Is the American Dream Dead? Why Do 60% of Young People Say That the America Dream Is Dead? + How to Get Rich in American History + 300 Years of Financial Advice That Worked (& Didn’t) With Joseph S. Moore, PhD

Audio Transcription

Transcribed with Cockatoo

I can do this, and I will do this. This is what I tell myself each day. Times are tough these days. All you have to do is turn on the news to find out.

I’m not here to talk about plans to deal with this till 2017. I’m saying we’ve got a real problem.

Debt is crushing us. With the average American household owing $15 ,000 on their credit card, $33 ,000 in student loans, The number of people who work their whole lives and still retire with debt is skyrocketing. People don’t even think it’s possible to be upwardly mobile anymore. That’s the American dream.

They think it’s dead.

You probably know someone that feels the same way. But my friend, they are wrong. History shows us that people have always faced adversity and have overcome obstacles.

So can you.

And for me, I know your choice matters. Because of racial segregation, I wasn’t even allowed to use the front door of the bank in Greenville, Mississippi. I remember the back door, but I refused to let that slight cause me to fail. Without the idea of family setting and making a living in the cotton fields of the Delta, I shifted my thinking, and so can you. I imagined possibilities that did not even exist at the moment, but they eventually became my reality. I became a Pulitzer -nominated author, an entrepreneur, who helped to introduce their master exercise system to the world.

Now the president and CEO of two small businesses and one of the owners of a bank that 50 years ago, I wouldn’t have been able to even walk through the front door. The American dream is not dead. Let me say it again. The American dream is not dead. Maybe a jumpstart is all it needs. So was my success a choice?

You better believe it was definitely my choice. You see, adversity for many of us is a catalyst that initiates the change. It isn’t easy. It’s not always fun, but it’s a choice. You can do this. No matter what situation you find yourself in, you can maximize your potential.

You will meet adversity. Trust me, it will strengthen you. You will fail, it will be lessons learned you will never forget. You will be challenged, but your creativity will amaze you. Get rich quick schemes don’t work, no matter how enticing. But if you’re willing to shift your thinking and make the choice to work hard, believe in yourself and continually educate yourself, you can accomplish whatever it is that you have imagined.

Just imagine the possibilities and be ready to work them into reality. You know, we’re excited. to help you jumpstart your own success story. Now roll up your sleeves. You can do this. Be your own dream come true.

Welcome to Thrive 15.

How to get rich in American history. You see, if you’re watching this show, I’m assuming you’re watching a business show because you want to learn how to grow a business, how to start and grow a super successful company. And so I have a very big interest in entrepreneurs, entrepreneurship. I love reading biographies, autobiographies. I like to know how people built their fortunes, how people built their wealth. And on today’s show, we’re joined by a man who’s written a book called How to Get Rich

in American History. 300 years of financial advice that worked and didn’t. And now let me further renew the man of the myth, the PhD, Joseph S. Moore. Welcome onto the Thrive Time Show. How are you, sir?

I’m great, Clay. Thanks for letting me be here.

I’m enjoying it.

Hey, so what’s your PhD in? What did you study?

I have a PhD in American history. So my story is a little bit convoluted because my PhD is absolutely not in business, finance, entrepreneurship, or anything related to getting wealthy. One does not get a PhD in history to pursue wealth. I was getting a PhD in history in 2005. And back then, everybody said the lesson of history was really clear, right? What are you supposed to do?

Renting is throwing your money away. So I did instead of thinking about this critically I nodded my head and my wife and I got one of those no income loans I’m a graduate student, right?

All right.

It’s three years later a buddy of mine at church is leading a Financial class and he’s like, hey, would you come and I thought I’m too smart. I don’t need that kind of stuff But uh, he said man, will you come just cuz I’m scared.

Nobody’ll come I’m gonna be embarrassed So we go they make us do a budget and I could not sleep who gave us a mortgage like wouldn’t who what on earth? What were we thinking? So I saw put the house in the market put it on a house on a market on Monday, it sold on Saturday in a bidding war. My neighbor put hers on the next day. It never sold. We were the last people off the 2008 Titanic.

And I thought, I have to know why I was listening to just what everyone was saying. Why do we follow certain financial advice and not others. And so I started researching obsessively for over a decade. I tried to read every single piece of financial advice in American history. What were people told to do with their money?

What really worked?

What didn’t?

And that’s where the book came from. So it’s been a wild adventure. I did a lot of self -experimentation. Like, OK, if people did this in the past, can we do it in the future? So one of the primary mortgage payoff strategies, rent out rooms in your house. So I rented out all the rooms in my house on Airbnb to see how that would go.

So got to do some fun things. And about halfway through, I thought, OK, if you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich? So I said to my wife, I said, I’m going to try to use these strategies to make a million dollars. And she said, you’re crazy. You make $50 ,000 a year. And I said, well, let’s see how it goes.

The worst that could happen is I go broke, and I already don’t make that much money. So sure enough, after a few years and some crazy experiences that are in the book, I was able to walk away financially independent. Now, I’ve heard you say, I’ve heard you articulate that you believe that it’s never been easier to achieve than it is right now. Now, that might be hard for people to believe. A lot of people watching this are going, This just in, eggs are expensive. So when you say it’s never been easier to achieve, what do you mean by that?

Or maybe I’m putting words in your mouth.

No, you’re not putting words in my mouth. That is the central argument of the book is we, we have come to believe that the American dream is dead and we are wrong. We keep having a funeral for something that keeps coming back to life. I can find people saying the American dream is dead before I can find the phrase American dream in 1676.

This is a hundred years before Hamilton is rapping on Broadway, right?

1676. the colonists of Virginia burned the Capitol to the ground because they said nobody gets ahead anymore. In the 1800s, there were big speeches given, the rungs on the ladder to success have all been sawed off by the people who got there first. In 1980, there was a best -selling book in 1980 saying, it’s so sad the baby boomers will never be able to afford to retire. Now, why is it we hear this message over and over? I call it big woe.

And big woe, or the despair industrial complex, they want to convince you to listen to them because there are no clicks for journalists, There are no votes for politicians, and there is no tenure for academics telling you the world is great. But they can have all of those things if they tell you somebody broke it, I know who did it, and I know how to fix it. They get rewarded for telling you that message, so we hear it all the time, but we don’t get rewarded. for hearing it. But if everyone in every position of authority says it’s bad, it kind of starts to make you think, can I act on the world? But you can act on the world.

