Business Coach | Anything That is Not Scheduled Will Not Get Done

Business Coach | Ask Clay & Z Anything

Audio Transcription

Business Coach, Clay Clark, and Dr Robert Zoellner Teach you how to manage you time and day.  They hit home that anything that does not get scheduled does not get done.  Learn how to manage and organize your life like the former VP of Walt Disney World, Lee Cockerell.

Learn The Secrets Of Scheduling From The Business Coach : Podcast Transcript

Clay Clark: All right, Thrive Nation, welcome back to the business coach conversation that you love every day. It is the Thrive Time Show, your audio dojo of mojo fo sho and as always, my name is Clay Clark, I’m the former SPA entrepreneur of the year sent here to teach you the specific things you need to do to start and grow a successful business. Z, I’m going to say, today’s show is going to be very fabulous and frothy.

Dr. Robert Zoellner: [chuckles] Fabulous and frothy, those are the two F words. I’m so excited, I had a great morning this morning, I did something that I haven’t done in years.

Clay: What did you do this morning?

Robert: Well, as you know and as most of Tulsa knows, I make radio commercials to advertise my business, my main core business, Dr. Robert Zoellner and Associates. Back in the day when my kids were young, they wold come on and make the commercials with me, TV and radio. Now my daughter has graduated in optometry school and she’s moved back to Tulsa, she’s got licensed in the wonderful state of Oklahoma. Awoo.

Clay: Yes.

Robert: She’s joined the practice and now she’s working in there. This morning she actually went in and made commercials with me for the first time in a very long time. It was just so fun, it’s like boom, there you go.

Clay: It’s huge, a big boom.

Robert: Huge. Boom.

Vanessa Clark: I heard the circle have been completed.

Robert: That’s certain, you complete me. She got on there, she did great. First day, she, of course, sold a hundred percent and I was like, “What? Oh, she did awesome I see”. Yes, you’ll see that quite a bit. Anyway-

Clay: Unbelievable.

Robert: -it was just a heck of a lot of fun.

Clay: Now, inside the business coach box that rocks today, we have an incredible cast of characters. We have my wife of 15 years, the lady who’s been putting up with me for a decade and a half, the mother of our five kids, a great addition to the Thrive team. She’s a wonderful woman, it’s Mrs. Vanessa Clark, how are you little bird?

Vanessa: I’m doing great, thanks.[chuckles]

Clay: Now, we have the guy- he is really a beautiful man and I wish I was related to him, I wish I could say that biologically, somehow we were related. This guy is really my brother from another mother, this is Tulsa’s attorney. You go, “Hey, I need an attorney.” Maybe you’re listening right now and you say, “I don’t need an attorney now,” but when you need an attorney, you need an attorney, when it’s time to have an attorney, you already want to have an attorney. You don’t want to wait until you need an attorney. This is Tulsa’s attorney, Mr. Wes Carter of Winters & King. Wes, how are you?

Wes Carter: I’m doing awesome.

Clay: Now, Wes, Z, Vanessa, we’re talking today about time management, specifically we’re teaching out of chapter seven of the book Jackassery, that I wrote. This is what’s called here, anything that is not scheduled will not happen, okay? Z, I want to ask you this, this is a deep thought here. Bridget, today, was doing-

Robert: Deep, deep thoughts.

Clay: -Deep thoughts.

Robert: Deep thoughts from Dr. Z.

Clay: Okay, so Bridget, today, she’s on the recording schedule with you today, right?


Robert: Yes. We were purposeful and getting her back on the radio.

Clay: She had to be there.

Robert: She’s going to be the future of the business coaching industry.

Vanessa: She’s the face and the voice.

Robert: And the voice.

Clay: Did she mystically appear? or did you schedule a specific time and say, “Hey, let’s meet at this time and let’s record some commercials”?

Robert: I thought I said, “You know what, just show up whenever you want. We’ll do something about something at some time, whenever you feel like it, you just pop on in and it’s all be good.”

Clay: You did schedule it, though, right?

Robert: I went to say, “Hey, sometime today, just come on, it’s okay, it’s good.”

Clay: You’re not going to give her the answer that I’m looking for because I want to pour it out of you.

Robert: Of course, we scheduled it, of course, I gave her directions, of course, I told her exactly where to go, what time to be there and she showed up on time, ready to go, with a positive attitude. We knocked them out, we had a fun time. You’re right, it was scheduled, it was purposeful and if I had done like my little voice was just saying a minute ago and just said, “Hey honey, whenever you want you just pop in.” Of course I–because on your personalities and the production team, their scripts radio is very busy and they have to have scheduled.

Clay: I’ll tell you this, someone’s listening right now and goes, “Yes, but your life is super easy, you don’t have a lot going on, it’s like the more money you make the easier gets to schedule, that’s so easy.”

We’re going to move on to Wes and ask Wes here, Wes, you’ve been in some court rooms, you’ve had to call some clients back, you had to review some legal documents and now you’re here on the Thrive Time Show. Did you have to make a schedule? how do you plan your day? how are you not surprised by the happenings of a day? how do you map put your day?

Wes: Everything goes on in a calendar for me, I am a believer in calendaring everything, even if it’s calendaring time to talk to someone, it’s a note to my calendar, call so and so even if they don’t know I’m calling them.

Clay: Okay, you calendar everything. You’re saying, anything that you want to do you put into a schedule?

Wes: A schedule yes, that I can get too from multiple devices.

Clay: Okay. Now I want to ask the person with the toughest schedule in the room, this is a mom. If you’re a mom and you’re raising kids out there, you got a lot going on, you got five kids– in our case we have five kids and a lot of chickens, she’s trying to put an electrical fence around the property, she’s trying to make sure the kids get to gymnastics, she’s always trying to find someone’s shoe. “Where is the shoe, why can’t we all– there’s always one shoe, why is there not two shoes?” “We don’t know”. This is a bigger issue, will get into that later.

Vanessa, how do you map out your day as a mom? how do you get to a place where you’re not just doing nothing and feeling overwhelmed by just all these demands?

Vanessa: Well, I think it’s important especially for those in our audience who are mompreneurs seeking a business coach, who they may feel they want to make their marriage a priority and focus on their husband, also meet the needs of their kids, be a great mom, but here they are in this startup or whatever business they have. I don’t have my own business but we have our business, so we really prioritize, and like you said, take that time at the beginning of the day. These are the things that must happen, these are the things that are in the businesses schedule today, these are the things that are happening with my children today and then these are the times where I am going to be with my husband today.

You’ve got to wrap all of those different worlds into one schedule.

Clay: Here’s step number one, Thrivers, you must schedule the events of your life that you want to happen. There’s a notable quotable I want to read to you here, this comes out to you from Peter Drucker “Who’s Peter Drucker?” Peter Drucker was the best selling management expert for a lot of people that consider him to be one of the leading experts in modern day management, he says this, he says, ” Time is the scarcest resource of the manager. If it is not managed, nothing else can be managed.”

Let’s go a little deeper into that there, Z. If I’m listening right now and I’m going, “I just feel overwhelmed man, I got text messages flying in, I got emails coming in since this whole internet, the internets, I’ve got now social media, I’ve got email, I’ve got some text thing, the smartphone’s making me dumb. I’m not getting anything done, what do I do?”

Robert: Well, here’s what you do, you just give up, and the beautiful thing about it, with all the people that have access to you, just let them figure out what you’re going to do for the day. Let them drive the boat, put your destiny, your future in their hands. If they’ve got an emergency or they’re going to talk to you about something, then you need to drop what you’re doing and get to your bike.

Clay: There’s a notable quotable Z, I’m thinking of the quote that says, “Let Jesus take the wheel.” It sounds more like, “Just let random people take the boat’s steering wheel”, that’s what you’re saying here.

Robert: You see that happen, so many people their day gets hijacked. It’s like you’re flying your plane, you knock on the pilot door and you open it and some dude’s standing there with a gun and going, “We’re changing the direction of this flight.”

Clay: I think the wise woman wizard has something here.

Vanessa: I was just thinking along the lines of what you’re saying. When you plan out the things that you need to do. I had a realization lately, I need a plan of what I’m not going to do.

Clay: Oh boy.

Robert: Oh.

Vanessa: I had this realization, I’ve been cleaning my house– well, not really, trying to but there’s no time. I don’t have time to clean my house, I need to pay someone to clean my house, maybe–

Robert: How much are you paying?

Vanessa: Not very much, a hundred bucks.

Robert: Okay. Oh well. Sometimes I need extra money, I’m just asking.

Clay: Dr. Z, for 110 he’ll do it.

Vanessa: Listen, maybe I want to pay someone to make some healthy meals but I don’t know so you need to look at your schedule and what is your highest and best use and just let those things go.

Robert: Well, if you’re looking for someone to make healthy meals it’s probably not me, though I do know how to drive to Whole Foods. I do know how to do that because I walk through Whole Foods. I think this is doable.

Clay: I was joking when I started off the show, I said we’re going to make today’s show festive and frothy, but I want to redo the definition of frothy so you understand that I was joking with you a little bit here. Frothy means light and entertaining but of little substance.

Robert: We don’t want that.

Clay: I think there’s a lot of people that– that’s what life is, it’s just light, it’s entertaining but of little substance. They don’t get anything done, it’s just jackassery everywhere.

Robert: What happens is getting back to my analogy, their day gets hijacked and it gets hijacked by somebody who’s wanting you to do something that’s not on your schedule, so now you have this balance. There are sometimes emergencies that pop up and you have to make adjustments throughout the day, we get that, we’re all humans, we’ve all had those kind of days, but for the most part, this is a huge thing, if you get out your calendar from yesterday and you see the things that you had on your calendar from yesterday, then you say to yourself, “Did I get all those things done?” and you might say to yourself, “I did everything on my calendar, there’s nothing on my calendar, that’s probably why at the end of the day I’ve been on Facebook most of the day. I went to my job and did my job but then at the end of the day I watched five hours of Netflix.”

Clay: I had something that just happened today, this is very specific now. You said hijack, you remember Dukes of Hazzard?

Robert: Sure.

