Mike LaCoss | Another Piece of Giants’ History | With 18-Year MLB Great, 1979 National League All-Star, 1987 Giants Pitcher of the Year & 1989 National League Champion w/ San Francisco Giants + MLB Behind-the-Scenes

Audio Transcription

Transcribed with Cockatoo

(Speaker 6)
Some shows don’t need a celebrity narrator to introduce the show, but this show does. In a world filled with endless opportunities, why would two men who have built 13 multi -million dollar businesses altruistically invest five hours per day to teach you the best practice business systems and moves that you can use? Because they believe in you, and they have a lot of time on their hands. They started from the bottom, now they’re here. It’s The Thrive Time Show, starring the former U .

(Speaker 23)
S.

(Speaker 3)
Small Business Administration’s Entrepreneur of the Year, Clay Clark, and the entrepreneur trapped inside an optometrist’s bunny, Dr. Robert Zilner. Two men, eight kids, co -created by two different women, 13 multimillion dollar businesses. We started from the bottom and now we’re at the top. Teaching you the systems to get what we got. Colton Dixon’s on the hooks. I break down the books.

(Speaker 3)
He’s bringing some wisdom and the goods. As the father of the squad, I’m a leader. So if you see my wife and kids, please take it. It’s the CNC up on your radio. And now, let’s go.

(Speaker 2)
Folks on today’s show, we’re going to interview a man who his life is fascinating. His father, his biological father was a Hollywood star. This man went on to play 18 years in Major League Baseball. So think about this. His father was biologically, his biological father was a Hollywood star of some kind, but yet he was raised poor, but yet he went on to become a Major League Baseball great who played for 18 seasons.

(Speaker 2)
Let me read you some of the accolades. In 1989, he was the National League Champion with the San Francisco Giants, the baseball Giants. In 1987, he was the Giants Pitcher of the Year. In 1979, he was the National League All -Star Pitcher. In 1977, he was an Indianapolis Indians Pitcher of the Year. of the year.

(Speaker 2)
This guy played high -level basketball in high school, high -level baseball in high school, and somehow I’ve tricked him into being on today’s show. Mike Lacoste, welcome to the Thrived Time Show. How are you, sir?

(Speaker 22)
I’m good, Clay. How are you?

(Speaker 21)
Good to see you again.

(Speaker 2)
I’m excited to have you on the show. And again, Keith over there at Crawdaddies, he’s been bragging on me, bragging on you, saying that you are just a fascinating person to interview. And he’s gotten to be a friend of yours over the years. So Keith with Crawdaddies, thanks for making that introduction. So Mike, let’s start off. You were born.

(Speaker 1)
I was.

(Speaker 2)
Your dad was a Hollywood star, but yet you never really knew him. Or walk us through your childhood.

(Speaker 1)
Not, not what you’d consider a star. He was the lower level employment guys that’ll, you know, in the fifties in Hollywood, those guys would do anything to make 25 bucks or 50 bucks. So he did a lot of different stuff, but he, you know, uh, uh, come to find out, uh, I think, uh, at about three and a half, somewhere in there, uh, I left with my mother never to be really be seen again until they saw me on TV. Uh, but, uh, it’s a, it’s a, not a good, not a good subject for me, you know, really, I long gone, but I traveled, you know, quite a bit lived in the Southern California area. with my mother from Costa Mesa to Compton, Ontario, Pomona, Montclair, and so forth. So I mostly stayed with my mother until I graduated from high school and went into pro ball.

(Speaker 2)
You could have been bitter, though. I mean, you could have gotten bitter, but you chose to become better. I mean, you could have said, hey, my dad wasn’t there, and so thus, I’m making poor decisions. But you somehow found, what, a groove or a diligence or a passion? Or how did you choose not to go down the bad path?

(Speaker 1)
Yeah, I think it comes with luck. A lot of it’s luck. And you have some talent and some abilities. And then when you start having success, if you’re If you’re really, you know, if you’re stupid and naive and not willing to kind of understand what it takes to not waste a talent, that’s, I think that’s what got me down the road. Sports, I always played sports. I, we had a family member, a family friend that lived with us for quite a while during my, during my elementary school days.

(Speaker 1)
And, you know, he, we were Los Angeles Rams fans back then and, I loved to go to the school and he would throw me, you know, I’d like, I’d go out for passes. I just would do anything. And he would throw me the football and then I learned football was the first sport that I learned and got very good at it. And of course, I could throw, really throw, you know. And I was a quarterback up until I started to go into high school. And then I learned basketball after that.

(Speaker 1)
Got the hoop on the garage, you know, and stood out there for hours just, you know, you know, bombing away and bombing away and a turning point. came when I was a freshman at Campbell High School. I went out for, that’s how small I was, I was playing C basketball as a freshman. I was fairly real skinny and I hadn’t had a real big growing spurt yet. And when I talked the varsity coach into letting me be the manager, the guy that’s got the towels and the water bottles and all that stuff, I wanted to be on that bench with these varsity players, you know, they look like guys bigger than life to me. I mean, they were, you know, basketball was a pretty, pretty prevalent high school sport back in those days. The gyms were packed every, every night, you know, and one guy, a guy named Randy Weatherspoon, Weatherstrom, sorry, he took it upon himself to would stay after practice and he and I would play one on one for until I gave up, you know.

(Speaker 1)
And that was a turning point in my basketball career. But I became a much better player after that. And then I went to Mount Whitney High School after that. And I started my junior and senior year and was all conference and volley. I was a pretty good basketball player, to be honest with you. But baseball just came about.

(Speaker 1)
I got the note, came to the school. The teacher hands out the little note. It’s like, oh, look, Little League signups for baseball on a clock. Yep, that’ll be me. I played every sport I could possibly play. And back to your question, that’s, I think, got me beyond. If you’re having success and people are paying attention to you and they want you on their team, all these things that go along with it.

(Speaker 1)
that, that I’m assuming that that took that part, filled in for that part, you know, that you referred to.

(Speaker 2)
What sport did you enjoy playing the most in high school? What sport were you the most excited about?