So let’s talk about why it’s easier to get ahead today. Upward mobility rates. In the 1800s, the chances of rising from the bottom to the top were about 20, and in some cities that were particularly booming, 30%. Today, if you are born at the bottom, 6 in 10 people born at the bottom get out. 4 in 10 become middle class to upper middle class. 1 in 10 becomes rich.

So we have economic mobility like we’ve never had for all kinds of reasons. Let’s think about this. You can go anywhere right now in a U -Haul with everything you own and be somewhere in the country in two days. It used to take 45 days to get across the country. It took 30 days to get here on ships, right? So just your ability to live in the largest free market zone in the world means that you can get up and go wherever the opportunity is.

We drastically overestimate how hard it is to get ahead today because, in part, we’ve forgotten how hard it used to be. You know, I’ve been self -employed since I was 15. I’ve been self -employed since I was 15 and have had success in a variety of industries. And I’m just saying this as background for anybody who might not know my story, but I built one of America’s largest wedding entertainment companies called DJ Connection. And I sold that, djconnection . com.

It still exists today. I started a wedding photography company on that wedding theme, epicphotos . com. I started the Tulsa Bridal Association Wedding Show. I’ve started a wood flooring business. I’ve been involved in a lot of different businesses.

I’ve been involved in dental practices, et cetera. And so I look at entrepreneurship as exciting, it’s possibilities, it can be done. But yet, sadly, and again, correct me if I’m wrong, I believe over 60 % of America’s young people today believe the American dream is not possible. And so maybe my statistics are wrong, but I think most people think it’s not possible when it is. Where are young people getting this?

Is the idea taught at school that it’s not possible?

Is it taught on media? Where are the young folks getting this idea that it’s not possible? Yeah, that’s where I came up with this idea of Big Whoa, right? It’s everywhere. There’s not one space that you’re hearing this. It’s in every space that they’re hearing this.

They’re being told systematically that everyone who went ahead of them got the advantage and they didn’t. Now, let’s give credit where credit is due. There are some headwinds that they face. And they look at the baby boomers and they think, Man, you guys had it so easy. Now, you talk to a baby boomer, they will walk you through all the highs and lows of their lives, right? 16 % interest rates for mortgages, right?

These kinds of things. But it is true that the baby boomers ended in a wonderful spot. If I were to take what the baby boomers did and what they often tell younger generations to do, which is work a job for 40 years, save 10 % in stocks, and you’ll be fine. If we run that scenario every year from the American Revolution to today, It fails in just under half of the scenarios. So if you did what the baby boomers did, in half of American history, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t fund a retirement.

So, okay, boomer, you’ve been particularly lucky. But okay, doomers, you’re going to have to do what worked the other half of the time. And back to your point about entrepreneurship, you’re going to have to go solve somebody else’s problems. And that’s one of the key lessons that we learn from American history. The real money is in solving somebody else’s problems. Most financial advice, go on, go to Barnes and Noble, close your eyes, reach up on the financial shelf, and you’re going to have somebody telling you how to solve your problems.

It’s going to be, should I buy lattes? Should I get crypto? These are things that solve your issues. The real money is made solving somebody else’s problems. The real money requires a lot of effort, a lot of hustle, a willingness to get up and go where the opportunity is.

That’s what entrepreneurs do. And that’s where most of the real money in the American economy is made. And it is absolutely still available. So you actually, unlike most researchers, you actually tried to apply these principles yourself.

And so as you tried to apply principles to generate success in America, I’m sure you discovered what doesn’t work.

I’m sure you have a list of things that didn’t work and a list of things that do work. I do. And for those who want to get the book, there’s 25 things that worked and seven things that didn’t. But I’ll give you some fun examples of things people have tried. So in the book, The early days of the space race, when Americans, when the world realized, oh, we can actually go to space, as we’re experiencing right now with all the news going on with the mission out there, people started to figure out if they could go ahead and claim the land on the moon. So a guy walks into a notary public’s office and gets someone to put a stamp on his claim to ownership of the entire moon, all things extraterrestrial.

So believe it or not, you can still try to do this. And so I bought an acre of land by the Sea of Serenity with what was advertised as phenomenal earth views and zoned for tourism. I thought, well, because heavy industrial would ruin the earth views. So I would do stuff like this. If I found people in the past trying something out, no matter how crazy it sounded, I would try it out, too. So I mentioned earlier, people say you can’t buy a house anymore.

This is back to your point about What about the American dream is dead and nobody can get ahead. One of the things that’s happening is we do have a housing crisis in this country but it is not the first and it is not the worst Americans who encountered housing crises before the way they were able to afford houses, which by the way we’re also to buy, Was they would often get the down payment together put the down payment and immediately start renting out rooms in their house airbnb house hacking style That was the primary mortgage payoff strategy for most of history So of course I went to my wife and said What if we rented out all the rooms in our house that made it a little while until she told me that was done But we tried these strategies out one of the big strategies in the 1980s was zero down real estate And that one was quite the adventure trying to buy a house with zero money down. I don’t recommend it but over the course of doing it over and over and over, kind of like you said with entrepreneurship, you learn, you get better, you try things out, you find out what works and what doesn’t. And I was able to eventually realize like you have to run every investment like a business. If you think you’re going to get passive, if you think you’re going to get rich on passive income, good luck with that.

But if you actively engage in the process of moving yourself ahead and you get good at it, you can make plenty of money in the American economy. Now, I think there’s somebody out there that is saying, you know, this book seems exciting, but, you know, there’s been a lot of self -help books written. I mean, there’s been some, you know, there’s so many. Why does this book need to be something I need to read? And one of the things you write about is a concept called go -aheadism, fast time, slow time. Could you just demonstrate the kind of profound knowledge people can find in your book and explain to us or unpack for us a little bit about this go -aheadism?

Yeah, well, and go ahead. That was the phrase of the 1800s. People that say, nobody can get ahead. They said, hey, go ahead, meaning take the risk. Because, and this is what we forget, risk is wildly underrated by most Americans today for two reasons. One, the payouts are very real.

It’s where most of the money is. But also, it’s never been less risky to risk anything in human history. You can injure your spouse, your wages, you can insure your house, you can insure literally everything in your life. It’s never been less risky to risk. In the 1800s, when it was really risky to risk, they said, go ahead.

