Joshua Becker | Founder & Editor of Becoming Minimalist, Speaker, Contributing Writer for Forbes, Washington Post, & CBS Evening News Shares Why He Believes You Can Maximize Your Happiness By Getting Into Minimalism

Audio Transcription

Transcribed with Cockatoo

Hello, everyone.

I’m Chris Munch with Thrive15 .

com.

And I’m Josh Merrill with Thrive15 .

com as well.

You know, there’s something very important that we’d like to talk to you about. And that’s corporate sponsorship. We want you to know that we here at Thrive15 will never sell out to the man. And that’s as refreshing as this ice cold Coca -Cola classic.

That’s good Coke. We will never stoop down to that level because I know we can be better.

Better ingredients, better pizza.

Papa John’s.

We’re better than that. And quite frankly, we’re above it. I don’t always wear deodorant, but when I do, I wear Old Spice. And that’s as refreshing as an ice -cold Coca -Cola classic. Even when our competitors say, just do it, we will never bow to the whims of corporate sponsorship. Wow, Josh, those clothes look really comfortable.

Well, that’s because they are, Chris.

Well, there you have it. That’s our message. And our promise to you to fly high above the trappings of corporate sponsorship.

Thank you for joining us in the Outback Steakhouse Studio.

No rules.

Just ride. Some shows don’t need a celebrity narrator to introduce the show, but this show does. In a world filled with endless opportunities, Why would two men who have built 13 multi -million dollar businesses altruistically invest five hours per day to teach you the best practice business systems and moves that you can use? Because they believe in you, and they have a lot of time on their hands. They started from the bottom, now they’re here. It’s The Thrive Time Show, starring the former U .

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It’s the CNC up on your radio. And now freak. So on today’s show, for anybody who’s ever met me before, you know I’m probably a maximalist. So I probably have, there’s probably nobody out there that has more decor, more accoutrements, more tchotchkes, more history, more archive, whatever, than myself. And so on today’s show, you might be saying, what are you doing interviewing the founder and editor of Becoming Minimalist? Well, I’m a curious man. I’m a curious man. I’m always interested in what makes people work more.

how people can work more effectively, more efficiently. And I do believe the Steve Jobs quote, he once said that, Steve Jobs, he’s saying that complexity fails. He says complexity fails, but simplicity scales. That’s Steve Jobs talking to you. Simplicity scales, complexity fails. Also, William Shakespeare once said that brevity is the soul of wit.

So I’m excited to talk about this minimalist concept with the man with the plan and the guest of choice, Joshua Becker. Welcome onto the Thrived Time Show. How are you, sir?

Wonderful. And if I have a host to convert, then I look forward to it.

All right. So let’s talk about it real quick here. First off, you are the founder and the editor of Becoming Minimalist. Let’s talk about that for a second. Where is that? What is that?

What is the Becoming Minimalist?

Sure.

Becoming Minimalist is a website. It’s a decision that I made 15 years ago. So becomingminimalist . com is the home base for all that I do online. I’ve been full -time working for myself for the last 15 years running that website and helping people own less and live more.

OK, I’m going to pull up the website here real quick so people can look at it. I’m pulling it up here. I got it on the screen. I think this is the right website here. I feel like I’m there. I’m dragging it over so we get the full screen action.

I’m on the website becomingminimalist . com.

For anybody who hasn’t been to this website before, what kinds of things can people discover or learn at becomingminimalist . com? Yeah, that is a great question. It is from its founding. It inspires people to own less and live more. And so there’s a lot of conversation about minimalism in the terms of physical possessions that we intentionally own.

But what I discovered pretty early on is that minimalism, simplicity applies to a lot more than just our physical possessions. It’s essentially about living an intentional life focused on the things that matter most. And so the website is about much more than just decluttering.