(Speaker 1)
I tell you what, Clay, when I was in high school, I couldn’t wait to get on the basketball court or the baseball field for practice. I wanted to go to practice more than anything during the day. And I was a very good student, majoring in math and science up to a point, pretty crucial point in my coming along days there as a senior in high school. But I just like, I quit playing football because I was afraid I would get hurt. I was now tall and skinny. But just to be out there.

(Speaker 1)
And I think when you start getting to the high school levels, The urge or the need and the challenge of competing is what really separates the men from the boys, if you ask me. That willingness to compete is pretty much the thing that I really, I’m a much better team player than an individual player.

(Speaker 12)
Yeah.

(Speaker 2)
The way it works for professional baseball, correct me if I’m wrong, but most athletes, if you’re really good or a standout athlete in the high school level, you then typically get drafted or you go play professional baseball. A lot of athletes will skip college. They’ll go play professional. What was your fork in the road? What happened to you after high school?

(Speaker 1)
Well, that was what happened to me. I was overwhelmed by 20 of the 24 teams. Seriously, by the time I was a senior. So I got very lucky again. When I went to Visalia, to go to Mount Whitney High School, one of my best friends, a guy I still talk to, he’s the best high school athlete I’d ever seen. He was already being scouted.

(Speaker 1)
See, the scouts were already on him. So all of a sudden, I just appeared out of nowhere and they’re like, hey, who’s this guy? And so they, of course, started paying attention to me. They had to because I started doing very, very well, very well. And so I was very lucky. One day, Mr. Al, his dad, the Alfano’s, his dad called me and said, Mike, we’re going to go to a, back then they were called, it was a tryout camp in Wasco, California, down by Bakersfield.

(Speaker 1)
He says, do you want to go? And I said, I guess I have no idea what is a tryout. You mean I can try out for a team right now? I’m, I’m a sophomore in high school. I go, no, no, no. You go down and he explained it to me.

(Speaker 1)
Yeah, I went. And again, you know, I just, when I stepped on the mound out there for Larry Barton senior and Larry Barton junior that day, both red scouts, you know, that started the whole thing. They saw something in me. They followed me plus all these other scouts now, you know, and then I was a high draft pick out of high school. And then I went through every level of minor league ball. I went to Billings and, and a ball and double a triple a.

(Speaker 1)
Then I went back to triple a second year before I got called up.

(Speaker 2)
When did you feel like, wow, I’m going to play pros. The Big Show, the Major League Baseball. When did you, when did that a moment occur to you where you go, You know what, I’m getting it done, and I’m gonna play in the Big Show?

(Speaker 1)
Oh, in the Big Leagues? Or just getting in? I can play in pro ball.

(Speaker 2)
Big Leagues.

(Speaker 1)
Okay, because the playing in pro ball was a major thing, you know, because you’re, at the time, I was very naive. And I actually had to go into the biology class and get my coach say, we’re having a meeting. I took him into the lab. That’s where he went when he wanted to have a meeting. He had to go into the lab and close the door.

(Speaker 1)
He was my baseball coach, great guy, 25 years. Anyway, I said, Shaz, I said, am I getting drafted? He goes, well, yeah. I go, well, what the hell is that? I was actually kind of upset that it was kind of a secret, you know, because at that moment I had it like, oh my gosh, you know, what am I going to do? I had to make some decisions.

(Speaker 1)
And so that was a big deal back then. But I think when I got invited to Big League Camp, as the way the things work out, after your third year, the clubs, if they want to protect you, they have to put you on the 40 -man roster. Otherwise, the teams can take you at a higher level, and you can move on. So in order to protect you, they put you on the 40 -man roster. So after my AA year, I got put on the roster. invited to spring training in 77 with the Reds and they had just won two World Series, you know.

(Speaker 1)
So, at that point, you know, you’re walking around with your chest is way out, you know, your head’s this big because you’re part of this big red machine thing, you know. And of course, I’m sitting around looking at the pitching staff and evaluating and trying to learn, you know, and there’s guys there like Gary Nolan and Jack Billingham and Don Gullit, Pedro Bourbon and guys like that. And, you know, you just, you know, I think after, especially after the year I had in 1978 at the AAA level, I was, in fact, I was, I had lost to a game two to one. in Rosenblatt Stadium that night in Omaha. So I lost that game and then we flew into Oklahoma City, right down the road from here. And I got the call at like three o ‘clock in the morning, said, you’re gonna go to the big leagues.

(Speaker 1)
So I was thinking back then, that yeah, I could pitch at the big leagues. I think I deserve to be on that team and so forth. Sparky called me in and said, yo, you’re, there was only four days left in spring training and they waited that long and then called me in and said, you know, we’re going to, you’re not going to make the club. I know you’re upset and you, you know, you probably can pitch here, but you’re going to have to like force us to bring you up. And he said that to me and I didn’t know what that meant. I said, do you want me to pull a gun on you or what do you want me to do?

(Speaker 1)
I didn’t know what that meant, you know, Clay. So then it worked out after that. You know, I got a chance in July, Billy Bonham hurt his elbow and then I got called up.

(Speaker 2)
Now, on the pro roster, for people that aren’t familiar with Major League Baseball, and I want you to really educate us on this, how many guys are on the team? And what’s the camaraderie like when you’re a rookie at the Major League Baseball level? What was the energy like, the camaraderie, and how many guys are on that team?

(Speaker 1)
Well, now I’m referring to my, I can only speak for my time, because some of these things they’re doing now, I’m not sure what they’re doing. But it was a 40 -man roster, and that means you could have 15 players in the minor leagues and 25 players in the big league team. And those 15 players that were down, go up and down. You could only go up and down three times back then.

(Speaker 2)
I don’t want you to get yourself in trouble or me in trouble. I’m just asking, what was the locker room like? like when you were coming up versus today’s players? Because, you know, today I look at the game. I see a lot of players. They’re wearing like these face masks, almost like a football helmet covering their face.

(Speaker 2)
Half the players are wearing pads everywhere. People kind of slide into second gingerly. I like the way you played. I mean, you got people like Pete Rose taking out the catcher during the all -star game. People like yourself throw in all different varieties of intense It looked like I was trying to find some old school footage of you. I was watching.