Vanessa: Yes.

Clay: Rosco P. Coltrane, who is not a business coach, but there’s that whole of it and then the dog from that show somehow became the QuikTrip Mascot for a while, what was that dog’s name?

Wes: Lamar is what QuikTrip called him, I remember that back in the day.

Clay: You want to avoid getting your day hijacked, let me cue up my hijack music, though.


Clay: Remember the Dukes of Hazzard?

Robert: Yes.

Clay: This song was great and they’re always hijacking people’s cars and the thing was, that Rosco, he used to basically be distracted all the time and he was somehow unaware that someone was climbing into his car, this always happen. It would always be the same two guys by the way, they obviously never served jail time, but they would take his car and he would always be surprised by it.

This is what happened to me today. I had a meeting today it started at 6:00 AM. At 6:00 AM I have a meeting, right after that 6:00 AM meeting I have a 7:00 AM meeting with a property management company. They got here right on time, it’s called, “Property Management Inc.”, we had a very productive meeting and now it’s 8:00 AM and what happened was, this is the thing, I go to change my clothes, I have my suits all hanging up–

Vanessa: You changed at the office?

Clay: Yes, I have my new uniform now, but occasionally I have to wear a suit for these speaking events so I had to go and change into my uniform. I open up my wardrobe nice and early, a couple of hours before I needed to put it on and I look and someone has knocked down the whole thing accidentally and it’s all in a ball. I’m like, “Oh, no” so I call my wonderful wife, she came out and helped me iron all the clothes, get it all together, make it happen and I will say that, one, that’s a problem, but the biggest thing right here is I have to figure out, who hijacked my day? Who is the person that did this thing? and then I’ve got to fix it so it’s not a recurring problem. You have somebody sending you a crazy e-mail and you say, “Quit sending me e-mails”, but then you do it again.

Wes, you see this all the time in litigation, do you not? You see people that stay in litigation for what- four years?

Wes: Years and years and years.

Clay: What kind of advice do you typically give to somebody who you see there’s no end in sight. It’s just going to go back and forth? What kind of advice would you give somebody like that?

Wes: It’s expensive, very, very expensive. Yes, you can either spend your time doing business or you can pay me to litigate for the next four years.

Clay: I would say this to you, you can either unfriend them on social media or keep responding. You can either block their phone calls or keep taking the calls. Z, have you ever blocked somebody’s call ever?

Robert: This is going to sound mean, but the few people that I’ve blocked don’t listen right now, but yes, I actually have.

Clay: [laughs] Okay. The thing is that one, Thrivers, you need to schedule your day, just like Wes said. You need to think about your day, “What are all the things I need to schedule today?”, but that second step is, you’ve got to prevent people from hijacking your day.

When we come back, Dr. Z is going to be sharing with us a story about how once, back in the day, how somebody tried to hijack his day and what did he do? what did you do master of time management? what did you do to prevent that hijacking from ruining your day, maybe your week? Just give us the specific moves you did because a lot of people are listening right now and they go, “Step one: I’m making my schedule, Step two: Aw, man! I’m getting my day hijacked” and then their day gets derailed. Next thing you know they’re living in a van down by the river.

Robert: I hate it when that happens, unless your down here by the Arkansas river, it’s like beachfront property down here.

Clay: It’s the perks of luxury if you’re living in a van by the river.

Robert: I can hardly wait to tell this story, it’s going to be so awesome.

Clay: Stay tuned, eat some Oklahoma Joe’s baked beans like a good business coach.


Clay: Thrive Time Show on your radio, you can be talking politics, but instead you’re talking about making your wallet grow. My name is Clay Clark, the SBA entrepreneur of the year sitting here to talk to you about how to start and grow a successful company. And inside the box that rocks, we have a man who has been fighting diligently against this horrible statistic. Forbes has given us this statistic, we’re not happy about it, the statistic is, “Eight out of 10 small business owners fail”

This man to my right, if you’re on facebook live to your left, he says, “I am not going to allow that statistic to be true in Tulsa, not in my town”. It is Dr. Robert Zoellner, Sir, how are you?

Robert: I’m great and I have a passion about that and being a business coach. That’s why we’re doing this show. We’re doing this show because we’re trying to stimulate the entrepreneurship spirit within you. Also, through mentoring because you learn by either mentors or mistakes–

Clay: Oh mistakes, I know why it’s so costly, I like mistakes.

Robert: [laughs] Well, you can make all the mistakes you want. We” actually tell you all the mistakes we’ve made and then if you want, you guys should go out there and make the same mistake yourself.

Clay: [laughs]

Robert: That is your choice, don’t get us wrong. We’re here, it’s a business talk show, every day Monday through Friday, 12:00 to 2:00, the Thrive Time Show. If you missed part of the show or you’re saying to yourself, “What did he just say?” you should go on and we have all the shows down there as a podcast. You’ll miss all the eye candy of the facebook live going on here now because we have Vanessa and Wes on here, two fine people.

Vanessa: We do what we can.

Clay: When I was in college, my wife caused a wandering eye, I’m trying to focus and I would just drift over and wander. The problem is, now that we have Wes in the booth and Wes Carter of Winters & King, this isn’t their slogan they’re known as a reputable law-firm, they represent some of the top ministers and evangelists in the country. They represent authors, they represent local Tulsa business owners. These guys are known for being a great law-firm, but I know him as, “Tulsa’s most beautiful man”. That’s what I know him as and it’s just so hard to try to even pay attention at all with this kind of beauty in the box.

Robert: We have to fight through it, we’ve got to struggle through it, we got to focus. This show is going to be a challenge, we’ve got a great a topic today and the topic today is, “Time Management”. That’s a thing I hear a lot from young entrepreneurs, young business owners, “I don’t have the time” and so today we’re going to help teach you how to get the time.

Clay: Here’s the deal, step number one is you have to schedule your to-do list. Whatever you’re going to do, make a call as Wes said, anything you’re going to do schedule that beast in your calendar, but then step number two, you’ve got to avoid hijack. There’s also different forms of hijacking. Before we went to the break, I explained to you that Z is going to share with us an epic story about how he was able to avoid hijacking. I’ve worked with our team to conjure up a great hijacking soundtrack to have ready that will play under this epic story, are you ready?

Robert: I love it when you go DJ mode.

Clay: Here we go.


Clay: Do tell.

Robert: There I was in my office, snug as a little bug-

Vanessa: [laughs]

Robert: -up on the second floor of my optometry clinic with my one way mirrored glass that looks out on the lobby and the optical area. I was sitting there going through my list of things to do, returning e-mails, doing texting, answering phone calls and lo and behold there came a knock on the door. I look up and a young man walks into my office, unannounced, no appointment-

Clay: I’m here to take all your time.

Robert: -just there. He says to me, “I’ve got something really important to talk to you about”, now this is a person that I know and so it’s not completely weird like a stranger off the street. I look up and I say, “Oh, Billy, what can I do?” and I’m sitting here, I’ve got that internal like, “Oh, no, I feel like I’m getting hijacked, Ugh”. Billy then plops down because that’s the way you stay where you’re not welcome as long as you can, by sitting quickly.

Clay: You want to lose something you have to find.

Vanessa: You were thinking of everything you have to do while he’s there.

Robert: Well, I’ll tell you so you can counteract it, you’ve got to know the move and what you do is you just remove all the chairs, “Don’t sit there Billy that chair’s broken, that one’s broken too”.

Clay: “Billy, watch out, there’s going to be three of that”.

Robert: [laughs] “There’s a trap door right there. Don’t take another step”.

Vanessa: [laughs]

Robert: No, so then he sits down and I started going, “‘Oh, gosh this is going to [unintelligible 00:18:18] on me’ -[clears throat] yes, what can I do for you?” and he goes, “Hey man, I’ve got a great business idea and I know you’re an entrepreneur man and I know you get business and I just want to run something by you and see what you think about it. It’s not like I need your money, but if you want to invest that would be cool, but I just know that you could probably just coach me up on this thing.”

Clay: Here comes the hijack.

Robert: I’m like, “Okay”, I’m going, “[clears throat] You know what Billy? that sounds like a great idea.” Here’s the counter ninja move, I slipped on my black ninja outfit-

Clay: Waaaa.

Robert: -slowly and carefully, I put my little black ninja mask on right when Billy is still talking. I tie it off at the back of my head and then I slowly pull out my samurai sword and I slowly spin back around in my chair. Now I’m ready for Billy and I look at Billy and I say, “Billy, you know that sounds like something great for us to talk about and I’m glad you came by, but here’s what we need before we talk about it. Do you have a business plan yet? do you have something like you’ve put on paper?”

Clay: Have you thought about this previous to now?

Dr. Robert: Yes. “Do you have something written down? because that would really help the conversation” and then Billy looks at me and goes, “Uh, no man that’s a great idea, yes”. “Well, I tell you what, why don’t you get something written down, let’s get a business plan written down. I’d love to go over it with you. That’s my passion, that’s my heart, Billy, I love to do that kind of stuff. Then why don’t you call my personal assistant, let’s keep you on the schedule and I’ll be more than happy to meet with you about it, okay Billy?” “Oh, okay man, yes, cool, but, it’s –” “Well, that’s a good plan, let’s stick with that plan, have a great day. I gotta run but–

Clay: You’re just real quick. You just wrap it up by asking him to do something that you know that he’s not going to do.

Robert: Yes, I’ll never see Billy again.

Clay: Now that frees up your time and you didn’t have a confrontation or a, “Hey, got out of my office.” It was a tactful move. I see you do this move a lot. I don’t know if this counts as an official ice box move but it seems like an ice box move.

Robert: It’s my move and it’s patented. It’s called the ice box. You know what? Anybody listening out there, you can use the ice box as much as you want. You know what? You’re welcome. Aren’t you going to thank me? Down the road, you’re going to tip and type in [email protected], tell Dr. Z, “Thank you.”

Clay: The ice box is great.

Robert: Preemptively, you’re welcome.

Vanessa: If you didn’t do that, you could have very easily been sucked into him wanting you to be involved doing various things that will never happen. He hasn’t got a business plan together more than likely, he’s not going to take the steps needed.