It’s also about how we spend our time and how we spend our money and our focus, where we find rest, and where we do our most productive work focused on those things that bring us the longest lasting joy, meaning, and happiness. Now, you have been featured throughout your career on the Washington Post, in Washington Post, Forbes, CBS Evening News. You’ve traveled all across the country speaking You’ve also spoken internationally. What resonates with audiences? Like when you’re speaking to an audience and people in the audience go, oh yeah, oh yeah, or aha, or I agree, or I affirm that.

What about your message or when you’re speaking, what part of your message really resonates with folks most? Sure. The part that resonates the most is, have me tell a story if we have time for it. The part that resonates the most is, minimalism makes sense when people realize that their possessions aren’t just not making them happy. but their possessions are actually taking them away from the very thing that does bring them happiness in life. And so my first book, The More of Less, Finding the Life You Want Under Everything You Own, explains minimalism to the masses.

And the point that it proves, makes, that I think we all resonate with, is that our lives were created, our lives were designed for something bigger and greater than accumulating physical possessions. And once we remove that pursuit from our lives, we can chase and pursue things that actually bring more meaning and fulfillment.

I think that’s the light bulb moment when minimalism makes sense. What inspired you or when were you inspired to become a minimalist? Was there a moment where you hit your head on the toilet seat?

Were you hitting a sunset or what was that moment? How about cleaning out the garage? How about something much less, I don’t know if that’s less sexy than hitting my head on a toilet seat or not, but I was cleaning out the garage. This was 15 years ago. My son was five. My daughter was two.

My son wanted me to come play baseball in the backyard, throw the wiffle ball to him, learning how to hit. I was working on the garage. I’m working on this garage clearance. out. Ends up taking hours. I don’t know if you’ve had any of these projects around the home, but I’m working hours.

My son’s in the backyard asking me to come play with him. I strike up a conversation with my neighbor. I start complaining a little bit about how much work had gone into my efforts. She could see my son alone in the backyard. And she introduced me to minimalism. She said, You know, that’s why my daughter is into minimalism.

She keeps telling me I don’t need to own all this stuff. And I looked across the yard to my driveway full of dirty, dusty things I’d spent all morning pulling out of the garage. Out of the corner of my eye, I see my five year old son swinging alone on the swing set in the backyard where he’d been all morning long. And I suddenly realized that all my possessions weren’t making me happy. which we would all say, right, I’m not looking for happiness in my possessions. But what I discovered is not only were they not making me happy, all the things I owned were actually taking me away from the very thing that did bring me happiness in life.

And that I think is the lightbulb moment when minimalism makes sense. It’s not just that our things don’t make us happy. It’s that all the things we’ve accumulated are actually keeping us from happiness in life. Now I am I doing? How am I doing? I convince you at all?

We getting there?

I don’t know.

I don’t know. Maybe a tough egg. I don’t care.

Not that Satan needs an advocate, but I kind of sometimes on this show have sort of a devil’s advocate perspective of things.

You got it. This idea, and I want to make sure I’m understanding it, it seems like you’re advocating or you’re saying that you could maximize your happiness or satisfaction in life by minimizing the amount of materialistic goods that you have. I think that’s what you’re saying.

Am I misunderstanding what you’re saying? You’ve got it. You’ve got it. Not just maximize happiness, but maximize potential and opportunity. Essentially minimalism.

is about promoting what I most value by getting rid of anything that distracts me from it. Now there’s a scene in the movie The Jerk, which my father made me watch all the time, The Jerk by Steve Martin, where Steve Martin, he starts off as this ridiculously dumb person who goes on to have meteoric fame, and then he quickly spins it all, and he ends up becoming bankrupt and homeless again. And as he’s leaving his mansion because he’s impossibly in debt, he says, all I need is this lamp. and this ping pong paddle, and that’s it, and this ashtray, and this robe, and he begins trying to take his materialistic things with him on the way out. That’s kind of what I think about here.

Do you find that people want to cling on to their things as they transition into becoming a minimalist, or what happens when someone tries to embrace this lifestyle? Yeah, so I think one of the most important things for people to understand is that Minimalism is always going to look different from one person to another. So minimalism isn’t. at least in my definition, the way I practice it. The goal of minimalism isn’t I just want to own the fewest amount of things as I possibly can. Minimalism is about defining for myself what is most important, what is most worthy of my life’s energy and resources, and devoting as much of myself as I possibly can to that.