(Speaker 2)
It looked like you had a very intense competitive energy when you pitched. I mean, there’s a lot. The game just seemed a lot more intense. And now there seems to be a lot of hugging before and after the game. It doesn’t seem to be a politically correct era. What was it like in the locker room when you played?

(Speaker 1)
It just depended on the clubs, Clark. I played in 18 different clubhouses. Each year is a different team. And they were all kind of different. You’ve got guys that are doing certain things. You’ve got guys that are not doing certain things.

(Speaker 1)
You know, back then, you could play some music in the clubhouse until it got overwhelming. You know, we had to go to the Latin guys and say, okay, I’ve heard enough of the tin can and the cowbell. Can you turn that off now for a couple hours? You know, that kind of stuff. But it was, for me, because I came into a clubhouse with all these superstars. Okay.

(Speaker 1)
I’m, I’m put right in there. I walked in there and Bernie Stowe said, you’re right there. And I went right here and he goes, yep. I’m in between George Foster and Ken Griffey, you know, and down at the other, and down at the other end of the clubhouse is the, or the infield area. you know, like Rose Davey and Joe Morgan at the other end or the lower rent guy, the lower level guys headed by Chief Geronimo and across right directly across from me is Johnny and Tom Seaver. They took up the whole wall over there.

(Speaker 1)
They had two or three lockers each because they had so much stuff. But that clubhouse was challenging. I’ll put it like that. OK, it was challenging. And, uh, you had to, you had to really get your act together. If you were going to maintain or stay, they didn’t, you know, they, back then we’d have never thought of doing all this stuff that they do with this home run with the jackets and the things and the hats.

(Speaker 1)
And the guy at Los Angeles throws a hand, wait till he throws a handful of sunflower seeds in Otani’s eyeball and does something to his eyeball, you know, to the Tosco Hernandez, whatever his, every time somebody hits a home run, he throws a handful of sunflower seeds in their face, stuff like that. We didn’t think about doing that.

(Speaker 20)
A high five was about as excited as we got.

(Speaker 2)
Women. Women reporters. Was there women reporters in the locker rooms back then? Because now, I mean, it seems like there’s women reporters on the field, women reporters in the locker room. There’s women everywhere.

(Speaker 10)
Was that a common practice?

(Speaker 1)
No. It came in at the end of my career. The one or two gals from the Bay Area, they’re still there. They let them. They had to come and we had to have a team meeting. And they handed out these little, it looked like they were towel Velcro skirts, a skirt, like a mini skirt that you could wrap around you because, I mean, guys are used to just walking around, you know, like you said, that clubhouse.

(Speaker 1)
you know, I was in some bad clubhouses and I was in some really good clubhouses and a wild clubhouse is fighting. I mean, I could, you know, a whole bunch of fights in the clubhouse. I mean, all kinds of stuff going on in there. Just picture, you know, I don’t know, kind of a, like an alley with a bunch of different businesses going on there and all these people are put in the alley and you’re, you got to work and function pretty soon.

(Speaker 2)
Somebody’s going to get mad, you know, But yeah, the girls came in at the end of my career. Now, fast forward, you know, 1989, 1989, my father is working at Quick Trip Gas Stations. It’s a convenience store. My dad’s working the night shift to provide for the family, and I appreciate him for doing that. May he rest in peace. And he would come off, we’d get off of work, and I would set my alarm for three in the morning so I could see my dad and say hello to him once he got off night shift.

(Speaker 2)
And we would watch the reruns of the San Francisco 1989 Giants because they would play the rerun. And for some reason, the San Francisco games were always reruns on ESPN in Tulsa, Oklahoma. And so I was always watching San Francisco Giants reruns. And I feel like I was as engaged as I ever was or ever will be with the sports team that year, the 1989 San Francisco Giants. You guys went on to compete in the World Series versus the Oakland Athletics in the World Series, which was interrupted by a earthquake. I mean, there’s so much history there.

(Speaker 1)
What was it like being on the 1989 San Francisco Giants? Well, it was a, again, another different type of a year for me because at the, during the 88 season, by the way, I, at this point now, I want to tell you, I, I, as a pitcher, I’m, I’m doing very, very well, believe it or not. I am. And, but during the 88 season, the 88 season, I defeated a pain in my elbow. I went and got an x -ray and I saw that I had a bone spurt in my elbow.

(Speaker 1)
So that means there’s probably some garbage flying around in there. So I went, eventually I shut it down. Uh, I gave up seven runs and didn’t get out of the first in Pittsburgh, flew back to the Bay area and had surgery on my right elbow. And at the end of the season. Roger Craig and Norm Sherry and Al Rosen, all the brass, they called me into Roger’s office and they said, hey, next year, would you like to be our closer? You know, like, oh boy, are you kidding me?

(Speaker 1)
And they’re like, no, we think you got the stuff and the mentality, you know, you can do it. I go, well, you know, I don’t want to say no, I said, but you know, I want to be given a legitimate shot at doing this. OK, if you’re going to you’re going to take me out of my my bread and butter, which is a, you know, I’m a rotation guy and, uh, you know, to take this on, but you’ve got to let me, you know, do this. You know, the first time I blow blow one, you can’t be flipping out, you know?

(Speaker 19)
And they said, Oh no, no, no.

(Speaker 18)
You know?

(Speaker 1)
Okay. So I started the, if you look in the 89 year, I started the season and I was the closer and I saved the six games the first month of the season. But then the kiss of death, I gave up a home run to Eddie, uh, Eddie Murray in candlestick. to lose a ballgame against the Dodgers, and they hated me after that. I came out and saved the next night. I came right out and shut them down and got a save.

(Speaker 1)
It didn’t matter. They hated me, and I got ridiculed and second -guessed after that to a point where he’s bringing me in in the sixth and seventh inning. And it’s not working. And then finally, what happened was some guys’ injuries and some guys coming back. And then they decided to make a trade for Bedrosian to try to get a legitimate closer.

(Speaker 1)
They said, well, we’re going to put you back in the rotation. I said, well, it’s about time. And they put me back in there. And I flourished going down the stretch.