Robert: Right. To thank most coffee shop, I get it.

Vanessa: Your time would have been wasted.

Robert: Yes. That’s what you do. You take that idea and you go and you put it in the ice box, right? You just put it on ice, just cool it off and you say, “Okay, do this junk to the soup. Do this and then let’s get you on the schedule.” He might do it. You know what? Billy up there might.

Clay: If he does it then all the city qualifies to occupy your time but if he doesn’t he’s wasting your time.

Robert: Ding, ding, ding, ding. You just sit on your golden nugget when you need to touch on it.

Clay: All right. Here’s the deal Thrivers, when we come back, Wes Carter of Winters & King, a Tulsa’s number one law firm. These guys are awesome. He’s going to be getting into how to deal with the one hour call that became the three-hour call and Vanessa’s going to deal what we like to call the rescheduler. This is the person who wants to meet you for coffee and they’ve rescheduled three times. Now you’ve had the time of three coffees invested when you only want to meet him one time.

We’re going to deal with rescheduler and how to deal with the one hour, three call mega move. That’s a dirty move and he’s an attorney, you know what that is. They’re buying an hour of your time and next thing you know, you’re there for three hours. How does that happen? How do you deal with it?

Thrivers, I’m telling you what, right now, before the break you need to go and find the nearest Oklahoma Joe’s. You need to find it right now. You need to Google that beast. Go find it, have yourself some Oklahoma Joe’s baked beans and then come back here and join us. We come back, teach you time management on the Thrive Time Show.


All right, Thrive nation and business coach universe welcome back into the conversation. We’re broadcasting inside the box that rocks which is located on the left side of the Arkansas River, the left coast with the most. It’s also located within the inside the Palace of Prophet Z and inside the Temple of Boom. It is time to resume the Thrive Time Show. My name is Clay Clark. I’m joined here with Dr. Robert Zoellner, Mr. Wes Carter from Winters & King, Tulsa’s number one attorneys. Do you have an attorney? Do you have an attorney right now? If you don’t, give him a call because you want an attorney before you need one.

We’re joined here with my incredible wife of 15 years, Mrs. Vanessa Clark. We’re talking about time management and specifically how to avoid the hijackers. Before we went to the break, we were telling you how Wes is going to educate us because he’s an attorney. He has to deal with the situation where I’m going to call it, “It’s Johnny Three Hour.” Johnny-

Robert: Wait a second. Right before the break, you’ve told me to go to Oklahoma Joe’s. I’m there, I’m listening with my ear buds on my smartphone and I’m in line. I’m looking up at the menu just real quickly. My move is the burnt ends. I’m looking like I’m looking up at the menu right now. My move is the burnt ends, counter ordering there by the way.

Clay: Counter ordering.

Robert: Counter ordering.

Clay: Ordering from the counter.

Robert: Yes, ordering from the counter. Burnt ends and baked beans. You know what? You’re there, you’re in line, you’re welcome. You’re going to enjoy it.

Vanessa: That’s Clay’s move, too. He does the same– same meal.

Robert: It’s meat candy and the best baked beans in he world.

Clay: It’s what makes America great. I tell my wife, “Hey, let’s get in the car. Let’s take out– they’re pretty good, some baked beans.” Do I not do this?

Vanessa: All the time. You take me there, and he’d say, “Please, get something. [laughs] It is good. It is a good place.” but yes, you love this burnt ends and baked beans.

Robert: Yes, baby.

Clay: Unbelievable.

Robert: I just wonder. Now, they can order. Now we can go on.

Clay: Here’s the deal. You find yourself in a meeting that– we’ll call him Johnny Mc three hours. Johnny Mc three hours, every time he calls you, you know it’s a three-hour gap of your life. Just take it. A three-hour window, just take it. You book a one-hour meeting with him. You book a one-hour meeting to discuss a legal issue or it’s a personal issue. It doesn’t matter, either way, it’s if you book an hour but you know that his default move, everything, he’s the warm-up guy. It takes three hours for him to do anything. [laughs] That is the situation. How do you deal with it when you’re dealing with Johnny Mc three-hour appointment?


Wes: Johnny, it’s nice to see you again.

Clay: Hey, good to see you.

Robert: Yes. Thanks, man.

Wes: I just need to let you know that I have something. I have to get to at two o’clock.

Clay: Absolutely.

Wes: I know it’s one o’clock right now. We have a full hour but just let’s make sure we make use of our time because I’m going to have to cut us off at two o’clock.

Clay: Absolutely. I see you using the old book-end move where you tell when the meeting ends when you have to go somewhere. Do you know what I’m going to do? I’m going to open it up to a personal story. You know, Wes? Here’s a story, 60 minutes later I’m still going, still winding up there. How do you curtail when it gets to that long form story, Wes?

Wes: Maybe I’m just meeting Johnny so I don’t know that I need the book-end for him yet. You get to the end and you have a decision to make. Either stick it out with Johnny because I’m billing him by the hour.

Clay: Okay. [laughs]

Wes: Or if I do that, I’m going to delay all the rest of my appointments for the day or tell Johnny, “Look, I’m really sorry. I’d love to continue this conversation. I have another opening at 6:00 PM, if you’d like me to call you back we can go there.”

Vanessa: Glad to bill you then.

Wes: Right.

Robert: Wait a second. Isn’t your first appointment like three? Isn’t that the deal with attorneys? I mean I came in there and take-

Wes: 15 minutes. [crosstalk]

Clay: -much time as I could squirm away from you until you toss me out.

Wes: No, no. That’s why we have to put a 15 minutes on that because Dr. Z could be in there for three hours.


Robert: 15 minutes. I can’t even tell you a good story in 15 minutes.

Clay: This is how it happens. It’s like, “We have an appointment here. There’s someone who wants see you named Robert.” You’re like, “Is it Dr. Zoellner?” “No. It’s Robert.” “Come on, I know that it’s Dr. Zoellner.” [laughs] Then he just keeps changing his voices and different moves and he’s got all the different ways to get in there for those free 15 minute-

Vanessa: Disguises.

Clay: -consultation. I’m going to tell you a move that I like to do. In this move, I’d like to do with Johnny long form appointment is, I like to give him a time to meet that I know he won’t do. That’s my move I do all the time.

Robert: Like 3:00 in the morning or something ridiculous?

Clay: Yes because usually, my first meeting starts at 6:00 AM, typically. I know if somebody who’s a long former and I know they don’t like it. I was like, “Yes, let’s meet at 3:00 AM on Tuesday.” They’re like, “Oh, I can’t do it.” [laughs]

Robert: It’s probably open.

Clay: If it’s a multiple offender who continually does the move-

Robert: Okay, there you go.

Clay: -that’s a move.

Robert: Yes, but there you go and I try. What if — what you call him? Johnny Mc long meeting — what it was?

Vanessa: Three hours. [chuckles]

Robert: Yes, Mc three hours. What if he has something really life changing to tell you about? His new product he’s selling that’s going to change, revolutionize your life, could change your life.

Clay: I think what you have to do is you just have to get into it and realize when you start conversations that you only live once and you have to decide. Is this a conversation that I need to be involved in? You should be very aware of how you are spending your time.

Voice Over: Broadcasting live from the center of the universe. You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show Business Coach Show.

Clay: I have one more tip for how to get out of this long form meeting. Vanessa’s going to tell us how to deal with the reschedulers. You remember the movie Tommy Boy? You remember Tommy Boy?

Robert: I love that movie, Tommy.

Clay: It was a great — I think that movie’s–

Robert: Big man in a little coat.

Clay: You think about the deeper movies out there. There was a Dead Poets Society.

Robert: Yes, Robin Williams.

Clay: Then there’s Tommy Boy. Which one is deeper? It’s hard to make out because, the comedy if you watched it the fourth and fifth time, the comedy’s pretty rich. Have you really watched this before?

Robert: Yes.

Clay: The move that I think is the best move is if you know that you are going to be in a long form meeting, in Tommy Boy they’re trying to avoid the police and they realized that they don’t have a move. What they do is they pull over and they act like they’re being stung by bees. Here it is.

[movie clip playing]


Clay: That’s a move. That’s a move, you’re bee move.

Robert: I actually remember my friend back in the day he was speeding again. I don’t know how many tickets. He sees that a police officer lights him up woo woo woo woo and of course he pulls over. He’s just in absolute panic and we can’t get another ticket. I think they will take away his license, it was a bad deal. He’s just held in a panic, he’s a teenager. [laughs] He jumps on the car with the sense of urgency. Of course, the officer’s getting out in his car, too. They’re mean to each other and he’s screaming at the top of his lungs. He was, “My Mom’s just had a heart attack.” He’s like, “Oh my God. Get back to your car. Go, go, go.” The police officer that’s listening out there right now, I would like to apologize for my friend for doing that.

Clay: [laughs]

Robert: That was probably about 45, 30 years ago maybe. Yes, back 30 years ago.

Clay: We did not share that move. Now, Vanessa, I want to ask you. How do you deal with the reschedulers? Somebody who– they schedule an appointment with you and then they reschedule. How do you deal with that?

Vanessa: Often times, a lot of people will come to me about your schedule. You are booked out tight, you’re booked out solid. If you’ve agreed to meet at the time, that is great and you expect someone to be there at that time. They’ll come to me and say, “You know what? I just like to reschedule and instead I want to do Tuesday at 10:00.” I’m looking at them I say, “Great”, they want to do Tuesday at 10:00 but I know– you’re booked out. The most important thing you can do there is obviously letting people know, “This is the time I have for you” and then if they don’t show up to that time or they want to reschedule that time, you are not obligated to give them another time. You can, if it works for you and it makes you the beneficiary, but you don’t have to rearrange the whole schedule to get this one random time. Instead, I’d like to say, “Let me circle back with you and show you the times we can do, but that’s not going to be possible”.

Clay: You’re going with the old direct move.

Robert: You circle back. Woohoo.