Understanding, of course, that there are going to be certain tools that I need to accomplish that purpose. So what do I need to keep in order to be the best version of myself that I can be? And what are all the other things that the world, society, has just told me would make my life better, but in actuality are just becoming a burden to my life instead? And so certainly it’s a difficult process. It’s a it’s a process that requires people to define their values, figure out what they want to accomplish with their life.

Help it helpful understanding of why am I attached to my things? Why do I constantly want more things?

And for that, I mean, that’s hard work like that’s that’s looking into unhealthy motivations and parts of our heart that we don’t typically like to look at. Now, this is something I’m trying to understand it, unpack it. It seems as though you’re indicating that consumerism, and I’m using words that I’m, consumerism may distract us from our true potential. And am I getting that right?

Or could you kind of unpack that for us? Yep, you got it perfect. That is exactly what I am trying to say. That the world comes along and hijacks our passions, that every advertisement we’ve ever seen tries to convince us that our life will be better if we buy whatever product they’re trying to sell. But in reality, we, especially as Americans, especially in our world today, we live with more possessions than we’ve ever had at any point in human history. The New York Times recently called the modern American generation the most tired, stressed, overwhelmed generation of all time.

And I think that is because, surely that is because, we are just trying to manage as many things as we possibly can.

And it is indeed getting in the way of our potential and getting in the way of our purpose and passions. Are you a married guy? Are you a family guy? Do you have a family? Are you married?

Walk us through a little bit of kind of your life when you’re not, in your non -professional life, if that’s even a thing.

Yeah, sure.

Absolutely. Yep. Married for 26 years to my lovely wife, Kimberly. My son, Salem, is 23. Just graduated Arizona State with a degree in finance.

And my daughter, Alexa, is a sophomore at Grand Canyon State. studying communications. Okay. Okay. Cause usually what you do, if you disagree with someone, what you do is you, you attack the personal, then you get, you know, get off the thing. Uh, so you seem like you have a, you have solid family.

You got a great wife, got great kids. Okay. Well, let’s continue. So mental health, uh, mental health, there’s usually, um, people that are troubled. Cause they can’t find their phone, their wallet, their keys, their phone wallet keys there. Uh, I’m looking for my phone, my wallet, my keys, my remote, my, my scissors, my tape, my.

I got this on my desk, got to have this, got a tape measure, got the tape, got the marker. And then where’s my phone? Where’s my wallet? And a lot of times we just get cluttered mentally with all the things, all the accoutrements.

Do you find with your research that it helps clear up the minds of people that have a lot going on in their minds? Mental health, is it helpful to have less things? Yeah, for sure. Tons of studies that connect clutter to stress. Absolutely. Some of the even like the deeper thinking, I just had a conversation with a gentleman yesterday, worked at Apple, and he said that he learned minimalism at Apple, and it helps his ADHD, that there’s just fewer things around him, fewer distractions.

It helps him to be able to focus. I think that minimalism is really about bringing a sense of control. It’s like we can control the things that we can control. I think that that helps our mental health for sure, creates space creates margin, cuts down on the amount of time that we need to use managing stuff, which allows us to just spend time in rest and resetting. And one of the main things that I try to help people understand is that I once heard a great quote that if you want to improve yourself as a person, do things that improve your self -esteem.

So if you’re feeling depressed, if you want to bring about better feelings of yourself, then spend your time doing things that help your self -esteem.

And I think really that that’s what minimalism does in a very wonderful way that a lot of other habits don’t. Minimalism is about removing those things that we pursue in life that don’t matter so that we can spend more of our life doing those things that do, that do bring real lasting self -esteem into our life. Okay. So let’s say that, uh, when you decided to become a minimalist, what were you doing before you were minimalizing? Uh, what were you doing? Like, were you, were you buying a lot of things?