If you’ve heard of Frederick Douglass, the famous abolitionist, what everyone knows him today is the speech, What to the Slave is the Fourth of July. It’s a great speech. I’m glad we teach it in schools. It’s important. But that was not the most famous speech of his own life, the most famous speech of his lifetime. Everywhere he went, white audiences, black audiences would beg him to give the speech.

It was called Self -Made Men, where he says in that speech, our motto as Americans is go ahead. I can be who I want to be. prosperous. So first and foremost, one of the lessons of American history is to be aggressive, to go after opportunity. I’ll talk about fast time and slow time. That is a concept that I developed as I was reading over and over and over again, and I would talk to people about how they thought of financial history.

Most of the way we think about financial history is from what I call doom porn and gloom porn, right? It’s always 1929. It’s always 2008. And everything is changing all at once. And all the smart people saw it coming. Here’s the problem with that.

Those books and movies are not there to teach you how to handle your money. They are there to entertain you.

It is a murder mystery where we are yelling at the screen, he’s behind you.

The subprime mortgage lender is behind you.

Run away. That’s not how most people live their financial lives. You live your life, not when everything is changing constantly, but in slow time. When you have to do the work of building something and the decisions you make in slow time, people are saying it’s going to crash, people are saying it’s going to boom, but it stays within a normal bandwidth of volatility. What you build in that time, like a business, like a marriage, like a career, those are the things that will pay out when fast time hits.

In your book, you talk about thinking like an immigrant. What does that mean, thinking like an immigrant? For anybody out there that’s not an immigrant, what does that mean to think like an immigrant? Yeah, so whatever your thought on the politics of immigration today, let’s put that to the side. Throughout American history, rewards went to the strivers. And we want an economy where rewards go to the strivers.

The rewards that paid out over and over again were for the people who were willing to do whatever it took to get ahead, the specs to get back to go ahead. This ability, again, I’m going to say this again, I’ve said it two or three times already, you live in the largest free market zone in the history of the world. I can’t say that enough to people. People kind of want to figure out how they’re going to go ahead near grandma’s house. You may not be able to go ahead in your grandma’s house because the opportunity may be somewhere else. And that’s what, in the history of this country, people who came to this country were willing to risk going where the opportunity was.

They were willing to do things that were uncomfortable. They were willing to side hustle. We think that today that side hustles are somehow new and they’re a sign the economy got broken. Side hustles are old and they’re the way people got ahead. Women and children would often raise eggs. Talk about the price of eggs.

This was one of the primary extra income streams that immigrant Americans would have. They would get up early, gather the eggs, go to market, sell them, and then go to work.

So this ability to look at the world and say, I’m willing to take risks, I’m willing to act on the world, and the strategies that immigrants employed, which are detailed in the book, still work today, even if you were born and raised in South Carolina like I was. How’s this book organized for anybody out there? Is this book, how big of a book are we talking about? How did you decide to organize it? Because I know a lot of went into this thing.

Kind of walk us through, if someone buys a copy of the book, what’s it, how’s the book formatted?

How’s it organized? Yeah, so I tried to walk through it topically instead of, you know, some, obviously most histories you start at the beginning, go to the end. I wanted to think about it by topic. So for instance, there’s a chapter on gurus and financial gurus. Where did we get financial gurus? Where did we get these people who tell us what to do with our money and how did they become popular doing it?

I have a chapter on investing in the next big thing. Everybody wants to invest in the next big thing in America and they always have. In 1800, the big technology of the future was the canal building movement. Every city in America was going to connect to the interior through canals because New York had done it first, but Boston and Baltimore and Charleston were going to do it too. 93 % of investors lost all their money. So we have seen people chasing the future for a long time.

And I have a chapter that discusses how that history has evolved and why people keep chasing the next big thing. Chapters on things like women, women as investors. Women were always active investors. Chapters on how did families handle their finances? How did people get on the same page financially? I’ve got a chapter on retirement.

We think that Nobody retired before Social Security. People were retiring just fine before Social Security. And so I have a chapter that explains how people retired before Social Security and how you can use those strategies even today to retire with it. I call it retirement stacking, which is exactly what people did for hundreds of years. So it’s topical. It’s on different things that may be of interest, like a chapter on debt, a chapter on going broke.

I argue that there’s never been a better time to go broke in America than right now because you can bounce back, which is not something you could say for most of time. I even have a chapter on what I consider the number one financial advice in American history. You see it over and over everywhere you go, marriage. Marriage advice was the number one topic of financial advice for most Americans. I would go to the 1800s manuals for young businessmen and they would have a chapter on marriage advice and the next chapter on how to factor tables on interest rates. That’s how important marriage was seen to your financial success.

So it’s topical. It’s on a lot of topics. There’s 25 chapters and a whole lot of lessons I hope people can really use.

I want this history to be useful to people. Now, I have been married for 25 plus years now. And so I know a thing or two about marriage. We’ve got five great kids. I see a lot of people, though, that really Do they marry somebody that you think to yourself, wow, that’s not going to work out, and then it doesn’t work out, and then they cut their net worth in half, and then they keep doing that cycle. Do you have any practical advice that maybe the book references for anybody out there who is not married, they’re a young person, young man, young woman, thinking about getting married, and they’re going, I don’t want to marry somebody that’s going to cause me to self -sabotage financially, but I want to marry the right one.

Do you have any advice for anybody out there who’s a young, unmarried individual watching today’s show? Yeah, absolutely. So you don’t pick the family you start with. So the family you start is the single most important financial decision of your life. Marriage over and over again is one of the largest predictors of financial success or failure. Give you some examples, because marriage literally confounds anything you can throw at it for financial outcomes.

So married black men make more than single white men. Married moms earn more on their own. they earn twice as much as single moms. Married men, when they retire, have 10 times the net worth of divorced men or single men. So marriage is a superpower because capitalism is a team sport. now if somebody looks around and says yeah But what am I supposed to do right now because everything’s on an app and everybody says it’s you know We got the manosphere and we got you know, all these different movements What I tell people is there’s a lot of people out there who are not good with their money and won’t be good helping you build Your future but that’s okay.

You only need one so I would double down on the importance of marriage for financial success and over and over and over again for you, for your children. So if you’re already married, invest in your marriage, make it a really good one. If you’re not, find a really great person. And the advice from the 1800s was very clear in business manuals. I’m not talking about romance stuff. I’m talking about business manuals.