(Speaker 2)
And you can look it up. Now, you, just to be clear, I mean, you were the 1987 Giants Pitcher of the Year, 1979 National League All -Star, 1977 Indianapolis Indians Pitcher of the Year. And you played for 18 seasons. Nobody plays for 18 seasons. Nobody. I mean, nobody plays for 18 seasons.

(Speaker 1)
Just to be clear, no NFL players.

(Speaker 2)
10, 15%. About 10, 15 % do. And I’m not going to argue with you. I would just say, you know what? That’s it. I mean, it’s so rare that someone plays 18 seasons.

(Speaker 2)
I mean, professional sports, basketball, NFL, you don’t hear pro athletes play in 18 seasons. It’s very rare. And yet you did it. And so I want to ask you, you’re in the locker room with a Will Clark. You’re in the locker room with a Kevin Mitchell. You’re in the locker room with Matt Williams.

(Speaker 2)
These are guys who went on to play baseball at a high level. These are guys who contended for an MVP. These are guys who are perennial all -stars. found a way and a path to play at a high level for 18 seasons. When you’re in an environment where it’s that competitive, what was the pro tip?

(Speaker 1)
What’s your mindset? How did you make your career span 18 years? Well, again, it’s luck. Part of it’s luck. I don’t care what anybody says. It’s just luck.

(Speaker 1)
I lost you visually, but it’s luck. But at the same time, at the same time, you have to be able to go out and at some point, decide that you’re going to try to outwork your peers. And I mean, you realize that your bodies and staying in shape and strength and so forth is playing a huge role at keeping you on the field, you know. So if you can get in, get into that kind of a mode, which I’ve I’ve never had that problem. See, I’ve always been able to go out and hustle and run and weights weren’t a big thing back in our day. The Nautilus machines came out.

(Speaker 1)
We had red Nautilus machines that were brand new, put in the Reds clubhouse, brand new. They’d never been out before. So now here comes more training. Johnny Bench never lifted a weight. One of the strongest humans you’ll ever lay your hand, don’t want to put his hands on you. And it’s because he’s lifting 50 gallon, 100 gallon balls of propane with his dad, Ted, in Oklahoma.

(Speaker 1)
you know, with the business, you know, use their hands, you know, look at their look at their arms, some of the hands and the arms on the greatest hitters that ever played maze. These guys, they’re all giant hands. They didn’t lift weights. They didn’t do that stuff. Guys, you have, of course, guys, weightlifting did help me extend my career once I had elbow surgery. But for me, I again, the other part that helped me was coming up in the Reds organization.

(Speaker 1)
The Reds organization back in those days, in those 70s days, were very special. They had better scouts. They had above better average coaching philosophies. Bob Howsam came from the Cardinals over to the Reds. and he brought about five guys with him and they ran the minor leagues. And we were taught like as a pitcher, even though I was at the Reds, as a pitcher, I could go manage, coach, I could hit infield.

(Speaker 1)
I know all the cutoffs and relays, the rundowns, the pickoff plays, the bunk plays. I can do anything on a baseball field because of the way we were taught as a Reds minor league player. And so that carried over. You see me pick, I sent you a video of me picking off Vince Coleman. Yet I, I used to get criticized as being this or this, you know, as a, as a, you know, a defensive player of like that. So that kind of motivated me to do something like that just to show Tim McCarver, who’s a Saint who, who put a bad scouting report against me, you know, in a book as a Saint, you know, he’s a St. Louis Cardinal.

(Speaker 1)
So I’m like, well, I’m going to show you. And so I brought Uribe in one day and I said, when these guys come into town, I’m going to We’re going to pick him off and today we’re going to go out and work on it. I’m gonna show you how to do it. I showed Jose Uribe how we’re going to pick him off.

(Speaker 2)
And by God, he got out there and I picked his ass off. Not once, but twice. I want to interject this real quick for people that don’t know this. Vince Coleman was known at that time, what Vince Coleman and Ricky Henderson were probably the two most prolific base stealers in baseball at the time.

(Speaker 13)
So Vince Coleman was not a guy who was getting picked off.

(Speaker 1)
Maybe I exaggerated that, but I believe that Vince Coleman and Ricky Henderson were the top two base stealers at that time. Yes. He had broke that record that one year. He went over 100 -something stolen bases. And so I told Jose, I said, I called him Nino. He was my locker right next to me.

(Speaker 1)
There was nobody on my left. And I told him, I said, hey, Cardinals are coming in.

(Speaker 12)
We’re gonna, he don’t speak any good English, you know, Jose.

(Speaker 1)
I said, I told him, I said, we’re gonna pick him off. He’s, oh, okay. And Bob Lillis came out there, the infield coach and everybody, they came out and I showed him how we’re gonna do this and how it’s gonna be done. And see you later, Vinny. You take a big, long walk off that big ballpark from the field to the dugout over there.

(Speaker 2)
I picked him off first, too. First base.

(Speaker 1)
When you were playing at that high level, did you have a lot of fun during the game, or was it more so fun after the game? Were you having fun while competing at that high level? Yeah, I was one of the guys. Now, I don’t know. Again, I can’t speak for the way the players are now, because they’ve got like 19 coaches. So I’m one of the guys.

(Speaker 1)
that is operating during the game against the other team. I’m looking for any, I’m, you know, I’m a big time analyst and I’m watching anything on about the other team that I can pass on to take advantage of them. That’s, I’m like a, I’m like a spy or a thief or something, you know, not a bad, in a bad way, but I’m trying to, if they’re exposing something, then I’m the one that approaches the players and the coaches and, Roger even came, counted on me a couple of times. He said, Hey, do you know when this guy’s cheating? I’m like, yeah. He’s like, well, why in the hell didn’t you tell me?

(Speaker 1)
And I said, well, you never asked me before. So, and then I went and told him and then an inning later, he was eight runs. See you later. He’s walking to the shower because, and, uh, we, they made a trade with Mackie Sasser to the Mets and he had the heebie jeebies. He couldn’t throw the ball back to the pitch. And I’m watching this.

(Speaker 1)
We’re in the dugout. The game’s starting in Shea Stadium. And I’m watching this, and he’s dropping to his knees and then flipping the ball back. And of course, we got the perfect guy on the mound. We got David Cones out there. He’s a little bit of a hothead at times, you know.

