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Some shows don’t need a celebrity narrator to introduce the show, but this show does. In a world filled with endless opportunities, why would two men who have built 13 multi-million dollar businesses altruistically invest five hours per day to teach you the best practice business systems and moves that you can use? Because they believe in you, and they have a lot of time on their hands. They started from the bottom, now they’re here. It’s the Thrive Time Show, starring the former U.S. Small Business Administration’s Entrepreneur of the Year, Clay Clark, and the entrepreneur trapped inside an optometrist’s body, Dr. Robert Zilmer. 8 kids co-created by 2 different women. 13 multi-million dollar businesses. We started from the bottom, now we’re here. We started from the bottom and we’ll show you how to get here. Started from the bottom, now we’re here. We started from the bottom, now we’re here. We took life, started from the bottom, and now we’re at the top. Teaching you the systems to get what we got. Colton Dixon’s on the hooks, I break down the books. See, bringing some wisdom and the good roots. In a world where Gallup now reports that nearly 70% of employees are disengaged, how do the best managers use recognition to engage their people, to retain their people, and to accelerate performance? On today’s podcast, the New York Times bestselling authors and the speakers of choice for American Express, WD-40, Johnson & Johnson, Avis, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, and the United States Army and other massive organizations Chester Elton and Adrian Gostick stopped by to teach us how to manage Millennials, how to create a healthy corporate culture, and how to increase employee engagement Some shows don’t need a celebrity narrator to introduce the show, but this show does Two men, eight kids co-created by two different women, 13 multi-million dollar businesses. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Thriving Timeshow. Yes, yes, yes, and you guessed it, yes. Thrive Nation, on today’s show, I am super excited to be interviewing today’s guests, Adrian Gostick and Chester Elton, the best-selling authors and the tag team duo, Dr. Z, who now simply refer to themselves as the Carrot Guys. The Carrot Guys. What’s up, Doc? Hey, we’ve got to come up with a cool name like that. I mean, I know Batman and Robin’s already taken. The Carrot Guys Part 2? I mean, the Celery Guys. The Celery Guys. Celery. Throughout their career, the Carrot Guys have become number one New York Times bestselling authors. They’ve been featured on USA Today, Wall Street Journal. Their Carrot Pit principle was a book that I read years ago, and it helped me really change the culture at my company at the time,, which is one of the largest wedding entertainment companies on the planet. And so now without any further ado, Adrian and Chester, welcome on to the Thrive Time Show. Chester, how are you, sir? You know, if it gets much better, it won’t be fair. Thanks for asking. Adrian, do you want to one-up Chester there with a more clever response? I couldn’t possibly want to up Chester on there. Clay, Dr. Z, just thrilled to be on the show. Thanks. All right. Well, my first question coming in hot is for Mr. Adrian. And, Z, I’m sure you’ve seen the stats. 71% of employees, according to Gallup, are now disengaged from the workplace. Boo! Not engaged. Now, you and I, between the two of us, we have hundreds of employees, and you know this, it’s a constant challenge to engage people. So I’d really like to start with you, Adrian, and ask you about this. How big of a problem is employee disengagement from your perspective? Well, you know, we all know, you know, we’ve probably all been there at some point in our lives where we just, you know, there’s just something about the work experience that’s disengaging us. Typically, it’s our manager. It’s, you know, the old saying, people don’t leave companies, they leave their supervisors. What we’re finding in our new research is that it’s not just about engaging people anymore because engagement numbers just aren’t moving. What we found is that you also have to enable people, you have to support them and empower them and you also have to keep their energy levels high. Otherwise, this idea of engagement just doesn’t work without these accelerators of enablement and driving energy within our teams. You know, Chester, I want to get your take on this. Why are you guys so passionate about this subject of improving employee engagement? There are so many other topics out there. You guys are brilliant authors, great researchers. Why are you two so locked in to this concept of employee engagement? You know, it’s such a great question and we’ve, you know, looked at that for almost 20 years now. And the fact is, is that, you know, you don’t have separate lives anymore. You’ve got a life that incorporates work and everything else. We’ve all got smartphones. We’re all working 24-7. And this idea of when you’re happily engaged and motivated at work, you’re happy in your personal