Clay: Here’s the deal thrivers. If you’re listening right now and you’re going, “I am just struggling to manage my time.” You’re not alone. Many people struggle with this. In fact, Lee Cockerell, he was the former executive vice president of Walt Disney World Resorts. He said the number one excuse that people had at Disney World for not getting their job done was, “I don’t have enough time”.

When we come back, we’re going to go into his moves of how Lee Cockerell, the former head of Walt Disney World Resorts, how he would schedule and structure his day to get the stuff done that’s going to help grow the business and improve your quality of life. Stay tuned, Thrive Time Show.


Clay: All right, Thrive Nation. Welcome back to the Thrive Time Show broadcast from inside the box that rocks and beautiful jinx America, the epicenter of entrepreneurship. Did you know according to Forbes magazine, Tulsa has been consistently rated in the top five cities for entrepreneurs to start or grow a business. Did you know that?

Robert: I knew that and there’s something in the water, there’s something in the DNA here and that’s why I humbly submitted to qualify to do this show. Quite frankly, Clay, you really are probably the world’s best business coach and I say that with all sincerity. You’ve done a great job, you’ve grown tremendous businesses, you’ve sold some, you still have some, interest in some. You’ve been business coaching now for, how long? four, five, six? [crosstalk] How long have you been to–?

Clay: Well, what happened is — just seven when we received that entrepreneur of the year award, we spoke there at Rose State College? A lady there put her hand up and said, “Hey, I need help with my business, could you help me?” We had a mortgage company reach out and then it was an insurance company, pretty soon we had about five clients, I didn’t even know her name, for it. It was just like, “I’ll get you to the top of google”. Because we know nowadays how google works but I had to to make my business work. No one knows how to do cold calling, there’s no system for these things. It’s all like hocus pocus, smokey mirror’s thing. Really I would say 10 years.

Robert: Ten years. When you approached me two and a half now, I keep saying two but it’s coming up to two and a half now. When you approached me and you’ve sharp ten-ed me, you got on my schedule, re-scheduled it, I came and you talked to me and you cast the vision of being onto scale business coaching i.e. making videos of successful business people and then having it accessible like a Netflix if you will. I caught the Netflix of business coaching. We did that with Why is it Because we want you thrive in your business because we know 80% of them fail and we’re going to stamp that out.

Why 15 minutes? because each video is around 15 minutes plus or minus so you can binge watch all day or you can just do a few videos. You can watch them by the mentors we have on there, we’re talking about great guys and one we’re going to deep dive to here in just a second, Lee Cockerell who does time management teaching, we have David Robinson who’s an NBA hall of famer, who does academy sports and does a lot of businesses out in the San Antonio area and then we have other great people from around the country. Lavine– that–

Clay: Michael Levine, this guy–

Robert: Levine.

Clay: Yes. Michael Levine, he’s the leading PR consultant. He actually personally has worked with Michael Jackson’s family, with Michael Jackson himself, with Prince.

Robert: The purple one.

Clay: Yes, the Prince of Purple. Yes.

Robert: Pizza Hut, Nike, these are the kinds of mentors we have on there. We filmed them and we put them in categories and for 19 bucks a month you can get on there. When you came to me and you said listen, “I’ve figured out business coaching.” I said, “Yes, you have, you’ve done a great job, but now I’ve got to scale it because that’s every great business’ next level”. That’s what we’re going to teach how to do on this show. How to have a great idea, how to nurture it into a business and then how to take that business and take it from being a job to an actual business where you can scale it to where you have other people doing it. If you can’t get down time management, if you can’t do time management, it’s tough to do a business successfully.

Clay: Here’s the deal. Lee Cockerell, okay? Lee Lee Cockerell used to manage 40,000 people. If you wake up in the morning and you know you have to manage four people, imagine how that feels a little bit.

Robert: I’ve been there.

Clay: Today we’re doing some adjustments to the call center and so I have to get this stuff on the white board so everyone knows what’s going on, if not it’s chaos. The managing of 40,000- this would feel like this in my mind. This is how managing 40,000 people would feel. [music] You walk in with your briefcase. You get there in that parking lot about midnight, knowing that you control 40,000 people.

What you want to do if you’re managing 40,000 people is you want to go to bed before you wake up. That’s tip number one. No, but seriously Lee Cockerell he made a system where he was able to manage this place diligently and successfully for over a decade.

Here are his moves, Z, we’re going to unpack them, okay? We’ve got these five moves, here we go. Move number one, you must have one day timer and one to do list for your one life. Z, I want your take on it, I want your take on it Wes, I want your take on it Vanessa. Here we go. One day timer, one to do list for your one life. Why? Why one, why not having two day timers or two to do list. Why have to have one?

Robert: [laughs] If you have two then you’re doing two thing at the same time. That’s what’ll happen. Of course, your day timer and your to do list, your to do list is your running list of the things you do, the order that you need to get them done. Then your day timer is actually your what I would call a calendar, you want to have. Now, on Wes, earlier in the show too, he said, “You know, now it’s so easy to sync all of those together with the magic of electronics”.

Clay: Electronics?

Robert: And apps, and digital formation.

Clay: I swear I will never use a smart phone. They make people dumb today. When I was a young man, every young child didn’t have a smartphone and they were up there being in smart, Z, but now kids have a smart phone, they’re dumb, I call them dumb phones. What do you think about that huh, huh?[unintelligible 00:36:48]

Robert: Well, they can if not used properly and if you let them take too much of your life they do have that kind of effect. “What is this?”, “I don’t know just google it”, “All right, what–“, “I don’t know”.

Clay: We never broke up on InstaFace. You would look a woman in the eye and say, “It’s over, it’s over”.

Robert: You’ve got to have one master list to do list, you have to have that. Then you have to have one calendar, one day timer, however, you want to call it, but that has all your to-do list for that day on there. It’s a no-brainer but you’d be surprised how many people get scattered in that. They need to have someone that said, “Oh, no. You have lunch today over here” and you’re like, “No, no I had lunch with–“

Clay: I want to ask Vanessa this, because we have the Suburban and then there’s this five kids all of which are going to different things.

Vanessa: Yes, how they’re on schedules?

Clay: Our nine-year-old has got his 48 inch riding horse mower but he’s trying to —

Vanessa: He’s booked me for lawn and he says I need to drive him too. Correct.

Clay: Right, you’ve got that going and we have ballet lessons, one of our kids is doing really well in the gymnastics game, our twins are learning gymnastics. There’s a lot of stuff going, music lessons last night with Martin, a lot is going on, how do you organize it all? What do you do? Do you just mentally picture it all or do you put it down somewhere? How do you do it?

Vanessa: Well, what works well for me is I have some time blocks. I have time blocks of where I know I need to be at the office and focus and that’s where my focus is. Then I have a time block where I’m with the kids, or I’m taking them to their lessons. Somewhere I know, “Okay, you know what, I am at the house and the kids are at the house but I also know I have some free time to work on some stuff independently while we’re all there”, so I have blocks of time.

Then also, I do have things on the list that I know absolutely must get done but I’m able to delegate those things out and I just check on them later. They’re still on the list, they’re still important but they’re not my highest and best use.

Clay: Wes, Wes Carter of Winters & King, the Tulsa’s number one attorneys, by the way.

The question I ask for you today is, do you have an attorney? Because I tell you what, whenever you have a legal problem that’s too late, you want to have an attorney before that time, so call Winters & King. Learn more about this beautiful man, that great company, they do a great job. Wes, I want to ask you this question.

VoiceOver: Broadcasting live from the center of the universe. You’re listening to the Thrive Time Show.

Clay: How do you manage your to-do list. You’ve got to have a lot of legal documents you’re editing, and phone calls you have to have and court appearances. How do you do it?

Wes: I use two different things. I have a to-do list and a calendar, they work together. As you mentioned earlier, I have a good app, the app helps me to keep a great to-do list.

Clay: Are you using a smartphone or is it a hand written app?

Wes: One of the things that help me a lot was a younger me had a home to-do list, a grocery shopping list, a work to-do-list, and combining all those into just one master Wesley awesome list was a big help.

Clay: Here’s the thing that’s making me crazy right now. This is the thing that’s making me crazy as a business coach. I see a lot of young entrepreneurs who have a great idea and what they do is they go — I even remember, I don’t own this business, they’re coming to me with their business and they say, “Listen, I need help growing my business.” and I go, “Okay, cool”. I give them a list of things they need to get done and then each week they come back, “Oh, I forgot”.

Vanessa: It makes you so mad.

Clay: It makes me crazy mad. Then I go, I say, “Listen, I want to help you be successful, but I’m not going to continue to coach you if you’re to going to drop by and get your stuff done. It’s making me crazy, Okay?” Because by the way, if you make commitment to yourself and you honor it, it creates this thing called confidence. If you don’t do it, it creates dissonance, which causes you feeling bad about yourself. The point is, do what you say you’re going to do.

Then, they’ll say, “What time management software do you recommend?” and I’ll say, “First, for you, I want yellow pad note. You write that beast down. Then we’ll move to something else” and they go, “Well, I’ll do it Basecamp, but I can’t get it to sync it with my Gmail and my Yahoo”. They created a technology barrier, Z, that prevents them from doing basic things. It’s like, “I can’t find their password bro” and they’re, “Login, bro. It doesn’t sync”. There’s a place for technology, but also you don’t want to create that barrier.

Robert: Hey, you know what? The old KISS rule applies. Keep It Simple Somebody. I’ll just say somebody. I don’t want to say ‘Stupid’ because that would be mean for someone to say that word. Yes, get out a big, cheap pad. I like number two pencil because it’s just fun to write with. Go old school if you need to.

Clay: Get a look at those ovals.

Robert: I love it. Is this number two pen really sharpened? Just go old school. I like Jerseys because you’ve got Jerseys on. Where’s your pad? Where’s your to-do list?

Clay: Mine is out there on the bar.

Robert: On the bar. She’s on the bar. You have it down here with a little highlight colors.

Vanessa: It’s a super list.

Robert: It’s a super list you get done. You know what? Just go old-school on that. You don’t have to have all these 87 different apps that ding and chime and–

Vanessa: Can we share what the list is? everyone at home can use this. it is an Excel document. It is an Excel spreadsheet.