Businessmen giving advice to young businessmen would say, get married, get married young, start your family early, because it is much easier to get ahead when you are a teen. You went through 300 years of history to prepare for this book. Is there anything in particular that shocked you the most amidst your research? Anything where you thought, wow, I’m doing copious amounts of research, and this thing right here shocked me the most? Well, I think there’s so many misconceptions we have about what things that we think are very old or very new and things that we think are very new are very old. So I’ll give you some examples.

If I talk to your, you know, sling a rag and it lands on a financial advisor, he’s going to tell me the way to get ahead is compound interest. But that didn’t work for most of American history.

Most Americans did not get ahead with compound interest.

Why not? Number one, compound interest takes time. 90 -something percent of Warren Buffett’s wealth came after his 60th birthday. That is a birthday most Americans never saw. Secondly, most Americans’ wealth was in land which doesn’t compound. So compound interest works today, but it hasn’t been the way people actually got ahead for most of time.

Same thing with stocks for the long run. There’s this assumption that stocks have always beaten bonds. Well, historians went back and did the data again, but this time they put in all the facts. that went to zero and found that stocks did not beat bonds until World War II, which means that stocks for the long run is only as old as our last two presidents. Then there’s things that we think are really new that are really, really old. And I’ll give you the example here is crypto.

Everybody thinks that crypto is the new big thing. Crypto is the past. It is not the future. At the dawn of the Civil War, there were 10 ,000 separate currencies in America. from different issuers. This would be like if you went to work and got paid in Dogecoin and I went to work and got paid in Fartcoin and then we had to figure out how I’m going to pay for stuff.

The advice that grandparents used to give to the grandkids, and I’ve found this over and over, they would tell their kids and grandkids, whatever you do with money, spend it as fast as you can because it could go to zero tomorrow. My favorite example of this is a runaway slave named William Wells Brown. He runs away from Kentucky.

He gets as far as Michigan. He runs out of, you know, money and hope and friends, and there’s nowhere to go. He’s stuck. And a local landlord says, well, I’ll give you this space and rent it to you cheap. And you could start a barbershop to get yourself on your feet, which is a fabulous idea with three problems. He doesn’t know how to cut hair.

He owns no scissors. And no one in town has any money to pay him with. So he borrows some scissors. He doesn’t tell anybody he doesn’t know how to cut hair.

And he goes to a printer and he says, well, you print me money.

And they do. It’s like six cents, 12 cents, 50 cents. But he prints up money and then goes around town. He says, look, I will hand, it’s basically a token for a haircut. I’ll hand you this money and you give me food or you give me lodging. And within a year, his money is floating around Monroe, Michigan as valid currency.

A runaway slave has issued money and people are using it to pay for their groceries. So now, of course, William Rose Brown eventually makes it to New York, where he gets to freedom, and all of that money goes to zero, which is what happens to all self -issued currencies in American history. They all eventually go to zero. So what we think is really new with crypto is actually really, really old. When you think about this book and buying this book, I know some people are going, you know, if I bought this book, Clay, I couldn’t go buy a regrettable burrito. You know, I kind of have a burning desire to go get a regrettable burrito.

I want to go download iTunes songs I’m never going to listen to. Clay, you have no idea how committed I am to spending my money on things that do not help me get ahead. Somebody says, look, I’ve got a burning desire to buy a pack of Red Bull. multiple, like six, a pack of six. Someone says, look, I’m going to go to Chipotle and I’m going to double down on extra meat tonight. There’s a lot of things people can spend their money on.

Or you look at your book and you go, wow, for $32, I can get a hardcover copy of a book that could really Frankly, it changed my life. So I think, as somebody who likes to read, I think it’s a no -brainer to check out your book, How to Get Rich in American History. However, somebody’s on the fence. They’re going, should I buy a regrettable burrito, a regrettable burrito, or should I buy a hardcover copy of How to Get Rich in American History?

So Joseph, I’m going to give you the final word, the final two, three minutes we have you here.

Share with everybody out there, why should everybody invest in themselves and pick up a copy of this book? Well, first of all what you just said they need to invest in themselves whether they buy this book or another book or your work I mean they need to invest in themselves and what I would say about this book is you have a life to live and you don’t get to go back and live it in reverse. You live going forward. But the value of history is you get to go back and learn from all the people who came before you what worked and what didn’t. You can not make their mistakes, and you can take advantage of their ideas that actually produced wealth. Now, if someone’s still on the fence, I would encourage them to go to my substack, josephmorebooks .

com. It’s just on sub stack, but it’s through my website. And if you sign up for my sub stack, which is totally free. I’m not trying to monetize anybody. I’ve got enough money. I’m blessed to not, I’m not trying to just go and you’ll get the first chapter of the book emailed to you.

And you can read the first chapter and decide for yourself that this is something you think could help you out. Thank you so much, Joseph Moore, for taking time to be with us today. And I find a lot of times great guests will tell me, they’ll say, Clay, Reflecting back on the interview, I wish that you would have asked me this. Or I wanted to talk about this. So I’m going to give you that final, final word, the bonus fry, the bonus fry, the secret French fry at the bottom of the bag when you thought all the fries were gone. What is that question that you wish I would have asked you today?

Or what’s that one more thing you want to share with our listeners out there who are eagerly taking notes? I would just tell people, get all the education that you can, because one of the things that has paid out over and over again is education. So we talked about marriage. When you think about children, we often think, man, if I could just get rich and leave generational wealth to my kids, then that would change my family tree forever. But here’s what really affects your kids. Over and over, I have seen this across 300 years.

I’ve seen it in every decade of American history.

If you really want your kids to succeed, tutors outperform trust funds. Invest in your children, invest in their education, invest in their ability to know how to navigate their lives, and you will get an outsized generational impact. Thank you so much, Joseph Moore. I really do appreciate you. I’m going to pull up that book one more time, folks, for anybody out there looking for the book, looking for the title of the book. I know some people were driving a car while looking for a burrito in the drive -through during part of today’s show.

Somebody else was trying to get a bee out of the car while driving. That book title, one more time, is How to Get Rich in American History, 300 Years of Financial Advice That Worked and Didn’t. It’s a book written by Joseph S. Moore, PhD. Joseph S. Moore, thank you so much for your time today, sir.

And hope we will have you on the show again here in the near future. Clay, I would love to come back. Thank you. Thank you for what you do to help people learn how to advance their lives.

I really appreciate it. Thank you, brother.

Have a great day.

You too.