life. A lot of really interesting studies done even at the University of California prove that out, that you know, this disengagement in the workplace is causing dysfunction in every other part of your life. So, you know, at the Culture Works, we talk about we make people better. We make people better leaders. We make better teammates. And that translates into just making them better people. And you know what? The reason we’re so passionate about it is the world just needs better people. And we deserve to be able to go to a workplace where we can believe what we do matters, we make a difference, and when we make that difference it’s noticed and celebrated so that we can take all that good positive energy home and build better families and better communities. So that’s our passion. It starts at the workplace. We spend so much time at work. When that goes bad, everything goes bad and that’s why we’re so passionate about it. Okay guys, I want to go with Adrian for this next question here. Adrian, I want to get Dr. Z’s take on this as well, but I’ll start with you, Mr. Adrian. You guys have done so much research throughout your career about corporate culture. And Dr. Z has invested in and helped start a bank, an optometry clinic, an auto auction, a variety of companies. And it seems like a lot of business owners that I have met, they just struggle to ever grow beyond themselves because they can never seem to figure out how to create a corporate culture that’s not dysfunctional. So Adrian, what advice would you have for all the business owners listening out there who by default have a dysfunctional corporate culture? What kind of proactive steps should they be taking to create a positive corporate culture? That’s an interesting question, too. Sometimes people ask, oh my gosh, you must, you know, Chester, you and Adrian must go into some really diseased cultures, some really bad places. The point is, no, they never call. And so the leader you’re describing never calls us. What we get is calls from leaders who are really trying to build a good culture and they just need a little bit more help to inculcate the ideas or get things going. And so you’re right, there’s a lot of leaders we’ll meet along the way that say, yeah, culture, you know, that’s something that they, you know, that it just kind of develops or they don’t really worry about it. You know, a great leader once told us, he said, you know, if you don’t develop a culture, don’t worry, a culture will develop itself. Now, it won’t be the one you want, but you’re going to get a culture no matter what. So, you know, our point is you might as well define this in a really positive, thriving way. And that’s what our work’s been for the last couple of decades. Was it anecdotal or do you guys have like some hard facts behind? Because that’s an interesting way to look at it. You’re like, if an employee’s happy, his home life’s awesome. And I always kind of found it to be the opposite of that. So I’m kind of trying to wrap my head around that, about building better families by making someone happy around the water cooler. That’s an interesting concept. Could you guys have some facts and studies on that? Have you really looked into that? Because I always thought it was kind of the other way around, which came first, you guys were saying the egg, and I’m saying the chickens, I guess is what I’m trying to say. So can you expand on that a little bit more? Because I’ve always found if you have someone that’s happy and has a happy household, they’re much better employees, the general rule of thumb, than someone that comes from a dysfunctional home and they’re fighting, not getting along, thinking about getting a divorce, I mean on and on and on. Talk about that. Break that down just a little bit more. Well, you know, let me jump in here. This is Chester. It was interesting. We are asked to speak at a lot of conferences, literally all over the world. And in one conference, we were sitting there and the question went out to the managers and to the employees, what do you want from your leader? And one of the things that really spurred a lot of this thinking for us is one guy said, look, I don’t want my manager just to help me be more productive and be a better worker. I want my manager to help me become a better person. And as you take a look at the way business is done today, it is so all encompassing that those drivers and the ability to grow and develop at work is becoming more and more key. Now, there actually was a wonderful study done at the University of California. I can never say her name right. Andrea is much better. Yeah. Sonja Lomblowski. Yeah. Oh, nice. Lomblowski. Who did a deep dive and that was her conclusion that happy at work, you’re literally 150% more likely to be happy in your personal life. Now, I don’t disagree with you that it can be reversed, you know, that when you’re happy at work, you tend to go and bring, or happy at home, you tend to bring that happiness into the workplace. What our research tells us, though, is if you are intrinsically, you know, happy in your home and you’ve got