Clay: Yes, I use just the Google Drive, the Google App there, the Google Drive. All it does is I can access information everywhere and every morning I print it out. If I have anything I need to do, I write it on my list.

Now, when we come back, what we’re going to do is we’re going to get into more of Lee Cockerell’s super moves for time management. How do he do it as the head of Walt Disney Worlds Resorts? We can tell you when we come back. Boom.


It’s the Thrive Time Show on your radio and away, and away, and away we go. My name is Clay Clark, former SBA Entrepreneur of the Year, sits here by Scripts Radio to help teach you how to start and grow a successful business. One of the things that’s a great joy for me, is the people we get to have on the show, the Oklahomies that we get to feature on the show, the Tulsa success stories, these regional and national success stories, people that have turned their dreams into reality and who are in the process of turning their dreams into reality, and just getting the chance to spend time with some great people, to actually schedule a time, to spend time with great people, to be here intentionally with you on the air every day from 12:00 to 2:00. The guy at my right, this guy has been a mentor in my life. He’s a guy who started off as an optometrist. Then he went from the optometry business to what was the next business there, Z?

Robert: A sleep center.

Clay: Sleep center.

Robert: Then an auto auction and then a Couple of D Med companies.

Clay: Durable-

Robert: Medical equipment companies. Then a horse ranch, Rockin’ Z Ranch.

Clay: And then an online school, and then a radio show. It all just makes sense. If you put it on–

Robert: Radio Show. That’s this show. Yes, yes.

Clay: Yes. Here’s the deal though. In order you to build all these things and to say yes to all these things, you’ve had to give up some stuff. You’ve had to say no to some things. Lee Cockerell says– this is Lee Cockrell’s step number two from his book Time Management Magic. This is how the man who used to run Walt Disney World Resorts would tell you how to manage your time. He says, “You must assign the right priorities of urgent, vital or important.” What he’s saying is you have to classify what has to get done versus some things that would be nice to get done.

For me today, Meals on Wheels, there’s a guy named Mr. Calvin who’s a formal client of mine. He said, “Hey, I want you to run a call center for me during the month of February.” I had to get that done and I had to get that whiteboard built. No matter what’s going to happen, I had to get the white board done for the call center management and I have to get that deal done because I said I would. No matter what today, that has to happen but I had to give up some things. I want to ask you on your daily basis, what are some things that you’ve had to give up that maybe other people go, “Oh, man, I’m spending a lot of time over here” and you’re spending none of your time doing that because you had to give it up?

Robert: Can I go old-school?

Clay: Go old school, man.

Robert: I remember back in the day I was going to Union High School here in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I was 13 years old, actually, 14 and I didn’t go to any home football games.

Clay: Really?

Robert: Yes, I wanted to, but I didn’t go. You know why?

Clay: Why?

Robert: Because I had a job at JOB, a job. I learned early on that in order to be successful you have to delay gratifications. I said, “You know what?–” — I work in a restaurant and the weekends are always the busy times. You make the most tips. I was a bus boy and so I had a choice– “I could- not work and make money, or I could go to a high school football game and watch the team play”. The point is, I’m trying to make is that, a lot of times people think their choices are in time management. It’s really what you’re not going to do, but it’s also what you’re going to do in that time.

If you say to yourself, “Well, I’m not going to go to the football game, but I’m going to sit and watch Netflix all night”, that’s not really being as productive as you can be. Delay your gratification, you should be working on your business when you’re not doing the thing that would be perceived as fun. Because you know what? Eventually, when you build up your business, eventually when you get your– you have time freedom and money freedom, then you know what?

Vanessa: Then you’re at the Super Bowl.

Robert: Then you can go and watch any football game you want to watch or whenever you want to watch.

Clay: Now, I want to ask Vanessa this here because you as a mom with five kids and working with me on the businesses, there’s things that you give up that maybe other moms who are listening, they feel like they have to be this super mom and this mom-prenuer. They’re trying to run a business and they feel there’s a big– I don’t know what society– I’m not a woman. I don’t know, but there’s a big list of women who put a lot of pressure on themselves to do all these things that society says. You have to do this and you have to do this to keep up with Mrs. Jones. What kind of things did you have to give up to say yes to what you do now?

Vanessa: Well, first off, we’re in a great situation, we’re really blessed. I have you as a team mate. I’m not having to, as a mom, run an entire business by myself. Instead, we have family business and you primarily run all of it. I see myself as your right hand. I’m there to help whatever you need.

Clay: You’re my life coach.

Vanessa: What I have given up I guess and just if you have five kids anyways, you have to look in and I would say, “Hey, Vana, you have these three lessons that you take. Which two do you like the most? because at some point it is too much to take five kids in three different directions each. I think just going down and saying, “What is your highest and best for each child, what are their giftings? For myself, how can I best assist my husband?” you.

I used to come in the office and buy all the supplies. This is ridiculous. I don’t have time to do it. Okay, I going to have someone else do this. I used to, by hand, do all the taxes. Now I said you know what? I’m going to grab this lady to assist me. You get all these things for me and I’ll oversee it. Really, seeing what parts you can delegate out and give to other people is huge for me. As a mom to know, you don’t have to do it all but you have to take care of your husband, your kids and if you have a job, assisting there.

Clay: Now, Thrivers, if you’re listening right now and you have a pen nearby or maybe you’re in your car, or maybe you’re at the office, pull over for a sec, get a pen and I want you to make a list of the things that you have to give up, a list of things you have to say, “Hey, this is the tradeoff I have to make to get where I want to go”. While I’m giving you some time to write here, here’s a song that comes to my mind here.


Clay: Marvin Gaye, Got to give it up.

Robert: Got to give it up.

Clay: Yes, He used to go at parties. He used to do that. He used to go out to parties, but he said no. I got to get stuff done. He used to stand around. No. he just don’t want to go to parties and stand around, he’s getting his stuff done. That’s Marvin Gaye right there. He gave up going to parties and standing around. Look at the sacrifice right there, Z.

Vanessa: Now he’s getting down.


Robert: Now he’s getting down. I love that. You’re right. You have to prioritize and his step number two, Lee Cockerell’s step number two is that- one thing that I see is that so many people are doing something that’s on their list, but it’s not the most urgent thing on their list, it’s not the thing they need to get done the most right there. There is something in your brain that has to click on and say what is the most import thing? If I’m not doing that right now, why I’m not doing that? Then try to shift your focus and your attention on there because once you check that off for the day, once you check that off for the week, once you check that off for the month, guess what? Then you can get to step two.

If you’re wasting time on all those other trivial stuff and then this glaring thing at the top of your list is flashing on a red neon sign urgent, urgent, urgent, you got to get on that.

Vanessa: Z, that’s going to require to– you have got to actually think about what you’re doing and not just mindlessly going through each item of the list and checking it out.

Robert: I am a robot. I am mindless.

Vanessa: Because then you realize, “Wait. I could have only needed to do half of these things and this don’t even matter and I can give them to someone else”. You need to think about what you’re doing, what your purpose is, what you’re trying to accomplish?

Wes: I think part of that is planning time to prioritize.

Z and Clay: Oh.

Robert: Listen to the Attorney.

Vanessa: [laughs]

Clay: Okay. We call this, at Thrive15 we call this meta time or above time from the Greek word meaning above or beyond. The idea is you want to schedule time in your day to– every day to organize your day, and to think about where you are versus where you want to be and plan out the life you want instead of just living the life that’s given to you. It requires you to have a daily discipline to do that, and I want to ask you, Wes, when do you plan out your time or time planner guru, when do you plan it out?

Wes: It’s usually a little bit of both. It’s the night right when I’m done in the evening, I’ll look at the next day and try to get a game plan together. Then, first thing in the morning, I’ll re-prioritize as necessary because sometimes I wake up and I already have 15 emails that are everybody has an emergency. Like Dr. Z mentioned, it’s knowing what you have to get done, because if I don’t start on those early, it’s going to be 4:00 o’clock when I get to those so I’ve been wasting my time all day, and then I’m missing dinner with my family, putting the kids to bed because I was prioritizing the wrong things all day long.

Clay: There is a book by, some pronounce it as An Ran or Ayn Rand. This book is called Anthem. She’s also the person who put together the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

Clay: One of the thoughts that she had that blew my mind when I read the Anthem for the first time was that she discovers that people who are successful have found a way to prioritize their life over everything else, and then when they do that, they have the time freedom needed to actually help more people. It’s just weird thing. As an example, today, I’m just giving you example Thrivers if you’re going, “I want to come in the office and see what you’re doing.”

Okay, well here’s the deal, I have to get the cover made for my new book. I did these books, but I want to get them all done. I’ve written all the manuscripts but I want to get them all done right away. It’s a book called Dear Job, a Look Under the Hoodie of Bill Belichick. The idea is it’s a fun book for management principles. It looks really good. I want to get that done so that way many Thrivers that know that I constantly reference to Patriots and their awesomeness and their excellence-

Vanessa: I have to say you must send one to Belichick and one to– to the whole team, in fact. The whole team needs a book sent to them.

Clay: I want to. The thing is, I am obsessed with the Patriots. I had to design it, I sketched it out, Vanessa knows I went back and forth with working titles. That’s not the activity I’m going to do during my work day. I have to prioritize. Hey, this really matters to me and my family really matters to me. I have to figure out when am I going to do that. I know a lot of people who you want to become an entrepreneur, but for some reason, you can only prioritize getting something done for your clients.

For your clients, so use an attorney, use an optometrist Z, use an incredible wife. There’s always people putting things on your to-do list and you do them because you want to be excellent and you want to be honest and you want to be accurate, you want to do a good job.

Vanessa: So good.

Clay: Are you putting things on your list for yourself that are for you? Because if not, you’re just doing what everybody else wants you to do Z, that you’re going to end up just doing everyone else’s to-do list.

Robert: I tell you it’s a beautiful thing when you see a person that can manage their life and be what I call a powerful person. Powerful person. What does that mean? That means someone that is doing the things that are on their list, their priorities and taking care of their stuff. They’re not a rudderless boat in the sense that the wind is blowing and just whatever way the wind is blowing, that’s how my boat is going to go.