Were you a guy that was, uh, a BMG CD subscriber, your auto shipping BMG?

Were you a guy going to bed, bath and beyond and buying towels? What were you doing before you embrace this new flow? Weren’t we all BMG subscribers back in the day? Absolutely I was, as a matter of fact. I can picture the CD rack that I had in my life. The best way to describe my life before minimalism is very squarely in the middle of the middle class.

That’s where I grew up my entire life. Never missing meals, never eating at the fanciest restaurants in town. The part that I think resonates the most with people is that my wife and I had three pay increases over the first 10 years of our marriage. Every single time, it seemed like we should have been able to get ahead financially. But for some reason, we never were. It’s just that it’s just like more money came in, the more money went out.

And so 67 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Over 70 percent of Americans say that their finances are a significant source of income. in their lives. And what I discovered was that I was just spending money. on things I didn’t need, buying a bigger house, putting more stuff inside of it.

And when we started minimizing, we took 60%, 70 % of our things and got rid of them, things that we never missed, things that we never needed. I couldn’t believe how much money and time had been wasted on buying things that I didn’t need.

How did it turn your financial life around? I know you mentioned this as far as reducing expenses, but if you had to give maybe to explain it a different way, how did it impact your financial life when you decided to become a minimalist? Yeah, well, certainly if you’re owning less than you’re buying less, if you’re owning less than you’re maintaining and managing less. And so it’s pretty quick connection between owning less and having more money in our lives for different people. That means different things at different times. If you are struggling to get out of debt right now, minimalism is the key to getting out of debt.

If you are living paycheck to paycheck, Minimalism is your key to getting ahead of your paychecks and getting ahead financially. If you hate your job and want to start your own business, if you hate your job and want to take a different job, but it pays less, but would be more meaningful. Minimalism is the key to make that possible.

If you want to be a more generous person, which I think 99 .9 % of us do. Minimalism is the pathway to do that. Folks, I’m telling you, I’m taking notes here. You might not agree. You might agree. We’re taking notes.

We’re taking notes. It’s always better to take notes than to not take notes. OK, so next question here is when you have a simpler life, has it affected your and your life as if you found that you feel more satisfied?

You personally, do you feel more satisfied now that you have less accoutrements, less things? Are you feeling more satisfied? Yeah, absolutely. I think you could picture it. If you were wasting less time and money and energy on things that weren’t bringing you happiness, and you could spend more time and energy and focus on things that do bring you happiness, then the connection is pretty clear that you’re going to feel better about yourself. You’re going to be more satisfied with yourself, not just every single day, but at the end of your life as well.

I like to think of it a little bit like a happiness investment portfolio.

Like, where am I going to put my money that’s going to bring happiness or meaning into my life? Why would I put a most of my money into something that has a very low happiness return on the investment compared to something that offers a longer lasting return that matters longer and more. Okay. So, um, you know, you have a simpler life now. Um, and I, I think that’s good for somebody watching this. You’re you’re wanting, but someone says, how, How do I go from here to there?

Someone watching this show right now, if they want to embrace this, do you have tools? Do you have books? Do you have websites? I mean, do you have the website?

Do you have like a place someone could go if they go, OK, I want to go here to download the thing, or I want to buy the book? Or if someone says, I want to learn more about this, I’m not necessarily committed to doing it, but I want to learn about the thing, where can people go to do that? Yeah, sure. I have my first two books would be the most helpful. The More of Less, Finding the Life You Want, is a book the why of minimalism and makes the case for owning less. My second book is called The Minimalist Home, a room by room guide to a decluttered refocused life.

And that is the how to how to how to apply the principles of minimalism. Certainly the website has all free content. My YouTube channel has tons of free content.

I have a book coming out in twenty twenty six. Uncluttered Faith, which is a faith -based, Christian -based discussion of Jesus’s teachings on money and possessions and how we can apply that to our lives as well.