a great personal life and you go into a toxic workplace, you’re not likely to stay. You’re not likely to stay. I can see that. You’re going to find a culture that fits your values, that fits your version of happiness. Our job has always been, how can we take some of those cultures that are good and make them extraordinary? As Adrian said, toxic cultures don’t call us because they don’t care. That’s why they’re toxic. Now, Adrian, this question is for you, coming in hot. Chuck, can I ask Adrian the rude questions yet? Am I approved to do that now? I mean, that’s what we’re known to do. Okay, here’s the deal, Adrian. When doing some research about you guys, I mean, you have been asked to speak to some of the most massive companies in the world. I mean, huge companies have called you guys and asked you to deliver keynotes, and this is the question that I would… Chuck, I’m not asking this. This is on behalf of other people. Yeah, some other people out there. See, I would never ask this kind of question. Of course not. You’re not rude like that. But Adrian, why in the world would anybody pay you guys copious amounts of cash to come in and talk about corporate culture? How can you help the companies out there? You know, that’s what my wife asked me, too. You know, as I tell her what we talked about, she goes, well, don’t people get this? I was like, it’s amazing. No, they don’t. This is common sense that’s uncommonly practiced. Now, we also have a lot of data we bring in. You asked about data earlier. We’ve almost a million people now with survey partners that we’ve interviewed over the last 20 years. So that’s one thing. They bring us in because we’ve got a lot of data that it’s very hard to argue with the data. And we’ve worked with a lot of companies where we’ve seen things that work and things that don’t. So we also have this built up, this expertise over the years that help organizations really hone in on what they’re going to focus in on their culture. And the thing is, every culture is different. If we go into Southwest Airlines, it’s very different than working with GE. And both have lots of challenges, both have struggles, and yet their paths forward are going to be very different. So the thing is with culture and employee engagement, there are things that we can do, but we’ve got to figure out what will work within our own cultures. OK, so let me give you an opportunity here, Chester, to name drop. You’ve spoken to some big companies. Can you name drop some of the bigger companies you’ve spoken to? I mean, just kind of tee up a few of the names, because you guys have spoken to really the who’s who in American business. Do you want to just name drop a couple of names for us. Sure. I mean, we’re currently doing a lot of work with American Express, you know, in their leadership development and their culture there, a wonderful culture. I’m going to name drop a company that’s not huge, but that you’re going to love because you use their products all the time. WD-40. Oh, yes. I know you got a can somewhere, right? Yeah. Multiple. We’re American. We’ve got a can of that. There you go. What’s the old adage? You know, when you go to college, you get a spool of duct tape and a can of WD-40, because if it’s moving and it shouldn’t, you duct tape it, and if it’s not moving and it should, you WD-40 it. That’s all you need. And they have this remarkable culture, you know. It’s really interesting. You talk about noble causes, they make me laugh. You know, they had a researcher, he said, so why do you do what you do? What’s your noble cause? And he goes, oh, it’s easy. World peace through lubrication. Nice. Nice. Okay. So you guys have spoken to American… Z, have you ever heard of that company, American Express? You ever heard of those guys? I’m trying to think. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I’m trying to think. I feel like other people might have mentioned them. I don’t know. I don’t know. WD-40. Now, that’s sort of a bigger name that folks could identify with at home there? Well, Johnson & Johnson is a good one. We’ve done some work with Avis Budget Rental Car. We did some really fun work with Bank of America. Adrian, you’ve got a bunch that you’ve worked with. Oh, yeah. Morgan Stanley, Danaher, which is a… Danaher is a… You probably maybe never heard of them or a lot of your listeners, but they’re the third fastest growing stock over the last 30 years. A phenomenally run organization that had us come in and help with employee engagement. Tom Joyce, their CEO, runs a very well-run organization all about Kaizen, making things faster. But what Tom told us was that we need to get a heart. And that’s what we’d like to come in and do, is help provide that heart to organizations to give them that next little lift of performance. And you know, we’ve done some fun government work. We work with the state of New York, the state of Michigan, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office is one of our favorites. It’s the only government agency that’s actually profitable. We take great pride in being a part of that culture. They