No, they’ve got a rudder down in the water and they are steering their boats. Sometimes I’ve got to go up went. Sometimes we’re going against conventionality. Sometimes they’re saying no to people. Sometimes they’re saying no to certain situations and what they’re doing is sometimes delaying gratification and they are fighting through time waste obstacles, like a ninja.

Clay: Now, here’s the quote she has from the book Anthem which I encourage everybody to read. It’s so good. It’s from the book Anthem. She says, “My happiness is not the means to any end. It is the end. It is its own goal. It is its own purpose.” Now, I read this, this was so freeing for me because here’s an example. When you start a business, you have to work so hard.

When Wes first became an attorney, you’re out there doing whatever you can do to draw more clients, but now you have so many more clients reaching out to you than what you can possibly handle over at Winters and King. You have to decide, is this a good client? Is that a good client? Is this a good fit? For me as a consultant guy before we built I was coaching all these individual business owners.

One thing I realize is that if I don’t like them, that is justification enough to not work with them. I remember the freeing thought of walking into a meeting with a client and I said, “Hey, I’ve told you I think nine times to start the meeting on time.” I can’t remember how many times, but I can’t go into the next meeting. I can’t stay late, and they’re like, “But we are paying you.”

I’m like, “Let me review this. I don’t need you as a client. My focus today is my happiness, and so henceforth you’re not a client. And I’m going to refund you and then you’re gone.” They’re like, “But wait, I need you to stop. We need you– we need the website. We need the print pages. We need the photos. We need the PR.” I’m like, “Okay, then I need you to be happy in my presence. At least pretend to like your spouse and not argue in my meetings.”

They’re like, “Why?” Because either husband or wife do, “What?” I go, “Seriously, do not bicker in my office because I don’t want the negative waves more early.” They’re like, “Okay.” And the whole thing changed when I let them know that, “Hey, this is a priority for me.” This is a true story. These things happened. If you’re listening right now, I want you to make a list, what are the things that just irritate the heck out of you that you can control?

The things you can control. Don’t make a list about things you can’t control, but things you can control. When we come back, we’re going to dive deeper into Lee Cockerell’s Time Management super moves. If you’re looking for an attorney, go to Winters and King. Check out their website. Hire Wes Carter.

All right Thrive Nation. Welcome back into this Thrive Time Show conversation with your business coach. With much elation and jubilation, Dr. Z and I are here to help you increase your compensation by helping you dominate that whole time management game. Time management can be so hard. It can be so hard because if you have any level of ambition at all, you have these things you want to do. I’ll call them proactive things.

Then you have these things that you have to do called reactive things. You have things you have to do, and you have things you want to do, and if you have any ambition at all, a consequence of that is you have to find a way when the whole world is pushing, the winds are against you. How do you get ahead? How do you navigate that? It can be so frustrating when you just want to get something done, but you have all these things that are given to you.

Robert: It’s so important. This show is all about encouraging you to start and to grow a business, all right? All the aspects would come with that. You got to understand that the majority of people out there, the majority of entrepreneurs that start a business, they have another job. They may have two jobs. They may have three jobs in fact because why? Because they’re not making any money-

Clay: We have an auctioneer from Bernie Sanders here. An auctioneer from Bernie Sanders in our program here. What is going on? People are working more than 36 hours? Are you kidding me? People today should not work more than 36 hours. It’s unethical. See you later. I’m heading back to Limbo show.

Vanessa: I have a quick question.

Robert: Sure.

Vanessa: For Z and for Clay and for Wes. I love this idea of the schedule. Everything makes sense, but what– when you’re in that cycle where you are being bombarded, you feel completely overwhelmed, you’re at the bottom, how does someone who’s there right now in our audience, how do they get out of that? They’re thinking I can’t even catch up to where I need to be, how do I start making a proactive schedule?

Robert: You just give up.


You just give it up.

Clay: You just do it.

Robert: You got to get cardboard– here is the thing, cardboard makes a fine home.

Clay: Yes, absolutely.

Robert: Those who’s full overpasses and most big cities are for that matter, and you just-

Clay: It’s kind of romantic almost when you think about it. Think about it, Wes, you, me, a piece of cardboard? Markers?

Robert: Let’s pick a nice overpass.

Clay: There’s a good one over there at 169. I’m thinking there-

Robert: That’s fine. You know I’m thinking of the same one over there.

Clay: No, I44 where they meet right there-

Robert: Maybe we can build like a two storey cardboard, like dude pad.

Clay: They have that clover leaf-

Robert: We could just-

Vanessa: That’s just too much.

Clay: We can put a tiny home in the middle of that Clover Leaf area and I’m sure the property guys– Wes, could we get access and is that an eminent domain, you can’t technically put a tiny house in the middle of a clover on 169.

Vanessa: I love the Clover areas.

Wes: Maybe we can get you an easement or something.

Robert: There you go. You got to think outside the box. No, what you do Vanessa, it’s a great question, and just like I was saying a little bit earlier, sometimes you have multiple jobs and you start your business. Start small and you start to grow it. It can be overwhelming, time can get away from you, and let’s say you’re behind, you’re underneath. You take a deep breath, and we’re going to take it one step at a time.

That’s where you make your priorities. That’s where you say, “Okay. All right, I’ve got more than I can deal with right now, what’s the most important thing?” Just focus on that. What’s the next most important thing? And then just focus on that. Get your master to-do list, that was in our earlier part of the program. If you missed it, listen to the show again.

What you do is you boss, and say bosses make big-

Clay: Obstacle.

Robert: Seem-

Clay: So small.

Robert: So small. That’s what you do, it’s an overwhelming task Vanessa. If you look at the whole thing, you’ll say, “Give me some cardboard. Give me some cardboard.”

Vanessa: I can’t do and I give up. Oh my gosh.

Robert: Yes, I want to have Wes give me an imminent domain. I’m getting in the Clover Lane, I was going to build a cardboard house and-

Vanessa: That’s how, for people that are in that situation, they just need to realize, “You know I don’t need to do all these today, I’m doing like what Dr. Z said. I’m going to prioritize and just do these top ones.”

Robert: Like the old Chinese proverb about eating an elephant. I don’t know if it’s Chinese or not. I just say that.

Clay: No, the Chinese definitely wrote a lot about elephants.

Robert: Of course they did. When you have an elephant laying in front of you and you got to eat it, it is overwhelming, you can’t, it’s impossible unless you take it down in small little bites.

Clay: Now, Wes, I want to get your take on this, Vanessa was asking, you’re totally overwhelmed right now, you’re listening, What do you do, man?

Wes: I think as you mentioned earlier, some of the times you have to cut some of that loose. I saw all the news article yesterday about Trump repealing, and I think you got to have to do that to do list and start repealing some things and taking some of it off your plate that’s not a priority in a delegated or decide that those aren’t good things for you to be spending your time on.

Clay: Here’s the deal Thrivers. I have a story I’m going to share right now, this is a- it’s a back-handed Shawn Copeland compliment, one of our generous sponsors here, he is the sponsor for Regent Bank, he’s the head of Regent Bank, he’s the CEO, the president of Regent Bank, and Regent Bank is the sponsor of this show.

Robert: Oh yes, they are a great bank for business bank and so, if you’s out there wanting to start a business, I’m listen to Thrive time show and this is the year I’m going to do it, now, wait, I got to have a banking partner, Regent is a great banking partner. I’m going to cue up some storytime music for you.

Clay: Okay.

Robert: Because I love it when you get in story mode.

Clay: Okay. Here it is, hold on.


So the year was, let’s go 19- 2003, Vanessa and I live in the Silverwood neighborhood, the Silverwood edition.

Vanessa: Oh yes.

Clay: We were the young people, she said, “what does your dad do for a living?” and I am like, “I own this house, this is my house, my dad technically has a job but this is my house.” Anyway, we live in there, we got the DJ empire growing, was growing. We’re getting boxes delivered of equipment all the time.

Vanessa: True.

Clay: And I meet this beautiful man who at the time worked for Citizen Security Bank at the Bixby Chamber of Commerce. He walks up to me, he’s 10 years older than me, he is what I want to be. He is the head of that bank and he is the head of the Bixby Chamber of Commerce, and he says the magic words, he says, “would you be interested in sponsoring the Bixby Blues and Barbecue Festival?”

Robert: Oh, wow.

Clay: And I said, I would be honored, there was like honor there, and so I said yes. Next thing you know-

Vanessa: I just want to clarify, so I think it was a huge event but we weren’t necessarily getting paid.

Clay: It was the first event.

Vanessa: The honor to be sponsoring it so we weren’t getting paid, but we were sponsoring. Keep going.

Clay: There was so much honor. But, this was the first year they had done it and so, I remember talking to him and go, okay, I can do this. When I look at the order, the list of the stuff we need to get and I have to get a hundred channel mixer and I have to get a Cerwin Verga subwoofer and all these speakers.

Vanessa: Because you were a DJ for like events and weddings, all that, this was a big band, they want a flow on live music right?

Clay: Exactly. I ended up hiring a guy named Brannon, who ran the sound, I ended up- the guys ended up living at the park literally for three days. They were there figuratively, they did not leave the area for three days. The Washington Park there in Bixby over there by the river, they stayed there for three days and it was raining and such.

Vanessa: And you have to buy tons of equipment-

Clay: Buy 20 thousand dollars of gears just for this event right?

Vanessa: Yes, and we wouldn’t be able to do an event like this because it was really out of our niche and then I think because it was out of our niche, we didn’t do- I mean, what was Shawn’s reaction when we were done?

Clay: Shawn was really grateful but I was really hateful because I was working there and what happened is the trade out consisted of media coverage

Vanessa: Oh yes, and we got them for free too.

Clay: Well, Fox showed up and they pan the cameras, we’re reporting live here in Fox 23 to Bixby Blues and Barbecue Festival and people are having a great time here folks, and then the camera pans by and I’m like Bob, that’s it, we’ve been waiting all day for that, we have a big signs. And after the event, I remember thinking to myself, oh my gosh and I said, I’m never going to lose this relationship with Shawn Copeland because I went to the bottom of Hades and back for this man and we’ve stayed friends this entire time.