Bye -bye. Clay, my honor. My honor to be on your show.

And thank you for all you do.

I hear the ripple effects from you are good ripple effects.

You know what I mean?

People rave about what they learn from you.

So congratulations. Sean, guess what’s happening? April 9th and 10th, 2026. Uh, we are probably going to have an amazing business conference here at Tulsa Ruslim. Yes, we’re joined by Tim Tebow. Tim Tebow is going to be joining us right here at the Thrive Time Show World Headquarters, June 5th and 6th.

He’s a very successful football player, obviously a Heisman Award winner, but he’s also a very successful entrepreneur. Now, when you work with real clients, Sean, real clients you really work with to help them grow their companies. Do you ever hear a business owner tell you that they didn’t have time to get something done? Every day.

How often?

is not having enough time a problem for business owners?

All the time. It’s almost, it’s like maybe 90 % of the issues as people are trying to grow their company. Well, Tim Tebow is going to come join us here at the in -person Thrive Time Show two -day interactive business workshop, and he’s going to teach us time management and his approach to personal self -discipline and getting things done. Also at the workshop, I’ll put up on the website so people can see it here. Also at the two -day interactive workshop, Sean, we are going to be teaching accounting, systems creation, marketing, human resources, how to hire, inspire, train and retain great people, accounting, social media advertising, search engine optimization. Sean, what’s the area where most clients ask you for help the most?

Is it generating Is it creating leads? Is it hiring people? What’s the biggest issue that most business owners have by default before they come to one of our workshops? Well, I think it’s management because time is the most valuable resource for these business owners and being able to manage their time is the first thing. Once they get that under control, then generally the numbers. You know, being able to track their business and be able to make the best decisions based on numbers rather than emotions is a big area.

And we teach all of this stuff at the business conference, particularly you, Clay. You love to hammer on time management. It’s my favorite part of the conference. Now, I’m going to pull this up real quick here, because we’re going to go through it. If you’re not excited, I want to get you excited about what we’re going to cover at the workshop here. OK.

All right. The two -day interactive workshop. This is my 20th year hosting workshops.

So I’m telling you folks, we’re in rare form here.

So one is the idea of establishing your revenue goals. I think most entrepreneurs don’t know their revenue goals.

Would you agree or am I off my rocker?

No, that’s totally a very important point we do with every one of our new clients that come on board is we have to establish the revenue goals. And generally speaking, we have a vague idea, but not an exact idea that can be engineered down into like the daily goals for sales. And so that’s a really big one. break even numbers. What kind of sales do you have to do to even break even? Third is how many hours per week do you want to work?

What is your ideal schedule as an entrepreneur? Box number four, how do you stand out in the clutter of commerce? What makes your company unique from all the different businesses? In a world of brown cows, herds of brown cows, proverbial brown cows, the analogy of brown cows, how can you be the purple cow that stands out? How can you be the squeaky wheel that gets the oil? Box number five, branding.

How do you improve the perception that people have of you, your business, your brand. Box number six, marketing. Your three -legged marketing stool. What is a turnkey way for you and your company to generate leads so you can succeed? Because if you don’t have any leads, your business will bleed. If you can’t sell, your business will go to hell.

You’ve got to generate leads. Sean, how often do business owners by default tell you they have a hard time generating leads? It’s almost all of the time. It’s really a huge struggle. And many times, they may be creating leads, but just through word of mouth. So they get to a point where we’ve implemented systems, and then they need to create more leads.

But they’ve never had to do it. So there’s a lot of different scenarios where business owners are like, how do you create leads? Something we hammer on at the conference a lot. Box number seven, create a sales conversion system. And box number seven, create a sales conversion system. Sales scripts, recorded calls, one sheets, pre -written emails, lead trackers, all of the sales tools, the sales print pieces, the one sheets, the big screens that you see inside the business.

Whether you’re a doctor, you’re a dentist, you’re a lawyer, you got to have sales systems in place. We help you with that. Box number eight. What does it cost you to get another customer? Step number eight, what does it cost you to actually acquire a customer? Step number nine, it’s hard to build organization if you’re not organized.

We’re going to teach you how to create repeatable systems, processes, file organization. Box number 10, we’re going to teach you how to manage people, real people on the planet Earth. This just in, we’re going to teach you how to manage real people on the planet Earth. Box number 11, how to create a sustainable schedule that works for you and your family. Step number 12, how to create human resources systems for recruiting, hiring, training, and retaining great people. Box number 13, accounting.

This just in, we have to cover accounting. It’s not how much you make, it’s how much you keep. We’re going to cover all the accounting things you need to know. And step 14, finally, What is the point of even achieving success? We’re going to go over that. What is the point of even achieving success?

How to design a life that you’re excited about. How to design a life where you carve out enough time for your faith, your family, your finance, your fitness, your friendship, your fun, and where you’re going to spend your focused time. We’re going to go through that. All this and more. Now, the workshop, Sean, it’s April 9th and 10th. It’s a two -day interactive workshop.

And tickets, we always do it. It’s $250 or whatever price that someone can afford. Sean, why don’t we get started? name their price? Why do we have scholarship tickets available if somebody can’t afford the $250 general admission ticket? Well, we don’t want anybody to miss out on it.

You could be at a startup phase, or you could be way along in your business.

But we want to make it accessible for everybody. I think it actually goes back, too, to a story of your dad. And it goes all the way back to how you’ve always done this as a business coach, trying to make sure that you’re average people out there have access to the things that work. 20 hours of training over two days. Why do we do 10 hours a day, Sean, of back -to -back workshops? We do a 30 -minute teaching session, we do a 15 -minute question -and -answer session, and then we take a break.

30 minutes of teaching, 15 minutes of question -and -answer, then we take a break. Why do we do that format, Sean? That format is so that we can keep people engaged and not just sitting there listening, but also getting involved.

We really encourage people to ask questions, and that’s really where the juiciness of the conference comes out, is you can put your personal and your questions on the board, and Clay will tee off and give you direct advice.

Even without being in our coaching program, you can get direct coaching from Clay. It’s really a very engaging format. I enjoy it a lot. Once again, folks, this event is April 9th and 10th, 2026. Get those tickets at thrivetimeshow . com.

Once again, that’s thrivetimeshow . com. two -day interactive business workshop right here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I think it’s, uh, did you say it’s $250 or whatever you can afford? That’s right, $250 or whatever you can afford. Sean, how do you spell Eric Trump backwards?