actually write a check to the government instead of asking for money from the government. So yeah, the U.S. Army, we did a bunch of stuff with their medical systems and so on. So no, it’s really been rewarding. I’ll tell you, there are very few companies, you know, that have that kind of name recognition. At some point, we haven’t gotten to speak with or work with some leaders or help them develop their culture. It’s given us this really interesting view of, you know, how does culture work in a for-profit, non-profit government and so on. And you know, what was really been gratifying is that these principles about good governance and good leadership and good culture, they really are universal because no matter what industry or business you’re in, if you’ve got people, people are people, and the principles apply. So it’s been really fun. That’s a perfect segue into my question for you guys. Eric Chup here, you guys were talking to some big names right there, and we’ve got a lot of clients that we work with or listeners out there that are small business, one man, one woman show and they’re looking to expand. I got a two part question since we got two guests. Two part question. Two parter. Chester, first question’s for you. Adrian, you’ll come next. Chester, what’s one action step or the most important thing someone should do as they’re getting ready to hire their first employee? They’re just a solopreneur right now. They’re going to move to the next step. What’s one important piece of information or action item for that person? Yeah, you know, I’d really make sure that your values are aligned. You know, that really what your vision of success and their vision of success is the same. Because you know, you’re doubling the size of your company. You’re going from one to two. And make sure that you’ve got that connection. I will tell you too, particularly for a small company, not only do you want to make sure that they have the right resume and the right capabilities and so on, you want to make sure that you’ve got those values aligned and don’t discount this. Make sure you like them because you’re going to be spending a lot of time with these people and don’t downplay likability. If you’re going to spend a lot of time with somebody, please make sure you like them and you like to be around with them and you admire them and they’ve got qualities that you can respect. You know, over and above all the basics, which is, you know, can I trust them? You know, I’m pretty sure they’re not a serial killer, you know, stuff like that. That’s huge. I want to say this. Our new hire has been very good to work with. His propensity to rip the heads off of horses is a little bit disturbing. He’s the kind of guy I like to work with. I’m scared to write him up. I worry about his references to concrete shoes, but I know he really is good at coding. I think a lot of people, though, honestly, will hire people that are almost borderline psychopaths on their first round because they don’t know what to look for and they want to be politically correct. They don’t want to be judgmental. Is that a question of the question you can ask, though? Are you a psychopath? I mean… Yes, actually, I am. I do typically pull the wings off of flies and torture rats with a hacksaw, but that’s all I had to do. Never any people, just always animals. No, no, no. Always animals. Wings stay on the people. Okay, Adrian, part two of the question here. More cowbell. Let’s just flip the script, and if you’re a new employee hiring into a small company with a culture that’s being defined, what’s something that you should focus on or you should do as the employee to help that founder or owner create the culture they desire? Ooh. Yeah, and this is another great question. You know, one of the things is, coming back to what Chester was saying, you’ve got to make sure there is some alignment. So one of the questions you could ask too is around, you know, tell me about the vision of this company. You know, get us three simple questions that I want to know as a new employee going in. You know, who are you? You know, what do you build here? What do you serve here? So who are you? Where are you going? And how are you going to get there? So really three simple questions and I know it sounds really basic but it’s amazing how often an entrepreneur won’t be able to answer those questions in a coherent way. They may ramble for 30 minutes but that’s what we need to know. So who are you? What’s your mission? Where are you going? What’s your vision? What do you want to accomplish? How do you want to change the world and how are you going to get there in those values? So if I’m hiring on and you really haven’t defined those, I’m going to be a little bit more confused or a little bit more nervous about signing on. I want to make sure those align with what I want to accomplish as an employee as well. I will say this, Z, and these guys are saying it much more articulately than I could say this, but through reading the work of Chester and Adrian over the years, I just can tell you employees want to have a carrot. They want