(Speaker 1)
So he’s out there. So right away, after the first time through the lineup, I got it figured out. Brett Butler comes back in. He’s leading off for us. I said, here’s what you’re going to do. You’re going to get on.

(Speaker 1)
You’re going to steal second. And what’s going to happen is when he drops to his knees, you’re going to take off for third base. It’s going to piss Cone off, because now he knows that we’ve exposed this. He’s going to flip out out there. We’re going to get him. Guess what happened?

(Speaker 1)
He got on, stole second, and then he does the out to second base on the pitch, drops it, and then takes off for third and goes in standing up. No throw, because he can’t throw. So now he’s mad. and he starts overthrowing out there and he hits Chili Davis right in the butt with a slider. And then, so now we got a big inning going and then pretty soon, about five runs later, see you later, he’s out of there. So that’s the kind of stuff I’m doing.

(Speaker 1)
I’m the guy screaming at the umpires and I’m screaming at the other players from the dugout. I’m doing, I’m all over the place, you know.

(Speaker 2)
Candlestick though was different. I had to go in for coffee about every two or three innings, it’s freezing. Now, you know, your your career, you mentioned names like Brett Butler, you know, I used to just absolutely love watching Brett Butler, he had a fascinating way of getting on getting on base. This was the leader. He had just this fascinating way of getting on base. And I he was a guy who was getting on base before they started putting in a lot of

(Speaker 2)
metrics where people were taped. Now today’s baseball there’s a lot of stats that go into it where they’re going to track your on base percentage. Back when I was playing baseball you would track what someone’s batting average was and certain stats but Brett was like one of the innovators of getting on base.

(Speaker 1)
Could you comment on Brett Butler’s ability to get on base. I mean he was a fantastic leadoff hitter. Facing him, he was a big pain in the ass because he’s just up there to make contact. He’ll swing so late, you know, and foul the ball literally right out of the glove, foul it off, chop it, and then take off like a bat out of hell and beat it out or get the walk. He’s got the small strike zone or he’s bunting, bunting and bunting and bunting. I think Will said when you interviewed Will that he did.

(Speaker 1)
He would have about 30 plus base, bunt base hits per year. So he was just a big pain in the ass, you know, as a leadoff guy, you know. And that was him. He had to be poked a little bit every now and then. He’d kind of get down on himself and kind of walk with his head going like this. I had to go by and, hey, hey, hey, slap him a little bit, say, no, come on, let’s go, a little bit.

(Speaker 1)
But no, he was a good teammate and a prolific leadoff guy. They have leadoff guys now, though, to hit home runs. It’s a different game. But I played with all those guys. I played with them during a period of time played that there was a, if you look, there’s the most Hall of Famers are going to come out of the, that era. It was tough, you know, to play, you go into Philadelphia and you got Schmidt and, and, and Boa and Leszczynski and Bake McBride and Carlton.

(Speaker 2)
And I mean, and it was a, it was a rough deal. You go to Pittsburgh and it’s Stargill and Parker and it was on and on, you know. But you played too, you know, my dad played baseball at a very high level, Little League and then in high school, and then he got hurt and never really played at that next level. Pat Zachary, who was a friend of yours, who was a friend of yours, was a great friend of my father. And guys like Pat, I remember hearing stories directly from Pat Zachary and people of that era, you guys pitched massive amounts of innings. I mean, you guys, it was a different level.

(Speaker 2)
I mean, I think, I don’t want to exaggerate. I don’t want to get my facts wrong here. But I just remember it was a very common thing for a guy like you as a starter to go in there at the high school level, at the college level, at the pro level.

(Speaker 1)
You were pitching significant amounts of innings. How is that in contrast to today’s pitchers? Completely different. Completely different. Yes, and even in high school. You know, I didn’t come out of the game.

(Speaker 1)
I threw five, six complete game shutouts in a row in high school, you know, and that was nothing. And then you get into pro ball, and now the demand is really increased by 1978, which puts me four years out of high school. That year I pitched 260 innings, you know. I pitched 130 -something in Indianapolis before I got called up. I pitched another 90 in the big leagues that year, and then I pitched another 35 or 40 innings in Japan against the Japanese. And then I came back in 1979 and had a great year, you know, pretty good year until September.

(Speaker 1)
But I still, and I had a good responsive arm. And I think, I don’t know if I told you this, but I have a San Francisco Giants record right now that I think based on what we’re seeing is going to stand a long time.

(Speaker 4)
I don’t know when it’s going to be broken.

(Speaker 1)
And that is I have not one, but two, 10 inning complete game victories.

(Speaker 2)
10. Wow.

(Speaker 1)
They’re not going to do that. What pitches were you throwing? For people out there who are not familiar with baseball, a skilled pitcher at the Major League Baseball level is going to have four, five, two, three different kinds of pitches. By then, I always sunk my fastball. And I cut it every now and then, so that’s two.

(Speaker 2)
And then I had a finger up curveball that I developed, I got from Don Sutton. Then I had a split finger that I developed kind of on my own, but I could sink it and cut it.

(Speaker 1)
So those were basically my pitches. Forgive me if I’m asking questions that aren’t at your level of expertise, but I want you to break it down for the average person watching. When you grip a baseball, can you explain the different pitches you threw and how you would grip a ball and how that impacts the way the ball makes its way to the plate? Yeah, so the crucial moment of everything, delivery, windup, I don’t care what you’re doing, but the crucial moment is the position of these two fingers at the moment of release point. That’s the moment the ball leaves your hand. Where is the position of those fingers on the baseball?

(Speaker 1)
And of course, in relation with the seams, okay? And so that’s what makes the ball do whatever it’s going to do. In other words, if I’m going to sink my fastball at release point, my two fingers have to be on the inside half of the baseball at release point in order to get the kind of cock angled backwards spin to get it to rotate and go down.

(Speaker 12)
If I’m going to throw a curveball at release point, my fingers have to be like this.

(Speaker 2)
The ball comes over the top of those fingers, see? So it’s just the positioning of your fingers that makes the ball do, and of course the seam enhances the movement. Is that good? No, this is great.

