walk in at night and for Lisa to throw herself on me would be every man’s dream or at least would be mine, but for her, she needs me to come home and do the dishes and clean the house and care for a backrub. It’s just totally different. I’ve got to find out what her love language is and what she loves and do those things if I ever have any chance or any hope of intimacy. I can’t be looking out for my own needs, I have to look out for hers.

Clay: If you’re listening right now, thrivers, and you’re going, “Hey, check it out, I’m listening right now, lunch and I’ve turned down the volume pretty low because there’s other people listening.”

Vanessa: [chuckles] It’s getting crazy.

Clay: I’m going, “They’re talking about sex”, I said, “Pastor, what’s wrong with these? why were they– they’re talking about marriage–

Pastor Clay: God permitted it. [chuckles]

Clay: Yes they’re talking about intimacy, they’re talking about his need and her needs. Secretly I know my wife is upset because I am not doing things the right way, I realized that right now. I’m not being– we got married, I said yes, I said I do, I was wooing her and all of a sudden, my marriage is in the twilight.” When you come back you’re going to want to learn about principle number four.


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Host: Live, local, now. You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

Clay: Sorry, I didn’t realize you were there. I was eating some Oklahoma Joe’s baked beans, I didn’t realize we were live on the radio, are we live right now? Okay, we are. Welcome back to the Thrive Time Show, this is your audio dojo of mojo fo sho, my name is Clay Clark and I am a business coach.

I’m the SBA Entrepreneur of the year, and the father of five human kids? You mean you can have a successful business and five kids? And to further freak you out, we homeschool them. You home school them? Do you not care about other relationships? Do you not want your kids to be successful? And to further freak you out, we have chickens, but they can give kids diseases, I’ve heard– And to further freak you out, I don’t vaccinate my kids. Oh my gosh, this guy, what is he? he’s off the reserva– is he a prepper? Yes. We did buy a lot of end times prepper food, I’ll tell you what if I had more– If I could, we did. Vanessa how much end times prepper food did we buy?

Vanessa: Enough to last for 25 years.

Clay: Here’s the deal thrivers, if the end of the world will be right now, I’m 36 till I’m 51, I’m going to be just having as much dehydrated version of —

Vanessa: It’s good for 25 years, it’ll probably last a year if you don’t eat very much.

Clay: Yes. Seriously, I’m a human, I’m a dude. I got married, I met my wife at Oral Roberts University. We had this thing called “Get your roommate a date”. My wife is a cheerleader and this is the deal, I’m going to be honest, because the thing is we’re talking about the four steps you can take to really affair-proof your marriage and I just got to have a confession, I was going to college at Oral Roberts University and I told my roommate, one night we’re laying there, at the Oral Roberts University, you’re in a dorm, it’s all men’s dorms, you’re laying on your back, he’s got his bed, I got my bed, I’m looking up and it’s two in the morning, he’s like, “Bro, bro, you did good, your date bro, she is hot” and I’m going, “Yes bro, she is hot”.

Now I won’t tell you the other things we said because this is a family show, but I’m like, ” She is hot”, and he’s “Bro, why don’t you freaking marry her? What’s the deal with you? ” and I’m, “Because I’m– damn bro.” and he’s like, ” Bro, there’s nobody more attractive that’s ever going to come into your life. You realize that you’ve totally tricked her into– she’s dating you? You’re like a man-bear-pig. Yes, you’re into working out and you’re ripped right now but you’re dumb, you’re not that beautiful, you got to propose” and I’m going, “Mark, shut up dude, shut up”.

Then it clicked and I’m going “Holy crap, I am dating a very hot woman, so hot”, and so I ended up proposing to her, next thing you know we’re married and then I discover we get married, we’re at the Fountain Crest Apartments at 71st at Lewis, right behind the Merrion Hotel and I’m realizing we’ve been married for–

Vanessa: You didn’t marry me because I was hot, though, that’s not why you married me.