to know there’s kind of a win associated with spending the vast majority of their waking hours working for somebody. They want to know, I’m going to like working for this person, or I’m not going to like it at all. But that ambiguousness, see that vanilla, that vagueness, nobody wants to work for the ambiguous, vague company. I want to get your take, Zee. At the optometry clinic, when you were recruiting your first employees, back before you became huge. Huge! Huge! And beautiful. See, before you became huge and beautiful. How did you recruit your first few employees? What kind of stuff did you do to let people know that you were… Like a Greek god dipped in pumpkin latte. That’s my goal. No, seriously, how did you do it? When you started off as an optometrist, you’re now one of the top optometrists in Oklahoma. How did you do it, though? Because you know this, Dr. Zellner and Associates is what the sign said, but there were no associates. It was just you. Come on, man. It’s a secret. Seriously, enlighten us. It’s a secret. Well, just what they’re saying. I mean, you try to find people of high character, high morals, good work ethic. I have the 5 As of all my employees that I kind of think about whenever I’m hiring them, and that is the attendance, appearance, accuracy, attitude above and beyond. And it’s almost impossible to sort all that out in an interview. I mean, because I know it sounds crazy. A lot of times people will say things they think they want you to hear instead of the truth of the matter. So I’m a big proponent, and I don’t know, maybe get these guys to take on it. I’m a hire fast, fire fast kind of guy. You know, sometimes you make a mistake and you hire someone that doesn’t fit the culture that you’re trying to build, they don’t fit. And the idea that you have to keep them on because you hired them for a long time and try to fix them, versus replacing them with someone who better fixes your culture is something that I did early on, back when I only had two, three, four, five employees. It was easier then than it is now. Z, I wanna pile on something I’ve learned from you. Two things that you always say is, train all of your employees to run everything through the filter of what’s best for the business. Yes. So train them to run that through the filter. And then also, before they make any decisions, you always tell them to say, what would Z do? Right. So what would I do? And then what’s best for the business? That’s really all that matters. Right, exactly. Because you want to try to replicate for yourself as much as possible. Chester, hot question for you here. I’ve heard you say, or I believe I read, but I wrote it down here, it says, management is the link between the boardroom and the client. Management is the link between the boardroom and the client. So in the boardroom they’re, okay this is what we need to be doing over here. But then the actual execution, can you talk about management and what management is in your mind? Yeah, management to me is you’ve got to deliver on the corporate promise. So you’ve got to take that mission vision, all those commercials, however it is you’re communicating with your customer, right? And it’s the manager that has to actualize that. So how do I take that promise in my team and how do I then deliver that promise to my customers? And you know, middle management is always the guys that are caught between the rock and the hard place, right? They’re caught between their bosses and their employees in making that happen. I think that’s why, you know, for so long we really kind of positioned ourselves as the manager’s best friend. Let us help you with the tools, the philosophy, and the wherewithal to get done what you need to get done through the people which are your, which is the mechanism that you’re gonna deliver that. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, and you guys are, I have so much knowledge. I wanna try to break it down to the most granular, specific, actionable for our listeners out there who run small businesses. I think there’s got to be somebody out there listening who’s saying, but how do I hold someone accountable, Chester, to the corporate promise when I don’t have any backups? You know, the corporate promise is we’re going to be on time every time, let’s say. But I don’t have a backup, and this person’s perpetually late, and I don’t have a viable replacement recruited yet. What advice would you have for somebody out there who’s trying to implement the corporate promise and yet they don’t have a backup plan? That’s a tough one. Good for you. Because the manager is ultimately responsible so it’s the manager that steps into the breach. You know, I was reflecting on what you were saying earlier about hire fast, fire fast, and I will tell you, we have that experience where we hired badly and we managed around it for way too long when we should have hired fast and fired fast. So the conundrum that I’ve got here is that the problem that you’ve given me is you’ve got no backup. You’ve got nobody to replace it. In that case, the manager is the owner. You’ve got to