(Speaker 1)
And what are you talking about with the pitcher, with the catcher during the game? You’re a pure pitcher for everybody who’s not super familiar. The pitcher, in this case, you get on the round. Yeah, before all the computers and information highways, we had advanced scouts that would go. And they’re out a couple of series ahead of us watching the teams that we’re going to play over the next week or two. And so we’re constantly getting an envelope FedEx to the ballpark with the individual scouting reports on all the hitters that we’re going to face it comes in and That that day that it comes in first game of a series.

(Speaker 1)
We pitchers and catchers we meet and Bob Brantley pulls out the or Johnny pulls out the Reports and goes over all their scouting reports with all the pitchers sitting in there So we have an idea who’s hot who’s not who’s doing what or whatever. We just have an idea. We’re not necessarily saying how to pitch the guy because Nolan has his pitches are different than me. So I can’t I’m not going to pitch him the same way. I just have an idea of what the guy’s doing.

(Speaker 2)
And that’s really all you can tell once you cross that line out there. I always have a saying for you here. You remember this saying that if you ever want to know how good you’re doing the hitters will let you know.

(Speaker 1)
Now you played for 18 seasons and I’m sure you have some low points in your mind but I want to focus on the highlights. Was there any moments in your career where you look back and you say wow, this right here was the highlight of your professional baseball career, or a couple of highlights? Yeah, the highlights, I think we touched on them a little bit. Of course, I played in an All -Star game, which was just mind -blowing at the time. I was only a second -year player.

(Speaker 1)
I should have made it in 86, but Whitey Herzog snubbed me and Bob Ojeda, two Visalia boys. And then the moment you realize you’re going to go and play in the World Series, man, that’s really an emotional high, I think, for most people. And I believe for a lot of guys that didn’t experience that. See, I was already experienced at the time. But if you ever wonder how you see in the World Series and the playoffs, you’ll see from year to year, whatever, you’ll see a lot of players from certain teams that haven’t been in it. And they swing, and they really expand the strike zone.

(Speaker 1)
And that’s because they’re not experienced, see? And they try to do too much. And those teams that win, like you saw George Springer, you know, he just, just like it was batting practice, man, last night, launched that. Just like BP, because experience. He’d been there many times before. That guy throws a little nothing sinker, kind of middle in, 94, and then see you later.

(Speaker 1)
He was ready for it. He didn’t miss it, see? And that’s experience. So highlights, you know, I think, I don’t know. I think the day that I was drafted was pretty exciting to know that you’re, you know, the draft, you know, and you’re going to now go into pro ball. It was pretty exciting and stuff like that.

(Speaker 1)
But that moment when you realize you’re going to go play in a World Series, that’s pretty exciting. When did you recognize that you were going to retire or that your baseball career was coming to an end? When did you recognize, OK, that’s a real downer, a real downer. Throw me into a tailspin. I was having such a good time playing. But well, again, now call it luck or I got to readjust myself with my seat here.

(Speaker 1)
We call it luck or the work ethic. But you see, I pitched the last seven years of my big league career. I pitched with a torn ACL on my left knee. Nobody’s nobody’s ever done that. No. And so what happened, what what was happening is I would keep hurting it, injuring it.

(Speaker 1)
You know, I had I ended up having two arthroscopies on it, you know, and and it just took the wind out of my sail. The last time it happened, it was in 1990 and I was just flat out dealing. I was like third in the league in the R . A. and I was three, you know. And then, of course, I lost, I left the game with one runner on, typical me, and I lost that game one to nothing, okay?

(Speaker 1)
So, and then I developed, in my forearm, I developed, I guess what you’d call just a severe tendinitis, where my entire forearm, down around the nerve and so forth, my forearm’s like a rock, and I was really struggling, and of course, media was on me and the fans were on me and I had enough of this and enough of that I’m and I really was I was kind of stupid for not doing the opposite but I just you know they called me in one day, July 4th, and said, you know, we’re gonna make a change, you know, let you go and stuff. I’m like, yeah, whatever, yeah.

(Speaker 2)
I was kind of glad at the time, but then I was sad, you know. I just kind of like had enough, because when you can’t go out there, and I won’t say be 100%, because that’s, you can forget that. You’re very rarely are you ever gonna go out there and be 100 % once you’ve got five, seven, nine, 10, 12 years, you’re going to have something.

(Speaker 1)
But just to have that decent feeling of knowing that if I’m on, if I’m on today, I’m going to be able to go out and shut these guys down. I don’t care who they are.

(Speaker 2)
Now, during the final 15 minutes or so that we have with you today, I’ve got three big questions I want to ask you. And I hope we leave you on a really good note here. So I’ve got three questions for you. I can roll extra innings if you need. So it’s not a big deal. Well, first off, I would love to.

(Speaker 2)
My schedule is so crazy with back -to -back interviews. I appreciate you working with my schedule. I really do. Anytime. I grew up cheering for Will Clark in a really irrational way. I was left -handed.

(Speaker 2)
Will was left -handed. I wore 22. He wore 22. I played first base. He played first base.

(Speaker 1)
I hit very well at the high school slash middle school level. And so Will was like the guy. I was just watching Will. And I’ve had the honor to interview Will.

(Speaker 14)
But do you have any story about Will that you could share about just, you know, Will being Will?

(Speaker 1)
OK, do you have a Will being Will story? I got a whole bunch of them. So I’ve got to, let me shuffle through the deck and the Rolodex to see where I, want to come out with G or PG or, you know, so forth. First of all, I’ll tell you something that’s kind of funny. So, but it’s kind of, this is how I, I didn’t, I didn’t know who Will Clark was. Okay.

(Speaker 1)
So that’s how naive I was. I came from Kansas city and American league. I, I called the Giants in February, talked to Al Rosen. He invited me to camp to make the team. Bob Kennedy was a big fan of mine. They mentioned Bob Kennedy.

(Speaker 1)
So anyways, I get invited to 86 camp, you know, San Francisco Giants Scottsdale. So, so, Now, I had been prepared, knowing this was going to happen, so that when I got to spring training, I didn’t have to really get in shape. I was ready to go. I dropped my bag down and told Roger, he said, are you ready to go? And I said, yep, I can go five innings right now. He goes, what?