Uh, P, uh, M, U, R, T, C, I, R, E. Ooh, that took a long time. I’ll have to listen to this.

All right, again, that’s Sean Lohman.

I’m Clay Clark, and inviting you to come join us at the in -person Thrive Time Show two -day interactive workshop.

This event is April 9th and 10th, 2026.

Get those tickets at thrivetimeshow .

com.

Once again, that’s thrivetimeshow . com. Right here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, Tim Tebow, baby. It’s Tebow time in Tulsa, Russia. Clay Clark is here somewhere.

Where’s my buddy Clay?

Clay’s the greatest.

I met his goats today.

I met his dogs. I met his chickens. I saw his compound. He’s like the greatest guy. I ran from his goats, his chickens, his dogs. So this guy’s like the greatest marketer you’ve ever seen, right?

His entire life, Clay Clark, his entire life is marketing.

It’s Luke Erickson here with the Thrive Time Show.

As you can see behind me, we’ve got all kinds of energy going on. People are starting to show up for the conference and it is hot in this place. We got grill guns over here. We’ve got people playing the drums. We’ve got a fire. I’m excited as they come in.

My name is Kevin Thomas and the name of our company is MultiClean.

We are a commercial janitorial service and we serve the entire state of Oklahoma and Kansas and soon to be Arkansas. We have probably grown probably five times. We’ve added, I think when we first started with you, we had 60 to 65 employees and now we have a little over 300 employees. Before we got involved with Thrive Time, we didn’t really have any systems or processes in place. I’ve probably been to, oh, in six, seven years, I’ve probably been to 12 to 13 business conferences. And amazingly, each time I go, I learn something new and I’m so excited to bring it back and, and show the team.

4 ,000%. from February to February. Now, I can better that.

OK, Clay, I don’t think you know this. I don’t think you know this. I’m pinching myself. And if I cry, forgive me.

In the last two and a half days, we have bettered our entire month of February.

in the last two and a half days. I heard about it on the podcast, started listening to the podcast, became a fan and then figured out about the workshop. I own an insurance and financial services agency, and I was hoping to learn from the workshop systems and processes. I’m big on systems and processes and always learning better ways to run a business more efficiently. The atmosphere is second to none. none.

It’s a high energy, really cool atmosphere to be around, contagious. I would say. Just something every entrepreneur I think would appreciate and love. I’d say humorous, high energy, and full of substance, which I think is the key. A lot of business coaches or seminars Maybe you’re high on motivation and making you feel good, but don’t have a lot of substance that you could take back and implement, you know, the following Monday. Where his does.

Man, there’s a lot of valuable things. I’m gonna say, like, I came to, this is my second workshop.

The first workshop I took back really the importance of a group interview. I used to spend hours and hours interviewing people, screening resumes, and that saving my time on that part is valuable. It was that and then the sales scripting that have been two major things just so far. Man, I think they’re missing out on expert advice from somebody who’s been there, done that, built companies, has learned a lot of lessons. That’s what I’m always looking for is somebody that I can learn from that’s ahead of where I am. And I think if you choose not to come, you’re missing out on a lot of good advice that could help your business.

Hi, this is Charles and Amber Colaw. We’re the owners of Colaw Fitness. We heard about Clayclark through Paul Hood, our CPA. We’ve worked with Clayclark for the last two years.

Clay Clark has helped us take our three locations in three different states and create checklists, workflows, task lists, time blocks for every employee. He’s helped us with creating systems and audits for every department, quantitative scorecards for each department and every position so that everybody has a number. It’s been able to give us a lot of time freedom and financial freedom and peace. of mind to know that everything’s running efficiently and he’s been helpful with a lot of marketing. search engine optimization, helping us really rank high in Google, and pretty much every area of the business. He’s been very, very helpful.

We would describe the experience of working with Clay as very energetic. He’s full of energy. He’s very encouraging, very motivating, but also accountable.

So he keeps us accountable, and we love that accountability.

It keeps our drive.

in the right direction, so we’re not chasing things that aren’t worth spending our time on.

He’s a great coach.

He helps push us on certain areas, helps coach us in certain areas. You know, we’re all emotional creatures and we go up and down and he actually will tell us kind of where we’re at, how we can get from there, and even like emotionally, like if we’re stressed about something, he’ll have a story to relate to and really helps us in every area. of our business. It’s been very, very helpful. I think Clay’s ability to have a whole team behind him that help him with all of his clients, all his coaching clients, is that it allows Clay to do what he’s really good at, and that’s working one -on -one with the client and coaching them. And then he can have his amazing staff come in and help you accomplish all these goals that you’re setting.

And of course he has all these resources, whether it’s videographers or whether it’s web developers, that they can quickly jump on your project, knock things out. He can quickly give you the right coaching. He’s just got a whole team of people that whatever area you’re lacking in, in your own company, he’s got resources from like video, web design, search engine guys who are just knowledgeable in that. Even though he knows a lot of that stuff, He’s got these capable lieutenants that are ready to just take off and help you get there. So more stuff gets done on a weekly basis than you would on like probably most individual or some other company.

We’ve worked with several companies before. not as many things get done on a weekly basis, so it’s been very helpful. Well, the conferences for me, I’m a slow learner, so I have to learn over and over again, hear things over and over again. I’ve been to, I think, eight different conferences, and each time you come, I learn a few new components. Some things are repetitive, but a lot of the stuff just resettles, and I get a little bit more depth into each component. So, I mean, I’ve been to eight of them.

They’re all super entertaining. He’s very funny, very encouraging. You get to kind of self -reflect a lot. A lot of the stuff is really polarizing. You do a personal inventory of yourself, and you’ll think like, hey, I’ve really got to work on this, really got to work on that.

So every time you come, I still get a lot of value out of it. And as much as every conference is the same, it’s totally different. So I think we’ll hear stories we haven’t heard before. He’ll have entertainment, or he’ll have speakers he didn’t have before. And you, like you said, you just always catch a different part of the material that maybe you didn’t catch before. It’s worded differently.