step in and do it yourself and figure out real fast how to get that person out and get the right person in. And I do think that’s one of the hardest things managers do is that transition. And the fact is that you just don’t have the time. So you’ve gotta find the time, you’ve gotta generate the backups and have those people ready to go. I love managers that are constantly looking for strength. They’re constantly looking for that next employee. So when it does happen, they do have a backup. I think those are some of the best managers we’ve studied. Adrian, a lot of people get all hung up on, how do I manage millennials? How do I do it? How do I manage millennials? And so the first step is they go into the corporate office and they begin to remove all gluten from the office. So as to not kill a millennial. They remove all the gluten, then they start to say, our new corporate policy is to everyone needs to share cars. We’re all going to Uber to work and we all need more apps. They try to almost pander to millennials, not realizing these are real humans. But there’s so many people that have built up in their mind this big wall, like managing millennials is impossible. Now, if you’re up- Everybody bro. Bro. It’s bro. Bro. Sorry. Sorry. I’m telling you, if you look at Z’s business, Optometry Clinic, or my business, Elephant in the Room, just two of our companies, we have a lot of younger people that work in the stores, in the brick and mortar stores. Talk to us about the best advice you would have, Adrian, for how to manage millennials effectively and where people get this wrong. Just deep dive into Managing Millennials 101. Yeah, and this is actually where we’ve been asked to speak more on managing millennials, even though we are well past our millennial days. And one of the reasons is we’ve got a lot of data. Not only we have these hundreds of thousands of people in our surveys, but we have what we call a motivator’s assessment. It’s a hundred question online assessments and built by psychologists and psychometricians to really spit out what motivates you. And we’ve had more than 14,000 of those people who are 20 somethings who have taken the assessment over the last couple of years. So we have more data than I think anybody else about really what does motivate millennials. And often when I’ll speak on this topic, I’ll throw it out. I’ll say, okay, what do you think motivates millennials? And people will yell out different things and inevitably they’re wrong. The most common motivator for millennials, 20 somethings especially, is making an impact at work. I want to know that my work has impact, it’s making a difference. Number two is the idea to learn and to grow on the job. I want to know that I’m making a difference but I’m also growing myself. I’m becoming more marketable, more saleable later. The number three motivator is fascinating. This is the third most common of 23 different human motivators is family and that includes not only my family but also my tribe. We’re hearing this from a lot of CEOs where they’re saying, ìLook, I want to get my millennials to work on weekends, work over the holidays sometimes.î They’re telling me, ìNo, no. My family, my tribe is more important than work.î It comes back to what Chester was saying earlier about it’s no longer work-life balance. It’s life and how do we create this better life experience is when we start attracting and retaining our millennials. It’s just a different way of thinking for us because for most of us, those in Gen Z or Gen Xers or the boomers, we would have rather moved into a cardboard box after college than moving back to the parents. But these millennials living in droves, they have such a different mindset. mindset, and if we’re not changing the way we manage to help manage them more effectively, we’re just not going to be successful. You just said, and I want to make sure I’m getting this right, you just said that for a lot of baby boomers, a lot of people of different generation, they would rather go live in a cardboard box than to move back in with their parents. You just said that a lot of millennials, they have no problem living with their parents. I am 38, which means I don’t know how my smartphone works, and I’m probably more old school. I am of the group that would say I would rather live in a van down by the river or in a cardboard box than to ever take a handout or a hand up from anybody, almost ever. I hate it. I hate doing that. Where did that mindset come from in your mind? You guys have done so much research. You guys have all the data right there. Where did that mindset come from where people don’t, millennials don’t have a problem moving back in with their parents after college? In one way, we’ve created what we call, we’ve been lawnmower parents. We did this to our kids. The lawnmower parents, they just cleared the way for their kids. Their millennials do see mom and dad as people who make the way easier for them. The helicopter idea has passed now to the idea of a lawn mower parent. That’s really what we did to create these. We have created millennials. With that