(Speaker 1)
I go, yes, five innings. So he calls Norm Sherry. They’re like penciling me in. Boy, they can’t wait to get start, because we’ve got a bunch of guys now fighting for jobs, me, Rick Rushall, Kelly Downs. A lot of guys are after these jobs. So here I am one day, I’m out there, and I’m throwing batting practice, okay?

(Speaker 1)
And this dude’s in there, I have no, he’s a young kid, I have no idea who this dude, who he is. And I’m moving the ball around though, see, because I’m not just throwing BP, I’m throwing a couple down the middle, a couple away, a couple in. And when I try to come in, I hit him right on the right elbow. And it was kind of towards the end of my thing, and I finished the BP, and then I went out to center field, and I was standing out there by, Mike Krukow and Bob Brantley. And I’m, and I’m noticing, man, they’re making a big deal with this guy’s hit on the elbow, like ambulances are coming. And there’s about 100 people around.

(Speaker 1)
I’m going, holy shit.

(Speaker 18)
I said, What the hell?

(Speaker 1)
I didn’t, you know, I what happened? And they go, they’re laughing at me going how you dumbass don’t you? You hit their number one prospect in the army. I went oh jeez I said well that’s the end of me I won’t make this team I’ll be I’m gonna get I’m gonna get jacked out but we became very very close friends at the time you know as a veteran you know helping some of the rookies he and Robbie Thompson and Uribe and these guys were all young and you had then all of a sudden here’s comes a an influx of very crafty very good veteran ballplayers Youngblood, Russell, You know, Jeffrey Leonard, Brenly, Spire was still playing. And we had a bunch, a bunch of pretty good veteran ballplayers with these young guys. Okay.

(Speaker 1)
And so, of course, Will had to be taken out to dinner and so forth. And he had to be, we became, we were outdoorsmen together. And he took two guys to his family’s house when we, we played an exhibition game in New Orleans.

(Speaker 2)
He invited me and Jeff Brantley to his house to get the old proverbial Louisiana -style crawfish dinner.

(Speaker 1)
They just dumped a bunch of crap on the table, and his dad brought a bucket in between Will and I, and he goes, that’s ours. It was great. We had a great time. We did a lot of stuff together. We did a lot of things together. Now, the next question I have here for you is, if you think back at your career, and you think about just the craziest moments that you could share, or the craziest moment, just the hyperbolic, most wild Major League moment, do you have one you look back at and go, man, that right there was wild times, or maybe a wild season, or a wild ride, any particular moment that stands out to you?

(Speaker 1)
Well, like I said, I came up with the big red machine, and that was a different, that was a whole different world, you know, being around that. those guys and then when they started peeling them off. and started wearing off, it was, it was kind of depressing. I went to Houston for three years. I played with Nolan and Joe Necro and Phil Garner and Art Howe and great guys, man, Jose Cruz and Jerry Mumphrey and a bunch of good guys, man. But, but we’d ever won anything per se.

(Speaker 1)
I had a nightmare year at Kansas city. Uh, I, I, The collusion thing was something out of outer space to me. I think of what you’re mentioning. I couldn’t imagine the owners basically what you call price fixing on players in order to hold down and ruin their free agency. And that actually happened to me. That’s how I got to the Giants. When I went to the Giants now as a veteran player and with the good young players, a new manager that was a pretty good You know players manager, you know Roger and I we had a we had a really interesting another whole podcast for Roger and I okay, and You talk about some emotional times being a giant you’re a Giants you’re that was some some emotional thing going from a club that had lost a hundred games in 85 and now all of a sudden I make the team and I’m like third starter and I’m man I I’m coming on and you know, I should have had a The big year at 86 and they basically be honest with you they quit scoring runs for me I led both National League and American League starting pitchers in one run losses, seven of them, and I just couldn’t, I just couldn’t win, Turner, you know, got the ball again and at 87 and I end up, you know, leading

(Speaker 1)
the team in wins and some other stuff. And I was on my way to having another good year in 88.

(Speaker 2)
My elbow had blown up and then 89 was a big turnaround year for me. We got in the World Series and, you know, and then those injuries. So, but being in the Giants clubhouse was probably the most, the craziest thing, some of the craziest things. And I can’t even talk about a lot of the stuff, you know, but it was pretty wild. And I’ve know of and have heard of other clubhouses being even more crazy than our clubhouses. We were, you know, we had a lot, you remember, guys still played, they still played cards and drank coffee and smoked cigarettes back then, you know, believe it or not.

(Speaker 2)
You know, I wanna, now again, if I had to title today’s show, to me, it’s how to sustain excellence.

(Speaker 1)
I mean, you’re a guy who for 18 seasons, played at the Major League Baseball level.

(Speaker 17)
And maybe that’s not what you want to title today’s show.

(Speaker 2)
But I want to ask you this, because I’m a guy that interviews successful people, and I like to know how they did it.

(Speaker 1)
What advice would you have for the entrepreneurs out there that are watching this show, out of business guys, who are trying to sustain success? I mean, you performed at the highest level for 18 seasons. What would be your advice for anybody out there that’s trying to sustain excellence like you did? In the business world?

(Speaker 2)
Yeah. Or any, any endeavor. Yeah. Well, you know, I’ve had, uh, just like my baseball career, I’ve had some success and I’ve failed miserably, uh, at the business world. And I think what you can do is something I think you refer to is you must surround yourself with people smarter than you and that have a, that get on the same page.

(Speaker 1)
Because if you think you’re going to go out and just roll along, I don’t know how big, you know, people think you’re going to be. get or whatever But if you’re gonna have any size or anything, you know scalability out you’re gonna have to have you’re gonna have to seek out just like a Scout will seek out the best ballplayers for the organization. You’re gonna have to seek out the best people to work with I interviewed Darryl strawberry a while back. Daryl’s been on our show a couple of times, and I’ve invited him to speak at our church, and so I’ve gotten to be friends with Daryl. And Daryl, I mean, he talks about just the crazy life choices he made before turning his life around, and he credits that to his faith, his newfound faith in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. You know, Daryl talked about finding a good mentor was huge for him, having somebody that was helping get him out of this self -attacking, self -sabotaging mindset.