And it’s really cool because some people that you’ve seen like a year ago at a conference, now they’re, you know, being showcased as a success story and you get to see their website, you get to see how their stats and all their metrics have improved and the revenue improved. So it’s really cool to see people that just a year ago, that of course we’ve been here two years, that just came, that I met, is now being successful. It’s really encouraging to see other people accomplish that stuff. Clay has helped us optimize our website and helped with really topping the right search engines that we need to make sure that we are very, very competitive with all of our other competitors. Basically, he outlines exactly what you need to be accomplishing and he creates tasks that we have to accomplish and his team has to accomplish. and I would say over the last two years we’ve read totally ramp our website we’re topping Google and every one of our markets we’re just doing I would say just doing really, really good.

I feel very, very confident in all of our future locations and making sure that we’re in front of the ideal and likely buyer. It’s very encouraging. It’s important to me that to know when I’m working with Clay, you know, I’ve been in business for a while and met with him even when I already had three, three businesses in three different states. And to know that what I share with him is staying private. He’s not sending that out to anybody else. to know that when he’s working with me he’s only working with one other, no other gyms that are in direct competition with me.

It’s very encouraging to have somebody you can trust and rely on that he isn’t going to like somehow tell your trade secrets or give information away. Just really awesome that he’s a trustworthy guy, really cares about you as a client. For us, it’s been a complete mind freedom, because Clay has helped us create a lot of different documents and one sheets for every department, put quantitative scorecards to each department. And so for us, it’s been very encouraging.

It gives us peace.

As an entrepreneur, it’s stressful. You go to bed at night, you’re worried, like, did we cover this? Did we cover that? So he helps extract everything out of your brain, everything from your business, put it into document creation, put it into checklists and workflows for every person in each department, and make sure that everything’s getting done every week, every month, and funnel that all into KPIs, or Key Performance Indicators, as you can see, on a weekly basis, to make sure you’re moving the needle in the right area of your company. So very encouraging, and give you a complete mind, freedom, and peace to know that that stuff’s created, so you’re easy to duplicate and scale your company. doing what we’re really good at, and just trust the system.

I honestly believe everybody needs a coach. I think we’re all inherently lazy, selfish, and carnal. I truly believe that humans are humans. We’d rather, if we’re standing, we’d rather sit. If we’re sitting, we’d rather lay down. And if we’re laying down, we’d rather be asleep.

So to have somebody that challenges you, have real active candor, and be honest with you on every aspect of your company is really, really encouraging to me because I want to know, I want to work on what we’re weak at. I want to see any areas that we’re not doing well in and see his perspective. from a third party becaus your own business and jus good to have somebody wh reflect on your company a in the armor to make sur to you and that you’re s the big picture. Yes, I Clark because he is a gre to me. He’s been a wonde wealth of knowledge. He’s worked with so many different companies and different businesses.

He could take a concept that he’s used before in the past with somebody in a totally different industry and see how it would work perfectly for you in whatever niche market you’re in or whatever type of service you’re providing. And so his brain is just a wealth of knowledge and just to have that type of perspective as a part of your team and your own company is huge and super valuable.

So I would definitely encourage people to use him. But one thing is you’ve got to be coachable. You’ve got to be wanting to get feedback. You’ve got to be wanting to really grow your company. You gotta want to put that extra 10 hours a week to working on your business and not just in your business. And so, yes, I would recommend it to anybody who’s wanting to grow their company and provide great systems, checklists, workflows, great encouragement, and have accountability.

about Clay through a mortgage lender here in town who had told me what a great job he had been doing for them. And I actually noticed he was driving a Lamborghini all of a sudden, so I was willing to listen. In my career, I’ve sold a little over $800 million in real estate. So honestly, I thought I kind of knew everything about marketing and homes. And then I met Clay, and my perception of what I knew and what I could do definitely changed. After doing $800 million in sales over a 15 -year career, I really thought I knew what I was doing.

I’ve been managing a large team of salespeople for the last 10 years here with Shaw Homes. And I mean, we’ve been a company that’s been in business for 35 years. We’ve become one of the largest builders in the Tulsa area, and that was without Clay. So when I came to know Clay, I really thought, man, there’s not much more I need to know, but I’m willing to listen. The interesting thing is our internet leads from our website has actually, in a four -month period of time, has gone from somewhere around 10 to 15 leads in a month to 180 internet leads in a month. Just from the few things that he’s shown us how to implement that I honestly probably never would have come up with on my own.

So I got a lot of good things to say about the system that Clay put in place with us. And it’s just been an incredible experience. I am very glad that we met and had the opportunity to work with Clay. So the interaction with the team and with Clay on a weekly basis is honestly very enlightening. One of the things that I love about Clay’s perspective on things is that he doesn’t come from my industry. He’s not somebody who’s in the home building industry.

I’ve listened to all the experts in my field. Our company has paid for me to go to seminars, international builder shows, all kinds of places where I’ve had the opportunity to learn from the experts in my industry. But the thing that I found working with Clay is that he comes from such a broad spectrum of working with so many different types of businesses, that he has a perspective that’s difficult for me to gain because I get so entrenched in what I do, I’m not paying attention to what other leading industry experts are doing. And Clay really brings that perspective for me. It is very valuable time every week when I get that hour with him. From my perspective, the reason that any business owner who’s thinking about hooking up with Thrive needs to definitely consider it is because The results that we’ve gotten in a very short period of time are honestly monumental.

It has really exceeded my wildest expectation of what he might be able to do. I came in skeptical because I’m very pragmatic. And as I’ve gone through the process over just a few months, I’ve realized it’s probably one of the best moves we’ve ever made. I think a lot of people probably feel like they don’t need a business or marketing consultant because they maybe are a little bit prideful and like to think they know everything. I know that’s how I felt coming in. I mean, we’re a big company that’s definitely one of the largest in town.

And so we kind of felt like we knew what we were doing. And I think for a lot of people, they let their ego get in the way of listening to somebody that might have a better or different perspective than theirs. I would just really encourage you, if you’re thinking about working with clay, I mean, the thing is, it’s month to month. Go give it a try and see what happens. I think in the 35 -year history of Shaw Homes, this is probably the best thing that’s happened to us.

And I know if you give them a shot, I think you’ll feel the same way. I know for me, the thing I would have missed out on if I didn’t work with Clay is I would have missed out on literally an 1800 % increase in our internet leads going from 10 a month to 180 a month. That would have been a huge financial decision to just decide not to give it a shot. I would absolutely recommend Clay Clark to anybody who’s thinking about working with somebody in marketing. I would skip over anybody else you were thinking about and I would go straight to Clay and his team. I guarantee you’re not going to regret it because we sure haven’t.