Do you find there’s any correlation between living a simpler life and generosity? Is there any correlation between those two things? Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I just want to make sure doesn’t get lost in this conversation, because I know who’s listening and I know some of the thoughts that might be going up against here, is that minimalism isn’t about living a smaller life. Some people might use minimalism to stop doing work. But for me, minimalism is about doing better work.

It’s about doing more work. It’s about doing more effective work for those things that matter more. And I actually think minimalism has made me more, more ambitious in my life because I’m not earning money for the sake of buying more things or going on a nicer vacation. But I’m earning more money because number one, work is love. Work is selfless. Work is the way I bring my best into the world and help other people.

But the work that I get compensated for, then the money that comes in, I’m able to use to solve problems that I’m passionate about. We started a nonprofit called The Hope Effect, actually our first book deal.

We took the money from the first two book deals and we started a nonprofit called The Hope Effect, which is changing the way the world cares for orphans.

And I got to tell you, I became more excited to market that book, to get it out into the world, when I knew that the income from it was going to help orphaned children get into families That became far more motivational to me than just buying a new car. couch. I’m going to pull up your books here on the screen here. I’m going to Amazon. It’s a new website.

Perhaps you’ve heard of it, folks.

Amazon . com. We go there. We’ve got Uncluttered Faith, Own Less, Love More. We’ve got the More of Less. You’ve got Simplify.

These are the books here. And again, for anybody out there, this is where you go.

I want to ask you here, somebody’s watching this show right now, and they’re going, Joshua Becker. where does he get off trying to tell me that i should simplify my life so what’s the most common pushback that you get i mean you’ve spoken to massive audiences obviously you’ve received a lot of praise but i’m sure you’ve talked to somebody who takes you out of your mind, someone who doesn’t like what you’re saying, what are the common areas of pushback that you’ve received over the years? Yeah, sure. I can give you two. The first person who I ever, whoever came up to me afterwards and said, I completely disagree with everything you said, was an entrepreneur. And, and he tried to make the case, well, he was making the case that his Passion for a bigger house, a nicer car, is what motivates him to work really hard on his business.

And I can understand how that can become a motivation for somebody. What I try to explain to him is that there are actually pursuits in life that can provide us with more ambition and more motivation than just buying a boat or a car or a house. And so owning less intentionally isn’t about losing my motivation for my work or for my income. It’s actually about using my income and using my work for more lasting purposes. So that’s the first one. The second one, just as you mentioned, as you were setting up the question, I get sometimes from people like, why can’t you just let people live their life?

Why do you need to tell people how to live? Which is very true. because I think everybody, you know, tries to offer advice about how to how to live their best life. But I always just counter it by saying, hey, if you go to a really great restaurant, you tell your friends. If you watch a really good movie, read a really good book, you tell your friends, because this is a loving thing to do, that we would try to introduce them to ways of life that would benefit their life and that they would enjoy. So my books, my website, anytime I post on social media, this interview, my conversation about you can live a bigger life by owning less stuff isn’t about me, trying to tell you how to live.

It’s about saying, hey, have you ever considered this? This is a loving thing that I’m trying to invite you to consider. Now, you’ve been on some great interviews over the years, some great podcasts, big shows that you’ve lowered your standards to be here with me today. I’m going to ask you this, because sometimes you get off a show and you say, man, that host, if he would have just asked me this, then I could have said this. Or I wish he would have said this.

So I want to ask you right now, while we still have you, what is a question that you believe that I should be asking you on today’s show? Or maybe I should have asked you. I should have asked me, that is a good question. I, I had a couple things that I wanted to get asked, certainly about ambition and passion and work. And I feel like I worked them into my answers along the way so I just. I knew going in that the biggest pushback here would be, yeah, but I’m an entrepreneur and I need to be motivated by money and I need to work hard and I want to work hard.

Right. I assume we’re all high achievers and we’re all driven and passionate.