Clay: Okay, because you have sage-like wisdom. You’re super-smart. My wife is like a Yoda but she’s beautiful. The thing is, we’ve been married for 12 hours and we realized things are happening differently than we thought because my parents, the way they did in Minnesota is within– after you get married is you open up wedding gifts with your spouse. Was that weird to you?

Vanessa: Yes. You just need to establish your own traditions and we didn’t.

Clay: Come on, was that weird?

Vanessa: Yes. It’s six in the morning of the day after I’m married, his parents are at our door. That was not expected.

Clay: [laughs] Honestly, it was a little bit scary for you?

Vanessa: Yes, I took it like a champ and then when they left I said, “We can never do that again”, and you said, “We would never do that to our children”.

Clay: Yes and then we go back to our apartment–

Vanessa: Because it was 10 in the morning probably but we–

Clay: We come back to the Fountain Crest Apartment and it’s just, all this time we realized, “Oh no, we’re married.” and the thing is, now we’ve been married 15 years, we’ve learned some things over the years but we’re not perfect. What we wanted to do today is we want to bring on some people who really know a thing or two about marriage and consulting couples who’ve gone on to have successful marriages, they’ve also seen some predictable pitfalls. We brought on Pastor Kelly Goins and his incredible wife, Mrs. Lisa Goins. Pastor Kelly, how long have you been married to your incredible wife there?

Pastor Goins: It will be 25 years in May.

Clay: How many minutes, how many hours, how many weeks? How long was it until you realized you’re going, “Oh no, she’s different than I thought she was”.

Pastor Goins: I don’t remember having that a-ha moment. Really, she’s always been awesome. I’ve been on my honeymoon for —

Clay: When did you screw up? How long until you’ve screwed up?

Pastor Goins: [laughs] I don’t know. Bae? You’ve got a story there?

Clay: Is he been on Prozac cloud-awesome?

Lisa: He’s pretty awesome. There has been some bumps in the road.

Clay: We’re talking about principle number four, it’s, How do affairs happen? Pastor Goins, how do they happen? Walk us through this.

Pastor Goins: This has been a process that we’ve been going through but now we’re at the end of it and affairs happens when you begin to invest more of your time in other people that you do your spouse and what’s happening is , now your work has become bigger than your spouse or your ministry or whatever you do has become bigger and now you’re investing more time in other places and other things than your spouse. She has to be the number one thing in your life that you invest in. In my life–

Clay: Can you put that again? you said your wife has to be the number one thing you invest in?

Pastor Goins: Number one thing. God has to be first priority-wise, my wife has to be second priority-wise, because if I lose my wife I lose everything else, for me.

Clay: You’re saying a lot of profound things quickly because you’ve been around this, you’ve seen this. You just said if you lost your wife, what?

Pastor Goins: I lost everything. I’ve lost my family. I’ll lose my desire to– and a lot of people think, “Well, hey I’m a self-made man, I’m a millionaire” and I’m not. Some people can say that “I’ve done it all by myself”, but when you lose your spouse– look at Tiger Woods. He had everything. He was the greatest golfer in the world, all of a sudden he loses his relationship with his wife. He begins to invest in other people and they split apart and he has never been the same. She was the greatest golfer in the world, not him maybe.

Vanessa: I would love to point out, as you know we have many people– like I said, this is a business show, usually, who’ll listen to this, a lot of times, their motivation is, “I don’t want to lose half my money” but they’re not looking at, like you said, it’s not about losing half your money, it’s about your relationship in your life and maybe you don’t even have that relationship with your spouse if that ‘s what you’re worried about losing. You’ve got to cultivate that relationship and that’s the foundation of what everything is built of.

Pastor Goins: If you’re worried about losing half of your money in a divorce, you’re more married to your money than on your wife.

Vanessa: That’s what I’m saying if that’s what your motivation is, that’s where the problem is.

Clay: Hey we’ve got a lot of business people listening to the show. Be nice.