That’s how I met Shawn Copeland was doing that event and the apex of this story is Shawn, he’s a great guy, he stays in touch with his friends and he honors relationships and that’s how we met, the bad news was, I devoted an enormous amount of time to a completely unprofitable activity that I would never do again unless I was completely out of my mind and unable to- I don’t know under what circumstances, the entire space-time continuum would have to change.

Vanessa: One thing, I think it rained too and the equipment all got wet.

Clay: It rained the entire time. It was like a monsoon. Z, when we come back, we’re going to help people get out of the doom loop where you find yourself volunteering for the Bixby Blues and Barbecue Festival without compensation for three days straight in the rain. Stay tuned.


Welcome back to the Planet’s best business show. If you’re wanting to start to grow a successful business, you have found your business coach and your show because we are in the know of what you need to do to start or grow a successful business. We’d like to have a lot of fun on the thrive time show, but we also like to teach you very practical steps and tips that we’ve learned from tycoons, from our own experience, from millionaires, from gurus, from everyday success stories and one in particular that we’re talking about today is Lee Cockerell.

He’s one of our partners, he’s the former executive vice president of Walt Disney World Resorts. He, by the way, once managed 40 thousand people- It’s even hard to say, it’s hard to say that,


40 thousand, I mean it’s so many people.

Robert: That’s a big- that’s a lot of zeroes there for you Clay, that’s a lot.

Clay: It’s big, managing Wrigley Field, It’ will be like go into Wrigley Field for the cub’s play, and looking around and going, all you people, you’re with me, let’s go that way. I mean, just think about that.

Vanessa: Hopefull, they’re not drunk.

Robert: Yes. The bleachers you get beer, right over here peanuts, there would [unintelligible 01:05:58] you’re done.

Clay: You four guys, put on a shirt then you come to work. Here is the thing, we’re talking about his moves, there’s five moves as we paraphrase some of the moves in his book called Time Management Magic, in this next move is you must fight procrastination. Procrastination is a bad thing because what happens is people who are procrastinating, it kills their self-confidence, it kills their momentum, it kills their joy, it’s not good. To procrastinate is when you need to do something but you’re not doing it.

Robert: You know Clay, you know what I am going to do, I think I’m going to fight procrastination tomorrow, tomorrow I’m going to fight it.

Clay: Tomorrow is a better day, right now I’m very busy.

Robert: Tomorrow is much better day to fight procrastination, you know what, I’m busy today. I’m going to fight it tomorrow.

Clay: We have the patriot’s like I’m going to be in the super bowl here. Instead, I’ll memorize every single player statistics before I do anything related to-

Robert: I’m going to roll up my sleeves tomorrow and I’m going to fight some procrastination.

Clay: I got to get on Facebook and update my-

Vanessa: I was hoping Z would fight him in his ninja app and again go back to the-

Robert: I might do that. I’m going to put that in tomorrow too.

Clay: Here are moves- these are modern procrastination moves. I’m going to bring them up and want Wes to tackle this first one here. Wes, [unintelligible 01:07:07] curveball. This is Wes Carter, the attorney of choice for most of Tulsa, Great American. He is Tulsa’s number one and most humble lawyer, Wes Carter, Winters and King. Here’s modern procrastination move number one.

One, is you go, well, Facebook, there’s a lot of updates I can make, I can update my photo, I can update my galleries, well I could do, I could go on to Linkedin, I could update my status, my profile, my boom boom, my resume. Look, my twitter has not updated recently so I’m spinning like seven hours a day on my social media updating my things that no one looks at anyway. Boom, how do I deal with this?

Wes: I think you have to schedule a time for your marketing, it works both ways as an attorney or anyone who gets paid by the hour. If you’re not careful, you’re behind your desk all day, doing things that are making you money then you’re not thinking about your business big picture, and it works the opposite way. If you spend all your time worrying about marketing your business, you’re not going to get anything done. I think it’s finding that balance that works for your business that- I spend some time thinking about growing and doing a good job, big picture things but I don’t neglect the day to day activities of what people are actually paying me to do.

Vanessa: Did you have to have like aha moment to get there when you realize I’m doing all of this one thing and not even paying attention to the other part or you just had it from the beginning?

Wes: No, I had- the Winters and King told me when I first started the firm about a decade ago, be careful, you’ll get stuck behind your desk all day doing work because there’s so much work that needs to get done that you won’t take any time to think about improving, growing, being better. I think that’s one of the best pieces of advice I got.

Vanessa: She was like a mentor?


Wes: He is, yes, both of our firm and partners have been wonderful.

Clay: What’s your website, my friend? Where can people learn more about your incredible law firm?

Wes: or we have one for churches and ministries specifically which is

Clay: For all the listeners out there, who are in the lobby of Regent Bank right now, you’ve brought your own radio device into Regent Bank so you can listen while eating your Oklahoma joes, your baked beans, it’s hard to pay attention sometimes when you’re eating the baked beans, you get so mesmerized when you begin to put your baked beans in your mouth, it’s hard to listen sometimes.

Announcer: Broadcasting live from the center of the universe, you are listening to the thrive time show.

Clay: It was hard to listen, I got to get distracted a little bit, my friend. What was that website one more time?

Wes: and

Clay: Now, here is this next move, this is- I’m giving you- teaching some moves here, what we should do to manage our time more efficiently? But I’m giving you an absolute soft ball and a chance to completely rip me and I’m okay with it. I’m ready, I’m eyes wide open. Here we go. This is Lee’s fourth move, you must be mentally present at all times including when driving, so we must be mentally present at all times you’re in your office, there’s a meeting going on but you’re on your laptop, working on something else.

The whole reason they have a meeting, by the way, is for everyone to get together and who needs to be there to decide on something. You don’t have a meeting unless the people who are there, need to be there. If they don’t need to be there, you don’t have a meeting, but if you’re having a meeting, people need to be there. You’re on your laptop, you’re mentally distracted, or you’re me, you’re in a car, you’re listening to John Legend and you’re mentally somewhere else.

Vanessa: I know when you’re most mentally present. You are making your to-do list, and I can walk in the room, be talking to you, this happened two days ago? By the time I get about a foot away from him, he yells and screams and jumps like he didn’t know I was there because you’re so focused and mentally present on this list you’re making.

Robert: What, did you tase him or something? He yells and screams like a-

[cross talk]

Clay: I put my hood on while I’m doing my to-do list. I have my hood on, and I’ll do this, and I’ll get my music going, and I’m just typing, I’m writing a book or typing [beatbox sounds] I’m just working at it and all of a sudden I’m like, “ahh” I literally put on my blinders so I don’t get distracted.

Vanessa: Now, I come in since that past two days, I’ve come in like this.

Clay: Scary or nay things. You see somebody coming into the main cave at 3:00 AM.

Robert: Just absolutely, scary person.

Clay: Okay Z, Let me have-

Robert: Big and intimidating-

Clay: Let me have it about being mentally present in a vehicle.

Robert: You are quite possibly the worst driver I’ve ever been with that I know for sure and you could be the worst driver ever in the history of driving. That’s because you are

everywhere else but driving that car. I tell you what, people talk a lot about generations and your different characteristics of generations. My dad’s generation once they called it “the greatest generation”, World War II veterans, and what an awesome generation that was and the sacrifices they made. We don’t even begin to understand that.

Every generation give them a name, they have tendencies, but that doesn’t stereotype every single one of them. The millennials, the younger kids of today, being present even when you’re talking to them is pretty-

Clay: What bro?

Robert: -makes me a little crazy. I don’t know that I can have a conversation with them. With their phone, trying to talk to you the whole time, you’re like, “Put that thing down.”

Clay: Bro, seriously when we were-

Robert: Hide it. Destroy it. Here, let me throw it in the Arkansas river. Don’t worry, it won’t get wet. It’s beach fun out there. You’ll be okay, you can retrieve it.

Clay: I have a true millennial story that happened in our office two years ago, so funny.

Robert: Okay.

Clay: One guy, showing a guy a tattoo, it’s going to be an arrow, with a circle on it. He’s showing it to the other guy in our office, on Photoshop going, “Bro, this is going to be my

new tat.” There’s templates you can buy for tattoos.

Robert: Okay. That’s good to know.

Clay: The other guy’s not even paying– I’m serious, this is true story. The other guy’s not paying attention going, “Oh, cool bro. You should see what I’m doing, bro.” The other guys on his smartphone going, “Cool bro.” They’re doing this back and forth. They get to work. One day, I don’t know what happened, they have their sleeves rolled up, and they literally have the same tattoos.


Clay: The two dudes — It’s like if you come to work and you’re wearing exactly matching outfits, it always feels kind of weird?

Robert: Day after day.

Clay: Either one of them were paying attention while emailing each other back and forth tattoo ideas. They literally went in, had tattoos done, they were the same. What are the chances of that? It’s like one in a million, it’s ridiculous.

Robert: Here’s the trick. Here’s the super move. Here’s the only way you can ignore your phone.

Clay: Okay.

Robert: When you’re in a meeting or you’re hanging out with your buds, or your family, there’s one super move you have to do.

Clay: What is it?

Robert: When we get back-

Vanessa: I’m on edge.

Robert: I’m going to share it with you.

Clay: I’m going to stick around inside the box that rocks and down some Oklahoma joes. We’ll be right back.


Clay: All right, Thrive Nation. Welcome back into the conversation. We’re talking about time management. How to get more stuff done. I’m going to tell you this, Henry Ford had a quote back in the day and he was talking about how it’s hard to build a reputation based upon what you’re going to do. See that? It’s hard to build a reputation based upon what you’re going to do.

Robert: No, it’s not.

Clay: Really?

Robert: You get the reputation by procrastinator. Because you’re always going to do it.

Clay: The thing about doing something and becoming a doer is people are attracted to people who get stuff done.

Robert: Get her done.