(Speaker 1)
Mindset did you ever spend time with with Daryl strawberry not time with him? But of course I played against him for many many many years, you know, I played against him Yeah, I know him a little bit. He’s a he’s a very good guy. I know I know him I know his makeup. I know everything. He’s a very good person and We I don’t know.

(Speaker 1)
I I think that I think if you can get like in you ask any you ask any successful Major League manager, they’ll tell you that the reason they’re successful is because they have good players They’re not going to they’re not going to say, oh, we’re a championship team because I do this and I do that and this and that. They’re going to flat out tell you Sparky would say, I don’t even hardly manage the team. I just I just have George Sugar. Right. These guys eight lineup in the lineup every day and they just go play. If you get involved is how you can mess it up.

(Speaker 16)
And we’re seeing that today, though.

(Speaker 1)
I can tell you that right now from a pitching standpoint. You’re seeing games messed up because of the managers, I don’t know, their perception of the pitching department. Last night was a perfect example.

(Speaker 2)
You can’t take Clay Kirby out of that game in the fourth inning. You’ve got to let those starters go in these games.

(Speaker 1)
And they bring these relievers in, and some of these guys are throwers, not pitchers.

(Speaker 2)
And you saw what happened.

(Speaker 12)
I don’t know.

(Speaker 2)
To have success, like I said, I’ve made some huge mistakes.

(Speaker 1)
And I learned quite a bit. And I’m going to go on 70, and I’m probably not going to do much more except promote my t -shirt that I showed you the other day. OK, let’s say this. Final 60 seconds, if people want to hire you, interview you, maybe bring you on as a consultant, or maybe talk to you about that, or teaching their kid how to play baseball at the high level, if people want to get in touch with you, what’s the best way, Mike, for people to do that? Well, maybe you can give them my email address, Clay. Your email address.

(Speaker 2)
You want me to do that? Do we put that on the show notes, or how do you want me to handle it? You can put my email address. If they want any questions regarding any aspect of the game of baseball, I’m happy to give them any knowledge or experience that I have, especially with the youth today being completely debilitated and ruined by all these different things that are out there. Just ruined.

(Speaker 15)
And it’s all about parents.

(Speaker 1)
not responsible. It’s the parents that are doing this. Okay, I’ll put your email in the show notes. And I totally respect you.

(Speaker 14)
And I respect your time.

(Speaker 2)
And I want to ask you, final 30 seconds, you can share whatever you want, whatever’s on your heart. I’ll give you the final. Well,

(Speaker 1)
Well, yeah, OK. First of all, I’d like to know how you’re doing with Eric’s book. That’s a big thing you’re doing. I think I’ve seen where it hit number one the other day. Is that one of them? It is.

(Speaker 1)
Our team, we’ve been working hard behind the scenes trying to get that book cover just right, get the typeset just right, get everything just right. And it’s fun to see Eric Trump’s book go from an idea into reality and now number one book in America. Right.

(Speaker 13)
Well, good for you.

(Speaker 2)
Congratulations.

(Speaker 1)
And I’m a team player. But I showed you my shirt. And I got a WO. Now, I don’t know if WO is like WO over the top or WO outstanding. Because if you look close at the ammunition coming out of it, by the way, if you notice that, I drew that starting off with pencil and then got the image. Oh, it’s Yosemite Sam.

(Speaker 1)
Can people buy that?

(Speaker 2)
If people want to buy that shirt, can they do that? I’m going to leave it up to you. I’m going to share it with you. Clay, you can own, I want you to own part of it.

(Speaker 1)
You take the baby, you run with it.

(Speaker 2)
I’ve got the artwork right here at Silver City.

(Speaker 1)
We’ll ship that over.

(Speaker 2)
You just start selling them and I’ll give you 50%. I don’t know how good of a t -shirt salesman I am, but I’ll put a picture up on the screen here on the edit so people can see it. And Mike, thank you for carving out time to be here with us today.

(Speaker 1)
I really do appreciate you.

(Speaker 12)
And I’ll put your email in the show notes so people can reach out to you if they have baseball -related questions, especially with those youth that are looking for mentorship.

(Speaker 1)
And the title is just Another Piece of Giants History.

(Speaker 2)
You want the title to be Another Piece of Giants History? Another Piece of Giants History.

(Speaker 1)
Okay, another piece of Giants history.

(Speaker 11)
I’m doing it right now, sir.

(Speaker 4)
I really do appreciate you very much.

(Speaker 1)
Absolutely.

(Speaker 10)
Had fun.

(Speaker 4)
We’ll do it again anytime you’d like. Thank you so much, Mike. Have a great day. Take care, Clay. Bye. But Clay Clark, man, he is one character.

(Speaker 4)
It’s a good word for character. Yeah, that is it. Good, driven, smart.

(Speaker 1)
And I’ve never met a guy who was so hyper all the time.

(Speaker 11)
He’s doing so much good.

(Speaker 4)
And then I met his mother. And she just says, she just lets him be Clay Clark. I mean, so he’s endorsed by his mother. And he’s doing magnificent work. So it was great meeting you out there and all the people that he surrounds himself with.

(Speaker 9)
His clay Clark starts his days at five o ‘clock in the morning.

(Speaker 10)
Oh, it’s incredible.

(Speaker 9)
Yeah.

(Speaker 8)
He’s, he’s like, he’s, he’s a machine. He’s a machine, but his, you know, I could, I have problems with my company starting at nine o ‘clock.

(Speaker 5)
Yes. Hundreds of people showing up at 5 .00 AM in Tulsa, Oklahoma, man. He’s a leader of a leader. He’s fantastic. Yeah, man.

(Speaker 8)
No, he is.

(Speaker 7)
You could be anywhere doing a lot of different things, but you chose to be here.

(Speaker 5)
Clay Clark is here somewhere. Where’s my buddy Clay? Clay’s the greatest. I met his goats today. I met his dogs. I met his chickens.

I saw his compound. He’s like the greatest guy. I ran from his goats, his chickens, his dogs. So this guy’s like the greatest marketer you’ve ever seen, right? His entire life, Clay Clark, his entire life is marketing.

Transcribed with Cockatoo