Vanessa: They can have a great marriage and a great business but they’re going to have to make the decision to do so and invest in their marriage in making that like you said, the number one after God in meeting those needs with each other.

Clay: I want to ask Lisa this because Lisa is a Pastor’s wife, you’ve obviously seen a lot of couples come into the church, great people, and their marriage just blows up. Talk to me about, where do you see —

Clay: or you’ve sat back, and you go, “I can see it drifting.” Have you ever thought where you go, “Oh gosh.”

Lisa: It happens a lot. We can point it out. We see it a lot. Maybe the wife will start coming to church on her own with the kids because the husband has decided that he needs to put some extra time in at his job to provide for his family. Then you realize that your priorities, very quickly, can be skewed and not where that focus should be. One of the main things I hear from women as one of their complaints in their marriage is that they really want their husband to rise up and be a spiritual leader within their family. When we see that begin to break down, we can start watching that family begin to disintegrate.

Clay: Vanessa, you had something you want to add there.

Vanessa: I think it comes back to, like she said, why is the reason that you married your spouse? Was it because you wanted to be provided for?

Pastor Goins: Yes. Absolutely, both.

Vanessa: No. I think you married them for the emotional…You wanted to be desired, and you wanted that emotional connection. That is the only thing. That’s the glue to hold your marriage together. You can go provide for yourself. You can find another man to provide for you. You know what? If it’s about someone taking care of the house, I can hire a cleaner or someone to make the meals. What is the one thing you have that’s keeping your marriage together? It is that connection.

[background music]

Clay: Thrivers, when we come back, we’re going to teach you how to take your marriage back. If you’ve realized your marriage is not where you want it to be, we’re going to teach you how to take your marriage from where you are to where you want to be. Stay tuned. Thrive Time Show, boom.

[background music]

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Host: You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show on Talk Radio 1170.

[background music]

Clay: All right Tulsa, welcome back. It’s the day after Christmas — the day after Christmas. If you’re listening right now and you’re being honest, I’m going to tell you what, you probably bought your wife…You probably made a mistake of buying your wife a functional gift.

If you’re man, right now, you can’t buy your wife a functional gift. I’m going to tell you what, the first year where my wife and I were married…By the way, my name is Clay Clark, I’m a business coach the former SBA Entrepreneur of the Year. Most importantly, I’m a man-bear-pig.

I tricked my wife into marrying me. I remember the first we were married, I went over to Bed Bath & Beyond, and I bought a blender [laughs] because I knew she would blend me some sweet smoothies. I bought her the stainless steel whatever. What is in the pans now that I can’t buy a certain–

Vanessa: Teflon.

Clay: Teflon is apparently– Why is it bad for you?

Vanessa: Bad aluminum.

Clay: Aluminum is bad for– that’s basically– I remember why now it stinks. I went to Victoria’s Secret. Did I not buy you every lotion they had?

Vanessa: Every single one.


Clay: You were like, “Does it have a gift per se?”

Vanessa: I didn’t ask you, because I don’t believe in returning things that people get you, but then I went on my own and said, “How much they’re worth? I can buy stuff. These are nice, Victoria’s Secret.”

Clay: Here’s the deal. Christmas is sort of an anticlimactic thing for many people. You go out there. You work. You save. You buy things. You have a sort of a hollow Easter bunny experience where you’re like, “Oh my gosh.”

You just got married, or you’re married, and you bought these things. You feel like these things…You buy these things. These things are going to make you a great marriage. You buy these things. You go online. You get the Shari’s Berries. Boom, you’re going to have a happy marriage. You get a gift card, and express, boom, you have a happy marriage.

You’re a real American. You go on do a Victoria’s Secret. You buy a bunch of stuff for yourself, but it’s code for your wife. The point is — You’re going, “Marriage is not the one I thought it would be. It’s just not going the way I thought it would be.”

You’re going, “Gosh, it’s a day after Christmas, and I’m feeling like my marriage isn’t going the right direction.” I’m telling you what, we have the show for you today if you’re just tuning in.