said, millennials do have more technical aptitude. They’ve got great energy, great ideas. We have to find ways to bring them into the workplace, but if we feel like they’re going to work 12-hour days, six days a week, we’re going to be alone in our workplaces. We’ve got to change the way we think with these folks. So if I’m out there right now and I go, okay, what’s the advantage of hiring a millennial? And then what’s the value of hiring a, let’s say, a baby boomer or somebody more old school? Chester, I’ll go with you on this. If I’m asking myself, what is the benefit, what’s the upside of hiring an old school, you know, the kind of guy that used to skate… Remember skating on four wheels? Oh yeah, quad skating. Quad skating on those four wheels, playing the dice game, wearing a jean jacket. People that know who Tom Selleck was and is, people who respect the game of Patrick Swayze, people who have fantasized about riding inside the Millennium Falcon. Those people, old schoolers, or millennials named Skyler, Hamilton, Madison, all names that could be any gender. What’s the advantage of hiring a millennial versus a baby boomer or old schooler or vice versa? Well, the fact is that most organizations have both. One of the things we looked at in our book, The Best Team Wins, is how do you manage generations? You’ve got baby boomers working next to millennials. I think what you’ve got to take a look at is just what do I need them to do? You know, where is, you know, it’s going to be highly technical if it’s going to be involving a lot of social media, I’m much better off with it with the millennials. If it’s a technical or if it’s a relationship kind of thing, if it’s going to be long hours and nose to the grindstone, I’m probably going to be better off with the baby boomer. Now, I really want to caution us all here. We’re falling into the classic trap that if you’re born between certain years, that’s exactly who you are and we could put you in this pigeon hole. It’s sort of like your zoodeligical, however you say that, zoodeligical, whatever it is. I’m a Virgo, and so I’m a Virgo, you’re a Taurus, we’ll never get along. Real quick, the only person on the show doing that so far was me. Dr. Z is very fair and balanced. This was Eric, but I was pigeonholing. None of our listeners were. Rod Blush Clay. Back to you. Back to you guys. Sorry there. There you go. And the fact is that we see a lot of millennials that act like baby boomers. There’s a lot of baby boomers that have really embraced the digital age that act a lot like millennials. So again, you know, get back to who the person is at their core. What do you need them to do? Do their values align? Do their skills align? And most importantly, do their passions align with what they’re doing? You know, it’s one thing to know what to do and how to do it. The why, the passion, and that’s the biggest differentiator. And that transcends all the different generations. You get that right, you’ll get the right fit. You’ll get somebody who’s productive and happy in what they’re doing. Adrian, I’ve read where you guys once wrote, you said, great cultures share information daily, even hourly. Adrian, what do you mean by this? Well, what we found, and again, coming back to our new work on teams, was that a lot of times we have a feeling that the teams should be harmonious. Well, actually, no. The best teams we found today actually have a lot of debate, but it started with this idea of you’ve got to share information. We come from a world of, you know, it’s a need to know culture. You know, Clay, you’re never going to need to know, frankly. What we’ve moved into is a culture where organizations and teams that are high performing are very open, even with the things they’re struggling with. We used to be afraid, oh no, the competitors will find out about that. And now we realize if we’re not open, our people can’t help in improving the situation. But our people, you know, the idea, think about it like all your people have ideas in their pockets, and they’re not gonna bring them out unless we’re open to what we’re struggling with and we value them when they do share their ideas. Okay, so you guys are writing a new book, you’re working on new work right now, and you’re talking about how the best team wins. And again, that candid transparency, that’s one way that best teams win. Can you share with us about your new book, The Best Team Wins, Chester, and why maybe everybody out there should pick up a copy of it? Yeah, or two. You know, don’t limit yourself to just one copy. Maybe three. It’s crazy. Yeah. We looked at teams and a lot of the basic work that was done, we’re big fans of Lancioni, you know, the five dysfunctions of a team. And those foundations of trust and communication and so on are still very valid. The reason we wrote The Best Team Wins is that with the new economy, with the gig economy, with the flexibility that people have, that they’re not staying in jobs for five and ten years anymore. They’re very mobile. There were five attributes of high-performance teams in the new digital world that were