And I just want people to know that minimalism isn’t about laying out a beach for the rest of your life. Minimalism is about embracing work, but it’s about embracing the right kind of work for the right reasons.

ultimately finding more satisfaction, well -being, joy, making a greater impact in the world with the one life that we have to live. How would you describe your faith? Like what’s your worldview in terms of your faith? I was a pastor for 15 years, so my faith drives everything that I think about in my entire worldview. I mean, Protestant is the theology that I subscribe to. I found that, in many ways, minimalism aligned really well with my Christian faith, because minimalism is essentially about owning less of the world.

so that I can have more of God in my life.

Minimalism for me is centered very much in the understanding that there is more to life than the physical things that we can see. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, like self -control, these are all worthy fruits that we should be pursuing in our life, more worthy pursuits than physical possessions or what this world is offering.

And a lot of ways, it’s not until we let go of the world that we can take hold of more of God and more of faith in our life.

You know, John, in the Bible, reads John chapter 12, verse 25, says, he that loveth his life shall lose it, and he that hateth his life in the world shall keep it unto life eternal.

So something to think about there, folks, something to think about. So final three questions I have for you, rapid fire. Here we go. One, hair product. What is the hair product that you’re using to maintain that incredible hair?

I’ve never seen, I mean, I’ve interviewed some great people. You and Colton Dixon have probably the best hair I’ve ever seen. What hair product do you recommend? Nice. I appreciate the comparison. I get it at Target.

Garnier fruit teas or something.

Well, number one, I use whatever shampoo my wife has in the shower, and then I get my hair gel at Target. Green package with a yellow top, whatever it is.

Two, if they’re watching this show today and you said, hey, go do this. Someone says, I’m into it, I like it, I’m feeling it, I want to learn more. What’s the main call to action for everybody watching today’s show? Great question. Go declutter your car.

Go take everything out of your car that doesn’t need to be there. And then the next time you sit down in your car, notice how good it feels to not have a bunch of stuff around you that you don’t need, how calming it is. And then just consider how that would feel in the rest of my life, in my living room, bedroom, office, what it would mean if I didn’t have clutter and I could focus more on things that were important to me. Final question. You have a megaphone. The whole world’s paying attention.

You have a microphone in a stadium. You’ve got a billboard the world has to see. Whatever that message is, what’s the message you want to convey to all of our listeners today who are eagerly watching and taking notes?

Well, my most important message would be that we live in a broken world and Jesus is the only answer for each of us as individuals and for society. But beyond that, more relevant to this conversation, the message I would want people to know is that your life is too valuable to waste chasing and accumulating physical possessions. So find something more important to pursue with your money and time and energy, and you will never regret it. Joshua Becker, thank you so much for joining us on today’s show. I appreciate you coming in to the world of the maximalist to talk about the world of the minimalist. Hopefully you feel like my questions have been fair with you today.

Thank you so much for your time and energy.

And I really do appreciate you.

And I look forward to maybe having you on the show again.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

I loved it.

Bye bye.

But Clay Clark, man, he is one character. It’s a good word for character. Yeah, that is it. Good, driven, smart. And I’ve never met a guy who was so hyper all the time. He’s doing so much good.

And then I met his mother and she just says she just lets him be Clay Clark.

I mean, so he’s endorsed by his mother.

And he’s doing magnificent work. So it was a great meeting you out there and all the people that he surrounds himself with.

His client Clark starts his days at five o ‘clock in the morning. Oh, it’s incredible. Yeah. He’s, he’s like, he’s, he’s a machine. He’s a machine, but his, you know, I could, I have problems with my company starting at nine o ‘clock.

Yes.

Hundreds of people showing up at 5 .00 AM in Tulsa, Oklahoma, man.

He’s a leader of a leader.

He’s fantastic. Yeah, man.

No, he is. You could be anywhere doing a lot of different things, but you chose to be here. Clay Clark is here somewhere. Where’s my buddy Clay? Clay’s the greatest.

I met his goats today.

I met his dogs.

I met his chickens. I saw his compound. He’s like the greatest guy. I ran from his goats, his chickens, his dogs. So this guy’s like the greatest marketer you’ve ever seen, right? His entire life, Clay Clark, his entire life is marketing.

Transcribed with Cockatoo