We’re talking about the four principles you need to know to affair proof your marriage. You’re going, “I thought you were an entrepreneur.” Yes, that’s right. That’s why I’m not qualified to get into this subject.

I brought my incredible wife of 15 years onto the show today. I brought a pastor, Kelly Goins. I brought on his incredible wife, Mrs. Lisa Goins. Pastor Goins, let’s talk about this concept about, how do affairs happen? What else do you want to share here, my friend?

Pastor Goins: Again, this whole process — We’ve kind of talked about this process and how affairs happen. They start slowly in relationships. You begin to invest more in other people than you invest in your own spouse. They begin to kind of develop slowly until they’ve spun out of control.

Business coach, Clay, I’ll add for what you said. It’s not just when we get to that point in our marriage when we’re younger that we think, “Oh, oh. What did I get myself into?” Sometimes, it can be years after our marriage, and the kids are gone, and things begin to change job wise, and things slow down, metabolism slow down. You begin to think, “This isn’t what I signed up for.” Then midlife crisis happens. Those kinds of things go through also. What I’m seeing is that, when you begin to invest more times in other things or other people than you do on your spouse, affairs are going to happen. We’ve talked about how affairs happen.

This very last one thing I want to talk about is just, what do you do if you find yourself in a situation where you’re investing more time — You know you’re in trouble. You need help. You don’t know who to call out to. Here’s three things you can do. Number one, stop flirting with the women who’re around you.

Clay: You said stop flirting with the women who are around you. The profundity of what you just said is a little bit uncomfortable. Are people flirting with the women around them?

Pastor Goins: You may not notice that you’re doing that, but when you look more forward — men or women, either way, when you look more forward to spending time with someone at church, or at the office, or at the kids’ softball game, or whatever that you do for your wife, then that’s an issue. Then that becomes a problem of affairs getting ready to happen.

Clay: Now Thrivers, if you’re listening right now and you’re going, “That’s me. I have made this mistake.” Guess what? The first couple on the history of the planet–.now, you correct me biblically speaking.

Pastor Goins: Okay.

Clay: If Adam and Eve, God says, “Hey homies. Don’t touch the tree. Don’t get into the tree of knowledge. Don’t eat the fruit.” They broke the rule. First brothers ever, we had Cain and Abel?

Pastor Goins: Yes.

Clay: Did one of them kill the other one?

Pastor Goins: Yes.

Clay: People screw up, okay? If you want to cast the first stone, you’re sinless, right? If you’re feeling bad, you’re going, “Hey, I made a mistake.” It’s okay. We want to help you turn impavid. Turn incorrect. It’s not yet we’re are a perfect person with the ideals. We want to go ahead and go, “Oh oh.” Don’t write it down because probably, somebody in your office will see it. Just go mental note, “That’s me in white when it was someone of the opposite sex.”

Vanessa: What do you do if you see this happening with a spouse? Do you confront it? What if they say they don’t care?

Clay: You’re saying, what if you see your spouse flirting with someone else?

Pastor Goins: I think you have, to be honest enough and open enough with them that you confront them on that or talk to them about that. I mean, this is an uncomfortable conversation to say, “Why were you hugging them? I notice — why are you texting this person or that person more?” A lot of times guys just say, “Hey, we’re very friendly. We just have that outgoing personality. There’s a girl that I like to give a hard time to, or whatever. Same thing with women. What happens is, it may not be a conscious decision that I make, but it’s an emotional decision that I begin to invest in other people instead of ourselves.

Clay: You’re saying be candid. It might be uncomfortable. Rule number two. What’s rule number two?

Pastor Goins: It’s going to be uncomfortable. The things you have to do is, you have to break off that relationship.

Clay: “Oh, Billy. Billy is such a good guy. I love Billy. He always drops off the printing supplies on time. I didn’t realize it was an emotional affair. I guess I hugged Billy longer than I should.”