Clay: I want to make sure that as we’re teaching you these moves, that we don’t get too far away from our F6s. The whole point of being efficient at managing your time is so

that you can accomplish your F6 goals. I’m going to read those off to you, okay? One, you have your faith, goals, your family, your friendships, your fitness-

Robert: Yes.

Clay: Your finances, and this just in from our home office, number six is?

Robert: Fun.

Clay: Got to have a scheduled time to have some fun.

Robert: All work and no play-

Clay: Makes-

Robert: Clay a boring dude.

Clay: Okay, now here’s the deal Thrivers, time management, we’re going through Lee Cockrell’s moves. This is the guy who used to be the Executive Vice President of Walt Disney World Resorts, and a member of the mentor team and a business coach. He talks about this move how you must be mentally present at all times, we just covered that, but now you have to get started. Eventually, you have to get started, Z.

Robert: I let them bear with the hanger.

Clay: I’m so sorry.

Robert: We got to have a cliff-hanger like light that flashes.

Clay: What happens is I get so worked up. I’m down in Oklahoma joes in between and I don’t know if he’s putting an addictive chemical in there, but I believe he is. It’s causing my brain to just misfire. I need to talk to him about — what is the addictive chemical, it’s completely organic and tastes so good, those Oklahoma Joes baked beans. Back to the story, wow.

Vanessa: Set it up again, for those who’ve missed, who are just tuning in now.

Robert: I was setting emphasis is that the super move on how to not let your phones, i.e smartphone interfere with your business meeting, interfere with your friendship meeting, “Hey, let’s have coffee.” “Okay.” and then you’re on your phone the whole time. That’s not quality time. Or interfere with your family time. There’s only one super move you can do.

Clay: Come on now, give it to us.

Robert: And that is, you take your smartphone i.e your phone and you turn it off.

Clay: What?

Robert: I know. It’s crazy. Is that-

Vanessa: That scares people.

Robert: Did I just say that? Did I say that out loud? Is that ethical?

Clay: Can I die? Did my heart stop? I thought my heart is–


Vanessa: [unintelligible 00:06:31] pacemaker?

Robert: It has a pace making ability, my phone that keeps my blood flowing. Turn off your phone. Because I’ll tell you this, you put it on silent, but still, buzzes right? You’re sitting there and you’re having coffee with one of your best friends. You haven’t seen them in a while and you’re catching up with life. You’re talking, you’re face to face, you’re having quality time as we call it.

One of the five love languages. You’re having quality time and you’re just having a great time, all of a sudden, you have your phone tucked beneath your leg and it buzzes, [buzzing sound] and then you’re like, “I wonder who that is. It could be an emergency. It probably isn’t an emergency, but I want t– I’ll just peek.” The next thing you know, you pull that phone out, we’ve all done it, I watched you at coffee shops, don’t act like you don’t. I’m seeing you do the slide out move and you’re looking at it, right?

It’s like my staff, there’s no phones allowed on the floor at the optometry clinic, right? They’re supposed to be up in the lockers, hey, you get a 15-minute break. Every so often, you can go up there and check. If it’s an emergency, they could call the landline and say it’s an emergency, get Billy on the phone. There’s no excuse for emergencies right? Sure enough, the other day, I’m walking through and I see some in their scrubs, pull out their smartphone and do the move, to pull it out.

Clay: Do the move.

Robert: They’re looking down.

Clay: It’s a super move.

Robert: They’re looking down at that smartphone, right?

Clay: No one can tell that you’re doing it.

Robert: Yes. No one’s seen them but I’m looking right at them, and they slip it back into their scrubs and they look up like nothing happened. I’m staring right at them, they look back over, they see me and I’m like, “Really?” One, you know you’re not supposed to have it out here, two, you’re going to do it in front of me? Can you at least wait until I walk by before you take a peek?

Clay: I have a slight rant I want to go on here. This is fuelled by Naval Ravikant. He’s the guy who, if you get a chance to look up Angel List. It’s a company that connects venture capitalists to potential start-ups. Naval’s the guy who started Angel List. He’s a guy who’s very successful, he’s a multi-millionaire but he decided to peace out of the game. He said, “Hey listen, I’ve made a bunch of money, and I’m peacing out.” He built Angel List, he basically has very sustainable income and he just doesn’t want to participate in the game anymore.

Robert: Sure.

Clay: One thing he said during an interview with Tim Ferriss, which I thought was interesting, is Tim was talking to him about facebook and how relevant he wants to be. He invested in facebook. Naval, and Peter Thiel, these guys invested in facebook. He explained this, he said, “Let me tell you how we designed it from the inside. Facebook is a product, and you are the product. Every time you update your facebook, and you input more information to it, the product gets bigger and bigger so we want you to stay active and more involved and more updates.

Clay: He says, “We want you to put all your photos in there, we want you to compete with the Joneses, we did all of that. We designed all of this stuff to cause you to engage all the time, so you feel like you’re trying to compete in the game you can never win. We used gaming mechanics to build this.” Which is why I never go on it.

Robert: I don’t either.

Clay: That’s what he was saying. Naval was saying this and Tim Ferriss is like, “What? You mean you are part of the team?” and he said, “Yes, I know.” It was created like a video game where people want to go to the next level. I don’t play video games. I can’t relate in this, really but it’s like they want to keep playing. They built facebook to be that way. All I’m saying is if you listening right now, those aren’t vacations, man, those are designs to sell products. You got to be careful.

Vanessa, I want to ask you, because you’re mom, and you’re women, and you obviously Facebook. With our age, Facebook is something we went to college with and it became a thing there. What are your rules for Facebook? How have you tried to tame yourself from Facebook? Where do people get Facebook wrong? What you’ve learned about this?

Vanessa: I do have a Facebook. Our kids, none of them have a Facebook, but I have a Facebook. I know you use yours strictly for marketing. I don’t always do posting. I think my first – do not political, but I said I didn’t like something, this the other day. Man-

Clay: What did you say you didn’t like by the way?

Vanessa: I did not think it was right for Barron Trump to be bullied the way he is. I am a mom. I have a kid who is-

Clay: Who is Barron Trump? If you’re listening and so, “I know Trump but who’s Barron?”

Vanessa: It’s Donald Trump’s son. It just, as a mom it touched my heart so I just put that out, and people are on you. Oh man. “Did you say something about Sasha, Malia when they were bullied?” In the end, it came around, and the girl ends up saying to me, “Hey, I appreciate you being on here.” But I decide, “Okay, this is why I don’t post anything political.” Usually, I just share-

Robert: Trolls coming out.

Vanessa: Yes. Usually, I just share pictures for my family. My mom can see my dad. He lives states away – he can see. I think it’s a great way to share. But you’ve got to know what your boundaries are. Of course, I had the epic story I shared the other day on Clay, which he is too embraced to talk about.

Clay: I’m not talking about that. Now, Wes, I want to ask you. What are your digital boundaries, my friend? How do you get started and avoid that smartphone killing you, taking you time, distracting you all time? You have to write deep legal documents, man. You can’t be screwing up on that. How do put on the blinders and focus?

Wes: Well, during the work hours, I have to keep my phone available just for text messages because some of my clients have been lucky enough to get my cell phone number. They contact me there [unintelligible 01:21:51] my work.

Clay: I made a mistake by giving out your cell phone number for referrals for a long time. I’m so sorry about to be the cause of that.

Wes: Hopefully, my beautiful wife not listening right now. At home with the struggle, because people call you, contact you. Facebook is not so much a problem. I can’t really scroll down more than three posts without my blood boiling about something and I just turn it off. But the text messages and the emails, I have to make a conscious effort to shut those down.

Vanessa: Clay’s got a move for that. You want to share the move.

Clay: What? My move?

Man: Share your super move.

Clay: My super move on my Facebook?

Vanessa: No. not your Facebook. Just he’s saying that the phones used to be more – I mean you had at a certain point use that-

Clay: I just turn it off. I mean, I hate to say this. If you’re listening you’re going to be mad, but this is what I do. Basically on Friday at five, I turn my phone off, and then I’ll pick it up Monday again at 6:00 AM. I literally, this week, I looked at it, and I am not kidding. I learn this move from Peter Teal the guy who funded Facebook, I read his book, and he was talking about this. He calls it “Time management.” He calls it “Digital delay.”

Some people emails all the time, like every two minutes. If you respond, they’ll just keep doing this all the time. What you do is you don’t respond from Friday until Monday. Usually, they’ve solved their own problem when you see it. They’re like, “Oh, never mind. I got it figure it out.” This happens all weekend without me knowing. My brain would literally explode if I engaged in that.

Now, Z, for people who want to go deeper into time management, deeper into planning out their schedule, deeper into becoming successful, they have three things that they can do right now?

Robert: I’m going to say they have four.

Clay: Four?

Robert: I’m going to fight you on this. I’m going to say four.

Clay: Thing number one. They’ve got a and explore the world’s best online business school and business coaching platform. It’s just $19 a month.

Robert: You’ll spend more at Starbucks. Having the meeting with your friend, when you’re checking your phone out, you spend more than19 bucks–


Clay: What’s with number two? What with number two?

Robert: Well, we have in-person workshops with a business coach. They’re usually monthly, but you can go on, and see when the next is coming up. We just had one last week. Big, big success. If you Google Thrive15 Conference, you’ll find all about it.

Clay: Yes. There are tons of reviews for people who were there. I think 128 video reviews. Really good stuff. Now the third thing you could do is you could say, “Listen, I want one-on-one business coaching. I need that one-on-one mentorship.” Again, you got a, and just fill out the – schedule a free consultation with a coach. We’ll get you taken care of. Z, what’s the fourth one?

Robert: The fourth one is so obvious.

Clay: What is? I don’t know.

Robert: Look around you.

Clay: Oh.

Robert: Look around you. The Thrive Time Show.

Clay: Oh.

Robert: Talk Radio 1170, Monday through Friday, 12 to 2. You can catch the podcast on

Clay: Yes. Go up there, get those podcast. Sharing is caring. Share with somebody. It’s always a three, two, one – Boom.

[01:24:40] [END OF AUDIO]


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