My name is Danielle Sprick, and I am the founder of D. Sprick Realty Group here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. After being a stay -at -home mom for 12 years and my three kids started school and they were in school full -time, I was at a crossroads and trying to decide, what do I want to do? My degree and my background is in education, but after being a mom and staying home and all of that, I just didn’t have a passion for it like I once did. My husband suggested real estate. He’s a home builder, so real estate and home building go hand in hand, and we just rolled with it. I love people.

I love working with people. I love the building relationships. But one thing that was really difficult for me was the business side of things, the processes and the advertising and marketing. marketing. I knew that I did not have what I needed to make that what it should be. So I reached out to Clay at that time.

And he and his team have been extremely instrumental in helping us build our brand, help market our business, our agents. The homes that we represent, everything that we do is a direct line from Clay and his team and all that they’ve done for us. We launched our brokerage, our real estate brokerage, eight months ago. And in that time, we’ve gone from myself and one other agent to just this week, we signed on our 16th agent. We have been blessed with the fact that we right now have just over 10 million in pending transactions.

Three years ago, I never would have even imagined that I would be in this role that I’m in today, building a business, having 16 agents. But I have to give credit where credit’s due. And Clay and his team and the business coaching that they’ve offered us has been huge. It’s been instrumental in what we’re doing. Don’t ever limit your vision. When you dream big, big things happen.

I started a business because I couldn’t work for anyone else. I do things my way. I do what I think is in the best interest of the patient. I don’t answer to insurance companies. I don’t answer to large corporate organizations. I answer to my patient, and that’s it.

My thought when I opened my clinic was I can do this all myself. I don’t need additional outside help in many ways. I mean, I went to medical school. I can figure this out. But it was a very, very steep learning curve. Within the first six months of opening my clinic, I had a $63 ,000 embezzlement.

I lost multiple employees. Clay helped us weather the storm of some of the things that are just a lot of people experience, especially in the medical world. He was instrumental in helping with the specific written business plan.

He’s been instrumental in hiring good quality employees, using the processes that he outlines for getting in good talent, which is extremely difficult. He helped me in securing the business loans.

He helped me with web development and search engine optimization.

We’ve been able to really keep a steady stream of clients coming in because they found us on the web.

With everything that I encountered, everything that I experienced, I quickly learned it is worth every penny to have someone in your team that can walk you through and even avoid some of the pitfalls that are almost invariable in starting your own business.

I’m Dr. Chad Edwards, and I own Revolution Health and Wellness Clinic.

Clay, my honor, my honor to be on your show. And thank you for all you do. I hear the ripple effects from you are good ripple effects. You know what I mean? People rave about what they learn from you. So congratulations.

From expecting maybe $250 ,000 this year to we’re at $400 ,000. Kelsey with K &D’s Wooder Finishing, business owner at 23. So, I’ve been working this company for about five years now and we started working with Thrive, too.

So we’re pretty excited about that. Just listening to what they have to say, their hiring process has just really been incredible as far as finding good quality help and just the accountability of

meeting up with them weekly and such good insight, the resources they have for specific business questions. It’s all been really incredible. It’s been a great experience. So I’d recommend it to anybody. What I’ve seen from Clay and his group at Thrive is they’ll give you a simple system and it’s the simple systems are the ones that people can wrap their brain around. They’re the ones that people can work with on a day to day basis.

Hi there, my name is Stephanie Pipkin. I am 24 years old and I own Black River Falls Cleaning Services. We opened in April of 2019 and it is now mid -June of 2020. So I wanted to talk today about the success and growth I have achieved by implementing the Proven Path with Clay Clark’s team and my business coach, Luke, from Thrive Time. It has been insane, to say the least. I started working with them in mid -February of this year, so we’re about four months in of working together, and it has completely transformed my business in pretty much every facet.

So I’m going to check my notes here. So in four months my leads have tripled. I was getting probably like two leads a week. Now I’m getting more in the like 10 to 15 leads a week. I have doubled my number of employees. I’m now hitting the highest revenue weeks in the history of the company, week to week it seems like.

We went from about six appointments today as our highest in February to now 14 to 15 appointments a day. And hiring quality employees has become much simpler and less stressful by using their systems for hiring. I typically only get maybe two complaints a month, if that, and everybody shows up to work I just have really high quality employees now especially in something people typically consider a high turnover type of work You know cleaning houses cleaning businesses I have amazing employees now and I get rid of the ones who are not so amazing and bring on new ones because of You know group interviews and higher interviewing every single week. It’s just been great and such a I don’t waste as much time on low quality candidates anymore. And your coach will hold you accountable, which I love.

Again, the tough love is really great. Luke’s like a stern father figure, but he’s also nice, but also stern when he needs to be when I’m being lazy and not doing the things that I know I need to do because I don’t want to do them. So that’s just great. Worth every penny. I mean, I’d pay him a million dollars a month if I can, and maybe someday I’ll be able to, but I would just say go for it. If it seems like a good fit, just go for it.

Do what they say, even if you think it’s stupid or ridiculous, just do what they say because it’ll work. You know, people, when they look at my business, you know, people in my town, they think I’m lucky. They think I’m just, you know, things just happen for me. And, you know, maybe I am lucky, but it has a lot to do with hard work and, you know, perseverance and, you know, working until you cry sometimes. That’s just being an entrepreneur, which if you’re a business owner, you understand that. But it’s having these systems in place of, you know, of course I’m going to be successful.

It’s an absolute because I have all this stuff in the background happening. And I have Luke and Clay and everybody on their team working really hard to make sure that I’m a success.

And I can tell that they are just so excited every single week when I’m having all these wins and things like that.

They’re so excited for me.

So it just, it’s the best thing ever. And I would suggest to anybody to work with them. So sorry for the long -winded reply, but I just had so much to say and I could go on. for hours probably about how amazing they are But thank you to clay and Luke and the entire team there everything you guys have done for me And I am so excited to continue to work with you For years to come. Thanks so much for watching My saying is if it’s important to you hire a coach and I think that’s one of the reasons people are not successful as they You know, they eat a cheeseburger instead of hiring a coach. You know what I mean?

And so my coach pushes me. They’re younger than me. They push harder. They’re trained. And as my rich dad always said, you know, amateurs don’t have a coach, but professionals always have coaches. So I’ve always had coaches for whatever was important.

My rich dad was one of those persons. I wanted to learn how to play Monopoly in real life. So he was my coach.

Transcribed with Cockatoo