Vanessa: Your relationship with your spouse can then make–if you’ve got a decision to make, basically, you can either continue with your spouse, and this must be broken off, or eventually, this will be destroyed for the sake of that.

Pastor Goins: I’m not saying that you can’t have a working relationship with someone. If you’re the boss, you need to make that decision. “Okay, we need to stop doing this. I need to have someone else.” They may not be as good as what this person is in doing the function, but I’ve got to protect myself. I’ve got to set those boundaries around myself to protect me, my marriage, my business, my family, everything of what I–my character. It changes everything when we get involved in this.

Clay: Pastor Kelly, the next move, what’s that?

Pastor Goins: The final one is to turn your heart back toward your spouse. In Genesis, the Bible says, “Forsaking all others.” I’m going to be solely that person’s lover. I’m going to be solely that person’s commitment in —

Pastor Goins: We have to forsake everything else and we have to turn our hearts towards our spouse and focus upon them and the other things in our life, we’ve got to push aside. Now, obviously its a business show. We’re not trying to get rid of the business aspect but in any good business person, there is a great relationship with the wife and if not, that business isn’t going to last very long.

Clay: Now, Napoleon Hill, one of the best selling author of Think and Grow Rich, the best selling self help book of all time, he said, one of the number one reasons of failure in business is that people are basically don’t have a good relationship with their spouse. So, Lisa is Pastor Kelly, perfect know but talk to me, just brag on them a little bit. I know this guy, he cares about you, he loves on you. He really does speak highly of you. Why is it so important for you — I mean, talk to me about what are the things he does intentionally that you know this guy, he really cares about our marriage. How do you know that he cares about your marriage?

Lisa: He’s actually really amazing at marriage. When we sit down with couples and they need some counselling, I’m thinking they just really need to listen to him because he’s got this figured out. He invests in me all the time. He’ll even ask me sometimes, am I telling you you’re too beautiful too much? He really understands that need for affirmation and security and love and affection in my life and he gives that very freely and that’s been amazing thing that has helped our marriage to remain strong.

Clay: Now, Pastor Goins for people who want to learn more — I love what I’m hearing today but I want to get in more. I want to kind of sneak, I want to go to church. I might get my spouse to go to church with me. How can they learn more about — Tell us about what you have going on in January there at Faith Church.

Pastor Goins: We are doing kind of a deep dive into super series that we are doing the month of January at Faith Church and its called passion and we’re dealing with relationships. So, whether you’re married or engaged or even just have a significant other in your life and you’re in a committed relationship, I’m going to give you principles to help you understand from the word of God and then just from practical experience how it is to make that marriage even stronger.

Clay: What is your website, my friend?

Pastor Goins:,

Clay: What is the location of your facility?

Pastor Goins: We are at 81st in Memorial, the north east corner, right next to Quick Trip. We’ve got a big sign right now. It’s only going to be there for maybe another few weeks. But a big sign that says “Don’t just walk by Faith, stop in and say ‘Hi’ And come by and say ‘Hi’ on Sunday mornings at 10:30.”

Clay: Thrivers, you’ve got four choices you can do. One, you can go to church over there at Pastor Goin’s church or you can go, you know, I’m going to Quick Trip. I’m just going to go there and eat some taquitos. I know they’re having service over there, I’m just going to eat some taquitos, you could do that. Option number two is you can go, I’m going to try, it’s the world’s best business school where they care about your life and your business and have a great business coach.

By the way, we have a scholarship program so it’s $19 a month. Just sign up for, the world’s best school. But if you can’t afford it, if you spend $18 too much this month at McDonald’s for those really incredible french fries, then you can still choose your own price. “I can choose my own price? This sounds like a socialist communist experiment.” You can. Why? Because I’m probably a little bit too caring for my own benefit. Option number two, you can sign up for a one-on-one business coaching. You want to learn how to start to grow a business, you can have one-on-one business mentorship it’s just in. Or move number three, you could sign up for a in person conference. It’s always three, two, one Boo–

[01:33:39] [END OF AUDIO]


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