much different than we’d ever seen before. We talked about managing generation. That was very different. Managing to the one, understanding people’s motivators and what their passions are, as opposed to old school, where we treat everybody the same because that’s fair. Now, it’s very much an individualized experience at work. Speed to productivity was an area we looked at very carefully. If you’re only gonna have an employee for two to three years which is the estimate around most millennials, baby boomers had maybe five or six jobs, millennials are gonna have more like 15. So in this churn of employees, how do you get them up to speed faster and productive faster? Adrian talked about the fourth dimension, which is challenge everything. Create a culture where there’s emotional safety and where I can give you my best ideas without fear of looking foolish or being disruptive. Then the last one is let’s not forget about the customer. You don’t have a business if you don’t have customers. We’re doing all these great things to create great products and services and cultures that deliver products that are valued by your customers. And so that dynamic, those five dimensions are very different than what we had seen, you know, 10 and 15 and even five years ago, and why we think the book is so helpful. Chester, you and Adrian are best-selling authors. You’ve spoken to some of the biggest companies on the planet. I really want to direct this next question for Adrian and then Chester feel free to one-up your partner here. So Adrian, this comes for you. Book recommendations. You guys, I would recommend all the listeners check out your newest book, The Best Team Wins. I also recommend all the listeners go to They check out your website. I recommend everybody out there. What better way to say I love you this holiday season than with a gift of The Best Team Wins. Sounds like a plan to me. But Adrian, I want to ask you, what book has made the biggest impact in your life? Or maybe what books? I jotted down the five dysfunctions of a team. What’s another book that really has made a huge impact in your life? Well, we’re actually starting a project right now, writing a book with Marshall Goldsmith. And great book, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There, one of his classics that I definitely recommend because no matter if you run a business where there’s just one of you or there’s 300 people in your organization, like the Huck-d’r-zee, you can stand to benefit from recognizing what those behaviors are that are maybe holding you back from the next level. Sure. Okay, okay. Now, Chester, feel free to one-up your partner there. Well, I’m going to go with the Bible. There you go. That one up to everybody. Wow. You get there. Wow. That’s a big gun. A big gun. When all else fails, just put it out the bazooka. Put it out the lab. Put it out the bazooka. I got just a real hot take real quick. I just want to say this, and this isn’t really, I mean, I’m kind of embarrassed that you guys didn’t recommend the Bible as the first recommendation, so I’m going to have to give Chester the win right there. Chester gets a mega point. He gets a mega point. There you go. Which is redeemable in heaven there. Okay. Nice. I will tell you, though, I do want to share a great book title with your listeners, written by a friend of mine, actually. You know about Giving Tuesday? Does that ring a bell? Giving Tuesday. Chop, is that what… I feel like… No? I know about Boneless Tuesday. Is that what Buffalo Wild Wings is? A slightly different concept. There you go. Very similar. Back to you guys. We see you on Thursday, but not Giving Tuesday. Biggie Time Wednesdays. No. So, you’ve got Black Friday, right? And then you’ve got Cyber Monday. This is not a racist show. This is not. No, there’s no racism on this show. We’re colorblind on this show. Okay. Okay. Well, there’s a guy, a wonderful guy named Henry Timms, and he and his wife have developed this Giving Tuesday. So, after you’ve had Black Friday and you’ve had Cyber Monday, you give to a charity. And it’s actually become quite a global phenomenon. And it’s very interesting. He, along with Jeremy Hyman, has written a book called New Power. And it’s how power works in our hyper-connected world and how to make it work for you. The hierarchical power has been disseminated when you look at Occupy Wall Street and you look at how the internet has worked where you go to get information and so on. And it is a fascinating book around new power and where it resides. It’s called New Power by Henry Kims, highly recommended. Okay, Adrian, I have a final question for you and Dr. Z, please feel free to one up me. I’ll go with Adrian first and Chester second. The same question for both you guys. We’ll go with Adrian first here. You guys are very successful and obviously you guys are purposeful. You’re intentional about how you organize your life, how you achieve your goals, so at a very practical about how you organize your life, how you achieve your goals, so at a very practical level.


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